I like that non-combat ships are vulnerable, though I think you make a valid point. A Skiff ought to be a lot more maneuverable than it is, though I think that a Covetor is right where it should be.

So, what -is- the align time of a mining barge, one might ask? Glad you asked. The align time for both the Hulk and a Covetor is...16.7 seconds.

EFT warrier away! Stick a couple of inertia stab 2's and some agility rigs and the number is about 10s, or 13s if you just use the rigs

Well, you'll notice that no one runs missions or plexes or whatnot in lowsec in triple-plated abaddons.

Who the heck uses a triple-plated Abaddon for PvE anyways? If you're buffer-tanking any PvE content besides (maybe) incursions or C4+ WHs, you might want to rethink some more core issues than mining ship agility.

barges are fine where they are right now.

The trouble is the players -- we all want the ISK, and don't want to share it with others. It's far easier to be in a hulk + orca in hisec and not have to worry about anyone in the system, than it is in low. Which is fine ... but that same mentality should not cross into low.

you wanna mine in low? get friends, lock down the system for a while.

You can't be serious. People already get ISK in lowsec. They run exploration complexes and do FW missions and even regular missions, as I talked about in my OP. The same things you said apply equally well to other forms of ISK earning, but for some reason people still do them in lowsec/nullsec.

no one bothers to "lock down the system for awhile" when they want to run an exploration plex.

a plex takes what? 15 minutes or so? with an outlay of maybe a few hundred million isk?
Missions take what, 5-10 if you're blitzing them (though, I can't stand missioning, so ... yeah).

Regardless of the "similarities" you're trying to draw between mining and missioning in lowsec, they aren't there. Moreso than missioners (though they have a similar sense of entitlement), miners give off the feeling that they're a special snowflake and shouldn't have to do anything different regardless of the area ... it's max yield or bust.

Furthermore, there's absolutely no reason to mine in lowsec right now. If I want any of the lowends, I can mine Veld or Omber or whatever in the relative safety of empire space. Regardless of the availability of "more minerals" per refine, these hisec ores are generally better in a time perspective.

Admittedly, that 4m Isogen from the Hedbergite would also get 2m nox and 180k zyd ... but is a billion isk of minerals worth the risks involved when it's "so much easier" and "so much safer" to just mine Veld for the same amount of time and get that billion isk?

Many industrial ship also 16 second align to warp time.

...The idea that noncombat ships should be completely incapable of staying alive, even when piloted intelligently, is one of the dumbest things I've ever read anywhere. Mechanics like that aren't fun or interesting for either the ganker or the gankee, it removes player skill from the game and relegates mining to its current pathetic state as something to do when AFK in hisec.

And this is why you're not getting a considered response.

You may or not may like this but you can always mine in a battleship with lots of turrets slots. And I know no level 4 mission that takes longer than 1 hours to complete including picking up a noctis to collect a thing or two.

FEEL MY PAIN, BASTARD!

ah yes, mining ships need to align like dramiels while being capable of being tanked up to 250k ehp

get real

2/10.

Tier 1 barges should align in maybe 3-4 seconds. Yes, they should be comparable to frigates as far as agility goes. That's the least you can do for them with their utterly pathetic mining yield.

problem is i'm not trolling

ITT: Tengu's are less efficient then Abaddons, some lowsec scrublord talks about mining.

A Tengu is not going to output more than about 700 DPS while costing several times as much as a battleship...and that's assuming it is not covert ops fit, which lowsec Tengus very often are, which puts their damage output in "pathetic" range. Even those tengus that aren't covert fit usually fit that way when traveling between systems.

Tengus can of course tank way harder thanks to their cruiser-sized speed and sig, which makes them a bit better for some of the harder exploration plexes but unless supreme tanking is necessary, BSes are better.

Your comparison was PvE (Plexing, Ratting, or Mission running) Tengu's we're less efficient then Triple Plated abaddons (that sacrifice most of their low slots for tank, and skip over heat sinks) that are more then likely fit with Tachyons, got news for you brosef, Tachy Baddons don't do 700 dps. Max skilled tengu's (depending on mods) can do upwards of 950+ dps (counting in Spec V).

Your also skipping over little things like in plex travel time, you really think an Abaddon is going to beat a Tengu to a gate? I hope they serve beer in this paradise dream-world you live in. Theres a travel fit Tengu, and then theres everything else; fitting a ship for traveling through otherwise hostile space is to ensure survivability, not efficiency, although it is possible to do things with covert t3's.