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Manhunt 2 vs. Common Sense

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F'nog Amarr Celestial Horizon Corp. Valainaloce	Posted - 2007.10.31 07:37:00 - [1] Manhunt 2 will be available at any moment, depending on where you live and when you read this. Now, the game has caused a lot of controversy over its graphical violence and its suitability for minors. Am I the only one dumbstruck by this? A game that encourages graphically and violently killing innocent bystanders. OK. And there's an argument that this shouldn't be sold to minors. Am I missing something? Of course it shouldn't be sold to minors. It's like asking if minors should be allowed to drink Mercury. Duh. If you're a somewhat sensible parent, you say, "No." But there are countless parental groups saying this game shouldn't be sold to minors. I'm really wondering where society has gone that this is even needed. Maybe it's just because I know that coffee is hot without having to be told, but I really don't know where the problem is. I'm not currently a parent, but if I were, I wouldn't let a kid near it with a 100' pole. Does it really take that long for parents to browse/search the web and not realize this game isn't suitable for their children? Do we need others to tell us this? Note: I'm all for violence in games for those who can deal with it. If you're over 18, or whatever in your country, play and enjoy. But how is it that a game that simulates violent murder somehow not immediately and totally apparent that it shouldn't be played by kids? I just don't get it. Are there that many parents out there that think that games are still at the level of Pac-Man or Pong? Do you not have access to electricity or something? I used to get It. Then It changed. Now I don't even know what It is.
Weeman Caldari Spartan Industries Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2007.10.31 09:45:00 - [2] A lot of it is to sell papers (The Daily Fascist) etc. Sorry, the mail ofc. While it is common sense that this game should have an 18 cert. unfortunately Manhunt is completely indefensible as a game. An excellent article in this months Edge pretty much sums it up (Biffovision) in which ITV boss Michael Grade rebutted EA's CE John Riccitiello who claimed that games are unfairly demonised by the media. Grade described games as existing in a 'moral vacuum' which to be fair is correct, because games are unable to 'contextualise its content within a dramatic narrative'. Riccitiello was then forced to concede that games' ability to tell stories was still in its infancy. Mr Biffo - 'There's a world of difference between being an active, firstperson participant in acts of virtual violence to watching violent acts carried out within the context of a story. Instead of getting on the defensive...itsn't it about time we all grew up a bit, said fair enough. Instead of denying that violent games are a bad thing, lets just embrace it in a responsible fashion, and move on.'
Kye Kenshin Martial.	Posted - 2007.10.31 11:10:00 - [3] The thing I don't get is violence is violence. Yet apparently some types of violence is ok in video games Take WW2 shooters, kill a 100 solidiers and your playing a hero and parents are ok with that, kill someone in manhunt with a plastic bag and suddenly your playing a murdering biatch and need electro-shock therapy because mummy is afraid you'll become a serial killer. -------------------------------------- Join Martial\|Beagle Corp Museum
Hooch Flux Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.10.31 12:21:00 - [4] Originally by: F'nog But there are countless parental groups saying this game shouldn't be sold to minors. I'm really wondering where society has gone that this is even needed. Maybe it's just because I know that coffee is hot without having to be told, but I really don't know where the problem is. It's always easier to jump on a bandwagon blaming something for their child's behavior than it is to take responsibility for it themselves, parents should be monitoring what their children are into and whether their child is responsible and mature enough to handle it. In Europe and I believe the US, the software companies self regulate and advertise on the casing whether the game has content for an age group or maturity level. If the parents allow their child to buy the products anyways then the parents have no recourse. From what I have seen this is more about lazy parenting where the parents don't want to regulate the child themselves and somehow seem to be under the impression that it is the job of the government, school, whatever to bubble wrap their children. People need to start taking resposibilty for them and theirs. Also, the press hams it up. I say prep for dustoff, nuke the site from orbit... Only way to be sure!
Neon Genesis The Landed Gentry	Posted - 2007.10.31 12:38:00 - [5] But we're allowed to get films like house of 1000 corpses and others featuring seemingly senseless and outrageous violence. I can't imagine manhunt would be any more graphic than hundreds of films have been already. _
Yao Shiu	Posted - 2007.10.31 13:03:00 - [6] Edited by: Yao Shiu on 31/10/2007 13:03:41 with recent films like saw an hostel, it would be stupid to censor games like manhunt. nasty torture**** films seem to depict much more graphic violence that these games. the main problem is, that shops and parents dont seem to take the bbfc (or wherever you are) rating for games seriously. a game with an 18 rating shouldnt be sold to minors. there is no need to ban it. the "outrage" is ridiculous when these games have specifically been rated as being for adults, and not for children. any responsible parent should take heed of these ratings and make sure the games they're letting their kids play are suitable.
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.31 13:50:00 - [7] tbh this is all because parents CBA to control what their sons play or see or read. Too much time y'know? and they are already late to see that football match on the telly. --- planetary interaction idea!
Nlewis GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.31 13:53:00 - [8] if someone is going to kill people from playing violent video games then obviously they weren't right in the head to begin with and would probably do it anyways
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2007.10.31 14:11:00 - [9] Edited by: Imperator Jora''h on 31/10/2007 14:13:02 Is playing a violent video game any worse than taking your 12 year old hunting? Yes there is a big difference between shooting animals and humans but then there is a big difference between playing a video game with violence and actually having a gun put in your hands and blowing another living thing away. Heck, before video games parents would give their kids BB/pellet guns and the kids would go out and shoot each other and the local wildlife (usually some poor squirrel or rabbit). I've been shot a fair number of times by BB's and my friend got a pellet stuck in his leg from a friend who over pumped his pellet gun and shot him from close range...I miss those days. Kids have been taught to hunt since before history. And violent video games have been out for a long time but somehow society has continued on just fine. Yes we see the occasional horror like Columbine but those kids had issues which you cannot lay at the doorstep of video games. Blaming video games is simply looking for a convenient scapegoat. The problem is almost certainly FAR more in the parent's court in how they raise their children and teach them to be decent human beings. So much easier for them though to blame some evil outside influence. EDIT: And yes Manhunt is repugnant and morally deficient but I would find the censorship that would stop such things to be even more vile to my way of thinking.
digital0verdose Caldari	Posted - 2007.10.31 15:47:00 - [10] Originally by: Neon Genesis But we're allowed to get films like house of 1000 corpses and others featuring seemingly senseless and outrageous violence. I can't imagine manhunt would be any more graphic than hundreds of films have been already. House of 1000 Corpses sits hidden in the shadows of Hostel I & II and SAW I -IV. While house was violent, it is not torturous like SAW and Hostel. I sat through House with no issue. It actually reminded me of early horror flicks. I sat through the first two SAWs and the first Hostel out of pure curiosity and will never watch another film in either series. --------------------------------------
Mudkest MetaForge Ekliptika	Posted - 2007.10.31 16:31:00 - [11] Originally by: Kye Kenshin The thing I don't get is violence is violence. Yet apparently some types of violence is ok in video games Take WW2 shooters, kill a 100 solidiers and your playing a hero and parents are ok with that, kill someone in manhunt with a plastic bag and suddenly your playing a murdering biatch and need electro-shock therapy because mummy is afraid you'll become a serial killer. yes, violence is violence, but personal i see a difference between shooting enemy soldiers cause you are playing a soldier in a wwII game, or cutting someone up with a chainsaw or whatever cause you're playing a gangster in grand theft auto or soemthing. personaly though, I think kids should be playing war outside, using stick for guns or whatever, and not sitting inside eating junkfood and playing videogames. ----- GIEV custom ship paint jobs! I want my hello-kitty-kessie! For your safety do not destroy vital testing apparatus
Derovius Vaden	Posted - 2007.10.31 17:05:00 - [12] Originally by: F'nog Manhunt 2 will be available at any moment, depending on where you live and when you read this. Now, the game has caused a lot of controversy over its graphical violence and its suitability for minors. Am I the only one dumbstruck by this? A game that encourages graphically and violently killing innocent bystanders. OK. And there's an argument that this shouldn't be sold to minors. Am I missing something? Of course it shouldn't be sold to minors. It's like asking if minors should be allowed to drink Mercury. Duh. If you're a somewhat sensible parent, you say, "No." But there are countless parental groups saying this game shouldn't be sold to minors. I'm really wondering where society has gone that this is even needed. Maybe it's just because I know that coffee is hot without having to be told, but I really don't know where the problem is. I'm not currently a parent, but if I were, I wouldn't let a kid near it with a 100' pole. Does it really take that long for parents to browse/search the web and not realize this game isn't suitable for their children? Do we need others to tell us this? Note: I'm all for violence in games for those who can deal with it. If you're over 18, or whatever in your country, play and enjoy. But how is it that a game that simulates violent murder somehow not immediately and totally apparent that it shouldn't be played by kids? I just don't get it. Are there that many parents out there that think that games are still at the level of Pac-Man or Pong? Do you not have access to electricity or something? There is actually a group in the US I believe called Parents for Advertisement Free Childhood or some such thing encouraging parents to boycott Manhunt 2. Thus begs the question, can I encourage parents not to let their children sniff paint thinner and be on TV too. Common sense has officially been put to bed.
JADE DRAG0NESS Dark Scorpions Fate Weavers	Posted - 2007.10.31 17:10:00 - [13] I remember carmageddon now that was a good one for killing bystanders. "Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god." -- Jean Rostand
Phunkeh	Posted - 2007.10.31 17:29:00 - [14] Manhunt 1 has been banned in many stores of the UK due to what parents think was a murder linked to Manhunt. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/07/29/dixons_manhunt/ Manhunt 2 is also banned in the UK permantly. Even though Rockstar tried to make a slightly less grusome game, the BBFC still turned it down. I also agree with opinions that it's not the games fault, its the parents fault. The first 18 rated game I played was GTAIII, I loved it IMO and I was only young (9 or 11 at the time) and it wasn't necessarily my parent fault as they hadn't bought the game for me. My friend at school had it from his dad (they were divorced) and got to play it. The only other 18 rated game I got was GTA SA, and I think I turned out quite fine ^^ Good parents take care of their children and what they should do. Its not the developers fault for making a game for a wider variety of audience. It's a shame society has become like this, wish it hadn't but everyone demands for rights and etc.
digital0verdose Caldari	Posted - 2007.10.31 18:08:00 - [15] Edited by: digital0verdose on 31/10/2007 18:10:58 Edited by: digital0verdose on 31/10/2007 18:09:58 Edited by: digital0verdose on 31/10/2007 18:08:25 Originally by: Derovius Vaden Originally by: F'nog Manhunt 2 will be available at any moment, depending on where you live and when you read this. Now, the game has caused a lot of controversy over its graphical violence and its suitability for minors. Am I the only one dumbstruck by this? A game that encourages graphically and violently killing innocent bystanders. OK. And there's an argument that this shouldn't be sold to minors. Am I missing something? Of course it shouldn't be sold to minors. It's like asking if minors should be allowed to drink Mercury. Duh. If you're a somewhat sensible parent, you say, "No." But there are countless parental groups saying this game shouldn't be sold to minors. I'm really wondering where society has gone that this is even needed. Maybe it's just because I know that coffee is hot without having to be told, but I really don't know where the problem is. I'm not currently a parent, but if I were, I wouldn't let a kid near it with a 100' pole. Does it really take that long for parents to browse/search the web and not realize this game isn't suitable for their children? Do we need others to tell us this? Note: I'm all for violence in games for those who can deal with it. If you're over 18, or whatever in your country, play and enjoy. But how is it that a game that simulates violent murder somehow not immediately and totally apparent that it shouldn't be played by kids? I just don't get it. Are there that many parents out there that think that games are still at the level of Pac-Man or Pong? Do you not have access to electricity or something? There is actually a group in the US I believe called Parents for Advertisement Free Childhood or some such thing encouraging parents to boycott Manhunt 2. Thus begs the question, can I encourage parents not to let their children sniff paint thinner and be on TV too. Common sense has officially been put to bed. There is something very interesting about this. Generally in America, violence in video games is significantly much more acceptable than nudity or sex. A great example of this is pulled from when I work as a manager for Gamestop around the time the first Manhunt game came out. I had a mother that wanted to purchase this for her kid, and when I say kid, I mean a kid that couldn't have been more than 10. I warned her that the game had very graphic content and very strong language and asked that she used some discretion. She promptly told me, "as long as there ain't no (slang for female mammaries) or (slang for male member), I don't care." I just looked at the kid and mouthed the word sorry, and sold the gem the game. P.S. CCP, you do realize that b r e a s t are a part of every mammal in the world and are not just a part of the female anatomy right? --------------------------------------
Wardog 1 Infinitus Odium The Church.	Posted - 2007.10.31 18:19:00 - [16] Originally by: Neon Genesis But we're allowed to get films like house of 1000 corpses and others featuring seemingly senseless and outrageous violence. I can't imagine manhunt would be any more graphic than hundreds of films have been already. The excuse from the BBFC or whatever, is that in movies like the aforementioned, the viewer is only exposed to violence for limited periods of time, and while just as gruesome as manhunt in pieces, the exposion is limited. The particular interview i read used Hostel as an example, not quite House of A Thousand Corpses but as it goes movies like those are mostly filler and dialog :
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar mUfFiN fAcToRy	Posted - 2007.10.31 18:51:00 - [17] Edited by: Surfin''s PlunderBunny on 31/10/2007 18:51:04 Originally by: digital0verdose P.S. CCP, you do realize that b r e a s t are a part of every mammal in the world and are not just a part of the female anatomy right? It's an offensive word to me and I don't wanna hear it Originally by: Liz Kali Tic Toc Tic Toc , time is ticking I owned someone on forums!!!
digital0verdose Caldari	Posted - 2007.10.31 18:57:00 - [18] Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny Edited by: Surfin''s PlunderBunny on 31/10/2007 18:51:04 Originally by: digital0verdose P.S. CCP, you do realize that b r e a s t are a part of every mammal in the world and are not just a part of the female anatomy right? It's an offensive word to me and I don't wanna hear it O_o Where are you from that a term that relates to both male and female mammals, a coat pocket and a slice of chicken is offensive? --------------------------------------
Derovius Vaden	Posted - 2007.10.31 19:32:00 - [19] Originally by: digital0verdose Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny Edited by: Surfin''s PlunderBunny on 31/10/2007 18:51:04 Originally by: digital0verdose P.S. CCP, you do realize that b r e a s t are a part of every mammal in the world and are not just a part of the female anatomy right? It's an offensive word to me and I don't wanna hear it O_o Where are you from that a term that relates to both male and female mammals, a coat pocket and a slice of chicken is offensive? I'd rather CCP keep the boobies censored than set a precident and let those liberal pansies get their foot in the door about having *** uncensored. Small sacrifices for the greater good, I suppose.
digital0verdose Caldari	Posted - 2007.10.31 19:35:00 - [20] Originally by: Derovius Vaden Originally by: digital0verdose Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny Edited by: Surfin''s PlunderBunny on 31/10/2007 18:51:04 Originally by: digital0verdose P.S. CCP, you do realize that b r e a s t are a part of every mammal in the world and are not just a part of the female anatomy right? It's an offensive word to me and I don't wanna hear it O_o Where are you from that a term that relates to both male and female mammals, a coat pocket and a slice of chicken is offensive? I'd rather CCP keep the boobies censored than set a precident and let those liberal pansies get their foot in the door about having *** uncensored. Small sacrifices for the greater good, I suppose. Wait wait wait, boobies isn't censored, but b r e a s t is? wtf? And just so we are clear, the word I was referencing in my quote from that gem of a parent starts with t and ends with ies. --------------------------------------
Derovius Vaden	Posted - 2007.10.31 19:36:00 - [21] Originally by: digital0verdose Originally by: Derovius Vaden Originally by: digital0verdose Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny Edited by: Surfin''s PlunderBunny on 31/10/2007 18:51:04 Originally by: digital0verdose P.S. CCP, you do realize that b r e a s t are a part of every mammal in the world and are not just a part of the female anatomy right? It's an offensive word to me and I don't wanna hear it O_o Where are you from that a term that relates to both male and female mammals, a coat pocket and a slice of chicken is offensive? I'd rather CCP keep the boobies censored than set a precident and let those liberal pansies get their foot in the door about having *** uncensored. Small sacrifices for the greater good, I suppose. Wait wait wait, boobies isn't censored, but b r e a s t is? wtf? And just so we are clear, the word I was referencing in my quote from that gem of a parent starts with t and ends with ies. Thats because boobies are funny.
digital0verdose Caldari	Posted - 2007.10.31 19:44:00 - [22] Originally by: Derovius Vaden Originally by: digital0verdose Originally by: Derovius Vaden Originally by: digital0verdose Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny Edited by: Surfin''s PlunderBunny on 31/10/2007 18:51:04 Originally by: digital0verdose P.S. CCP, you do realize that b r e a s t are a part of every mammal in the world and are not just a part of the female anatomy right? It's an offensive word to me and I don't wanna hear it O_o Where are you from that a term that relates to both male and female mammals, a coat pocket and a slice of chicken is offensive? I'd rather CCP keep the boobies censored than set a precident and let those liberal pansies get their foot in the door about having *** uncensored. Small sacrifices for the greater good, I suppose. Wait wait wait, boobies isn't censored, but b r e a s t is? wtf? And just so we are clear, the word I was referencing in my quote from that gem of a parent starts with t and ends with ies. Thats because boobies are funny. touche --------------------------------------
Horza Otho Minmatar Infortunatus Eventus HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2007.10.31 20:07:00 - [23] Edited by: Horza Otho on 31/10/2007 20:08:47 Edited by: Horza Otho on 31/10/2007 20:08:04 Theres a very fine line today between what is acceptable and whats not. Theres the WW (World War) based games where you kill so many gestapo to achieve your objective, and your parents never even give it a second glance dismissing it as perhaps something educational or irrelevant to the problem of violence, but alas this is part of a giant double standard ran by many ignorant parents that some violent games are violent and some are not. The hypocritical nature of such opinions that a game where you kill someone with a chain saw is bad and a game where you kill someone with a Rifle is good should be enough to dismiss any arguement due to the moronic fence hopping done by the parents/whoever makes these decisions. If you don't want your child to be effected by such violence eliminate the violence for good. Personally i dont think that a game or a movie is enough of a influence for someone to go commit a crime, at least for me. I don't watch a horror fick nd immediately want to butcher someone with a pitch fork. Edit: wow n a z i is censored :\|
Tueuse Beaute Amarr	Posted - 2007.10.31 21:37:00 - [24] Ive played the GTA3 series of games, Ive played several "War FPS" shooters over the years and I have never wanted to go out in RL and commit the same acts. My parents taught me early the difference between right and wrong, back when spanking a child in public wasnt such a horror. Look back through history... it is full of violence and "atrocious" acts that were visible to everyone and people dealt with them and moved on. Today we are moving to a point where any form of violence is sheltered from our children, from punishment methods to visible acts of others. However it is embedded in out genetic makeup. We lived as warrior societies for so long it will take centuries to breed it out of us. We thirst for it on a primal level, that is why these type of games, movies, music, entertainment in all its forms continues to be popular. Should it be kept from children?? Yes, but that doesnt excuse a parent from teaching their child about the consequences of violence and the "right and wrong" of it. Should there be a place for this type of thing in our society? There always will be, even if outlawed it will still occur. I imagine even with the Ban on the game in england that there are still many people in the country playing it today. Where there is a will, there is a way. We can not deny what we are. We will always crave the violence. And yes, as an American I also find it humorous that we embrace violence more easily than we do sexuality in our media.
LegendaryTyr Caldari Greenspring	Posted - 2007.10.31 22:18:00 - [25] Originally by: Tueuse Beaute ...as an American I also find it humorous that we embrace violence more easily than we do sexuality in our media. Maybe that is an effort to control the population. Media encourages us to kill people rather than to potentially make more people Combat Your Wrath Cruise Missile hits ******* (Crow), doing 505.6 damage.

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