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EvilSyKOSkitzo
Ikea Sweden
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Posted - 2007.10.30 11:12:00 -
[1]
Hey peoples,
Having a few mates that PVP a lot. I decided to get into invention. Bought up some ship and module blueprints. Have been popping out copies like theres no tomorrow and I have been training skills.
At the moment I have Minmatar Encryption level 4, Mechanical Engineering level 4, Minmatar Starship Engineering level 4. I have run over 10 jobs now. Ranging from Cruisers to Destroyers. I have used decryptors with each run. Either the operation handbook or advanced theories and I have had no successes.
I have also tried inventing guns. Under the impression that modules have a higher success rate. Nothing. No successes.
What am I missing? Do I really have to train those three skills to level 5 and if so. Do you guys have any idea how much more successful I would be?
Bit miffed at invention at the moment,
- Evil
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.10.30 11:16:00 -
[2]
With your skills, you should have around 20% base chance for ship, at least 40% base chance for modules.
Advanced theories should give you around 22%/44% success chance, operation handbook around 16%/32% chance.
While not quite frequent, a 10-streak of failures even with those chances can happend.
_
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El'essar Viocragh
Minmatar
FSK23
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Posted - 2007.10.30 13:05:00 -
[3]
I think I had my first success somewhere around try 25 with skills at 4/5/4 in the order you listed them.
That simply happens with statistics :)
--
[17:47] <Mephysto> its dead, jim |
Toku Jiang
Jiang Laboratories and Discovery
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Posted - 2007.10.30 17:46:00 -
[4]
The simple answer is no, you do not need level 5's in all skills to be successful. Does it help? Of course it does, but I had success with invention with 4/4/4 skills, and saw some small returns now that I am at 5/5/5, but in the overall scheme of things you probably are only missing out on a 1-2% chance increase.
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littlechaoz2
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Posted - 2007.10.30 18:20:00 -
[5]
also make sure ur popping out max run copies, ur much more likely to have a success with a max run
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Qual
Gallente
Cornexant Research
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Posted - 2007.10.30 18:24:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: littlechaoz2
also make sure ur popping out max run copies, ur much more likely to have a success with a max run
Intresting theroy. I havent seen any data supporting that idea though. Actually the quite extensive material i've seen on succes rates until now says that number of runs does NOT influence it.
"The short version: Qual is right." -Papa Smurf |
Admiral Nova
Strike Team Nova
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Posted - 2007.10.30 18:31:00 -
[7]
The skills seem to influence the process very minimally :(
I have not noticed any change whatsoever. It's probably there, but so few % that you would need to put many thousands of attempts in before you could accurately say it had made a difference.
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Jurgen Cartis
Caldari
Interstellar Corporation of Exploration
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Posted - 2007.10.30 18:39:00 -
[8]
Originally by: littlechaoz2
also make sure ur popping out max run copies, ur much more likely to have a success with a max run
Runs on imput BPC affect the output runs, but not the chances to succeed.
--------------------
ICE Blueprint Sales
FIRST!! -Yipsilanti
Pfft. Never such a thing as a "last chance". ;) -Rauth |
Won Swunglow
Caldari
Dead By Dawn
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Posted - 2007.10.30 21:37:00 -
[9]
I've been doing inventions for some time now, and have had a great deal of success overall, with making my own T2 components as well i'm turning over about 400mill a week. All thanks to invention 
My tips are as follows...
ALWAYS use Max run Bpc's (your own POS is VERY handy here)
For Module invention the Decryptors i use are:
Operational Handbooks (Minmitar),
User Manual (Caldari),
Sacred Manifesto (Amarr),
Engagement Plan (Gallente)...
These Decryptors give me 12runs when the invention is successful.
Where possible i use Named modules with a Meta LvL of 2 or more.
Ships:
Only tried Frigates, Destroyers and Cruisers so far.
ALWAYS use the BEST chance Decryptor for anything other then the Frig inventions
For Frig Invention I always use the User Manuals or better (Bombers are selling pretty well at the moment) But in my opinion Frig invention using the Best chance Decryptor, just isnt worth it as they are FAAAAAR to exspencive atm.
All in all, I've had fantastic success with Module Invention, and so so success with ship inventions...
My skills are:
Encryption Skill lvl 5 (all of them)
and the necesery Science skills to lvl 4
Take from this info what you will.
Hope it helps
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Tanaka Vinck
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Posted - 2007.10.30 22:48:00 -
[10]
Max run decryptors drop your chance of success to something like 8% according to Evemeep. At that success rate, with the cost of mech engineering cores, it's literally impossible to make a profit inventing things like harpies/hawks. Is this everyone else's impression or am I just not understanding the concept correctly?
I'm working on diversifying my skills in order to be able to switch production into profitable areas, maybe for now I just haven't looked at the right areas.
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Jameroz
Art of War
Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.10.30 22:59:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Tanaka Vinck
Max run decryptors drop your chance of success to something like 8% according to Evemeep. At that success rate, with the cost of mech engineering cores, it's literally impossible to make a profit inventing things like harpies/hawks. Is this everyone else's impression or am I just not understanding the concept correctly?
I'm working on diversifying my skills in order to be able to switch production into profitable areas, maybe for now I just haven't looked at the right areas.
The point of the whole system is to provide everyone a way to produce T2 items, not necessarily make profit. Now if the said product is already so cheap that production through invention isn't worth a while then don't produce it. It's mostly just a sa***uard against insane profits for T2 BPOs and if/when nothing is worth a while to produce through invention then datacore prices will drop and some items will be profitable again. The items with best profitability will be the ones that people will produce with invention and thus make the price drop to reasonable levels again.
Then there is always the Deep 0.0 market, but with Capitals, Jump Freighter and Freighter+Titan already having easy time hauling T2 stuff there the profit probably isn't that much better.
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Draghkar
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.10.31 11:15:00 -
[12]
<hijack thrad> What about faction ship invention? Is that due in Rev 3 or is it out already, if it is, does anyone have any input on it? </hijack thread>
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El'essar Viocragh
Minmatar
FSK23
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Posted - 2007.10.31 15:37:00 -
[13]
Faction varaints showing up on sisi on the invention tab was a bug.
It was fixed.
--
[17:47] <Mephysto> its dead, jim |
ReaperOfSly
Gallente
Lyrus Associates
M. PIRE
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Posted - 2007.10.31 16:09:00 -
[14]
I've been running module invention jobs with skills at 3/3/4. Been getting just over 50% success rate.
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J3ST3R
Gallente
Dark Light Inc
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Posted - 2007.10.31 19:21:00 -
[15]
Ship invention does it seem have a lower success rate than module invention.
Personally I'm only attempting to invent items that I have the 3 relevant science skills trained to lvl V. I'm also using max run BPC with a minimum me/pe of 100 for modules and as high as possible for ships, also I'm only using meta level 3 and 4 items (for mods).
While starting out try to influence invention in as many possible ways that is feasible to you that or stop using Datacores and driving up other peoples costs 
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Akio Jomun
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Posted - 2007.11.01 04:04:00 -
[16]
With the price of mechanical datacores I may stop wasting them on failed invention jobs and start farming every agent available to sell on the market, I'd probably make more profit that way. Please keep making gazillions of cruise missile bpc's and keep the market strong.
- Akio
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Aykido
Gallente
Lobster of Babel
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Posted - 2007.11.01 05:21:00 -
[17]
Very few items that use mech eng datacores are worth it atm.
in fact most inventable items cannot be invented at a profit IF you count the value of the items used in invention (I use lowest sell in Jita as base for everything I obtain through other means than purchase, because that is an accurate indicator of their worth)
Of course that leaves around 50 worthwhile products, a list which changes every week even if there are a few constants.
Regarding level 5 skills. They help a lot, not only because they increase chance but also because they increase the amount of RPs you can get per day from your R&D agents.
I have roughly 25% chance with ships (adjusted with decryptor) and roughly 50-60% chance on modules (adjusted with meta items and decryptors, if any).
This is from hundreds of attempts. So if you go by what 4/4/4 skilled inventors post, we are talking close to a 20% increase in the success rate. that is a net gain of 5/10%. Well worth the months of training. I reckon it is similiar to competing in T1 production with Production Efficiency at 4. With other things being equal you profit less.
Selling PERFECT PRINTS of all seeded T1 BPO: modules, rigs, drones, ammo and ships (2 ships missing), and most capital modules too! Also any INVENTED T2 BPC and max run invention prints in bulk! |
Admiral Nova
Strike Team Nova
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Posted - 2007.11.01 13:32:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Tanaka Vinck
Max run decryptors drop your chance of success to something like 8% according to Evemeep. At that success rate, with the cost of mech engineering cores, it's literally impossible to make a profit inventing things like harpies/hawks. Is this everyone else's impression or am I just not understanding the concept correctly?
I'm working on diversifying my skills in order to be able to switch production into profitable areas, maybe for now I just haven't looked at the right areas.
Which decryptor to use depends on:
Base T2 output runs (1 for ships/rigs 10 for mods)
BPC cost
Number of datacores used (is it cheaper to do 10x attempts instead of using 1 decryptor that increases runs by 10x)
Wastage (does the extra wastage on the BPC matter?)
Probably a few other things as well.
Generally if it requires a low amt of datacores, no decryptor or one of the cheap ones is best.
If it requires a medium amount of datacores/materials, possibly the max runs one.
If it requires ALOT of datacores probably the max chance one.
If it has a base output of 10 runs, probably no decryptor.
Alot of things are just not profitable to invent. It changes quite abit on supply/demand.
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