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Hardigeen	Posted - 2007.10.31 21:42:00 - [1] Edited by: Hardigeen on 31/10/2007 21:46:01 Currently in Jita, one NPC alt (Miss Aurora) is buying out all Dysprosium from suppliers. He is then reselling it at 100-150% profit. Due to the very low supply (rare moon mineral), this character pretty much has a full monopoly on this material very important for tech 2 production, gouging tech 2 producers. My question is simple: Is this against the rules? In real life, there are laws against the companies that try to monopolize like this. If not against the rules, then how is this going to affect the tech 2 production in game? Discus. EDIT: This character is the only character with sell orders in all EVE !?
Yarden Tajj Lost Industries	Posted - 2007.10.31 21:47:00 - [2] Is this against the rules? No it's not against the rules it's market 'pvp'. how is this going to affect the tech 2 production in game? Prices will rise until suppliers meet the demand.
Ezoran DuBlaidd Rivers Enterprises Power Corrupts Industry's	Posted - 2007.10.31 21:55:00 - [3] Originally by: Hardigeen Edited by: Hardigeen on 31/10/2007 21:47:37 Edited by: Hardigeen on 31/10/2007 21:46:01 Currently in Jita, one NPC alt (Miss Aurora) i see your problem. the npc alt that's doing the buying/reselling must be a new advancement on the AI.
Selko Embries QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2007.10.31 21:56:00 - [4] You want it beat, then his buy orders.
Hardigeen	Posted - 2007.10.31 22:00:00 - [5] Edited by: Hardigeen on 31/10/2007 22:00:42 Originally by: Yarden Tajj Is this against the rules? No it's not against the rules it's market 'pvp'. how is this going to affect the tech 2 production in game? Prices will rise until suppliers meet the demand. Fair enough, but I'm not sure that demand/supplie ratio will really work in this case if he is artificialy controling the price. All of the 500k Dysprosium worth 11 bil isk on the market is in his control. I'm not sure that the price in this case will be controled by the natural demand vs supplie market mechanics. He is the only one controling the price.
Daeva Vios PhaseShifter Technologies	Posted - 2007.10.31 22:03:00 - [6] This is not real life. There are no rules against this. Price gouging is going to happen until someone in the area figures out how to beat this person. Until then...go elsewhere for your dysprosium if you can't deal with it.
Yarden Tajj Lost Industries	Posted - 2007.10.31 22:06:00 - [7] Originally by: Hardigeen Edited by: Hardigeen on 31/10/2007 22:00:42 Originally by: Yarden Tajj Is this against the rules? No it's not against the rules it's market 'pvp'. how is this going to affect the tech 2 production in game? Prices will rise until suppliers meet the demand. Fair enough, but I'm not sure that demand/supplie ratio will really work in this case if he is artificialy controling the price. All of the 500k Dysprosium worth 11 bil isk on the market is in his control. I'm not sure that the price in this case will be controled by the natural demand vs supplie market mechanics. He is the only one controling the price. Then he must be really rich and knows what he's doing.
Hardigeen	Posted - 2007.10.31 22:06:00 - [8] Originally by: Daeva Vios This is not real life. There are no rules against this. Price gouging is going to happen until someone in the area figures out how to beat this person. Until then...go elsewhere for your dysprosium if you can't deal with it. Like where? This is Jita I'm talking about, there is no other place to buy Dysprosium, like I said a very important mineral for tech 2 production. I have two choices, pay whatever he thinks I should pay, or stop producing.
Yarden Tajj Lost Industries	Posted - 2007.10.31 22:09:00 - [9] The market is bigger then jita. Not everybody sells their goods there I for one try to avoid going there at all.
Kylar Renpurs Dusk Blade	Posted - 2007.10.31 22:11:00 - [10] Quote: Fair enough, but I'm not sure that demand/supplie ratio will really work in this case if he is artificialy controling the price. All of the 500k Dysprosium worth 11 bil isk on the market is in his control. I'm not sure that the price in this case will be controled by the natural demand vs supplie market mechanics. He is the only one controling the price. Congratulations, you've witnessed someone cornering a market. In RL, this is illegal iirc, I have no source for this tho. In EVE it's not. Move along people, nothing to see here. Improve Market Competition!
Hardigeen	Posted - 2007.10.31 22:11:00 - [11] Originally by: Yarden Tajj The market is bigger then jita. Not everybody sells their goods there I for one try to avoid going there at all. If there was another place in EVE to buy Dysprosium, I would go there and buy it. Its not like I didnt fly all over high sec and tried to find some Dysprosium to buy. This guy owns ALL of it and he has a total monopoly. Thats why I posted here.
Hardigeen	Posted - 2007.10.31 22:14:00 - [12] Edited by: Hardigeen on 31/10/2007 22:14:39 Originally by: Kylar Renpurs Quote: Fair enough, but I'm not sure that demand/supplie ratio will really work in this case if he is artificialy controling the price. All of the 500k Dysprosium worth 11 bil isk on the market is in his control. I'm not sure that the price in this case will be controled by the natural demand vs supplie market mechanics. He is the only one controling the price. Congratulations, you've witnessed someone cornering a market. In RL, this is illegal iirc, I have no source for this tho. In EVE it's not. Move along people, nothing to see here. True, but if someone is capable of taking a control of one item/material then CCP should seriously consider increasing the available amount in game.
Yarden Tajj Lost Industries	Posted - 2007.10.31 22:15:00 - [13] Originally by: Hardigeen Originally by: Yarden Tajj The market is bigger then jita. Not everybody sells their goods there I for one try to avoid going there at all. If there was another place in EVE to buy Dysprosium, I would go there and buy it. Its not like I didnt fly all over high sec and tried to find some Dysprosium to buy. This guy owns ALL of it and he has a total monopoly. Thats why I posted here. Well then you got a problem and need to be a bit more creative and think outside the (market) box.
Hardigeen	Posted - 2007.10.31 22:16:00 - [14] Originally by: Yarden Tajj Originally by: Hardigeen Originally by: Yarden Tajj The market is bigger then jita. Not everybody sells their goods there I for one try to avoid going there at all. If there was another place in EVE to buy Dysprosium, I would go there and buy it. Its not like I didnt fly all over high sec and tried to find some Dysprosium to buy. This guy owns ALL of it and he has a total monopoly. Thats why I posted here. Well then you got a problem and need to be a bit more creative and think outside the (market) box. Like what?
Yarden Tajj Lost Industries	Posted - 2007.10.31 22:20:00 - [15] Originally by: Hardigeen Originally by: Yarden Tajj Originally by: Hardigeen Originally by: Yarden Tajj The market is bigger then jita. Not everybody sells their goods there I for one try to avoid going there at all. If there was another place in EVE to buy Dysprosium, I would go there and buy it. Its not like I didnt fly all over high sec and tried to find some Dysprosium to buy. This guy owns ALL of it and he has a total monopoly. Thats why I posted here. Well then you got a problem and need to be a bit more creative and think outside the (market) box. not wanting to be rude but engage your brain. Like what?
Shadarles	Posted - 2007.10.31 22:22:00 - [16] Originally by: Hardigeen Originally by: Yarden Tajj Originally by: Hardigeen Originally by: Yarden Tajj The market is bigger then jita. Not everybody sells their goods there I for one try to avoid going there at all. If there was another place in EVE to buy Dysprosium, I would go there and buy it. Its not like I didnt fly all over high sec and tried to find some Dysprosium to buy. This guy owns ALL of it and he has a total monopoly. Thats why I posted here. Well then you got a problem and need to be a bit more creative and think outside the (market) box. Like what? Either 1) he doesn't have as good a monopoly on this as you think or 2) you are incredibly stupid for telling people and not buying it all out yourself and taking the monopoly. If you're too poor for 2 then that's your own problem and you can pay his prices. Deal with it. I happen to know it isn't as easy for him to maintain his monopoly as you think it is though.
Hardigeen	Posted - 2007.10.31 22:26:00 - [17] Originally by: Yarden Tajj Originally by: Hardigeen Originally by: Yarden Tajj Originally by: Hardigeen Originally by: Yarden Tajj The market is bigger then jita. Not everybody sells their goods there I for one try to avoid going there at all. If there was another place in EVE to buy Dysprosium, I would go there and buy it. Its not like I didnt fly all over high sec and tried to find some Dysprosium to buy. This guy owns ALL of it and he has a total monopoly. Thats why I posted here. Well then you got a problem and need to be a bit more creative and think outside the (market) box. not wanting to be rude but engage your brain. Like what? I thought maybe you can give me a good advice, but now I see you are in this thread to troll. Thanks for participating in this discussion.
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.10.31 22:29:00 - [18] Originally by: Hardigeen I thought maybe you can give me a good advice, but now I see you are in this thread to troll. Thanks for participating in this discussion. Honestly there are any number of ways to get around the problem you stated... the fact that you can't figure them out does not mean there aren't solutions. But it doesn't help others to babysit you and explain every last thing you should do. They may as well just buy this out themselves and gouge you even worse. Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Hardigeen	Posted - 2007.10.31 22:30:00 - [19] Edited by: Hardigeen on 31/10/2007 22:31:17 Originally by: Shadarle Originally by: Hardigeen I thought maybe you can give me a good advice, but now I see you are in this thread to troll. Thanks for participating in this discussion. Honestly there are any number of ways to get around the problem you stated... the fact that you can't figure them out does not mean there aren't solutions. But it doesn't help others to babysit you and explain every last thing you should do. They may as well just buy this out themselves and gouge you even worse. Yet another alt? Please go troll somewhere else.
Yarden Tajj Lost Industries	Posted - 2007.10.31 22:34:00 - [20] Originally by: Hardigeen Edited by: Hardigeen on 31/10/2007 22:31:17 Originally by: Shadarle Originally by: Hardigeen I thought maybe you can give me a good advice, but now I see you are in this thread to troll. Thanks for participating in this discussion. Honestly there are any number of ways to get around the problem you stated... the fact that you can't figure them out does not mean there aren't solutions. But it doesn't help others to babysit you and explain every last thing you should do. They may as well just buy this out themselves and gouge you even worse. Yet another alt? Please go troll somewhere else. says the alt
Shadarles	Posted - 2007.10.31 22:40:00 - [21] Edited by: Shadarles on 31/10/2007 22:40:23 Originally by: Hardigeen Edited by: Hardigeen on 31/10/2007 22:31:17 Originally by: Shadarle Originally by: Hardigeen I thought maybe you can give me a good advice, but now I see you are in this thread to troll. Thanks for participating in this discussion. Honestly there are any number of ways to get around the problem you stated... the fact that you can't figure them out does not mean there aren't solutions. But it doesn't help others to babysit you and explain every last thing you should do. They may as well just buy this out themselves and gouge you even worse. Yet another alt? Please go troll somewhere else. This just shows how little experience you have on these forums if you think I'm an "alt". This thread of yours is just a major whine that you don't like someone playing the market far better than you are. EDIT> Ok, these forums are freaking ****ing me off with it changing my posting character every other post. This character is indeed an alt, but I think everyone knows who it is nonetheless.
Dr Slurm General Commodities	Posted - 2007.10.31 22:42:00 - [22] Originally by: Hardigeen Edited by: Hardigeen on 31/10/2007 21:47:37 Edited by: Hardigeen on 31/10/2007 21:46:01 Currently in Jita, one NPC alt (Miss Aurora) is buying out all Dysprosium from suppliers. He is then reselling it at 100-150% profit. Due to the very low supply (rare moon mineral), this character pretty much has a full monopoly on this material very important for tech 2 production, gouging tech 2 producers. My question is simple: Is this against the rules? In real life, there are laws against the companies that try to monopolize like this. If not against the rules, then how is this going to affect the tech 2 production in game? Discus. EDIT: This character is the only character with sell orders in all EVE !? Do you even know what a buy order is? It's better then Quafe!
SonOfAGhost Minmatar Munitions and Tactical Assets Repository Zzz	Posted - 2007.10.31 22:49:00 - [23] I would humbly suggest that perhaps trading isn't for you as you seem to be avoiding thinking for yourself. Like the other replies, I'm not going to hold your hand either, but I'll at least tell you where your problem exists. Stop thinking in terms of you need dysprosium (or anything else on the market). You don't. Ever. My wife has the same problem distinguishing between want and need in RL Now look at the state of the dysprosium market in whatever region(s) you want to work in and try to come up with a way to make money off it. Keep in mind that there will be more than one answer, choose the one that suits you best. Also keep in mind the primary and secondary sources of ALL profits in Eve: people want (but don't need) shiny toys, people are lazy (not necessarily in that order). Who needs the Nikkei when there's EBay? Lag? GTFOOJ!
Hardigeen	Posted - 2007.10.31 22:54:00 - [24] Originally by: SonOfAGhost I would humbly suggest that perhaps trading isn't for you as you seem to be avoiding thinking for yourself. Like the other replies, I'm not going to hold your hand either, but I'll at least tell you where your problem exists. Stop thinking in terms of you need dysprosium (or anything else on the market). You don't. Ever. My wife has the same problem distinguishing between want and need in RL Now look at the state of the dysprosium market in whatever region(s) you want to work in and try to come up with a way to make money off it. Keep in mind that there will be more than one answer, choose the one that suits you best. Also keep in mind the primary and secondary sources of ALL profits in Eve: people want (but don't need) shiny toys, people are lazy (not necessarily in that order). I dont trade, I build and to build I need to buy material I dont have/produce. There is no Dysposium market, one person owns it all and there is only one place you can buy it. I dont have a problem to pay for it, but dont like being 100% gouged everytime I need some to build. He is artificialy increasing the price 100% per week.
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.10.31 22:56:00 - [25] Originally by: Hardigeen Originally by: SonOfAGhost I would humbly suggest that perhaps trading isn't for you as you seem to be avoiding thinking for yourself. Like the other replies, I'm not going to hold your hand either, but I'll at least tell you where your problem exists. Stop thinking in terms of you need dysprosium (or anything else on the market). You don't. Ever. My wife has the same problem distinguishing between want and need in RL Now look at the state of the dysprosium market in whatever region(s) you want to work in and try to come up with a way to make money off it. Keep in mind that there will be more than one answer, choose the one that suits you best. Also keep in mind the primary and secondary sources of ALL profits in Eve: people want (but don't need) shiny toys, people are lazy (not necessarily in that order). I dont trade, I build and to build I need to buy material I dont have/produce. There is no Dysposium market, one person owns it all and there is only one place you can buy it. I dont have a problem to pay for it, but dont like being 100% gouged everytime I need some to build. He is artificialy increasing the price 100% per week. There really needs to be a "cry more" emoticon... Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Argenton Sayvers	Posted - 2007.10.31 23:30:00 - [26] You all should be glad i bought those goddamn mothership BPOs a while ago, or this forum would crash from all those "waaaah someone bought item XXX and is reselling for 500% markup" posts. By the way, since pricefixing is illegal IRL: wtb OIL, $20 per barrel.
Ezoran DuBlaidd Rivers Enterprises Power Corrupts Industry's	Posted - 2007.10.31 23:31:00 - [27] now now, this gent has a legitimate complaint and problem. i believe the proper way for him to address this is to evemail sirmolle and the mittani and ask them both to help him conquer this market. i know they'd be very happy to lend a hand. that's sirmolle the mittani i think i spellededed them right mad props for wanting to bring it! get the help you need and kick ass now~!@!~!@!@!@ those damned npc traders.
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.10.31 23:35:00 - [28] Price gouging is not illegal in RL unless it is on an "essential" item. You are fully allowed to gouge on any item that is not required for survival in most cases, unless special laws have been written regarding that item or item class. If it were illegal to gouge then a lot of markets would disappear very quickly. Price-fixing, on the other hand, is illegal. You are now allowed to collude with other companies to agree on a price to charge for an item and to not lower your prices below this point. This is not what is going on here though. Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Hardigeen	Posted - 2007.10.31 23:49:00 - [29] Edited by: Hardigeen on 31/10/2007 23:49:45 Originally by: Shadarle Price gouging is not illegal in RL unless it is on an "essential" item. You are fully allowed to gouge on any item that is not required for survival in most cases, unless special laws have been written regarding that item or item class. If it were illegal to gouge then a lot of markets would disappear very quickly. Price-fixing, on the other hand, is illegal. You are now allowed to collude with other companies to agree on a price to charge for an item and to not lower your prices below this point. This is not what is going on here though. Well I'm glad you gave up trolling and you came up with a valid point for this discussion. Question is, what is an "essential" item in RL or in this game? If no tech 2 item can be produced without Dysprosium, is that an "essential" material then? I don't understand why do you think that gouging the price of Dysporsium is ok, eventually everyone will have to pay more for tech 2 items including you while this guy is getting rich? Unless its in your personal interest....
Argenton Sayvers	Posted - 2007.10.31 23:52:00 - [30] Look, give it up. If you keep annoying us, we hire MC to replace every uncooperative moon miner's dysprosium POS with a large faction deathstar. Then youd have to sing on TS for your Dysprosium.
Dr Slurm General Commodities	Posted - 2007.10.31 23:58:00 - [31] Originally by: Hardigeen Edited by: Hardigeen on 31/10/2007 23:49:45 Originally by: Shadarle Price gouging is not illegal in RL unless it is on an "essential" item. You are fully allowed to gouge on any item that is not required for survival in most cases, unless special laws have been written regarding that item or item class. If it were illegal to gouge then a lot of markets would disappear very quickly. Price-fixing, on the other hand, is illegal. You are now allowed to collude with other companies to agree on a price to charge for an item and to not lower your prices below this point. This is not what is going on here though. Well I'm glad you gave up trolling and you came up with a valid point for this discussion. Question is, what is an "essential" item in RL or in this game? If no tech 2 item can be produced without Dysprosium, is that an "essential" material then? I don't understand why do you think that gouging the price of Dysporsium is ok, eventually everyone will have to pay more for tech 2 items including you while this guy is getting rich? Unless its in your personal interest.... If people are willing to pay a high price for something then that is what it is worth. If you don't want to pay for it then don't buy it. There is obviously enough other people purchasing it that its an acceptable price. This is market PvP at its finest and you lost. Pretty simple. Seriously do you know what a buy order is? It's better then Quafe!
Hardigeen	Posted - 2007.11.01 00:02:00 - [32] Originally by: Dr Slurm Originally by: Hardigeen Edited by: Hardigeen on 31/10/2007 23:49:45 Originally by: Shadarle Price gouging is not illegal in RL unless it is on an "essential" item. You are fully allowed to gouge on any item that is not required for survival in most cases, unless special laws have been written regarding that item or item class. If it were illegal to gouge then a lot of markets would disappear very quickly. Price-fixing, on the other hand, is illegal. You are now allowed to collude with other companies to agree on a price to charge for an item and to not lower your prices below this point. This is not what is going on here though. Well I'm glad you gave up trolling and you came up with a valid point for this discussion. Question is, what is an "essential" item in RL or in this game? If no tech 2 item can be produced without Dysprosium, is that an "essential" material then? I don't understand why do you think that gouging the price of Dysporsium is ok, eventually everyone will have to pay more for tech 2 items including you while this guy is getting rich? Unless its in your personal interest.... If people are willing to pay a high price for something then that is what it is worth. If you don't want to pay for it then don't buy it. There is obviously enough other people purchasing it that its an acceptable price. This is market PvP at its finest and you lost. Pretty simple. Seriously do you know what a buy order is? Correct. But, if there is only one place/person to buy from then you MUST pay what he is asking for it. Like I said, you cant build 1 single tech 2 item without Dysprosium. IMO this situation is worst then farmers camping Cosmos complexes for decryptors and skillbooks.
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.11.01 00:10:00 - [33] Originally by: Hardigeen But, if there is only one place/person to buy from You clearly do not understand the market at all. Originally by: Hardigeen Question is, what is an "essential" item in RL or in this game? It doesn't matter! Get it through your head that there are no laws in this game regarding price gouging/fixing at all. You can gouge and fix all you want. Period. The reason is that there is absolutely no way to completely corner a market for too long. Anyone who tries can do decently for a short period of time, but eventually the supply will greatly out-pace the demand to the point that the price fixing is not sustainable. You simply do not understand how the market works nor the difference between real life and the game in relation to laws. If he is operating a monopoly and price gouging the hell out of you then he is doing a GOOD job, that means he is winning and doing better than you. In the game world he is playing very smart and you are not as you're paying his price. You have means to avoid this which have been mentioned over and over and you ignore it. This thread is a perfect example of why I have always said that stupid people are the best source of income for the intelligent. Without stupid and lazy people the intelligent people wouldn't have any means of making easy money. Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Hardigeen	Posted - 2007.11.01 00:13:00 - [34] Originally by: Shadarle Originally by: Hardigeen But, if there is only one place/person to buy from You clearly do not understand the market at all. Originally by: Hardigeen Question is, what is an "essential" item in RL or in this game? It doesn't matter! Get it through your head that there are no laws in this game regarding price gouging/fixing at all. You can gouge and fix all you want. Period. The reason is that there is absolutely no way to completely corner a market for too long. Anyone who tries can do decently for a short period of time, but eventually the supply will greatly out-pace the demand to the point that the price fixing is not sustainable. You simply do not understand how the market works nor the difference between real life and the game in relation to laws. If he is operating a monopoly and price gouging the hell out of you then he is doing a GOOD job, that means he is winning and doing better than you. In the game world he is playing very smart and you are not as you're paying his price. You have means to avoid this which have been mentioned over and over and you ignore it. This thread is a perfect example of why I have always said that stupid people are the best source of income for the intelligent. Without stupid and lazy people the intelligent people wouldn't have any means of making easy money. ....and here you go back to being a troll.
Dr Slurm General Commodities	Posted - 2007.11.01 00:15:00 - [35] This is definitely a yp. Fortunately I'm relatively sure CCP has the good sense not to do anything about it. It's better then Quafe!
Hardigeen	Posted - 2007.11.01 00:18:00 - [36] If one person can corner the market, and he is, then CCP should increase the supply. Simple as that.
Dr Slurm General Commodities	Posted - 2007.11.01 00:19:00 - [37] Originally by: Hardigeen If one person can corner the market, and he is, then CCP should increase the supply. Simple as that. No. It's better then Quafe!
Argenton Sayvers	Posted - 2007.11.01 00:25:00 - [38] Originally by: Hardigeen then CCP should increase the supply. Simple as that. Hehe sneaky way to lobby for a 0.0 Moon mining nerf. You arent as clueless as you appear, after all.
Hexxx Minmatar	Posted - 2007.11.01 00:29:00 - [39] Originally by: Hardigeen Edited by: Hardigeen on 31/10/2007 21:47:37 Edited by: Hardigeen on 31/10/2007 21:46:01 Currently in Jita, one NPC alt (Miss Aurora) is buying out all Dysprosium from suppliers. He is then reselling it at 100-150% profit. Due to the very low supply (rare moon mineral), this character pretty much has a full monopoly on this material very important for tech 2 production, gouging tech 2 producers. My question is simple: Is this against the rules? In real life, there are laws against the companies that try to monopolize like this. If not against the rules, then how is this going to affect the tech 2 production in game? Discus. EDIT: This character is the only character with sell orders in all EVE !? Put up a buy order priced above his. This is incredibly basic and shouldn't have to be explained. Consulting, IPO Template, and Stock/Bond definitions.
Kylar Renpurs Dusk Blade	Posted - 2007.11.01 00:37:00 - [40] Quote: True, but if someone is capable of taking a control of one item/material then CCP should seriously consider increasing the available amount in game. No. What about officer mods? Data Interfaces? There are a lot of people with a large combined wealth, any one of them could take control of EVE's many 'rare' markets. Scarcity means more erratic prices, and this is caused by market manipulation. One player can take control of one particular type of those and artificially raise prices too, I dont see complaints about 1.5 billion estamel's modified XL boosters tho, or 20 bil estamels invulnerability fields. Further, try this too Improve Market Competition!
Hardigeen	Posted - 2007.11.01 00:46:00 - [41] Edited by: Hardigeen on 01/11/2007 00:46:11 Originally by: Kylar Renpurs Quote: True, but if someone is capable of taking a control of one item/material then CCP should seriously consider increasing the available amount in game. No. What about officer mods? Data Interfaces? There are a lot of people with a large combined wealth, any one of them could take control of EVE's many 'rare' markets. Scarcity means more erratic prices, and this is caused by market manipulation. One player can take control of one particular type of those and artificially raise prices too, I dont see complaints about 1.5 billion estamel's modified XL boosters tho, or 20 bil estamels invulnerability fields. Further, try this too Those items are not essential for game balance. Dysprosium is important as for example Tritanium. Its one of the basic blocks in tech 2 production process. Thats why price stability is a very important issue. You are comparing apples and oranges.
Dr Slurm General Commodities	Posted - 2007.11.01 00:47:00 - [42] Originally by: Hexxx Originally by: Hardigeen stuff Put up a buy order priced above his. This is incredibly basic and shouldn't have to be explained. The OP apparently doesn't know what buy orders are or is completely unwilling to use them... It's better then Quafe!
Hardigeen	Posted - 2007.11.01 00:51:00 - [43] Edited by: Hardigeen on 01/11/2007 00:54:24 Originally by: Hexxx Originally by: Hardigeen Edited by: Hardigeen on 31/10/2007 21:47:37 Edited by: Hardigeen on 31/10/2007 21:46:01 Currently in Jita, one NPC alt (Miss Aurora) is buying out all Dysprosium from suppliers. He is then reselling it at 100-150% profit. Due to the very low supply (rare moon mineral), this character pretty much has a full monopoly on this material very important for tech 2 production, gouging tech 2 producers. My question is simple: Is this against the rules? In real life, there are laws against the companies that try to monopolize like this. If not against the rules, then how is this going to affect the tech 2 production in game? Discus. EDIT: This character is the only character with sell orders in all EVE !? Put up a buy order priced above his. This is incredibly basic and shouldn't have to be explained. The way he operates, he will buyout EVERYONE. The idea is to make sure no1 has any Dysprosium to sell but him and he can do that due to the low supply of this material in game. There are many, many buy orders but simply no1 is fullfilling them. Why would they, when he wil buy it all at whatever SELL price producers try to sell? Why would someone sell for 19k if they can setup a sell order for 23k and he buys it all?
Kylar Renpurs Dusk Blade	Posted - 2007.11.01 00:54:00 - [44] Quote: Those items are not essential for game balance .... Its one of the basic blocks in tech 2 production process. Tech 2 is not essential for game balance, there's plenty of alternatives, especially with faction LP shops out there now. And more often than not I can achieve a better fit with just named items. What you've identified is that the item in question is a high demand, low volume item. There's a lot of them like it in eve, and thus, it's going to suffer price manipulation. If whoever is manipulating this keeps it up, demand will drop, and the volume will begin to more adequately match the supply, causing the price to drop over time. Improve Market Competition!
Hardigeen	Posted - 2007.11.01 01:00:00 - [45] Edited by: Hardigeen on 01/11/2007 01:00:27 Originally by: Kylar Renpurs Quote: Those items are not essential for game balance .... Its one of the basic blocks in tech 2 production process. Tech 2 is not essential for game balance, there's plenty of alternatives, especially with faction LP shops out there now. And more often than not I can achieve a better fit with just named items. What you've identified is that the item in question is a high demand, low volume item. There's a lot of them like it in eve, and thus, it's going to suffer price manipulation. If whoever is manipulating this keeps it up, demand will drop, and the volume will begin to more adequately match the supply, causing the price to drop over time. Maybe you should look at the price of Dysprosium in the last 3-6 months. Maybe you will understand how is he manipulating the price and where is the price going. If he has 11 bil invested in this one single material then he has monopoly for quiet some time and I dont think that will change unless CCP looks into it.
Amicus Pauperi ASGARD SECURITY SHIPPING PRODUCTION SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.01 01:04:00 - [46] Originally by: Hardigeen The way he operates, he will buyout EVERYONE. The idea is to make sure no1 has any Dysprosium to sell but him and he can do that due to the low supply of this material in game. There are many, many buy orders but simply no1 is fullfilling them. Why would they, when he wil buy it all at whatever SELL price producers try to sell? Why would someone sell for 19k if they can setup a sell order for 23k and he buys it all? Since you're either too lazy or too dumb to think your way through your problem, let me hold your hand and walk you through. Buy up Atmospheric Gas. Buy up Evaporites. React. If you're losing money from reacting Dysprosium at those high prices... then don't react Dysprosium! If you're complaining because your profits have disappeared, then guess what, shut up and adapt. Now, if a lot of people who react Dysprosium switch to something else, demand drops, price drops, and the manipulator gets stuck with a large inventory of Dysprosium that won't move. Get smart, shut up, and move back to the Stations and Starbases Forum. If you don't know what to do after everything we've told you then you should move into a different line of work. Economic PvP - Cornering Jita 4-4
Kylar Renpurs Dusk Blade	Posted - 2007.11.01 01:07:00 - [47] Quote: Maybe you should look at the price of Dysprosium in the last 3-6 months. Maybe you will understand how is he manipulating the price and where is the price going. If he has 11 bil invested in this one single material then he has monopoly for quiet some time and I dont think that will change unless CCP looks into it. Maybe you should look at the price of Zydrine. Point is nothing ever stays the same, regardless of how it gets there. Improve Market Competition!
Priest Valour Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2007.11.01 01:08:00 - [48] Originally by: Hardigeen Edited by: Hardigeen on 01/11/2007 00:54:24 Originally by: Hexxx Originally by: Hardigeen Edited by: Hardigeen on 31/10/2007 21:47:37 Edited by: Hardigeen on 31/10/2007 21:46:01 Currently in Jita, one NPC alt (Miss Aurora) is buying out all Dysprosium from suppliers. He is then reselling it at 100-150% profit. Due to the very low supply (rare moon mineral), this character pretty much has a full monopoly on this material very important for tech 2 production, gouging tech 2 producers. My question is simple: Is this against the rules? In real life, there are laws against the companies that try to monopolize like this. If not against the rules, then how is this going to affect the tech 2 production in game? Discus. EDIT: This character is the only character with sell orders in all EVE !? Put up a buy order priced above his. This is incredibly basic and shouldn't have to be explained. The way he operates, he will buyout EVERYONE. The idea is to make sure no1 has any Dysprosium to sell but him and he can do that due to the low supply of this material in game. There are many, many buy orders but simply no1 is fullfilling them. Why would they, when he wil buy it all at whatever SELL price producers try to sell? Why would someone sell for 19k if they can setup a sell order for 23k and he buys it all? Um well why don't you buy it before he does, or is he omnipresent ?
Hardigeen	Posted - 2007.11.01 01:11:00 - [49] Originally by: Kylar Renpurs Quote: Maybe you should look at the price of Dysprosium in the last 3-6 months. Maybe you will understand how is he manipulating the price and where is the price going. If he has 11 bil invested in this one single material then he has monopoly for quiet some time and I dont think that will change unless CCP looks into it. Maybe you should look at the price of Zydrine. Point is nothing ever stays the same, regardless of how it gets there. Ok so what do you think will happen with the price of Dysprosium after the next patch and introduction of tech 2 battleships? Demand for tech 2 components and Dysprosium as a basic building block will increase 5, maybe 10 times. Do you see where will that take the price of Dysprosium if 1 guy controls all of it?
Hardigeen	Posted - 2007.11.01 01:13:00 - [50] Originally by: Amicus Pauperi Originally by: Hardigeen The way he operates, he will buyout EVERYONE. The idea is to make sure no1 has any Dysprosium to sell but him and he can do that due to the low supply of this material in game. There are many, many buy orders but simply no1 is fullfilling them. Why would they, when he wil buy it all at whatever SELL price producers try to sell? Why would someone sell for 19k if they can setup a sell order for 23k and he buys it all? Since you're either too lazy or too dumb to think your way through your problem, let me hold your hand and walk you through. Buy up Atmospheric Gas. Buy up Evaporites. React. If you're losing money from reacting Dysprosium at those high prices... then don't react Dysprosium! If you're complaining because your profits have disappeared, then guess what, shut up and adapt. Now, if a lot of people who react Dysprosium switch to something else, demand drops, price drops, and the manipulator gets stuck with a large inventory of Dysprosium that won't move. Get smart, shut up, and move back to the Stations and Starbases Forum. If you don't know what to do after everything we've told you then you should move into a different line of work. Die troll...
Kylar Renpurs Dusk Blade	Posted - 2007.11.01 01:33:00 - [51] Edited by: Kylar Renpurs on 01/11/2007 01:35:41 Edited by: Kylar Renpurs on 01/11/2007 01:33:52 Quote: Ok so what do you think will happen with the price of Dysprosium after the next patch and introduction of tech 2 battleships? Demand for tech 2 components and Dysprosium as a basic building block will increase 5, maybe 10 times. Do you see where will that take the price of Dysprosium if 1 guy controls all of it? Prices will rise, I'll buy the components I require and instead of spending 2 bil to make 800 mil a month, I'll spend 4 bil to make 800mil a month. EDIT: And now I'm on lunch, I've looked at the dyspo price. It's doubled over a year. So? No skin off my back. Oh, and I'd reconsider the 'Die troll' comment to a guy who spells out the situation pretty simply for you. Improve Market Competition!
Argenton Sayvers	Posted - 2007.11.01 01:37:00 - [52] Originally by: Hardigeen Maybe you should look at the price of Dysprosium in the last 3-6 months. Maybe you will understand how is he manipulating the price and where is the price going. If he has 11 bil invested in this one single material then he has monopoly for quiet some time and I dont think that will change unless CCP looks into it. Do you wish for Dysprosium? PS: You managed to generate a 2 page thread with nothing but nonsense. Congratulations on an epic market discussion troll
Amicus Pauperi ASGARD SECURITY SHIPPING PRODUCTION SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.01 01:38:00 - [53] Originally by: Hardigeen Originally by: Amicus Pauperi Originally by: Hardigeen The way he operates, he will buyout EVERYONE. The idea is to make sure no1 has any Dysprosium to sell but him and he can do that due to the low supply of this material in game. There are many, many buy orders but simply no1 is fullfilling them. Why would they, when he wil buy it all at whatever SELL price producers try to sell? Why would someone sell for 19k if they can setup a sell order for 23k and he buys it all? Since you're either too lazy or too dumb to think your way through your problem, let me hold your hand and walk you through. Buy up Atmospheric Gas. Buy up Evaporites. React. If you're losing money from reacting Dysprosium at those high prices... then don't react Dysprosium! If you're complaining because your profits have disappeared, then guess what, shut up and adapt. Now, if a lot of people who react Dysprosium switch to something else, demand drops, price drops, and the manipulator gets stuck with a large inventory of Dysprosium that won't move. Get smart, shut up, and move back to the Stations and Starbases Forum. If you don't know what to do after everything we've told you then you should move into a different line of work. Die troll... Says the guy who won't even post with his main. Let loose of your anger/frustration/emotions and you'll find that your solution has been given to you already. Economic PvP - Cornering Jita 4-4
Ezoran DuBlaidd Rivers Enterprises Power Corrupts Industry's	Posted - 2007.11.01 01:40:00 - [54] Originally by: Hardigeen Originally by: Amicus Pauperi Originally by: Hardigeen The way he operates, he will buyout EVERYONE. The idea is to make sure no1 has any Dysprosium to sell but him and he can do that due to the low supply of this material in game. There are many, many buy orders but simply no1 is fullfilling them. Why would they, when he wil buy it all at whatever SELL price producers try to sell? Why would someone sell for 19k if they can setup a sell order for 23k and he buys it all? Since you're either too lazy or too dumb to think your way through your problem, let me hold your hand and walk you through. Buy up Atmospheric Gas. Buy up Evaporites. React. If you're losing money from reacting Dysprosium at those high prices... then don't react Dysprosium! If you're complaining because your profits have disappeared, then guess what, shut up and adapt. Now, if a lot of people who react Dysprosium switch to something else, demand drops, price drops, and the manipulator gets stuck with a large inventory of Dysprosium that won't move. Get smart, shut up, and move back to the Stations and Starbases Forum. If you don't know what to do after everything we've told you then you should move into a different line of work. Die troll... this thread is like reading a dumbed-down version of caod. there. i said it.
Hardigeen	Posted - 2007.11.01 01:42:00 - [55] Originally by: Kylar Renpurs Edited by: Kylar Renpurs on 01/11/2007 01:35:41 Edited by: Kylar Renpurs on 01/11/2007 01:33:52 Quote: Ok so what do you think will happen with the price of Dysprosium after the next patch and introduction of tech 2 battleships? Demand for tech 2 components and Dysprosium as a basic building block will increase 5, maybe 10 times. Do you see where will that take the price of Dysprosium if 1 guy controls all of it? Prices will rise, I'll buy the components I require and instead of spending 2 bil to make 800 mil a month, I'll spend 4 bil to make 800mil a month. EDIT: And now I'm on lunch, I've looked at the dyspo price. It's doubled over a year. So? No skin off my back. Oh, and I'd reconsider the 'Die troll' comment to a guy who spells out the situation pretty simply for you. Ofcourse not, you don't use it so you don't buy it and you couldn't care less. As for the troll,c alling people stupid, lazy or whatever is trolling and I really didn't bother reading other parts of his post.
Argenton Sayvers	Posted - 2007.11.01 01:42:00 - [56] Originally by: Ezoran DuBlaidd this thread is like reading a dumbed-down version of caod. there. i said it. OMG there are DEVS in PCI /tinfoil
Hardigeen	Posted - 2007.11.01 01:43:00 - [57] Originally by: Ezoran DuBlaidd Originally by: Hardigeen Originally by: Amicus Pauperi Originally by: Hardigeen The way he operates, he will buyout EVERYONE. The idea is to make sure no1 has any Dysprosium to sell but him and he can do that due to the low supply of this material in game. There are many, many buy orders but simply no1 is fullfilling them. Why would they, when he wil buy it all at whatever SELL price producers try to sell? Why would someone sell for 19k if they can setup a sell order for 23k and he buys it all? Since you're either too lazy or too dumb to think your way through your problem, let me hold your hand and walk you through. Buy up Atmospheric Gas. Buy up Evaporites. React. If you're losing money from reacting Dysprosium at those high prices... then don't react Dysprosium! If you're complaining because your profits have disappeared, then guess what, shut up and adapt. Now, if a lot of people who react Dysprosium switch to something else, demand drops, price drops, and the manipulator gets stuck with a large inventory of Dysprosium that won't move. Get smart, shut up, and move back to the Stations and Starbases Forum. If you don't know what to do after everything we've told you then you should move into a different line of work. Die troll... this thread is like reading a dumbed-down version of caod. there. i said it. So go back to it then...
Countess Xiao	Posted - 2007.11.01 01:46:00 - [58] Originally by: Hardigeen Originally by: Amicus Pauperi Originally by: Hardigeen The way he operates, he will buyout EVERYONE. The idea is to make sure no1 has any Dysprosium to sell but him and he can do that due to the low supply of this material in game. There are many, many buy orders but simply no1 is fullfilling them. Why would they, when he wil buy it all at whatever SELL price producers try to sell? Why would someone sell for 19k if they can setup a sell order for 23k and he buys it all? Since you're either too lazy or too dumb to think your way through your problem, let me hold your hand and walk you through. Buy up Atmospheric Gas. Buy up Evaporites. React. If you're losing money from reacting Dysprosium at those high prices... then don't react Dysprosium! If you're complaining because your profits have disappeared, then guess what, shut up and adapt. Now, if a lot of people who react Dysprosium switch to something else, demand drops, price drops, and the manipulator gets stuck with a large inventory of Dysprosium that won't move. Get smart, shut up, and move back to the Stations and Starbases Forum. If you don't know what to do after everything we've told you then you should move into a different line of work. Die troll... What you need to realise is that you come in here whining and moaning about a completely legitimate (and quite crafty) trading operation. You're begging others to solve your problem for you and you have such a tunneled vision about this that you cannot even begin use your mind to explore other options. Try thinking for yourself.
Hardigeen	Posted - 2007.11.01 01:54:00 - [59] Originally by: Taikun Originally by: Hardigeen if there is only one place/person to buy from then you MUST pay what he is asking for it. Like I said, you cant build 1 single tech 2 item without Dysprosium. IMO this situation is worst then farmers camping Cosmos complexes for decryptors and skillbooks. You have just been pwoned by market based PvP. Consider it 'gate camping'. Eventually they will move on to other pastures once they get sick of artificially supporting an untennable price floor. The market will corrrect itself. Taikun I don't have a problem with that as long as the game is the same for all. Its just not clear to me why would CCP introduce Invention to prevent tech 2 oligopoly, but then again market monopoly is ok? To me, thats the same.
Taikun Gallente Serenity Prime Praesidium Libertatis	Posted - 2007.11.01 01:59:00 - [60] Because you can't prevent it. A few weeks back soemone speculated on the Tritanium market and pushed the price of it up to 3.8 by gobbling up all the avaialabe sales in Jita 4-4. That is what you are facing. Someone market speculating. This guy was burned because the demand wouldn't support that price level. If the demand is enough to support your current min shortage then that is the new price and you should buy it and priuce your ships accordingly for your new input costs. Does it suck? Sure... instablity is crappy for manufacturers and consumers alike... but who knows, yo might be able to tag on an extra % returns on your prices as well if the market instability continues. In other words, you might make more money because somebody is playing the market.. Taikun ----------------------------------- For lack of a better word ladies and gentlemen... Greed is good.
Hardigeen	Posted - 2007.11.01 02:03:00 - [61] Originally by: Taikun Because you can't prevent it. A few weeks back soemone speculated on the Tritanium market and pushed the price of it up to 3.8 by gobbling up all the avaialabe sales in Jita 4-4. That is what you are facing. Someone market speculating. This guy was burned because the demand wouldn't support that price level. If the demand is enough to support your current min shortage then that is the new price and you should buy it and priuce your ships accordingly for your new input costs. Does it suck? Sure... instablity is crappy for manufacturers and consumers alike... but who knows, yo might be able to tag on an extra % returns on your prices as well if the market instability continues. In other words, you might make more money because somebody is playing the market.. Taikun Hmm , I'm not an expert in Tritanium but did't CCP introduce market cap to prevent price gouging?
Hanoi Hana Mitsubishi Group	Posted - 2007.11.01 02:05:00 - [62] Edited by: Hanoi Hana on 01/11/2007 02:06:09 The only person trolling this thread is Hardigeen. He constantly spurns advice, explanations, and intelligent conversation. Rather than to look for a rational discussion, I strongly suspect that he is here only to rile people up and get an emotional reaction. If I give him the benefit of the doubt on the issue, then the best I can say is that he is jealous of other people's money piles and doesn't want to work to earn his own. By the way, this is our home and not yours. Before you call "troll" against some of the most established traders in this forum and in EVE, you should take some time to take a look around the forum and get a feel for who the main people are and why their advice is to be taken more often than not. I think the problem may be that you just painted into a corner by your earlier denials of helpful information and now you can't own up to it. Here's some advice: Buy up a tenth of his stock of dysprosium when he drops prices again around 15 November, and wait for him to increase price again and then sell. What's that? It is a nice idea in theory, but you don't have the money to do that? Then let's punish the people who DID work hard to earn the money to now be able to enact such a plan. Hardigeen, after the thread has gone this far, what exactly do you need to know now about dysprosium? That might help unrederail this thread (again).
Argenton Sayvers	Posted - 2007.11.01 02:10:00 - [63] Edited by: Argenton Sayvers on 01/11/2007 02:14:14 I guess i say something constructive. In the rare case that you are actually a misguided noclue, and not an entertaining troll: You are mixing up 2 things that are entirely seperate: rarity of a good - and pricefixing / trading / providing liquidity to markets. You are like those t2 whiners who accused t2 BPO owners or resellers of gouging back when cerbs sold for 200m each. The very same people complained about having to wait 12 months for their 80m cerb they ordered from Naga. A trader CANNOT influence the price equilibrium at all. All he can do is either 1. cause temporal price fluctuations 2. remove volume out of circulation ("stockpiling"), thus influencing the supply / demand equatation. Obviously, this only works with things that have a fixed supply. If the supply is variable, this can backfire badly. See Covetor BPOs. During the hulk rush, people just kept buying them from ORE and reselling them in empire. But during this goldrush economy, people bought TOO MANY, more then the market could actually support. Now people sell researched Covetor BPOs below NPC price. So the thing you are complaining about isnt caused by a trader (as it cannot be caused by a trader). Its caused by the fact that invention and the seeding of t2 BPOS (you knew about that, did you?) finally increased demand for moon minerals, and some hit their physical cap (or are close to it). Did you for one second think about the fact that it may be what CCP intended in the first place? 0.0 Moon minerals are finaly rare enough to fight over them. Thats what eve is about ... Why did i write that anyway? People who read it already know it, and people like you dont read it. I could rant about how trading is not a crime but a service to the customer, but communists expect doctors to treat them for free, then whine because all the doctors starved to death.
Hardigeen	Posted - 2007.11.01 02:14:00 - [64] Originally by: Hanoi Hana Edited by: Hanoi Hana on 01/11/2007 02:06:09 The only person trolling this thread is Hardigeen. He constantly spurns advice, explanations, and intelligent conversation. Rather than to look for a rational discussion, I strongly suspect that he is here only to rile people up and get an emotional reaction. If I give him the benefit of the doubt on the issue, then the best I can say is that he is jealous of other people's money piles and doesn't want to work to earn his own. By the way, this is our home and not yours. Before you call "troll" against some of the most established traders in this forum and in EVE, you should take some time to take a look around the forum and get a feel for who the main people are and why their advice is to be taken more often than not. I think the problem may be that you just painted into a corner by your earlier denials of helpful information and now you can't own up to it. Here's some advice: Buy up a tenth of his stock of dysprosium when he drops prices again around 15 November, and wait for him to increase price again and then sell. What's that? It is a nice idea in theory, but you don't have the money to do that? Then let's punish the people who DID work hard to earn the money to now be able to enact such a plan. Hardigeen, after the thread has gone this far, what exactly do you need to know now about dysprosium? That might help unrederail this thread (again). I understand what hes doing and exactly how he is manipulating the market. I made post on this section of the forum after I figured out the whole cycle of artificialy increasing the price. The price history is there to show it. So nothing new there. As for me trading and doing what he does, or many of you do, I have no interest. I play in my field. My point still stands though, monopoly and price gouging to this extent is greatly affecting other areas of the game, and because this is not the real life, there should be a game mechanics that will prevent gouging without control. Simply saying that market will take care of it is not true.
Hardigeen	Posted - 2007.11.01 02:17:00 - [65] Originally by: Argenton Sayvers Edited by: Argenton Sayvers on 01/11/2007 02:14:14 I guess i say something constructive. In the rare case that you are actually a misguided noclue, and not an entertaining troll: You are mixing up 2 things that are entirely seperate: rarity of a good - and pricefixing / trading / providing liquidity to markets. You are like those t2 whiners who accused t2 BPO owners or resellers of gouging back when cerbs sold for 200m each. The very same people complained about having to wait 12 months for their 80m cerb they ordered from Naga. A trader CANNOT influence the price equilibrium at all. All he can do is either 1. cause temporal price fluctuations 2. remove volume out of circulation ("stockpiling"), thus influencing the supply / demand equatation. Obviously, this only works with things that have a fixed supply. If the supply is variable, this can backfire badly. See Covetor BPOs. During the hulk rush, people just kept buying them from ORE and reselling them in empire. But during this goldrush economy, people bought TOO MANY, more then the market could actually support. Now people sell researched Covetor BPOs below NPC price. So the thing you are complaining about isnt caused by a trader (as it cannot be caused by a trader). Its caused by the fact that invention and the seeding of t2 BPOS (you knew about that, did you?) finally increased demand for moon minerals, and some hit their physical cap (or are close to it). Did you for one second think about the fact that it may be what CCP intended in the first place? 0.0 Moon minerals are finaly rare enough to fight over them. Thats what eve is about ... Why did i write that anyway? People who read it already know it, and people like you dont read it. I could rant about how trading is not a crime but a service to the customer, but communists expect doctors to treat them for free, then whine because all the doctors starved to death. Some parts of your post might be worth replying, but then the trolling part just takes away the fun. Let me try your own words "you are an idiot".
Kylar Renpurs Dusk Blade	Posted - 2007.11.01 02:18:00 - [66] Quote: My point still stands though, monopoly and price gouging to this extent is greatly affecting other areas of the game, and because this is not the real life, there should be a game mechanics that will prevent gouging without control. Simply saying that market will take care of it is not true. Still waiting for a comment on my little price gouging experiment (proves people will always offer buy-orders well below market average, and people will always sell for well below average), tritanium and pyerite, and the four advanced materials I pointed out. Point I'm making is that Quote: monopoly and price gouging to this extent is greatly affecting other areas of the game this is simply not true. Improve Market Competition!
Argenton Sayvers	Posted - 2007.11.01 02:20:00 - [67] Originally by: Hardigeen Some parts of your post might be worth replying, but then the trolling part just takes away the fun. Let me try your own words "you are an idiot". You got me. I was trying to troll you so that you slip up and tell us what else you do besides buying Dysprosium. So that i can pricefix that as well. No seriously, a discussion with someone who doesnt actually say anything isnt fun, and you dont respond to my attempts at wit (neither does anyone else ...) so i leave it at that for now.
Hardigeen	Posted - 2007.11.01 02:24:00 - [68] Originally by: Kylar Renpurs Quote: My point still stands though, monopoly and price gouging to this extent is greatly affecting other areas of the game, and because this is not the real life, there should be a game mechanics that will prevent gouging without control. Simply saying that market will take care of it is not true. Still waiting for a comment on my little price gouging experiment (proves people will always offer buy-orders well below market average, and people will always sell for well below average), tritanium and pyerite, and the four advanced materials I pointed out. Point I'm making is that Quote: monopoly and price gouging to this extent is greatly affecting other areas of the game this is simply not true. I think comparing Dysprosium and lets say Tritanium and Pyerite is just wrong, anyone can mine belt minerals, while Dysprosium moons are in hands of very few. As for price gouging, it certainly is affecting tech 2 production as I for one will not pay 100% more each time I need a batch of Dysprosium, so yeah 1 tech 2 producer less, at least for now.
Hanoi Hana Mitsubishi Group	Posted - 2007.11.01 02:27:00 - [69] Originally by: Hardigeen I understand what hes doing and exactly how he is manipulating the market. I made post on this section of the forum after I figured out the whole cycle of artificialy increasing the price. The price history is there to show it. So nothing new there. As for me trading and doing what he does, or many of you do, I have no interest. I play in my field. My point still stands though, monopoly and price gouging to this extent is greatly affecting other areas of the game, and because this is not the real life, there should be a game mechanics that will prevent gouging without control. Simply saying that market will take care of it is not true. It's going to suck when it soon costs 30mil in parts now to build a T2 Inty but everybody is still selling them for 15mil!!!1 Oh, wait.....
Dr Slurm General Commodities	Posted - 2007.11.01 02:27:00 - [70] Originally by: Hardigeen Originally by: Dr Slurm Originally by: Hardigeen Edited by: Hardigeen on 31/10/2007 23:49:45 Originally by: Shadarle Price gouging is not illegal in RL unless it is on an "essential" item. You are fully allowed to gouge on any item that is not required for survival in most cases, unless special laws have been written regarding that item or item class. If it were illegal to gouge then a lot of markets would disappear very quickly. Price-fixing, on the other hand, is illegal. You are now allowed to collude with other companies to agree on a price to charge for an item and to not lower your prices below this point. This is not what is going on here though. Well I'm glad you gave up trolling and you came up with a valid point for this discussion. Question is, what is an "essential" item in RL or in this game? If no tech 2 item can be produced without Dysprosium, is that an "essential" material then? I don't understand why do you think that gouging the price of Dysporsium is ok, eventually everyone will have to pay more for tech 2 items including you while this guy is getting rich? Unless its in your personal interest.... If people are willing to pay a high price for something then that is what it is worth. If you don't want to pay for it then don't buy it. There is obviously enough other people purchasing it that its an acceptable price. This is market PvP at its finest and you lost. Pretty simple. Seriously do you know what a buy order is? Correct. But, if there is only one place/person to buy from then you MUST pay what he is asking for it. Like I said, you cant build 1 single tech 2 item without Dysprosium. IMO this situation is worst then farmers camping Cosmos complexes for decryptors and skillbooks. Ok since you obviously have no clue what a buy order is I'll explain it in very simple English that I hope even you can understand. A buy order is when you contract with an npc broker to purchase something for you at the price and volume you specify. If someone decides to sell whatever it is you are purchasing to you you then in turn pay the agreed upon amount for the item in question. This is very different from a sell order where you are contracting with an npc to sell goods for you at the price and volume that you specify. Can you comprehend the difference? It's better then Quafe!
Kylar Renpurs Dusk Blade	Posted - 2007.11.01 02:28:00 - [71] Quote: I think comparing Dysprosium and lets say Tritanium and Pyerite is just wrong, anyone can mine belt minerals, while Dysprosium moons are in hands of very few. Quote: Those items are not essential for game balance. Dysprosium is important as for example Tritanium. Its one of the basic blocks in tech 2 production process. cough But anyway, I think you're business sense is lacking if you refuse to pay more when your profit levels, combined with the amount of time to manufacture something, are unaffected. As I said, with T2 battleships coming up, any spike will cause my base costs to rise, but will not affect my profit. Improve Market Competition!
Hardigeen	Posted - 2007.11.01 02:37:00 - [72] Edited by: Hardigeen on 01/11/2007 02:40:22 Originally by: Dr Slurm Ok since you obviously have no clue what a buy order is I'll explain it in very simple English that I hope even you can understand. A buy order is when you contract with an npc broker to purchase something for you at the price and volume you specify. If someone decides to sell whatever it is you are purchasing to you you then in turn pay the agreed upon amount for the item in question. This is very different from a sell order where you are contracting with an npc to sell goods for you at the price and volume that you specify. Can you comprehend the difference? Thank you for your advice, but I think you dont understand the fact that Dysprosium moons are owned by a handfull of people, and considering very high demand for it, they dont exactly need to go around and sell at low, when they can simply put it on the market and sell it at high, especially when someone wil buy it all as soon as they put up a sell order to resell it at his own gouged price.
Hardigeen	Posted - 2007.11.01 02:39:00 - [73] Originally by: Kylar Renpurs Quote: I think comparing Dysprosium and lets say Tritanium and Pyerite is just wrong, anyone can mine belt minerals, while Dysprosium moons are in hands of very few. Quote: Those items are not essential for game balance. Dysprosium is important as for example Tritanium. Its one of the basic blocks in tech 2 production process. cough But anyway, I think you're business sense is lacking if you refuse to pay more when your profit levels, combined with the amount of time to manufacture something, are unaffected. As I said, with T2 battleships coming up, any spike will cause my base costs to rise, but will not affect my profit. You are taking words or parts of the sentence out of context here...
Kylar Renpurs Dusk Blade	Posted - 2007.11.01 02:44:00 - [74] Originally by: Hardigeen Edited by: Hardigeen on 01/11/2007 00:46:11 Originally by: Kylar Renpurs Quote: True, but if someone is capable of taking a control of one item/material then CCP should seriously consider increasing the available amount in game. No. What about officer mods? Data Interfaces? There are a lot of people with a large combined wealth, any one of them could take control of EVE's many 'rare' markets. Scarcity means more erratic prices, and this is caused by market manipulation. One player can take control of one particular type of those and artificially raise prices too, I dont see complaints about 1.5 billion estamel's modified XL boosters tho, or 20 bil estamels invulnerability fields. Further, try this too Those items are not essential for game balance. Dysprosium is important as for example Tritanium. Its one of the basic blocks in tech 2 production process. Thats why price stability is a very important issue. You are comparing apples and oranges. Better? Because the meaning still hasn't changed. I raised the issue of other controlled markets, you compared Dyspro to Tritanium. But semantics are off-topic. Improve Market Competition!
Hanoi Hana Mitsubishi Group	Posted - 2007.11.01 02:45:00 - [75] Originally by: Hardigeen Thank you for your advice, but I think you dont understand the fact that Dysprosium moons are owned by a handfull of people, and considering very high demand for it, they dont exactly need to go around and sell at low, when they can simply put it on the market and sell it at high, especially when someone wil buy it all as soon as they put up a sell order to resell it at his own gouged price. AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH, GET OUT OF MY HEAD! WHEN DYSPROSIUM RISES AND NO OTHER MINERALS FALL, THERE IS AN INCREASE IN THE PRICE OF EVERYTHING THAT IS BUILT USING DYSPROSIUM. THIS MEANS YOU DON'T LOSE ANY MONEY BY BUYING EXPENSIVE DYSPROSIUM UNTIL THE GUY DECIDES (IF EVER) TO CASH OUT. What are you still wondering??
Hardigeen	Posted - 2007.11.01 02:46:00 - [76] Anyways, I think this post I made is in the wrong part of forums. Most of the people that follow posts in here ARE the people that make a living in game price gouging and reselling so no point in arguing how much is that affecting the game, you all will obviously never agree with me for your own personall reasons. Can mod please move this post to the appropriate section, and I think that would be Stations, Starbases and Outposts. Thank you all for a nice discussion.
Shadarles	Posted - 2007.11.01 02:52:00 - [77] Wow, we all got trolled REALLY badly by this guy. He is an alt. He is blatantly trolling. Best idea: Stop posting here and let him get bored with himself and go back to losing at market PvP.
Kylar Renpurs Dusk Blade	Posted - 2007.11.01 02:52:00 - [78] hmm, yes,, SSO, where there's apparently no concern at this judging by the topics, and it's business as usual for manufacturers. Improve Market Competition!
Benvie Benvie Enterprises	Posted - 2007.11.01 03:39:00 - [79] More spam: Question to tech 2 producers Conspiracy hat on. I think this is the same person that posted this crap a month or two again. And I wouldn't be surprised if it's the same person who is controlling the market. Any publicity is good publicity right? Get people excited about dysprosium prices, etc etc. Either way it's either trolling or manipulation.
Hanoi Hana Mitsubishi Group	Posted - 2007.11.01 03:41:00 - [80] Now that you mention it, there has been several previous Dyspro articles in this forum, and I have posted on two of them that I could have sworn ALREADY having seen a Dyspro article here before.
Kylar Renpurs Dusk Blade	Posted - 2007.11.01 03:45:00 - [81] I <3 crossposts :) Loving it more that there's still no responses because shock its not a big issue. Improve Market Competition!
Benvie Benvie Enterprises	Posted - 2007.11.01 03:46:00 - [82] Is someone trying to monopolise Dysprosium? Dysprosium issue?
Curzon Dax Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.11.01 03:58:00 - [83] Alternatively, you could work out a deal with a third party to supply what you need.
Hardigeen	Posted - 2007.11.01 05:48:00 - [84] Originally by: Benvie More spam: Question to tech 2 producers Conspiracy hat on. I think this is the same person that posted this crap a month or two again. And I wouldn't be surprised if it's the same person who is controlling the market. Any publicity is good publicity right? Get people excited about dysprosium prices, etc etc. Either way it's either trolling or manipulation. Your tinfoil hat looks really good on you.
Hanoi Hana Mitsubishi Group	Posted - 2007.11.01 06:00:00 - [85] I thought you left? Sorry to be so "confrontive" (a perfectly cromulent word), but you are accomplishing nothing here, and it seems somewhat established that you are accomplishing nothing on purpose.
Hardigeen	Posted - 2007.11.01 06:10:00 - [86] Originally by: Hanoi Hana I thought you left? Sorry to be so "confrontive" (a perfectly cromulent word), but you are accomplishing nothing here, and it seems somewhat established that you are accomplishing nothing on purpose. I did leave, but then I saw how you, residnet trolls of Market discusion forums on Evo site, troll anyone that would like to say something, I decided to come back and just be anoying as much as you are. So here I am, trolling back at you, calling you stupid idiots with no life, just because I like to do that at this moment.
Argenton Sayvers	Posted - 2007.11.01 11:18:00 - [87] How about we all pretend to agree with him, and write flamming Jade Constantine-Style rants about how high dysprosium prices are relicts of the feudalistic past, supressing the free human spirit, keeping capsuleers from unlocking their true potential? The one who has the best Jade Parody gets ... er ... a stack of Dysprosium?
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.11.01 12:23:00 - [88] Or, you know, Hardigeen could be THE person who's buying all the dysprosium (well, his alt, whatever), waiting for everybody to start putting up insanely priced buy orders, then he'll just dump most/all of his overpriced stocks on the poor bastards who did think they'll make a killing _ 1\|2\|3
Minerva Vulcan Caldari The Nexus Foundation	Posted - 2007.11.01 12:50:00 - [89] Originally by: Hardigeen I play in my field. My point still stands though, monopoly and price gouging to this extent is greatly affecting other areas of the game They're effecting your areas of the game. And that gives me the lulz, because you're dumb and can't find a solution.
Fabricati Diem Burleigh and Strong	Posted - 2007.11.01 15:27:00 - [90] Originally by: Argenton Sayvers How about we all pretend to agree with him, and write flamming Jade Constantine-Style rants about how high dysprosium prices are relicts of the feudalistic past, supressing the free human spirit, keeping capsuleers from unlocking their true potential? The one who has the best Jade Parody gets ... er ... a stack of Dysprosium? Can we hold off on that until I get my own stack of dysprosium ready? I don't think the OP really came in here trolling. I think he's just seen his manufacturing costs steadily increasing, figured out someone is causing it intentionally, and is trying to do something about it. Raising the issue in this forum is akin to a gazelle appealing to lions about the predatory tactics of leopards. Where the thread has gone now is another story, of course. OP, can you still make a profit at his price? Can other people? Are people paying what he is charging? Then that's what dysprosium is worth. If you can't make a profit then stop doing what you are doing. He'll stop making a profit and stop doing what he's doing. Of course, you can also start many threads about how there is great profit to be made undercutting the monopolist and hope for the best.
Hexxx Minmatar	Posted - 2007.11.01 17:48:00 - [91] Originally by: Hardigeen Originally by: Hanoi Hana I thought you left? Sorry to be so "confrontive" (a perfectly cromulent word), but you are accomplishing nothing here, and it seems somewhat established that you are accomplishing nothing on purpose. I did leave, but then I saw how you, residnet trolls of Market discusion forums on Evo site, troll anyone that would like to say something, I decided to come back and just be anoying as much as you are. So here I am, trolling back at you, calling you stupid idiots with no life, just because I like to do that at this moment. The Market will continue just fine with or without you playing in it. In the end, your own production and issues with mineral supply means nothing to the forces of the Market. Accept your insignificance in this regard and the fact that is a natural and neccessary part of a hyper-capitalistic game. Once you do this, you will realize the truth about economics. Consulting, IPO Template, and Stock/Bond definitions.
Benvie Benvie Enterprises	Posted - 2007.11.01 18:41:00 - [92] I'm not trolling. Just find all the moaning about dysprosium specifically suspicious. Regardless, prices for all that moon mineral stuff are going to spike here shortly anyway so the whole market will be in havoc. Don't come here complaining again when that happens.
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.11.01 18:43:00 - [93] Originally by: Fabricati Diem I don't think the OP really came in here trolling. He most definitely did. He was given specific solutions to his problems and he ignored them. He called anyone who even remotely disagreed with him a troll. He avoided rational solutions and intentionally fanned flames. This was a troll post from the beginning to the end. It may have also been a market manipulation thread but that is something I can't prove. The whole thing should be trimmed down to 3-4 posts tho if not totally deleted. Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Fabricati Diem Burleigh and Strong	Posted - 2007.11.01 19:46:00 - [94] Originally by: Shadarle He most definitely did. He was given specific solutions to his problems and he ignored them. He called anyone who even remotely disagreed with him a troll. He avoided rational solutions and intentionally fanned flames. This was a troll post from the beginning to the end. It may have also been a market manipulation thread but that is something I can't prove. The whole thing should be trimmed down to 3-4 posts tho if not totally deleted. For a given value of trolling, I'd agree that it was started with intent to troll, but that definition would include (in my opinion) anyone that sees something they don't like and tries to get it changed by making it an issue. He got an unsympathetic response, didn't respond well to suggestions how he handle it and is definitely all troll-y now, though. As for market manipulation it certainly is, one way or the other. If he is as he presents himself, he wants people to come in and lower the price with new supplies or whatever. If he is the guy with the horde then he's just advertising, but either way he's attempting to get the market to do what he wants. If nothing else, the thread is a good example of why one should lurk before posting in an unfamiliar forum.
Hardigeen	Posted - 2007.11.01 22:04:00 - [95] Edited by: Hardigeen on 01/11/2007 22:04:55 Idiots with tinfoil hats.
Fabricati Diem Burleigh and Strong	Posted - 2007.11.01 22:25:00 - [96] Originally by: Hardigeen Edited by: Hardigeen on 01/11/2007 22:04:55 Idiots with tinfoil hats. Absolutely. No one around here has made any isk by fixing the market and taking advantage of those who won't adapt. Pure tinfoil that idea right there, glad you spotted it.
Sphynx Stormlord Gallente Anqara Tech	Posted - 2007.11.01 22:39:00 - [97] The strangest thing about this thread, is that going to look at the jita Dysprosium market, and it looks quite healthy. There are about 15 different buy orders at around 19k/unit, and around 10 different sell orders around 22-23k/unit. OK, the prices have doubled in the last couple of months, but that is perfectly understandable with inventable t2 battleships coming soon. But it realy doesnt look like a market which has just been cornered.
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.11.01 22:42:00 - [98] I guess it would be OK now to come out and admit that my alt is the one controlling this market. The key to market manipulation is to post 10+ orders so it doesn't look like manipulation. Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Hardigeen	Posted - 2007.11.01 22:47:00 - [99] Originally by: Sphynx Stormlord The strangest thing about this thread, is that going to look at the jita Dysprosium market, and it looks quite healthy. There are about 15 different buy orders at around 19k/unit, and around 10 different sell orders around 22-23k/unit. OK, the prices have doubled in the last couple of months, but that is perfectly understandable with inventable t2 battleships coming soon. But it realy doesnt look like a market which has just been cornered. Maybe you should compare it to Promethium market to see whats different?
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.11.01 22:48:00 - [100] Originally by: Hardigeen Maybe you should compare it to Promethium market to see whats different? I am not in the Promethium market? Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Hardigeen	Posted - 2007.11.01 22:51:00 - [101] Edited by: Hardigeen on 01/11/2007 22:53:14 Originally by: Shadarle Originally by: Hardigeen Maybe you should compare it to Promethium market to see whats different? I am not in the Promethium market? And for the resident trolls.... You went from calling me clueless about how market works, saying I dont know what buy order is, to saying I am the one who is fixing the price. You gotta love the trolls, especialy the resident kind.
Argenton Sayvers	Posted - 2007.11.01 23:12:00 - [102] Wait the Promethium market is still up for grabs? Why didnt you say so in the first place? Last one to Jita has to corner Amarr Battleships ...
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.11.01 23:28:00 - [103] Originally by: Hardigeen Edited by: Hardigeen on 01/11/2007 22:53:14 Originally by: Shadarle Originally by: Hardigeen Maybe you should compare it to Promethium market to see whats different? I am not in the Promethium market? And for the resident trolls.... You went from calling me clueless about how market works, saying I dont know what buy order is, to saying I am the one who is fixing the price. You gotta love the trolls, especialy the resident kind. Can you not read written English? I said I am the one fixing the prices. Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Kylar Renpurs Dusk Blade	Posted - 2007.11.01 23:29:00 - [104] Quote: You went from calling me clueless about how market works, saying I dont know what buy order is, Quote: ... You can buy from a specific order. One character owns all orders. I bought 1 unit of Dysprosium from each one of the 4-5 orders and same character was listed in my wallet as seller for each one of them at a different price. more unusually loud coughing End of the day, your initial claims that CCP needs to stop this sort of action from being possible is entirely ridiculous Improve Market Competition!
Fabricati Diem Burleigh and Strong	Posted - 2007.11.02 00:43:00 - [105] Originally by: Shadarle I said I am the one fixing the prices. No, I am Spart .. uh, fixing the prices.
Hardigeen	Posted - 2007.11.02 01:37:00 - [106] Edited by: Hardigeen on 02/11/2007 01:42:47 Edited by: Hardigeen on 02/11/2007 01:42:12 Edited by: Hardigeen on 02/11/2007 01:38:59 Originally by: Kylar Renpurs Quote: You went from calling me clueless about how market works, saying I dont know what buy order is, Quote: ... You can buy from a specific order. One character owns all orders. I bought 1 unit of Dysprosium from each one of the 4-5 orders and same character was listed in my wallet as seller for each one of them at a different price. more unusually loud coughing End of the day, your initial claims that CCP needs to stop this sort of action from being possible is entirely ridiculous Smartass.... If someone has an order to sell 360K of Dysprosium on the market you think he really was waiting 150 days of moon mining to bring his stuff on the market? I doubt it. Dysprosium and Promethium are two moon minerals you can compare, and if you look at the price history, you can see what market manipulation did to the price of Dysprosium compared to the price of Promethium.
GPszith Gallente Gypsy Productions	Posted - 2007.11.02 01:45:00 - [107] Originally by: Benvie I'm not trolling. Just find all the moaning about dysprosium specifically suspicious. Regardless, prices for all that moon mineral stuff are going to spike here shortly anyway so the whole market will be in havoc. Don't come here complaining again when that happens. Looks like we know his main to me. -------------------------------------------------- -GPszith wtb a sig
Kylar Renpurs Dusk Blade	Posted - 2007.11.02 01:45:00 - [108] Quote: If someone has an order to sell 360K of Dysprosium on the market you think he really was waiting 150 days of moon mining to bring his stuff on the market? I doubt it. Absolutely not. But what's that got to do with anything? He could've bought up jita, he could've bought up another region and moved it to jita. But I'm really at a loss, whats the size of the sell order got to do with, well, anything? Someone bought up and is relisting at a higher price. So,,,, the sky is falling? Someone manipulated the market. Woo. Improve Market Competition!
Hardigeen	Posted - 2007.11.02 01:55:00 - [109] Originally by: Kylar Renpurs Quote: If someone has an order to sell 360K of Dysprosium on the market you think he really was waiting 150 days of moon mining to bring his stuff on the market? I doubt it. Absolutely not. But what's that got to do with anything? He could've bought up jita, he could've bought up another region and moved it to jita. But I'm really at a loss, whats the size of the sell order got to do with, well, anything? Someone bought up and is relisting at a higher price. So,,,, the sky is falling? Someone manipulated the market. Woo. I think GP gave you the answer. Its ME, I'm the one reselling. at the Market forum residents....
Karanth Gallente Crazy 88's	Posted - 2007.11.02 02:16:00 - [110] HAI GUYS, I MISS TEH PARTY YET? WOOT WOOT! ...WTF, this isn't CAOD! But, but, the troll OP... Aw, forget it.... /me goes back to the cage. All that's left... There is only one sig hijack that matters, the orginal and only member of the hijack squad. me. -Eris. ps Black russians are better then beer. Well, there's not many of us left! -Rauth
Benvie Benvie Enterprises	Posted - 2007.11.02 03:09:00 - [111] Edited by: Benvie on 02/11/2007 03:09:52 Originally by: GPszith Originally by: Benvie I'm not trolling. Just find all the moaning about dysprosium specifically suspicious. Regardless, prices for all that moon mineral stuff are going to spike here shortly anyway so the whole market will be in havoc. Don't come here complaining again when that happens. Looks like we know his main to me. I may not be understanding, but are you saying I'm Hardigeen's main? lol. I'm not involved in any dysprosium manipulation, but I may or may not be running a public investment corporation that may or may not have invested some ISK in moon minerals and tech 2 component futures.
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.11.02 04:09:00 - [112] Originally by: Kylar Renpurs Quote: If someone has an order to sell 360K of Dysprosium on the market you think he really was waiting 150 days of moon mining to bring his stuff on the market? I doubt it. Absolutely not. But what's that got to do with anything? He could've bought up jita, he could've bought up another region and moved it to jita. But I'm really at a loss, whats the size of the sell order got to do with, well, anything? Someone bought up and is relisting at a higher price. So,,,, the sky is falling? Someone manipulated the market. Woo. Are you expecting him to engage in a rational discussion with you? Just curious. I've already admitted it was me that this thread was created about. I cornered the market. You can tell he is merely trolling though because he hasn't responded to these claims. He wants to troll, not face up to the fact that I've been gouging the hell out of him and he's been paying me a crapload more isk than he should. So, Thank you for all your money :) Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Hardigeen	Posted - 2007.11.02 05:34:00 - [113] Originally by: Shadarle Originally by: Kylar Renpurs Quote: If someone has an order to sell 360K of Dysprosium on the market you think he really was waiting 150 days of moon mining to bring his stuff on the market? I doubt it. Absolutely not. But what's that got to do with anything? He could've bought up jita, he could've bought up another region and moved it to jita. But I'm really at a loss, whats the size of the sell order got to do with, well, anything? Someone bought up and is relisting at a higher price. So,,,, the sky is falling? Someone manipulated the market. Woo. Are you expecting him to engage in a rational discussion with you? Just curious. I've already admitted it was me that this thread was created about. I cornered the market. You can tell he is merely trolling though because he hasn't responded to these claims. He wants to troll, not face up to the fact that I've been gouging the hell out of him and he's been paying me a crapload more isk than he should. So, Thank you for all your money :) You wish....
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.11.02 05:53:00 - [114] Hillarious _ 1\|2\|3
Dr Slurm General Commodities	Posted - 2007.11.02 06:47:00 - [115] Originally by: Akita T Hillarious Talk about free ride on the WHAAAAAAMBULANCE all the way to SS&O. Don't like the answers you got in one forum? Cross post FTW and then get owned all over again. It's better then Quafe!
Sicil Fioet Minmatar	Posted - 2007.11.02 08:08:00 - [116] this thread is delivering, in several places the "resident trolls", all 20-30 of them, are very obviously conspiring to drive you broke and this is why they keep trolling your thread and suggesting completely unworkable solutions to the problem like finding other sources of dysprosium and using buy orders while they spend the time buying out some of of it and raising prices even higher for you :D
Babeele	Posted - 2007.11.02 08:41:00 - [117] Originally by: Sicil Fioet this thread is delivering, in several places the "resident trolls", all 20-30 of them, are very obviously conspiring to drive you broke and this is why they keep trolling your thread and suggesting completely unworkable solutions to the problem like finding other sources of dysprosium and using buy orders while they spend the time buying out some of of it and raising prices even higher for you :D OP is absolutely right and all of you trolls have no clue etc etc etc... See, I have more alts too
Michela Bosun Shipyards Momentum Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.03 02:28:00 - [118] Wow, I have never seen someone who claims to be a T2 producer whine so very, very much. If one is at the point in this game where they are making T2 items (either via BPO or Invention) that you would think that they would understand that there is more than just one way to obtain moon minerals. I guess not in this case. Pathetic.
DeltaMav Rui Hostem Free Trade Zone.	Posted - 2007.11.03 14:12:00 - [119] I was till recently running a 22 pos network mining mostly Dysprosium & Promethium moons, due to wanting a change in direction I pulled them all down and sold off most the network in 0.0. Am offering the moonscans for 1 region 0.0 with these moons + some moon scan data saved from other regions I used to run the network in. Cost: 1bn, or 5bn for exclusive access to data, can msg me ingame for a chat.
Liza Catapolus	Posted - 2007.11.04 12:27:00 - [120] Originally by: Hardigeen Originally by: Kylar Renpurs Quote: My point still stands though, monopoly and price gouging to this extent is greatly affecting other areas of the game, and because this is not the real life, there should be a game mechanics that will prevent gouging without control. Simply saying that market will take care of it is not true. Still waiting for a comment on my little price gouging experiment (proves people will always offer buy-orders well below market average, and people will always sell for well below average), tritanium and pyerite, and the four advanced materials I pointed out. Point I'm making is that Quote: monopoly and price gouging to this extent is greatly affecting other areas of the game this is simply not true. I think comparing Dysprosium and lets say Tritanium and Pyerite is just wrong, anyone can mine belt minerals, while Dysprosium moons are in hands of very few. As for price gouging, it certainly is affecting tech 2 production as I for one will not pay 100% more each time I need a batch of Dysprosium, so yeah 1 tech 2 producer less, at least for now. If the price really goes up 100% every time you make a purchase, you better be making amazing profits because your in the wrong business. Just buy that item, as much as you can from just that guy. Wait for him to mark it up 100%, sell it back to him for double your money.

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