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Bleach andVomit Avant-Garde Monastery Cascade Imminent 11	Posted - 2012.01.27 19:55:00 - [1] - Quote After hearing about all of this buffage a few months ago I decided to crosstrain amarr frigs and t2 small lasers. I liked my jaguar for 0.0 whatever for the longest time and wanted something new. Turns out the Retribution got shafted with only one damage bonus and I feel like an idiot for training it. I'm very new to lasers, coming from autocannons and rockets, but it seems like this boat sucks. I have to sacrifice a lot of my tank to reach 200 dps when a harpy can trump that easily with more tank and speed. Also given it's layout and pg/cpu, it seems like CCP didnt want us to naturally fit a MWD on the ret with a sufficient plate and utility high. Of course you can jam it on there with fitting mods but who wants to do that with limited slots? Fitting a shield tank ship is so much easier... Can someone help me out? I'm sure there are people who fly them regularly and have some insight. My killboard sucks and I have zero credibility. Just looking for some suggestions, not a debate. Thanks!
Darthewok Perkone Caldari State 1	Posted - 2012.01.27 20:21:00 - [2] - Quote Presenting the "Retrollbution" fit: Pulses (Scorch crystals), MWD, Warp disruptor, Small armor repairer. Kite and shoot with Pulses at Optimal Range of 15km. Half the AFs (close range fits) cannot even touch you at that distance. The other half (the kiting fits) will probably not put out as much damage as you due to Scorch crystals. Meanwhile, your armor repairer is helping to stack the fight even more in your favor and helping with drone damage. This is not just theory. I have won actual duels with it.
Liang Nuren Heretic Army Heretic Nation 704	Posted - 2012.01.27 20:40:00 - [3] - Quote The only workable Retribution fit I've come across is fit exactly like a Slicer. In theory it should put out more DPS and have better tracking than the Slicer can field while having a bigger tank. On the flip side, its a bit slower and less agile than the Slicer too... I don't know if its really viable. Then again you could treat it like a slightly slower Crusader with DHP - afterall it shares the Crusader tracking bonus. It'd probably work pretty well, but I haven't got a specific fit in mind. Also, with regards to blasters vs Retribution - they're blasters. You aren't gonna be seeing them rock people at 25km. -Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
ShahFluffers Ice Fire Warriors 324	Posted - 2012.01.27 21:24:00 - [4] - Quote I tend to prefer more tank than gank... and the Retribution has always had a special place in my heart. With the new AF buff I can finally reveal this without ridicule. I slapped this fit together and have high hopes for it... basically it's a beefy, brawling, heavy tackle. [Retribution - GoldenKnuckle] [Highs] Dual Light Pulse Laser II (Imperial Navy Multifrequency) Dual Light Pulse Laser II (Imperial Navy Multifrequency) Dual Light Pulse Laser II (Imperial Navy Multifrequency) Dual Light Pulse Laser II (Imperial Navy Multifrequency) Small Diminishing Power System Drain I [Mids] Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I [Lows] Small Armor Repair II 200mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Thermic Plating II Energized Adaptive Nano Plating II Damage Control II [Rigs] Small Trimark Armor Pump I Small Nanobot Accelerator I Notes: VERY tight fit... with AWU 5 you only have about 0.8 PG left. And I will admit... the DPS is anemic but I think that this problem is more than made up for in its tanking ability (my god, the resistances!! Warrior IIs do not concern me!!!) "Just because I seem like an idiot, doesn't mean I am one." ~Unknown
Grimpak Midnight Elites Echelon Rising 371	Posted - 2012.01.27 21:53:00 - [5] - Quote Liang Nuren wrote: The only workable Retribution fit I've come across is fit exactly like a Slicer. In theory it should put out more DPS and have better tracking than the Slicer can field while having a bigger tank. On the flip side, its a bit slower and less agile than the Slicer too... I don't know if its really viable. Then again you could treat it like a slightly slower Crusader with DHP - afterall it shares the Crusader tracking bonus. It'd probably work pretty well, but I haven't got a specific fit in mind. -Liang wonder how workable is with beams. not DLB's, but the big ones. if I recall, the retri is the only one that can fit a full rack of them and still keep some fitting space... [img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img] [quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Liang Nuren Heretic Army Heretic Nation 706	Posted - 2012.01.27 21:58:00 - [6] - Quote Grimpak wrote: Liang Nuren wrote: The only workable Retribution fit I've come across is fit exactly like a Slicer. In theory it should put out more DPS and have better tracking than the Slicer can field while having a bigger tank. On the flip side, its a bit slower and less agile than the Slicer too... I don't know if its really viable. Then again you could treat it like a slightly slower Crusader with DHP - afterall it shares the Crusader tracking bonus. It'd probably work pretty well, but I haven't got a specific fit in mind. -Liang wonder how workable is with beams. not DLB's, but the big ones. if I recall, the retri is the only one that can fit a full rack of them and still keep some fitting space... I thought about that a bit - with a T2 point + loki booster it becomes pretty reasonable to engage in the 25-35km range. It just becomes fit like a Slicer with Beams then. :P -Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren PVP Videos:-áhttp://vimeo.com/user9887127
Grimpak Midnight Elites Echelon Rising 371	Posted - 2012.01.27 22:05:00 - [7] - Quote Liang Nuren wrote: Grimpak wrote: Liang Nuren wrote: The only workable Retribution fit I've come across is fit exactly like a Slicer. In theory it should put out more DPS and have better tracking than the Slicer can field while having a bigger tank. On the flip side, its a bit slower and less agile than the Slicer too... I don't know if its really viable. Then again you could treat it like a slightly slower Crusader with DHP - afterall it shares the Crusader tracking bonus. It'd probably work pretty well, but I haven't got a specific fit in mind. -Liang wonder how workable is with beams. not DLB's, but the big ones. if I recall, the retri is the only one that can fit a full rack of them and still keep some fitting space... I thought about that a bit - with a T2 point + loki booster it becomes pretty reasonable to engage in the 25-35km range. It just becomes fit like a Slicer with Beams then. :P -Liang so it's on the "doable but not optimal" stack then... the more and more I think about it, the more that 5th turret seems better [img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img] [quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Muad 'dib The Imperial Fedaykin 121	Posted - 2012.01.27 22:13:00 - [8] - Quote try 400m plate, small rep, ab and nos + whatever its pretty beast
Bleach andVomit Avant-Garde Monastery Cascade Imminent 11	Posted - 2012.01.27 22:24:00 - [9] - Quote What's the overall consensus with the laser turret flavor? The medium pulse II's look sweet but the fitting requirements are out there. Really expected more from this red paint job...
Liang Nuren Heretic Army Heretic Nation 706	Posted - 2012.01.27 22:25:00 - [10] - Quote I don't like MP because they don't track well enough. I'm likely going to run DHP or maybe a 30km Beam Retri. -Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren PVP Videos:-áhttp://vimeo.com/user9887127

Grimpak Midnight Elites Echelon Rising 371	Posted - 2012.01.27 22:31:00 - [11] - Quote it is actually quite hard to do damage on a beam setup, but at least you can make them hit at 40km, altho it's just a measly 90dps with aurora also beams do eat up lots of grid. you can't use a RoF+dmg rig combo without using a MAPC or at the very least an extra 4% on grid (4% grid implant, does those things exist?) at the very least and if you go meta4 longpoint, you can fit a 3 ANP+dmg control on the remaining 4 lows. you sacrifice quite the damage potential like that, but the EHP gets on the 11k bracket... you still get some extra grid and cpu left, but then again, I don't know what else you can fit there... either the 5th turret and some fitting space, just fitting space, or the big beams need some change. but this is only if you try to fit beams. when you try a TE-boosted pulse scorch setup you get some nice numbers... [img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img] [quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Darthewok Perkone Caldari State 1	Posted - 2012.01.28 06:26:00 - [12] - Quote Retri needs to be buffed a little more. It is a bit too slow to kite and lacks a mid for a webber to go close range. It needs a little more speed so it can be flown like a Slicer, or another mid so it can be fit for close range. While all the AFs have been buffed, remember that its initial state was the worst of all the AFs (1 mid? Come on...), so it should receive a little extra to bring it up to level with the other AFs.
Umega Solis Mensa 68	Posted - 2012.01.28 09:59:00 - [13] - Quote Darthewok wrote: Retri needs to be buffed a little more. It is a bit too slow to kite and lacks a mid for a webber to go close range. It needs a little more speed so it can be flown like a Slicer, or another mid so it can be fit for close range. While all the AFs have been buffed, remember that its initial state was the worst of all the AFs (1 mid? Come on...), so it should receive a little extra to bring it up to level with the other AFs. If you believe it needs more.. then so does the wolf. Both MWD/point kite fit.. if you simply resist plate the retri.. you still need to put a 400 plate on wolf for nearly equally same ehp, and in doing so you cut down the wolf's top speed, agility, and acceleration to slower than a retri. In terms of weapons.. med-pulse vs 150s.. scorch vs barrage. Around 177 to 189. But lets not forget dmg projection.. 17+2.5 to 1.6+16. When floating outside of normal web range.. looking at 177 to 118ish dps. Also despite using lasers.. the retri has 20s extra before cap out with full on usage of everything. With that in mind.. since these two are so similiar in style.. and obviously slot layout.. the wolf looks in worse shape than a retri when comparing these two similiar style fits. [Retribution, PvP] Heat Sink II Damage Control II Adaptive Nano Plating II Adaptive Nano Plating II Thermic Plating II Limited 1MN MicroWarpdrive I Fleeting Warp Disruptor I Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch S Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch S Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch S Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch S [empty high slot] Small Energy Burst Aerator II Small Trimark Armor Pump I 11874 ehp 177 dps 17+2.5 scorch 2181 m/s [Wolf, PvP - 2] 400mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Damage Control II Adaptive Nano Plating II Tracking Enhancer II Gyrostabilizer II Limited 1MN MicroWarpdrive I Faint Warp Disruptor I 150mm Light AutoCannon II, Barrage S 150mm Light AutoCannon II, Barrage S 150mm Light AutoCannon II, Barrage S 150mm Light AutoCannon II, Barrage S [empty high slot] Small Projectile Burst Aerator II Small Trimark Armor Pump I 11677 ehp 189 dps 1.6+16 barrage 2148 m/s
Grimpak Midnight Elites Echelon Rising 372	Posted - 2012.01.28 10:57:00 - [14] - Quote Darthewok wrote: Retri needs to be buffed a little more. It is a bit too slow to kite and lacks a mid for a webber to go close range. It needs a little more speed so it can be flown like a Slicer, or another mid so it can be fit for close range. While all the AFs have been buffed, remember that its initial state was the worst of all the AFs (1 mid? Come on...), so it should receive a little extra to bring it up to level with the other AFs. nah, considering the potential engagement envelope of lasers (even small ones), the only thing that can be buffed on retri atm is either another turret slot (yes I know I keep saying this) and bit more fitting space, or just a bit more fitting space. wolf still needs a bit more cpu tbh [img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img] [quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Bleach andVomit Avant-Garde Monastery Cascade Imminent 11	Posted - 2012.01.28 11:52:00 - [15] - Quote What a pointless ship, thoroughly disappointed. Any target you might be interested in engaging can just burn out of your point range, from frigates to cruisers. Your utility high is useless because a Nos/Neut only reaches half of your optimal orbit. Limited to kite style fit because of only two mids, yet it's the slowest of the bunch. Less damage than comparable ships despite 4 turrets. Lacks fitting space to comfortably utilize role bonus. Guess I'll stick with a Vengeance and Jag, thanks for the helpful replies everyone!
MostSpruceOfMoose We killed Charlie the Unicorn 0	Posted - 2012.01.28 12:09:00 - [16] - Quote I was running some Retribution fits the other night, going for a MWD+Disruptor kiting setup. In a purely frigate vs frigate setup, given the rock-scissors-paper nature of these setups fitting the ship to beat AB+Scram seems pointless as, barring some sort of grave error, would always come out on top of the fight with the MWD+Disruptor setup. This leaves building the ship to combat the MWD+Scram crowd, which would generally imply they're sacrificing tank for speed to be able to catch you in the first place. As I'm not too familiar with the non-Amarr frigates any attempt for me to build a fit to test against the Retribution fit on paper is likely to not be indicative of the real world, would anyone with more experience in the other races be able to chip in with some basic DPS/Speed/Tank numbers of likely opposing MWD+Scram fits (and to a lesser extent, MWD+Disruptor, however I'm not certain the Retribution can be topped for DPS around the 20KM mark).
Darthewok Perkone Caldari State 1	Posted - 2012.01.28 14:24:00 - [17] - Quote Bleach andVomit wrote: Any target you might be interested in engaging can just burn out of your point range, from frigates to cruisers. Limited to kite style fit because of only two mids, yet it's the slowest of the bunch. This is exactly the problem, Retri is only good at mid/long range but has no speed to use that. Just to give some scale to the speeds of MWD kiting ships, with 1MN MWD: Crusader is 4009m/s Slicer is 3166m/s Jaguar is 2688m/s Retribution is....... 2297m/s ugh. Just out of the whole kiting game. 2600-3000 m/s would put it more in reach of a decent role, yet keep it slow enough not to overtake the speedsters.
MostSpruceOfMoose We killed Charlie the Unicorn 0	Posted - 2012.01.28 15:01:00 - [18] - Quote Here is the fit I was playing with the other night: [Retribution, PVP ] Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch S Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch S Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch S Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch S Small Diminishing Power System Drain I Gistii B-Type 1MN MicroWarpdrive Faint Warp Disruptor I Heat Sink II Coreli C-Type Small Armor Repairer Shadow Serpentis Adaptive Nano Plating Shadow Serpentis Thermic Plating Micro Auxiliary Power Core II Small Energy Locus Coordinator I (mainly to compensate for any Ishkur running TD) Small Semiconductor Memory Cell I Still a bit rough (and expensive, relative to the hull) at this stage but the important bits: (All 5) 153dps @ 19.4+2.5 w/ Scorch 192dps @ 6.47+2.5 w/ Multi 214dps @ 6.47+2.5 w/ Conflag 6.93k EHP 64.5HP/s peak armour repair rate 348m/s (2297m/s MWD) Cap Stable @ 36.9% (44.0% Scorch) with MWD, Disruptor & Guns 2m24s (3m13s Scorch) cap with MWD off, Repper & Nos on The idea being anything that can't catch you, you can kite indefinitely and anything that can catch you you can hopefully outlast (as they'll need to be in scram range to do DPS you can use Scorch/Multi). The big question is, in that range is is the repair and DPS enough to outlast the pursuer (not even taking in to account they can burn away from you and warp off). Most of the fits I've seen on Battleclinic with MWD+Scram appear not be up to the task, however that may not be saying much in present company. Interested to see what sort of fits that would be able to easily counter this setup, I'm assuming there would be a respectable amount. EDIT: Of course, just as I finish typing this, I made a small modification to a Jag fit on Battleclinic to get this: [Jaguar, Jaguar: was good now way better] 150mm Light AutoCannon II, Hail S 150mm Light AutoCannon II, Hail S 150mm Light AutoCannon II, Hail S Small Unstable Power Fluctuator I /OFFLINE Medium Shield Extender II Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I Gistii B-Type 1MN MicroWarpdrive Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Damage Control II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Small Projectile Burst Aerator II Small Core Defence Field Extender I Which can pull 230dps @ 1.01+4.13 while being cap stable speeding along at 2941m/s, 9.88k EHp & 37.7HP/s regen. So yeah, that would be the Retribution pretty handily it seems.
Zarnak Wulf CTRL-Q 230	Posted - 2012.01.28 15:17:00 - [19] - Quote There is entirely too much traditionalist thought and EFT'ing going on in this thread. 1) A retribution has so much more tank then a crusader or slicer it isn't even funny. 2) You need to accept that you will eventually be in scramble range. 3) You have advantages that other turreted ships don't have. A suitcase, 200mm plate, and thermic plate will net you about 10.5k EHP. You can run your MWD, lasers, and a small nuet permanently. You can easily send 190ish DPS out to 17.5km. Other turreted ships - AC and blasters - have significant falloff. AF such as the Vengeance and Hawk will take advantage of this by trying to hold them at 8-9km while pelting them with rockets for full damage. They can't use that tactic on a retribution. It doesn't work. They will try to get close which leads to the next point... Most ships that see a retributions will believe they can get under it's guns. Use a tracking enhancer to keep hitting hard. Be prepared to switch to INMF and 238ish DPS. You should also fit a nuet. I beat Enyo's on SISSI repeatedly. My passive tank could soak the damage until the nuet did it's job. A Hawk and Harpy are also susceptible to nuets. Hold range for as long as possible. Be prepared to manuever your ship with maximum aggressiveness. Edit: You should see Caldari boats and lick your chops. You should see Minmatar and not be too excited. Your target's resists are important.
Proxy of Sin Deadman W0nderland The 99 Percent 0	Posted - 2012.01.31 16:15:00 - [20] - Quote Here's a Retribution focused on damage. If you've flown a Coercer before the changes to destroyer's. This set-up mirrors the old school Coercer in projected and applied damage. The ship has superior velocity and agility compared to a Coercer, with less tracking; multi-frequency 300 damage per second (heat), scorch 210 damage per second (240 heat). There is a more well rounded set-up, with a small neutraliser and dual pulse lasers (less damage more tracking and defences). With that said. A Harpy mirrors the damage of the set-up below @ range. I've found the Harpy to be the most versatile assault ship. The Harpy and Enyo mirror each other performance close range @tleast with active defence set-ups. Mirrors the vengeance in terms of hit-points and mirrors the Retribution in terms of applied damage @ range. In fact, I prefer the Harpy > Retribution (@ every range). Retribution Pseudoelectron Containment Field I Fourier Transform Tracking Program Co-Processor II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Limited 1MN MicroWarpdrive I Faint Warp Disruptor I Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency S Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency S Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency S Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency S [empty high slot] Small Energy Burst Aerator II Small Algid Energy Administrations Unit I -proxyyyy



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