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Widow - anybody testing one? Cloaked top speed

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Zakgram Atomic Heroes Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.02 14:23:00 - [1] I haven't got the jump drive skills so can't get into one due to the training time, hence my question. The bonus shown on the Widow is 125% cloaked velocity per black ops level. Since you can train that to lvl 5 - that's a 625% increase in speed when cloaked... So can anyone confirm how fast they're going when cloaked?
Khan Soriano Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2007.11.02 14:45:00 - [2] Covert Ops have the same bonus and with skill lvl 4 I got 25% increase so its not 125% speed per level nor is it 5% per level ----- Arbitrator - Life & Death Once Amarr, now thanks to balance team going Minmatar
Lin Dei Gallente University of Caille	Posted - 2007.11.02 14:52:00 - [3] Originally by: Khan Soriano Covert Ops have the same bonus and with skill lvl 4 I got 25% increase so its not 125% speed per level nor is it 5% per level 25% increase instead of 125%? LOL @ CCP: Basic maths: 1125% != 11.25 ------------------ If you see me post it's because either: 1) Silly forums made me do it 2) Because I was too lazy to change characters 3) Because I wanted to 4) <insert mod comment here>
Zakgram Atomic Heroes Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.02 15:18:00 - [4] Originally by: Khan Soriano Covert Ops have the same bonus and with skill lvl 4 I got 25% increase so its not 125% speed per level nor is it 5% per level From the Manticore: Covert Ops Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Cruise Missile and bomb kinetic damage and 25% bonus to cloaked velocity per level A manticore @ level 5 with an improved cloak goes slightly faster when cloaked than not. If the description is correct on a Widow then it will go a lot faster when cloaked than not. Hence I asked if anybody had managed to get into one and fly it since I've got one in my hangar but have about 35 days of pre-reqs (on sisi, with +5's fitted) for the jump crap since I'm a recon and BS pilot (40m sp) not a carrier pilot. And even if I had all the pre-reqs at rank 10 it's going to be another 35-40 days before black-ops 5.
Frozztt	Posted - 2007.11.02 15:20:00 - [5] Edited by: Frozztt on 02/11/2007 15:21:56 I haven't been in a Widow, but I have played around in the Sin. The bonus works the same as the bonus on a stealth bomber. Using an Improved Cloaking Device II at Bloack Ops lvl 5, your max cloaked speed will work out to be 56.25% faster than your uncloaked speed. So in my Sin which has an Uncloaked speed of 165m/s, it will do 258m/s. No, I do not have the skill trained to lvl 5 on the test server, but I have trained it to lvl 4 so I have seen how the math is working and what will happen at lvl 5. At Black Ops lvl 4, it's top cloaked speed is 25% faster than the uncloaked speed, putting it at 206m/s. While working out the math for this the other night, I realized that because of the way that CCP did the math on this one, we are actually getting cheated out of a 100% multiplier. You take your Uncloaked max speed and multiply it by the cloaking devices speed modifier, in the case of an ICD II that is 75% reduction leaving you with 25% of your original max. then you multiply your skill lvl times 125% to get your modifier, in the case of lvl 4, it will be 500%. Then multiply your cloaked speed times the skill modifier to get your max cloaked velocity. So in the case of my Sin, 165m/s uncloaked, ICD II and lvl 4 skill. 165.25=41.25 125%4=500% 41.25*5=206.25m/s and this matches up with the stats on the server. The problem though, is the very first lvl. The skill says that you get a 125% bonus to cloaked velocity/lvl. At lvl 1 though, you only get a 25% bonus to velocity because the multiplier is 1.25, thus giving my Sin a lvl 1 cloaked velocity of only 51.56m/s, a 25% increase. And this is the speed that my Sin was doing at lvl 1. This is different than other formulas such as the AB, an AB II says it gives you a 130% bonus to speed, so when the multiplier is applied, it is actually multiplied by 2.3, the extra 100% is to account for the speed you already have. But the cloaked velocity multiplier is not taking this into account. And the math is identical on the stealth bomber as well, so it is getting shorted also.
Lin Dei Gallente University of Caille	Posted - 2007.11.02 16:48:00 - [6] Nice writeup Frozzt, you should bug report that. ------------------ If you see me post it's because either: 1) Silly forums made me do it 2) Because I was too lazy to change characters 3) Because I wanted to 4) <insert mod comment here>
Mr Krosis The humble Crew Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.11.02 18:56:00 - [7] Frozztt's math is indeed correct, however it seems a lot of the confusion is from how things are worded. On Tranq, Stealth Bombers list their bonus as "25% bonus to cloaked velocity per level" and the database lists this bonus as "1.25". A 25% bonus to something is the same as a 1.25x multiplier. On Sisi, Black Ops list their bonus as "multiplies the cloaked velocity by 125% per level" A 125% multiplier is the same as a 25% bonus. If something is multiplied by 100%, it shouldn't change. If something is multiplied by 50%, it gets reduced to one half. If something is multiplied by 200%, it is doubled. The Stealth Bombers on Sisi now also list their bonus as "multiplies the cloaked velocity by 125% per level". Afterburners and MWDs have a "speed boost" modifier, not the normal velocity modifier that you see on webbers, cloaks, and overdrives, and it inherently works differently. Hope that clears up some confusion. -- Mr Krosis The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge.
Zakgram Atomic Heroes Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.02 19:34:00 - [8] Edited by: Zakgram on 02/11/2007 19:34:39 Originally by: Mr Krosis If something is multiplied by 100%, it shouldn't change. Try it with a calculator - with something=5 results in 5 x 100% = 5 x 5 = 25 Thanks for the results on the Sin. Shame that though - would be useful to jump in at a distance - no covert ops cloak sigh - then cloak and move into position within a reasonable amount of time.
xOm3gAx Caldari Stain of Mind	Posted - 2007.11.02 21:55:00 - [9] Edited by: xOm3gAx on 02/11/2007 21:55:14 Originally by: Zakgram I haven't got the jump drive skills so can't get into one due to the training time, hence my question. The bonus shown on the Widow is 125% cloaked velocity per black ops level. Since you can train that to lvl 5 - that's a 625% increase in speed when cloaked... So can anyone confirm how fast they're going when cloaked? 125% in decimal != 1.25 So in reality its +25% per level when cloaked so... 10075% != 100.75 != 75 100-75!=25 25125% != 251.25 != 31.25 @ lvl 5 Now you could say that 125%+125%+125%+125%+125% = 625% but your not adding since its a multiplier and the way works in reality its really 5.25 because you only gain speed from the skills not the original 0 level which is 100% and thus negated as; 100% * 125% != 25% != .25 So @1st level u gain .25 because you already gained 100 from lvl 0 thus giving you 5.25 and the following. level 1 level 5 (1.25 * 100 != 25) + (5 * 100) = 5.25 So you end up with @lvl 5 when cloaked; 25 * 5.25 != 131.25 Giving a total speed increase of 31.25m/s. Originally by: CCP Abraxas Her boyfriend's way hot, too; tall and tanned. And I say this as a very hetero male who doesn't ever dream of the man on cold, dark nights.
xOm3gAx Caldari Stain of Mind	Posted - 2007.11.02 22:02:00 - [10] Edited by: xOm3gAx on 02/11/2007 22:04:09 Edited by: xOm3gAx on 02/11/2007 22:02:20 Originally by: Zakgram Edited by: Zakgram on 02/11/2007 19:34:39 Originally by: Mr Krosis If something is multiplied by 100%, it shouldn't change. Try it with a calculator - with something=5 results in 5 x 100% = 5 x 5 = 25 Thanks for the results on the Sin. Shame that though - would be useful to jump in at a distance - no covert ops cloak sigh - then cloak and move into position within a reasonable amount of time. The way your stating it in linear form makes it not work in reality =) Because 100% != 1 A 100% bonus is only equal to the orginal. Thus its really; 5 * 1 = 5 So as you put it its really; 5 * 100% = 5 5 + 5 = 10 this is because its your added bonus ;) So if it were 100% per level 5 * 500% = 25 5 + 25 = 30 Originally by: CCP Abraxas Her boyfriend's way hot, too; tall and tanned. And I say this as a very hetero male who doesn't ever dream of the man on cold, dark nights.

Mister Xerox	Posted - 2007.11.02 22:15:00 - [11] Widow... raven... no differance at all. Widow can't use cov ops cloak, so other than getting a speed buff while cloaked it's going to be identical to a cloaking/logging ninja ratting macro raven. shrug Trinity... the worst expansion ever.
Emmerlaine Gallente Crab and Krawdad Enterprises	Posted - 2007.11.02 23:31:00 - [12] Where did you guys get the Sin's and Black OPs skill books. The markets are supposed to be populated but I can't find either of those items.
Zakgram Atomic Heroes Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.03 06:51:00 - [13] Originally by: Mister Xerox Widow... raven... no differance at all. You mean apart from 1 less launcher slot?
Sanche Tehkeli Gallente Bionesis Technologies	Posted - 2007.11.03 10:01:00 - [14] Originally by: Mister Xerox Widow... raven... no differance at all. Widow can't use cov ops cloak, so other than getting a speed buff while cloaked it's going to be identical to a cloaking/logging ninja ratting macro raven. shrug Trinity... the worst expansion ever. The widow, as black ops ship, is designed to fill a roll. Besides it get no penalty to target after uncloak. thus it can fly cloaked to get into range, uncloak, target, jam, scram, web, fire with 5 torp and watch you dying. There are tricks more than raw DPS... BTW, lol at all the formulas... 125% being 125/100 geing 1.25 i don't see the matter at all.


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