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Ok, be honest are Amarr-Ships really that bad in PvP?

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Torco	Posted - 2007.10.30 11:55:00 - [1] hi, i have a pretty new account and I am almost done with learning skills etc and my goal is to fly as a PvP Pilot. Right now i am able to fly Minmatar frigs and destroyers. They are ok and i assume they are great in PvP in the future BUT: I really love the looks of Amarr Ships! So are Amarr Ships really THAT bad in PVP? I also like to fly ships that are not FOTM, but with the feedback here on the forums and the fact that I dont see Amarr Ships except Abbadons I am a bit concerned... So what do you suggest , go all the way with Minmatar or can I change to Amarr? And no I wont fly both, I want to specialize on one Interceptor than Cruiser first :-) Thanks in advance
Born Slippy	Posted - 2007.10.30 12:00:00 - [2] Amarr ships are great, there pilots suck though go minmatar, they own. they have sails.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Uninvited Guests	Posted - 2007.10.30 12:00:00 - [3] Originally by: Torco hi, i have a pretty new account and I am almost done with learning skills etc and my goal is to fly as a PvP Pilot. Right now i am able to fly Minmatar frigs and destroyers. They are ok and i assume they are great in PvP in the future BUT: I really love the looks of Amarr Ships! So are Amarr Ships really THAT bad in PVP? I also like to fly ships that are not FOTM, but with the feedback here on the forums and the fact that I dont see Amarr Ships except Abbadons I am a bit concerned... So what do you suggest , go all the way with Minmatar or can I change to Amarr? And no I wont fly both, I want to specialize on one Interceptor than Cruiser first :-) Thanks in advance I hope you have planned to play a long time because both Amarr and especially minmatar are high skill races. You'll suck for a long time before you can compete. Good thing with Minmatar is that they get THE best frig there is, the rifter. Their interceptors arent bad either. Id say interceptors are equal between minmatar and amarr. Cruisers: Minmatar have stabbers, its a great cruiser. Nothing amarr has comes close to it but on the other hand amarr cruisers suck big time. Minmatar has good ships in pretty much all ship classes. If you wanna go amarr because you feel like it sure, but dont go in for the cruisers, they suck. Aim for the battleships from the start. Or take the BC route to the commandships.
Torco	Posted - 2007.10.30 12:05:00 - [4] @Lyria Skydancer Thanks for the friendly and informative suggestion. very kind.... any other opinions? :-)
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Republic University	Posted - 2007.10.30 12:09:00 - [5] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer I hope you have planned to play a long time because both Amarr and especially minmatar are high skill races. You'll suck for a long time before you can compete. Good thing with Minmatar is that they get THE best frig there is, the rifter. Their interceptors arent bad either. Id say interceptors are equal between minmatar and amarr. Cruisers: Minmatar have stabbers, its a great cruiser. Nothing amarr has comes close to it but on the other hand amarr cruisers suck big time. Minmatar has good ships in pretty much all ship classes. If you wanna go amarr because you feel like it sure, but dont go in for the cruisers, they suck. Aim for the battleships from the start. Or take the BC route to the commandships. ummm... Arbitrator??? It's even better than the Vexor.
Brodde Dim	Posted - 2007.10.30 12:15:00 - [6] Originally by: Reem Fairchild ummm... Arbitrator??? It's even better than the Vexor. It is slightly better than the vexor, for another 30 days or so. After the bandwidth changes it will be a lot worse.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Uninvited Guests	Posted - 2007.10.30 12:18:00 - [7] Originally by: Brodde Dim Originally by: Reem Fairchild ummm... Arbitrator??? It's even better than the Vexor. It is slightly better than the vexor, for another 30 days or so. After the bandwidth changes it will be a lot worse. Exactly, and before the OP gets to cruisers etc it will be worse then the vexor. So what I said holds true for his question.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.10.30 12:19:00 - [8] Ammar laser boats suck when you have to fight a highly tanked typhoon using 3 EANM II and a DC (a VERY common tank). Where you will be doign around 15% of your original damage. On other armored ships youa re lucky and you will likely give even 20% of your damage!!! On other hand your best bet is your enemies will be delivering around 25% of their original damage on you after your own resists to thermal Kin and explosive. CCp need to boost the armor Hardeners to make people use them more than EANM. Another option would be DUAl resist modules that woudl atract more than EANM. For example a dual Membrane that gives 25% resist to Exl and Kinetic and other that gives to EM/Th. That way most armor tankers woudl replace 1 of the EANM for 1 of the Exl/Kin ones to fil the hole in tank, effectively diminishing the EM resist on about 12%. Exaclty what Ammar need. If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
William DeMeo Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2007.10.30 12:35:00 - [9] Originally by: Reem Fairchild Originally by: Lyria Skydancer I hope you have planned to play a long time because both Amarr and especially minmatar are high skill races. You'll suck for a long time before you can compete. Good thing with Minmatar is that they get THE best frig there is, the rifter. Their interceptors arent bad either. Id say interceptors are equal between minmatar and amarr. Cruisers: Minmatar have stabbers, its a great cruiser. Nothing amarr has comes close to it but on the other hand amarr cruisers suck big time. Minmatar has good ships in pretty much all ship classes. If you wanna go amarr because you feel like it sure, but dont go in for the cruisers, they suck. Aim for the battleships from the start. Or take the BC route to the commandships. ummm... Arbitrator??? It's even better than the Vexor. It's not. But it's decent. Yarr
Laboratus Gallente BGG League of Abnormal Gentlemen	Posted - 2007.10.30 12:40:00 - [10] Arbie, optimised for nos, drones and EW. Best cruiser out there. Anyways. Amarr are great if used like amarr should, not as second rate gallante, like fotm crew likes to... ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
William DeMeo Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2007.10.30 12:43:00 - [11] Originally by: Laboratus Arbie, optimised for nos, drones and EW. Best cruiser out there. Anyways. Amarr are great if used like amarr should, not as second rate gallante, like fotm crew likes to... Rupture is the best cruiser, closely followed by the thorax and then the Vexor. Yarr
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Uninvited Guests	Posted - 2007.10.30 12:47:00 - [12] Originally by: William DeMeo Originally by: Laboratus Arbie, optimised for nos, drones and EW. Best cruiser out there. Anyways. Amarr are great if used like amarr should, not as second rate gallante, like fotm crew likes to... Rupture is the best cruiser, closely followed by the thorax and then the Vexor. Yes, thats why there are so many "love" posts about gallente balance
William DeMeo Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2007.10.30 12:50:00 - [13] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: William DeMeo Originally by: Laboratus Arbie, optimised for nos, drones and EW. Best cruiser out there. Anyways. Amarr are great if used like amarr should, not as second rate gallante, like fotm crew likes to... Rupture is the best cruiser, closely followed by the thorax and then the Vexor. Yes, thats why there are so many "love" posts about gallente balance What? It's the myrm people are whining about. Thorax is a very good cruiser, so is the vexor, but a 1600mm ruppy with 180's is really sick to fight 1 vs. 1. Yarr
Neutrino Sunset	Posted - 2007.10.30 12:50:00 - [14] Sorry to derail this thread slightly but what is great about the Minmatar interceptors Lyria? I started off training Minmatar ships and intended to specialize in interceptors, but when I got to fit and fly them I found that they did not compare favourable to the other races interceptors at all. The Stiletto has only 3 weapon hardpoints and must surely have the worst dps of any interceptor in the game. It's four midslots do mean that it can fit scam web and cap booster though which make it a useful fleet tackler. The Claw has only 2 mid slots and a targetting range of 20km. Which means that fitting AC is pointless since you cannot web and scram your target, to close to AC range you must first get within web range, if you get webbed your target just pounds you from the edge of web range and you die since you can't even hit at that range. If you fit arty you will not even be able to lock at your preferred range of optimal + half falloff using T2 ammo, and in close you again risk getting webbed. Minmatar interceptors are the cheapest in Eve and can be had for 4M, most other races interceptors are 5-10M and the last time I checked Crows were 18M. I think these prices accurately reflect their relative usefullness. Are Amarr cruisers really all pants? On paper the Maller would appear to have both great tank and damage and has more slots than any other cruiser in the game. I haven't flown it though so I'm just guessing here.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Uninvited Guests	Posted - 2007.10.30 12:55:00 - [15] Originally by: Neutrino Sunset Sorry to derail this thread slightly but what is great about the Minmatar interceptors Lyria? I started off training Minmatar ships and intended to specialize in interceptors, but when I got to fit and fly them I found that they did not compare favourable to the other races interceptors at all. The Stiletto has only 3 weapon hardpoints and must surely have the worst dps of any interceptor in the game. It's four midslots do mean that it can fit scam web and cap booster though which make it a useful fleet tackler. The Claw has only 2 mid slots and a targetting range of 20km. Which means that fitting AC is pointless since you cannot web and scram your target, to close to AC range you must first get within web range, if you get webbed your target just pounds you from the edge of web range and you die since you can't even hit at that range. If you fit arty you will not even be able to lock at your preferred range of optimal + half falloff using T2 ammo, and in close you again risk getting webbed. Minmatar interceptors are the cheapest in Eve and can be had for 4M, most other races interceptors are 5-10M and the last time I checked Crows were 18M. I think these prices accurately reflect their relative usefullness. Are Amarr cruisers really all pants? On paper the Maller would appear to have both great tank and damage and has more slots than any other cruiser in the game. I haven't flown it though so I'm just guessing here. Well you might be right about minmatar inties, im not THAT familiar with them. Yes the amarr cruisers suck, maller just has a tank thats it. Its dps sucks. I mean how do you expect our tank cruiser to deal good damage when even our gank cruiser sucks at it (omen).
6Bagheera9 Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2007.10.30 13:21:00 - [16] The Stiletto is a great pure tackler, but has admittedly crap dps. The Claw would be fine except for its terrible lock range, even so its still a decent ship. With regard to Amarr I think that their weakest point is their T1 cruisers. The Arbitrator is great, but both the Omen and Maller are severely gimped.
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.10.30 13:48:00 - [17] Edited by: Alex Harumichi on 30/10/2007 13:51:42 Some Amarr ships have problems, yes, but people (certain whiners in particular) are hugely exaggerating the issues. Some of the "traditional" lasers + armor gunboats are lacking, either in specs or in that they lack a role. The Pilgrim was hit way too hard by the nosfe nerf and has yet to recover. The Apoc is maybe the ultimate "ship without a role left" (to be joined by Eos, soon :). The Omen is pretty bad, and the Maller lacks oomph (great tank, but...). The upcoming Paladin looks a bit weak atm. However, the Amarr also have some excellent ships. Both their interceptors rock, they have one excellent HAC (Sacrilege) and one "at least better than Deimos" one (Zealot). The Arbitrator is arguably the best drone cruiser in the game, and one of the top 3 t1 cruisers overall. The Damnation is crazy-good, and the Absolutions isn't half bad either. Their capships are probably the best ones overall. The upcoming t2 Amarr ships (bar Paladin) look pretty hot. And so forth and so on. Yes, they need some help. But no, not as much as the loud whine brigade would like to have you think. I fly mostly Gallente and Amarr myself, in case someone wants to pipe in with some inane "what do the Gallente know?" comment.
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.10.30 13:54:00 - [18] Originally by: William DeMeo Originally by: Laboratus Arbie, optimised for nos, drones and EW. Best cruiser out there. Anyways. Amarr are great if used like amarr should, not as second rate gallante, like fotm crew likes to... Rupture is the best cruiser, closely followed by the thorax and then the Vexor. I'd place Rupture, Arbitrator and Thorax as top 3 (in no particular order). Vexor is very close to Arbitrator, though -- I prefer Arbi, but others like Vexor more.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Uninvited Guests	Posted - 2007.10.30 13:57:00 - [19] Originally by: Alex Harumichi Edited by: Alex Harumichi on 30/10/2007 13:49:30 Some Amarr ships have problems, yes, but people (certain whiners in particular) are hugely exaggerating the issues. Some of the "traditional" lasers + armor gunboats are lacking, either in specs or in that they lack a role. The Pilgrim was hit way too hard by the nosfe nerf and has yet to recover. The Apoc is maybe the ultimate "ship without a role left" (to be joined by Eos, soon :). The Omen is pretty bad, and the Maller lacks oomph (great tank, but...). However, the Amarr also have some excellent ships. Both their interceptors rock, they have one excellent HAC (Sacrilege) and one "at least better than Deimos" one (Zealot). The Arbitrator is arguably the best drone cruiser in the game, and one of the top 3 t1 cruisers overall. The Damnation is crazy-good, and the Absolutions isn't half bad either. Their carriers are probably the best overall. And so forth and so on. Yes, they need some help. But no, not as much as the loud whine brigade would like to have you think. I fly mostly Gallente and Amarr myself, in case someone wants to pipe in with some inane "what do the Gallente know?" comment. Good ones: Damnation: Very good fleet command Logistic: Very good Abaddon: Good Geddon: Good bang for little isk Harbinger: Good gank, failed tank Inties: Both good Absolution: An ok command ship in comparison Sacri: Good Hac Crap list: Destroyers: Meh, thrasher owns Frigs: Punisher so-so and totally fails compared to rifer. but everyone else does too Arbi: After drone bandwidth, fails. Vexor better Omen: Epic failed gank ship in comparison Maller: Good tank, no gank. So whats the use Prophecy: Good tank, no gank. Whats the use. Fails. Zealot: Crappy wanna be gank HAC AFs: Both crap compared to minmatar AFs Pilgrim: Fails as group ship and as solo ship. fail fail fail. Apoc: NR1 EPIC FAIL SHIP The crap list sure is long
Feng Schui Minmatar The Ninja Coalition	Posted - 2007.10.30 13:57:00 - [20] Originally by: Brodde Dim Originally by: Reem Fairchild ummm... Arbitrator??? It's even better than the Vexor. It is slightly better than the vexor, for another 30 days or so. After the bandwidth changes it will be a lot worse. hate to break it to ya, but the arbitrator has sucked balls since the NOS nerf.
Aya Otosaki	Posted - 2007.10.30 13:59:00 - [21] Edited by: Aya Otosaki on 30/10/2007 14:01:30 Originally by: Alex Harumichi However, the Amarr also have some excellent ships. Both their interceptors rock, they have one excellent HAC (Sacrilege) and one "at least better than Deimos" one (Zealot) What i really hate about the sac is that i feel that i have to choose do I want to be useful to my alliance and train for large t2 guns or do i want to have fun, train for sac/missiles. Zealot is pretty meh though. Dont know anything about deimos. //edit forgot about inderdictors being missile based, they are pretty useful on alliance level, but still, t2 large guns, arg. ----- Ignorance is my strength.
Laboratus Gallente BGG League of Abnormal Gentlemen	Posted - 2007.10.30 14:02:00 - [22] Zealot = good dps at nice range Deimos = great dps if you live long enough to see their eyewhites ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
Madla Mafia The Dead Man's Hand	Posted - 2007.10.30 14:06:00 - [23] There used to be a few, very few, good Amarr ships. Now though, they have all been demoted to hangar decoration. Go with any race besides Amarr and you'll be fine. Amarr are in need of a good boost, which looks like will never come. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Amarr - getting screwed since 2005.
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.10.30 14:13:00 - [24] Originally by: Laboratus Zealot = good dps at nice range Deimos = great dps if you live long enough to see their eyewhites Yeah. Deimos is great if you live long enough to get to point-blank range, but that's a big "if". In a lot of situations, being able to deal instant ranged damage is worth a lot more. With 4 meds Deimos would rock, but without the capability of fitting mwd+web+scramble+booster it's a problematic blaster boat. Zealot is only so-so with Pulses, but it actually makes a pretty decent cruiser-size anti-support sniper with beams. Sure, the Eagle has lots more range and the Munnin is arguably a bit better, but it's still useful (and better than anything the Gallente have for that role). I'm not saying the Zealot is great. I'm just saying it's (imho) a bit better than the Deimos in a lot of cases.
Nomakai Delateriel Amarr Delictum 23216	Posted - 2007.10.30 14:13:00 - [25] I pretty much have to agree with Lyria Skydancer on the Good/Crap list. Although a Heavy Beam/Pulse Zealot is pretty good once you have friends holding down the enemy. As for the Deimos. It's a lot better these days after they raised the base speed and lowered its weight. It ain't no Nano-ishtar, but it's finally the "Thorax on Steroids" that it was supposed to be. ______________________________________________ -You can never earn my respect, only lose it. It's given freely, and only grudgingly retracted when necessary.
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.10.30 14:20:00 - [26] Originally by: Aya Otosaki Edited by: Aya Otosaki on 30/10/2007 14:01:30 Originally by: Alex Harumichi However, the Amarr also have some excellent ships. Both their interceptors rock, they have one excellent HAC (Sacrilege) and one "at least better than Deimos" one (Zealot) What i really hate about the sac is that i feel that i have to choose do I want to be useful to my alliance and train for large t2 guns or do i want to have fun, train for sac/missiles. Well, train both. In the long run, it's a good idea to be able to use lots of different weapon types, gives you a lot more flexibility... and med-size weapons are relatively quick to train up for, anyway. And yeah, the Heretic & Malediction also use missiles, so you'll also get ability to use those to full potential (and both are nice ships, imho, Malediction is an excellent tackler and Heretic is the 2nd-best interdictor at the moment, imho). I've personally trained hybrids, lasers, projectiles, missiles, etc. Some better than others, of course.
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.10.30 14:23:00 - [27] Originally by: Nomakai Delateriel As for the Deimos. It's a lot better these days after they raised the base speed and lowered its weight. It ain't no Nano-ishtar, but it's finally the "Thorax on Steroids" that it was supposed to be. Yeah, it's better now, it used to be a total joke of a "flying coffin". I still don't really like the ship, the 3 meds make flying it as a blaster ship painful. Do you leave out booster (and run high risk of running out of cap before you're even halfway to killing the other guy) or leave out web (and forget about killing anything faster than you, which is... a lot of ships. Meh.
OwnedBy Me	Posted - 2007.10.30 14:27:00 - [28] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Alex Harumichi Edited by: Alex Harumichi on 30/10/2007 13:49:30 Some Amarr ships have problems, yes, but people (certain whiners in particular) are hugely exaggerating the issues. Some of the "traditional" lasers + armor gunboats are lacking, either in specs or in that they lack a role. The Pilgrim was hit way too hard by the nosfe nerf and has yet to recover. The Apoc is maybe the ultimate "ship without a role left" (to be joined by Eos, soon :). The Omen is pretty bad, and the Maller lacks oomph (great tank, but...). However, the Amarr also have some excellent ships. Both their interceptors rock, they have one excellent HAC (Sacrilege) and one "at least better than Deimos" one (Zealot). The Arbitrator is arguably the best drone cruiser in the game, and one of the top 3 t1 cruisers overall. The Damnation is crazy-good, and the Absolutions isn't half bad either. Their carriers are probably the best overall. And so forth and so on. Yes, they need some help. But no, not as much as the loud whine brigade would like to have you think. I fly mostly Gallente and Amarr myself, in case someone wants to pipe in with some inane "what do the Gallente know?" comment. Good ones: Damnation: Very good fleet command Logistic: Very good Abaddon: Good Geddon: Good bang for little isk Harbinger: Good gank, failed tank Inties: Both good Absolution: An ok command ship in comparison Sacri: Good Hac Crap list: Destroyers: Meh, thrasher owns Frigs: Punisher so-so and totally fails compared to rifer. but everyone else does too Arbi: After drone bandwidth, fails. Vexor better Omen: Epic failed gank ship in comparison Maller: Good tank, no gank. So whats the use Prophecy: Good tank, no gank. Whats the use. Fails. Zealot: Crappy wanna be gank HAC AFs: Both crap compared to minmatar AFs Pilgrim: Fails as group ship and as solo ship. fail fail fail. Apoc: NR1 EPIC FAIL SHIP The crap list sure is long Cry more amarr whiner.. All AF¦s fail and u know it.. The Zealot is a good sniper much like the muninn/eagle is.. Prophecy sucks, what about Ferox, Brutix and Cyclone.. They all suck.. its not just amarr whiner boy. Arbi: its less usefull after patch, so are all drone carriers so ur no special my amarr whiner freind. Pilgrim still works, it not a "i kill everything solo" boat anylonger but it works fine and many amarr have said so in the post about it. But how offen is the lach used, less then the pilgrim..
mallina Caldari Core Contingency	Posted - 2007.10.30 14:34:00 - [29] Don't forget the Coercer. 8 Dual Light Beam II, MWD, Triple Heatsink and Plate will take down any Interceptor within 35km and can easily break AF tanks at that range, unless it's Minmatar. Zealot is quite decent. Good DPS at medium range, makes a good ship in nanogangs, but sucks within webrange. Harbinger is amazing if flown right. The new, nerfed Myrmidon is actually worthless in comparison. Absolution has the best combo of Gank + Tank out of any Command. Only disadvantage is the fact it has 3 meds, which usually means not having an MWD. Amarr have sucky ships, but their decent ships more than make up for it IMO. ---
OwnedBy Me	Posted - 2007.10.30 14:35:00 - [30] Originally by: mallina Amarr have sucky ships, but their decent ships more than make up for it IMO. Like everyone else...

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