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Macro Slasher
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Posted - 2007.11.02 22:28:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Kanarue Shinohara
High-sec suicide ganking may not be a widespread problem now (relatively speaking, of course) but when it becomes common and all over the place, plenty hope for some kind of new solution to deal with it.
So? You have not made any credible point what is even bad in high sec ganking? It is all in all a good thing.
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xOm3gAx
Caldari Stain of Mind
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Posted - 2007.11.02 22:41:00 -
[32]
Edited by: xOm3gAx on 02/11/2007 22:43:42
Originally by: Kanarue Shinohara Edited by: Kanarue Shinohara on 02/11/2007 08:47:05 (In-game Notepad title: "Game Suggestion IX")
Suggestion: Stronger punishments for high-sec suicide-ganking
-As a "quasi-exploit," more and more PKs are suicide-ganking ships with precious cargo in high-security space. They destroy a ship, get destroyed, and then a friend or an alt goes in and collects the spoils.
-In real life, the police would guard the spoils from looters.
-Therefore, to make suicide-ganking feel less worthwhile, have a CONCORD ship scoop up the offender's pod and imprison him/her inside the police-ship until s/he pays a variable fine to CONCORD.
-The fine ought to be 1m ISK for every 5 skills + 100k ISK for every skill level in all skills the offender possesses. Therefore, if the offender has 150 skills and a combined total of 600 levels added together from all skills (if all of his skills average together to level 4), the total fine to pay for release from ship-imprisonment will be 90m ISK. (That is: 30m = (150 skills / 5) * 1m added to 60m = 100k * 600 total levels)
-Would-be gankers might complain and say, "What??? Those fines are TOO STEEP!" The response would be, "THEN DON'T SUICIDE-GANK! Oh, and the cost to the victim of a suicide-ganking is also too steep. Wasted time, copious recovery costs, etc."
-I recommend for half of the fine payment to be paid to the victim.
-For those gankers who can't afford the fine to free themselves right away, CONCORD ought to make them a deal: They can apply for a fine loan (kind of like a bail bond, but there is no court to show up to.) Once they take out the loan to pay their way out, they will later have to pay it all back, plus interest at 2% per day.
--The amount they DID have in their wallet will go toward paying the original loan, and the offender will have a negative balance in their wallet from the remaining loan difference.
--Any profit from the items they sell, rat bounties they earn, etc., will directly go toward paying off the fine loan so the offender won't be able to purchase anything in the meantime.
---EXCEPTION: If the offender decides to fly to a <0.4 system and earn ISK there while the loan hasn't fully been paid, the money will go straight to his/her wallet because CONCORD can't enforce payment out in low-sec space.
---However, once the ganker reappears in high-sec, CONCORD will immediately confiscate all of the earned ISK and put it towards the loan.
-Not just half of the principal, but also half of the paid interest should go to the victim.
-To process the offender's loan application should take 30 minutes. Therefore, s/he remains in jail for at least 30 minutes. (Reminder: If the offender has the needed ISK on hand at that moment, s/he can go on their merry way immediately after paying the fine.)
-To get a friend to spring them out for them, all they need to do is send money and the ganker will be on his/her way.
If you don't want to fear getting suicide-ganked anymore, then please agree with the suggestion. If it ever goes to a future patch, you will finally be able to relax!
(Note: The ones who may disagree are probably the suicide-gankers themselves or those who may have a tendency for these acts.)
Linkage
Check that out if you think high sec space is supposed to be safe.
Originally by: CCP The intention was never to make attacks completely impossible or completely unprofitable. It is up to each player to take measures to ensure his own safety when travelling. This is especially important to keep in mind when oneÆs cargo is of extreme value.
Pilots transporting valuables through empire space should therefore always hope for the best and prepare for the worst. Knowledge of the risks at hand and the right preparation can ensure a pilotÆs safety if he is selected as a would be target.
Originally by: CCP Abraxas Her boyfriend's way hot, too; tall and tanned. And I say this as a very hetero male who doesn't ever dream of the man on cold, dark nights.
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Tarron Sarek
Gallente Endica Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.11.02 22:58:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Tarron Sarek on 02/11/2007 22:59:39 I know it's a bad idea and most likely wasted time to post in a thread like this, but anyway..
There are but three problems with regard to suicide ganks, and no, suicide ganks themselves are not a problem:
1. Careless (or maybe stupid? ah well, probably just not paranoid enough) carebears. 2. Very little punishment. Come on, T1 fitting and insurance? Profit! 3. Stupid Concord. Kirk would be proud, shoot first, ask questions later.
Now in order not to make things overly and unnecessarily complex, the solution would be to directly address the three issues.
- The first one might be rather difficult to fix. Make the tutorial teach newbs how to fit a ship defensively and how to travel savely. If they skip the tutorial - it's their own fault.
- The second point could be fixed with no insurance payouts for being CONCORDOKKEN'd. Sure this wouldn't prohobit suicide ganks, and actually that's not the plan in the first place. It raises the bar to a reasonable level, nothing more. Suicide ganks should be carefully prepared coups. Not a popular and profitable pastime for every braindead player with a few alts.
- The third point is a problem with regard to accidental shooting, mostly concerning new players, but also some *cough* teamplay *cough* mechanics. These issues would be history if Concord wouldn't instantly pop a ship for even a single shot. They should stop the offender and fine the offender. If he doesn't pay - pop! Something like that. It shouldn't take concord more time then now to stop the shooting. However, a determined and well prepared group of criminals should still be able to take out any not well defended hauler in empire space. At an appropriate price, that is.
_________________________________ - Balance is power, guard it well - |
Gamesguy
Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.11.02 23:36:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Kanarue Shinohara Knowing kamikazes will become far too common soon, I will keep fighting for this new feature and never give up. (However, a 100m ISK reimbursement will get me to stop and live with the way things are now.)
But I know no one will reimburse me my losses, so I shall keep fighting for stronger kamikaze sanctions 'till the end of time! o/
You're about 2 years behind. Suicide ganks have been going on for years now. About 6months-1 year ago it became really popular because idiots like you post crap like this on the forums, which people read and then went "hey I should try that!"
You have no one but yourself for blame.
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Kanarue Shinohara
Gallente production management team
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Posted - 2007.11.02 23:51:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Gamesguy (blah...)
Your sec-rating is -0.9. Your disposition feels like it comes from a -5.0-sec player. You're probably headed there anyway. Watch out for Gamesguy because s/he is quite likely a high-sec ganker too. Signature: [color=#228B22]I actually like the name "carebear." Quite kawaii, really.[/color] |
Macro Slasher
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Posted - 2007.11.03 00:08:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Kanarue Shinohara
Originally by: Gamesguy (blah...)
Your sec-rating is -0.9. Your disposition feels like it comes from a -5.0-sec player. You're probably headed there anyway. Watch out for Gamesguy because s/he is quite likely a high-sec ganker too.
"Waawaa I can't play the game waawaa I want all the rewards without any risks waawaa oh my god someone played using the game world's logics waawaa"
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Kanarue Shinohara
Gallente production management team
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Posted - 2007.11.03 00:15:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Macro Slasher "...I can't play the game...I want all the rewards without any risks...oh my god someone played using the game world's logics..." [:letthegoodtimesroll:]
Chance are, you're living in 0.0, got annihilated lately and decided to take your infuriations out on somebody random. [invisitag]Please, grow up.[/invisitag]
Signature: [color=#228B22]I actually like the name "carebear." Quite kawaii, really.[/color] |
Docteur Xentav
Minmatar Varietas Acquisition
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Posted - 2007.11.03 03:59:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Plave Okice
Originally by: Kanarue Shinohara -As a "quasi-exploit,"
Originally by: CCP Some players are willing to lose ships and their good standing with Concord for the hope of quick profit from a juicy loot drop. The (kamikaze÷ attackers usually work in pairs or groups. They scan the cargo holds of bypassing pilots flying easily destructable ships until they see something worthy of a ship loss. They then blow up the ship and and while Concord do what they do best, a second character picks up the loot from the ship¦s wreck.
This is not seen as an exploit of the intended game mechanics and there is no compensation or reimbursement to be had for losses caused by attacks in secure space.
Read here
Learn to protect yourself, stop being lazy afking or stfu and take it.
I'm a now retired Kamikaze (never used an alt either whoever said it's all alts) and it never ceases to amaze me how people can expect to just go afk and move their valuables around at will. Read what CCP say on the matter. Or don't, I made tens of billions doing it and many more will continue to do so.
Quoting because the OP is ignoring it.
Incidently when the hell have you ever heard of the cops responding to a crime in 15 seconds IRL? Lets factor in Donut time, waddling to their cars and then traffic. So say concord response timers get reduced to 15mins unless the system has a limited supply of quafe and donuts. Seeing as you love the RL comparisons so much
Suicide ganking is good for the ecconomy, and more importantly manufacturers like myself.
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ninjaholic
Gallente Burn the Jolly Roger Phoenix Rising Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.03 04:07:00 -
[39]
That link is damn invaluable!!
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Kanarue Shinohara
Gallente production management team
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Posted - 2007.11.03 04:38:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Kanarue Shinohara on 03/11/2007 04:40:58
Originally by: ninjaholic That link is damn invaluable!!
Originally by: Docteur Xentav Quoting because the OP is ignoring it.
Don't worry, I'm not ignoring it. I've read it and may read it again. ______________ I actually like the name "carebear." Quite kawaii, really.
For the love of God, you'd better read 4, 6, 7, 19 & 20. |
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Gamesguy
Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.11.03 06:01:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Kanarue Shinohara Edited by: Kanarue Shinohara on 03/11/2007 00:36:29
Originally by: Gamesguy (blah...)
Your sec-rating is -0.9. Your disposition feels like it comes from a -5.0-sec player. You're probably headed there anyway. Watch out for Gamesguy because s/he is quite likely a high-sec ganker too.
I used to suicide gank to make isk, since then I have found far more profitable pursuits.
And yes, I have been suicide ganked, exactly once when I went afk to grab a drink and lost about a bil isk on my alt. It was my own fault, if I had docked up before going afk I would've been fine.
Quote: EDIT: Gamesguy also broke Rules 4, 6, & 7.
You broke the rule regarding stupidity and ignorance..
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Kanarue Shinohara
Gallente production management team
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Posted - 2007.11.03 09:51:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Kanarue Shinohara on 03/11/2007 09:53:00
Originally by: Gamesguy I used to suicide gank to make isk, since then I have found far more profitable pursuits.
And yes, I have been suicide ganked, exactly once when I went afk to grab a drink and lost about a bil isk on my alt. It was my own fault, if I had docked up before going afk I would've been fine.
Ouch. How long did it take to earn it all back? Next time I do anything risky (like another high-value trade run), I should bring my laptop into the kitchen when I have to get something from there. (Or yes, dock in if taking my laptop doesn't feel worthwhile.)
Originally by: Gamesguy
Originally by: Kanarue Shinohara EDIT: Gamesguy also broke Rules 4, 6, & 7.
You broke the rule regarding stupidity and ignorance..
Right there, you broke Rules 4, 6, & 7 once again.
I hunched at there being no rule governing stupidity & ignorance but gave the benefit of the doubt and used Ctrl+F to find the strings "stu" and "igno" on the Forum Rules page. To find out what I found, try it yourself. (In short, I found nothing of the sort.) ______________ I actually like the name "carebear." Quite kawaii, really.
For the love of God, you'd better read 4, 6, 7, 19 & 20. |
Macro Slasher
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Posted - 2007.11.03 10:07:00 -
[43]
Guys, stop replying to this post. The ducking ****hole carebear keeps bumping his lame thread constantly until the end of the days if you do. he is like guarding his (********) baby.
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Kanarue Shinohara
Gallente production management team
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Posted - 2007.11.03 11:08:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Kanarue Shinohara on 03/11/2007 11:13:23
Originally by: Macro Slasher (post 43)
Macro Slasher broke rules 4, 6, 7, 19, & 20. Especially 6 & 7. ______________ I actually like the name "carebear." Quite kawaii, really.
For the love of God, you'd better read 4, 6, 7, 19 & 20. |
Chruker
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Posted - 2007.11.03 11:16:00 -
[45]
Give those gankers hell
I would like CONCORD to guard your wreck. So if anybody steals from a wreck/can while CONCORD is on grid they will attack. They will just not warp to the location of a steal.
----- http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online ----- Top wishes: - No daily downtime - Faster training on sisi - Speedup IGB table rendering |
Gamesguy
Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.11.03 11:39:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Kanarue Shinohara
Ouch. How long did it take to earn it all back? Next time I do anything risky (like another high-value trade run), I should bring my laptop into the kitchen when I have to get something from there. (Or yes, dock in if taking my laptop doesn't feel worthwhile.)
A day. If I wasn't afk I would not have been possible to gank, its pretty simple. Stupid people die, and I made a stupid mistake.
Originally by: Gamesguy
Right there, you broke Rules 4, 6, & 7 once again.
I hunched at there being no rule governing stupidity & ignorance but gave the benefit of the doubt and used Ctrl+F to find the strings "stu" and "igno" on the Forum Rules page. To find out what I found, try it yourself. (In short, I found nothing of the sort.)
Thats nice, you realize no one gives a **** about the rules?
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Kanarue Shinohara
Gallente production management team
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Posted - 2007.11.03 11:46:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Kanarue Shinohara on 03/11/2007 11:47:13
Originally by: Gamesguy Thats nice, you realize no one gives a (hoot) about the rules?
(Rule 19 broken.) The moderators do. If even they don't, I'd like to see a source that backs this up, or a moderator him/herself say that. (But if they don't care anymore, then why do they keep the rules on the rule page? They would probably have changed them.) ______________ I actually like the name "carebear." Quite kawaii, really.
For the love of God, you'd better read 4, 6, 7, 19 & 20. |
Ki An
Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum
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Posted - 2007.11.03 12:50:00 -
[48]
This is directed at the OP of this post:
I love this kind of threads. For a long time I was one of those who said "suck it up and don't go afk", but since then I have changed. The last thread like this I read made me really think "Hey, why am I defending suicide gankers when I can become one myself?" So I did a few suicide ganks and found to my great enjoyment that you can make a ton of isk by shooting stupid lazy people. I had sec status to spare, so I continued, and once it drops too low, I will rat it up again and do even more suicide ganks, because it's a great way to make isk.
The reason that it is so great is not that rules favor it in any way, but rather that so many people don't have the slightest idea of how to play this game. Preying on the weak minded is my favorite pastime, and suicide ganking is the best way of doing so.
In closing, I would like to thank the OP and the rest of his kind for posting about this so I started doing it, and for continuing to haul hundreds of millions afk in paper thin ships.
You're the best! <3 Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"! |
Frecator Dementa
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.11.03 15:21:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Frecator Dementa on 03/11/2007 15:23:12 >You don't commit a crime by accident here; a pop-up asks you, "PROCEED WITH THIS >DANGEROUS ACT?" along with a warning about what happens when you do. You then click >"Yes" or "No" to confirm so there is no such thing as committing a crime in high-sec >space by accident.
suppose the following scenario: - a CNR missions in a deadspace pocket in highsec using smartbombs to destroy the smaller rats - a CLOAKED covops ship approches the raven in the hopes it gets hit by the smartbombs - smartbombs hit the covops, CNR gets CONCORDED!
THAT is an "accidental" crime :D
My proposal: Don't pay insurance to the attacking ship IF that ship is involved in a player kill (is in a killmail) ----------------------- forum ate my post again |
Lord Zoran
Caldari CrAzyF1sTs
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Posted - 2007.11.03 16:21:00 -
[50]
currently the loss of sec means you can't do it many times without having to then grindand often you would have to wait long amounts of time for a target, i only agree that you shouldn't get insurance apart from that i see nothing wrong with suicide ganking and only see that many people should be more careful
--------------------------------------------- no sig for you !!! Yarr!?!?!?!?!
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Helen Hunts
Gallente Red Dragon Mining inc
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Posted - 2007.11.03 18:08:00 -
[51]
Let me see if I can state this in a way that cannot be mis-interpreted....
Our dear OP is fond of the Rules. Suicide ganking is explicitly allowed by the rules that CCP has laid down. (several links provided above) Suicide gankers pay a price for their actions, just like the rules say they must. On the same page, there are a few bits of information on how to avoid becoming a victim to a suicide ganking.
As I read this, the OP wishes to change the rules instead of working within the rules as they stand.
Am I the only one seeing a double standard here?
For more ideas on how NOT to become another victim of a suicide ganking, check the Ships and Modules channel. Do take note that a failed suicide attack COSTS the ganker the price of his lost fittings and the cost of a new insurance policy. If you wish to penalize these guys, make it not profitable with your own actions instead of changing the rules for everyone. _______________________________
Mine da rocks, make more ships. Pop da rats, make more rigs. Sell da gear, make more money.
Any Questions? |
Lubomir Penev
interimo
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Posted - 2007.11.05 01:48:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Kanarue Shinohara Edited by: Kanarue Shinohara on 02/11/2007 04:25:33
Originally by: Helen Hunts If I accidentally call down the wrath of CONCORD...
You don't commit a crime by accident here; a pop-up asks you, "PROCEED WITH THIS DANGEROUS ACT?" along with a warning about what happens when you do. You then click "Yes" or "No" to confirm so there is no such thing as committing a crime in high-sec space by accident.
That would be true is EVE wasn't insanely bugged. Repair an out of corp buddy with a drone to check. You have to go thru that CONCORD warning thing saying you are about to commit a crime. You click thru, you are not concordoken but the warning is disabled. It's then very easy to shoot an innocent unwillingly.
And suicide ganking is one of the few ways to deal with farmers, so using your arguments if you are against suicide ganking you must be a farmer yourself. -- Heat, easy to burn your mods by mistake, hard to get it to work when you need it the most. Well designed interface CCP! |
kattak4
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.11.05 02:01:00 -
[53]
Wow, i could make some big reply on this but i won't.
While i agree suicide ganking is getting way out of hand (just about every .5 gate has a brutix and hauler alt camping it now) it does comply with the game mechanics, they are doing nothing wrong. All this means is you have to make a friend who can either scout/web/look scary and your set. Your solution is ridiculous and way over the top.
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Ackaroth
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.11.05 07:39:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Kanarue Shinohara I will certainly consider training Transports, but to train Industrial to level 5, a prerequisite to getting Transports, will take three weeks! I'll definitely try fitting on shield, armor, and structural extenders in the meantime.
And this is where I stopped reading. 3 weeks to get into a ship to protect your precious cargo is nothing. I have spent years training the skills it takes to virtually instapop your tech1 hauler, so spend some time and train for a ship I cant kill so easily. If trade is your business, get the tools for the job. When a highsec gankers wallet is low, that kill is his business, and you better be sure he has done his time and gotten his tools for the job.
Also, plz stop making these threads. CCP has been nice even providing an autopilot. If you cant be arsed to sit at your computer, and yet still make money running stuff across empire, you deserve to get popped every now and then. ___________________
Add total value of open buy and sell orders to "Orders" tab of wallet.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=626498 |
BlackMoon Thrawn
Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.11.05 17:59:00 -
[55]
You, sir, have real talent.I give it a 9/10. To make the perfect troll post though, you need to pick a subject that at least 5% of the EVE population would agree with you on.
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Voulture
GBTeam C0VEN
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Posted - 2007.11.05 21:22:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Kanarue Shinohara [...] (Note: The ones who may disagree are probably the suicide-gankers themselves or those who may have a tendency for these acts.)
I agree, but i disagree. _____________________________________________
Gang Bang Team - Od pvp wolimy tylko w=dkę... |
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