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Security Status: the math

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Slate Fistcrunch Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.11.03 00:17:00 - [1] I was watching my security status slowly increase while ratting and started wondering the math behind it. For security status gains from ratting: current + (10 - current) x percentage For a 0.25% increase when you have -1.0 security status: -1+(10- -1)0.0025 = -0.9725 Current in the formula is your current security status. View this by right clicking on your self in local and view member details. This is buggy so do it a few times to get the most recent security status. Percentage is the percentage security status change as shown in the security status tab of your character sheet. Click another tab and security status tab again to refresh the page. Percentage needs to be in numerical format for the math. ie 0.17% = 0.0017 For security status losses it appears to be (untested): current + (10 + current) x percentage* So a pod kill (5% is it?) when you have sec status of -1 would be -1 + (10 + -1) x -0.05 = -1.45 Looking at these two formulas you'll see that you gain security status back quicker the worse your security status is. You also lose less security status the worse it already is. So a pirate that plans to be able to travel in empire while still pirating in low sec will want to pirate down to whatever and then try to rat it back up to just enough to travel where they want to. So what does this mean for the pirates of EVE? If you are trying to fix your security status, it is important to know how all this works to minimize your time in rat hell. It appears that when you kill a rat, the game starts a record associated with you. This record keeps track of the toughest rat you've killed so far. When 10 minutes is up, the next rat you kill will trigger a check to see if you've killed a rat who was tough enough to warrant a security status increase for your character. If you change session (log out, change system), it appears this record is reset so you never get a security status increase. In short, find a 1.85m rat spawn and chain it. Just kill that 1.85m rat once every 10 minutes. Dock up, go cloak, sit in a pos, whatever until 10 minutes have passed then go kill the 1.85m rat again. Some trivia: To recover from a -10.0 security status to a -2.0 security status by killing 1.85m rats will take you killing one rat every 10 minutes for 34 hours. That's 204 Usurpers / Lord Admirals / Blood Popes / Angel Seraphims. If you were killing a 650k rat instead (0.17%), it would take you 50 hours or 300 rats. To get to a "true" -10 status (-10 to show on your view member details sheet ie < 9.9995) requires 193 poddings in a row. Remember, vodka helps the ratting sessions! bountySec % 500k0.16 650k0.17 800k0.18 950k0.19 1100k0.20 1250k0.21 1400k0.22 1550k0.23 1700k0.24 1850k0.25
Wind Ictiva Delta Kappa Gamma	Posted - 2007.11.03 00:30:00 - [2] thanks for that mate. that math looks real impressive, at least in my drunken state right now. as im sure it will when im sober. however i think i recall my friend ratting himself up a bit faster than that. cant be sure ofc, not being completely sober right now what level of fast talk do you have? Originally by: Admiral Love Hmm creating a thread like this is perhaps a little like sitting naked with bleeding balls in a pool of piranhas. I Won't do it again - most of you guys are pretty nasty.
Slate Fistcrunch Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.11.03 00:42:00 - [3] It used to be that you could change solar systems, kill a rat, get a security status increase, switch solar systems, kill a rat, get a security status increase, etc. They changed that. So now the most you can hope for is one security status increase per 10 minutes and the best with just plain asteroid rats is 0.25% So unless my math is way off the 34 hour figure is close to how things stand currently. I actually don't have fast talk as I heard that it didn't help much. Maybe I'll train it in the future and see what the difference is for the security status increase.
Wind Ictiva Delta Kappa Gamma	Posted - 2007.11.03 01:20:00 - [4] yeah i¦ve heard many think fast talk doesnt do anything. i¦d love definite proof on that, one way or another. Originally by: Admiral Love Hmm creating a thread like this is perhaps a little like sitting naked with bleeding balls in a pool of piranhas. I Won't do it again - most of you guys are pretty nasty.
Flinx Evenstar Minmatar Spartan Industries Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2007.11.03 01:26:00 - [5] Edited by: Flinx Evenstar on 03/11/2007 01:26:14 Originally by: Slate Fistcrunch I was watching my security status slowly increase while ratting and started wondering the math behind it. This is a good example of how dull ratting for sec actually is Of all the things you could have dreamed of while you were semi afk pressing F1-8...you chose maths Even maths is more exiting than ratting
Lord Bleu MisFunk Inc. Frontline.	Posted - 2007.11.03 01:26:00 - [6] here's my simplified formula shoot 1 x npc rat, sec status = increase shoot 1 x player (low sec) sec status = decrease shoot 1 x player pod (low sec) sec status = decrease OMFG! shoot 1 x player 0.0, sec status = aint moving Now I didnt use a calculator for that but I'm -99.9% sure my figures are correct!
Corwain Gallente Down In Flames	Posted - 2007.11.03 02:29:00 - [7] Bookmarked. I call for a sticky! --
Arekhon Mutually Assured Distraction	Posted - 2007.11.03 04:48:00 - [8] Edited by: Arekhon on 03/11/2007 04:48:41 I have been ratting an alt back up from -5 currently at -3.85 and what I've been doing is killing the .17% to .19% bs's in one system then jump to next system and kill another one, and back again. When I do that I get 2 sec increases 7-8ins apart then the third come and 15-16 after the second, then it repeats. Is this cause I'm changing systems? "Where are you guys going in your battleships?" "We are going to camp in Amamake; kill 500 carebears and 1 NPC" "Why are you gonna kill an NPC?" "See, nobody cares about the carebears!" [BEES]
Crazy Tasty Beyond Divinity Inc Terra Incognita.	Posted - 2007.11.03 05:29:00 - [9] 193? Ffs, long way to go. Forget ever going back up.
Vele Nori Amarr	Posted - 2007.11.03 08:22:00 - [10] Originally by: Wind Ictiva yeah i¦ve heard many think fast talk doesnt do anything. i¦d love definite proof on that, one way or another. my friend got fast talk trained one level and when he kills some rats he says he gets same boost to sec status on his character sheet showing up as he had without the skill
Vele Nori Amarr	Posted - 2007.11.03 08:23:00 - [11] Originally by: Slate Fistcrunch They changed that. So now the most you can hope for is one security status increase per 10 minutes and the best with just plain asteroid rats is 0.25% So unless my math is way off the 34 hour figure is close to how things stand currently. Do you have a link to where it says that they changed that? Or is this speaking from experience?
Ter Fordal	Posted - 2007.11.03 15:11:00 - [12] I made a post on this a few weeks ago, obviously raising sec status really is that boring that even logarithms are more interesting. Same maths as yours but giving the number of rats needed to get a certain change in sec status directly: I'm bored whilst ratting for sec status so I worked out how long it was going to take. S - current sec status F - final sec status P - fractional increase per rat n - number you need to kill n = ln( 10-F / 10-S ) / ln (1-P) eg. I am at -4, I want to be 0 again and typical rats I am killing give a 0.2% or 0.002 increase in sec status. so n = ln (10/14) / ln 0.998 = 168 rats If you are waiting 15 mins for each one this is 42 hours If you jumping systems and managing one every 4 mins this is 11 hours for decreases in sec status it is very similar n = ln( 10+F / 10+S ) / ln (1-P) eg. I am at 0, I am heading for -9.5 and I am aggressing (0.005), killing (0.02) and podding (0.125, total 0.15 decrease) n = ln (0.5/10) / ln(0.85) = 18 victims More usefully for me when staying on the outlaw threshold, one suicide job ~5 rats = 30 mins good ratting, yarrrr! So your calc of -10 to -2 with 0.0025 rats is: ln (12/20) / ln (0.9975) = 204 rats = 34 hours at 10mins a rat, so we are in agreement.
Ter Fordal	Posted - 2007.11.03 15:13:00 - [13] Originally by: Vele Nori Originally by: Slate Fistcrunch They changed that. So now the most you can hope for is one security status increase per 10 minutes and the best with just plain asteroid rats is 0.25% So unless my math is way off the 34 hour figure is close to how things stand currently. Do you have a link to where it says that they changed that? Or is this speaking from experience? This was definitely still working a couple of weeks ago. Seems to be every 15 mins in my experience before you can kill one if you stay in the system but if you keep jumping and killing you do get more frequent increases.
Slate Fistcrunch Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.11.03 15:24:00 - [14] Edited by: Slate Fistcrunch on 03/11/2007 15:26:34 The bit about not being able to switch any systems anymore was based off of a developer quote. I will play around with trying to bypass the 10 minute delay today and see what happens. Nice math with the logarithms there. I was just playing around in excel and did it the long way. As far as fast talk goes, the way I understand it, it just increases the security status %. Exactly how and by how much would determine how useful it really is. I don't know if it adds so that at level 4 you are getting 20% bonus or it multiplies so at level 4 you are getting 21.55% bonus. I'm going to try to get level 1 and 2 and see what numbers it gives. Then I'll see how much time it saves. Oh and to the guy who mentioned 15 minutes, I'm 100% sure it's 10 minutes if you stay in the same system. You would start by killing a frigate to start the timer. Then kill a high bounty battleship to ensure you got the battleship security gain. Then wait 10 minutes (can see time you killed something via your journal). Then when 10 minutes is up, kill a frigate or anything close by to trigger the new timer and then go find a battleship to ensure you get the high security status gain again.
Ter Fordal	Posted - 2007.11.03 15:50:00 - [15] Originally by: Slate Fistcrunch Edited by: Slate Fistcrunch on 03/11/2007 15:26:34 Oh and to the guy who mentioned 15 minutes, I'm 100% sure it's 10 minutes if you stay in the same system. You would start by killing a frigate to start the timer. Then kill a high bounty battleship to ensure you got the battleship security gain. Then wait 10 minutes (can see time you killed something via your journal). Then when 10 minutes is up, kill a frigate or anything close by to trigger the new timer and then go find a battleship to ensure you get the high security status gain again. Thats really useful to know. I have been waiting until the new entry appears under 'show transactions' for concord but seems this must be delayed by 5 mins or so.
Slate Fistcrunch Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.11.03 15:59:00 - [16] I watch the security status tab of the character sheet. You have to switch tabs to get it to update but it keeps a running list with the times. I was noticing when I was ratting constantly that the times would be 11-12 minutes apart. I got it so that I would wait until 10 minutes was exactly up and then kill a frigate and ding, security status update.
Quaintaina Minmatar Leela's Lamas	Posted - 2007.11.03 19:38:00 - [17] the life of Quaintaina in relation to sec status increase is to walk in circles: 1: CEO trying to convince me to go rat for sec status so I can join high sec wars. This takes approximately 1 week. 2: I begin the tedious process of going from -9,9 to -1,9 or better. 3: Upon reaching -5,0, I whine in corp chat and say I am so horrendously bored of ratting that I will never play Eve again, and I cancel my sub. 4: After 1 month without Eve, I resub and begin ratting again. 5: At the last kill I need to stop being an outlaw, I am promptly ganked in a bubble, and podded back to lowsec. 6: I swear in corp chat that I am never killing an npc again, and go on a pod-killing spree, reaching -9,9 again within 1-3 days. 7: Go back to part 1:
Leora Nomen	Posted - 2007.11.03 20:21:00 - [18] Originally by: Quaintaina the life of Quaintaina in relation to sec status increase is to walk in circles: 1: CEO trying to convince me to go rat for sec status so I can join high sec wars. This takes approximately 1 week. 2: I begin the tedious process of going from -9,9 to -1,9 or better. 3: Upon reaching -5,0, I whine in corp chat and say I am so horrendously bored of ratting that I will never play Eve again, and I cancel my sub. 4: After 1 month without Eve, I resub and begin ratting again. 5: At the last kill I need to stop being an outlaw, I am promptly ganked in a bubble, and podded back to lowsec. 6: I swear in corp chat that I am never killing an npc again, and go on a pod-killing spree, reaching -9,9 again within 1-3 days. 7: Go back to part 1: lol well at least you get richer while you rat ... this of the iskies :) but i've known people who traded their character or bought a second one all because the char had negative status and couldn't do empire war decs and they just hated npcing guide to game time codes
Wedge Capulet	Posted - 2007.11.03 21:06:00 - [19] You can still get it up faster by ratting in more than one system. Each system has its own ten minute timer, so pop a rat in 3 systems and then go back to your first for faster sec hits. I know some people say this doesnt still work, but I'm pretty sure it does. This is a screenie from my character sheet. As you can see, two rats were killed before 10 minutes was up. This wasn't very long ago, so unless they've changed this in the last few weeks then this is the way to rat. 3 systems, pop one BS in each and move on.
Slate Fistcrunch Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.11.04 04:47:00 - [20] That's good to know Wedge. I added a disclaimer at the top to read through the whole thread. Sorry to all for posting that inaccurate information to begin with. I'm working on seeing what (if anything) fast talk does. I'll add that onto to this when I find out.
IgnorantBliss Gallente Friendly Hostility	Posted - 2007.11.04 06:40:00 - [21] Originally by: Slate Fistcrunch That's good to know Wedge. I added a disclaimer at the top to read through the whole thread. Sorry to all for posting that inaccurate information to begin with. I'm working on seeing what (if anything) fast talk does. I'll add that onto to this when I find out. Though I've not done it personally, from talking to other people and reading other discussions Fast Talk seems pretty worthless. Because it's a percentage of the percent. So say your increase was 0.02 with it at level 4 or 5 it would end up being 0.028 or something to that effect. My figures may be horribly wrong, but the way everyone has explained it to me was if you don't go up and down in sec status a lot, it's not worth the training time to just get back from -10. ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Slate Fistcrunch Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.11.04 07:01:00 - [22] I completely rewrote the original article as a guide since you guys provided better information. I trained up fast talk and it does ... nothing. Absolutely nothing. Both the security status increase and the actual security status I have after an increase indicate that it's broken. I'll be filling a bug report after this post and see if we can't get a developer looking at it. If it did work, I would say it would be a very valuable skill indeed. Yes it's a % of a % but the numbers are close together so that little bit really helps. Let's say level 4 would give 20% (I don't know if it's supposed to add (20%) or multiply (~21%). Then a 0.25% rat would be giving 0.3%. So if you're going from -10 to -2, that 34 hours (204.1 increases) becomes 28 hours (170.0 increases). If you don't have to recover your security status often, then yeah it's a pretty pointless skill as the whole point of the skill is to increase your security status faster. Assuming that Fast Talk skill multiplies so that at level 5 it is 27.6% increase: BountyFT0FT1FT2FT3FT4FT5 5000.160.1680.1760.1850.1940.204 6500.170.1790.1870.1970.2070.217 8000.180.1890.1980.2080.2190.230 9500.190.2000.2090.2200.2310.242 11000.20.2100.2210.2320.2430.255 12500.210.2210.2320.2430.2550.268 14000.220.2310.2430.2550.2670.281 15500.230.2420.2540.2660.2800.294 17000.240.2520.2650.2780.2920.306 18500.250.2630.2760.2890.3040.319
Arekhon Mutually Assured Distraction	Posted - 2007.11.04 08:23:00 - [23] Originally by: Wedge Capulet You can still get it up faster by ratting in more than one system. Each system has its own ten minute timer, so pop a rat in 3 systems and then go back to your first for faster sec hits. I know some people say this doesnt still work, but I'm pretty sure it does. This is a screenie from my character sheet. As you can see, two rats were killed before 10 minutes was up. This wasn't very long ago, so unless they've changed this in the last few weeks then this is the way to rat. 3 systems, pop one BS in each and move on. no body reads obviously....I posted the same thing in post 8 but I did not have a screenie...ok whine over but no really it does work that way. "Where are you guys going in your battleships?" "We are going to camp in Amamake; kill 500 carebears and 1 NPC" "Why are you gonna kill an NPC?" "See, nobody cares about the carebears!" [BEES]
Scorpyn Caldari Infinitus Odium The Church.	Posted - 2007.11.04 10:35:00 - [24] Originally by: Slate Fistcrunch Fast Talk This skill appears broken at the moment. I plan to file a bug report shortly and will update this post if I hear anything back from it. They already know about the problem. I bug reported it in august, and I think a bunch of other ppl have bug reported it before that. 2007-07-19 20:26
Slate Fistcrunch Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.11.04 17:41:00 - [25] Originally by: Scorpyn Originally by: Slate Fistcrunch Fast Talk This skill appears broken at the moment. I plan to file a bug report shortly and will update this post if I hear anything back from it. They already know about the problem. I bug reported it in august, and I think a bunch of other ppl have bug reported it before that. Thanks for the heads up. I had already filed the report and got the same info from them--fixed on internal servers blah blah blah. I had filed it because at least one person had told me that CCP / a gm / a dev / someone had said it was working as intended.
Elliott Manchild omen. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.04 18:36:00 - [26] Kil 1 rat per system still works, I was doing it earlier getin a sec increase every 2-5mins
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2007.11.04 23:55:00 - [27] Originally by: Elliott Manchild Kil 1 rat per system still works, I was doing it earlier getin a sec increase every 2-5mins the great Elliott is a npcer!!!!!!!
Curzon Dax Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.11.05 03:59:00 - [28] While you rat more for more security status, I suggest that you next work out solving galactic hunger. After that, figure out how to make Goonswarm leave COAD alone. Then I'll hire you for personal work. :)
Newbear	Posted - 2007.11.05 04:44:00 - [29] I wana know how I can get past 6.5 sec . A GM told me I can only get higher by killing commanders. Any ideas? Click here for my High Security POS Service
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2007.11.05 04:50:00 - [30] Originally by: Newbear I wana know how I can get past 6.5 sec . A GM told me I can only get higher by killing commanders. Any ideas? hax the sec status tables? and curzon you are looking for god to do your personal work?

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