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Dubious Drewski
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Posted - 2007.11.05 22:28:00 -
[1]
What, exactly? I managed to luck out and acquire a couple of nice BPOs on escrow and I'm currently manufacturing like mad with them. (I halted combat skills for a bit so I could manufacture with at least some efficiency) I buy the minerals straight off the market, manufacture, then sell locally. Every 10 isk I spend on minerals gives me 13 isk back in sales. That's a ~30% profit margin.
Is this good?
 Originally by: Slayton Ford
a Drake is normally primaried last
And that's why I love that homely boat! |
Leora Nomen
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Posted - 2007.11.05 22:47:00 -
[2]
yeah that's good
guide to game time codes |
Kylar Renpurs
Dusk Blade
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Posted - 2007.11.05 22:51:00 -
[3]
It depends what your after. Return on investment or isk per minute?
Cooking up some random figures, I can manufacture something for 50% profit (20 million) on my original investment, but it boils down to about 1000 isk per minute.
I can also manufacture a different item for 30% profit (4000 isk) which boils down to 2000 isk per minute. Quite clearly this is the most profitable option.
So sure, 30% return is good, but how long does it take you?
Improve Market Competition!
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Simbri
I R better than Tomski Ruslav
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Posted - 2007.11.05 22:51:00 -
[4]
30% is a good margin, but it depends upon how much effort your putting into it, and what the sales volume is. If your making 30% on 100K worth of sales per day for 5 hours work, its a really bad margin, however if your turning over the 100K in an hour, every hour all day for an hours work a day, then its not a bad ratio for a new player. However your 5 months old, so id like to think you're turning over a much bigger volume
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Adrimar
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Posted - 2007.11.05 22:52:00 -
[5]
It is pretty good. However please remember that your profit margin isn't everything. If you have a 200% profit margin but even with 10 manufacturing slots working 24/7 you only make 50mil/day, then it might be better to move on to something different.
I would suggest that you not only focus on your profit margin, but also on how much profit you make per day. If by switching to something that has a lesser profit margin you actually make more isk per day, then that might just be the better choice.
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Dubious Drewski
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Posted - 2007.11.05 23:14:00 -
[6]
Ok, I see. isk/time is important too, of course. Well I seem to be making ~1230 isk per minute with this venture.
So then I guess I should have asked if THAT was any good. And the answer is likely a "meh".
Adrimar: 50/mill a day is no good? Ha! I'm not poor by any means, but 50mill a day from industry is insane. I'd like to know what the hell you could possibly be manufacturing that gives even that type of profit!
Originally by: Slayton Ford
a Drake is normally primaried last
And that's why I love that homely boat! |
Leora Nomen
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Posted - 2007.11.05 23:39:00 -
[7]
something T2 probably ...
guide to game time codes |
Shadarle
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Posted - 2007.11.05 23:48:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Dubious Drewski
Adrimar: 50/mill a day is no good? Ha! I'm not poor by any means, but 50mill a day from industry is insane. I'd like to know what the hell you could possibly be manufacturing that gives even that type of profit!
50 mil/day is fairly high from strictly manufacturing for most people, but there are several single BPO's you could own that would produce this much.
Something else you should look at is where your profit is coming from. You say you buy minerals from the market, build an item, then sell the item for a 30% profit. Do you buy these minerals from sell orders? If so you should considering using buy orders. If you use buy orders then you need to re-evaluate your earnings.
When you use a buy order you have to realize that is where some of the profit is coming from, not from the manufacturing. If you place a buy order for something at 900 isk and could sell it for 1000 isk and then build something and sell it for 1100 isk then you really made 100 isk from the buy order and 100 isk from the manufacturing.
This is important because if you place a buy order for a mineral 700 isk and sell your item for a 30% profit off that at 910 isk, you could in fact make more selling the mineral for 1000 isk.
Tanking Setups Compared
Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained |
Adrimar
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Posted - 2007.11.06 00:04:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Shadarle
Originally by: Dubious Drewski
Adrimar: 50/mill a day is no good? Ha! I'm not poor by any means, but 50mill a day from industry is insane. I'd like to know what the hell you could possibly be manufacturing that gives even that type of profit!
50 mil/day is fairly high from strictly manufacturing for most people, but there are several single BPO's you could own that would produce this much.
Something else you should look at is where your profit is coming from. You say you buy minerals from the market, build an item, then sell the item for a 30% profit. Do you buy these minerals from sell orders? If so you should considering using buy orders. If you use buy orders then you need to re-evaluate your earnings.
When you use a buy order you have to realize that is where some of the profit is coming from, not from the manufacturing. If you place a buy order for something at 900 isk and could sell it for 1000 isk and then build something and sell it for 1100 isk then you really made 100 isk from the buy order and 100 isk from the manufacturing.
This is important because if you place a buy order for a mineral 700 isk and sell your item for a 30% profit off that at 910 isk, you could in fact make more selling the mineral for 1000 isk.
All calculated using Jita sell prices. Not the best average to use, but it was the only one I could find where it was one stop shopping. Even though my minerals come from missioning, I inputed their value using what I would have received had I used a Jita sell price.
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Shadarle
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Posted - 2007.11.06 00:06:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Adrimar
All calculated using Jita sell prices. Not the best average to use, but it was the only one I could find where it was one stop shopping. Even though my minerals come from missioning, I inputed their value using what I would have received had I used a Jita sell price.
That's the best way to value them imo.
Tanking Setups Compared
Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained |
Gypsio III
Darkness Inc.
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Posted - 2007.11.06 00:14:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Gypsio III on 06/11/2007 00:13:48
50 mill/day is certainly possible from manufacturing, and from pure T1 at that. I sometimes think that trading would be less hassle and more profitable though...
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Prodigal
Caldari
New Genesis Project
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Posted - 2007.11.06 02:28:00 -
[12]
I am not very familiar with T1 production and the margins on T1 items, however, as a rule of thumb, if you are not taking in (on average of course) 5 times more than your COS (Cost of Sales) then you are selling yourself short.
Of course, that is a general rule of thumb. Other factors such of sale volumes can make or break the profitability of any said item.
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Shadarle
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Posted - 2007.11.06 02:57:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Prodigal
I am not very familiar with T1 production and the margins on T1 items, however, as a rule of thumb, if you are not taking in (on average of course) 5 times more than your COS (Cost of Sales) then you are selling yourself short.
Of course, that is a general rule of thumb. Other factors such of sale volumes can make or break the profitability of any said item.
I thought it was closer to 10 times profit myself.
Tanking Setups Compared
Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained |
John Monaghan
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Posted - 2007.11.06 03:38:00 -
[14]
Edited by: John Monaghan on 06/11/2007 03:40:36
Even though I am a new trader, it seems to me that with larger sums of isk you can observe when it is time to shift your focus to lesser margin tiers.
For example, if you're a novice with 100k isk, you could invest it in throwaway mods purchased at refining rates, and turn around selling them at 10 or 20 times the buying rate. It's not a hefty sum of cash, but your available liquid asset pool will rise quickly in terms of proportions. An NPCer the same age might laugh at you "doubling your money" to 200k isk in a day, but you will surpass them with a little trial and error.
You might invest in market goods for a long while picking good movers at more pragmatic rates. Later, you might dabble in goods worth more than ~100M per transaction and trade off the market at more modest margins after broker taxes become significant. After that, you might invest in ventures that range into the billions in terms of assets and attempt to crank out steady, low level growth. After you reach a point where your personal attention can only see to employing a small portion of your own wealth, you can easily see the need to turn to being an angel investor.
That, or just start flying Vindicators. Personally, at that point I would rather start buying people and their ideas.
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Shadarle
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Posted - 2007.11.06 06:59:00 -
[15]
Originally by: John Monaghan
Edited by: John Monaghan on 06/11/2007 03:40:36
Even though I am a new trader, it seems to me that with larger sums of isk you can observe when it is time to shift your focus to lesser margin tiers.
For example, if you're a novice with 100k isk, you could invest it in throwaway mods purchased at refining rates, and turn around selling them at 10 or 20 times the buying rate. It's not a hefty sum of cash, but your available liquid asset pool will rise quickly in terms of proportions. An NPCer the same age might laugh at you "doubling your money" to 200k isk in a day, but you will surpass them with a little trial and error.
You might invest in market goods for a long while picking good movers at more pragmatic rates. Later, you might dabble in goods worth more than ~100M per transaction and trade off the market at more modest margins after broker taxes become significant. After that, you might invest in ventures that range into the billions in terms of assets and attempt to crank out steady, low level growth. After you reach a point where your personal attention can only see to employing a small portion of your own wealth, you can easily see the need to turn to being an angel investor.
That, or just start flying Vindicators. Personally, at that point I would rather start buying people and their ideas.
For a new trader that was well said.
Tanking Setups Compared
Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained |
Proton Power
Amarr
Power Corrupts Tech
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.11.06 07:50:00 -
[16]
Here is the standard I personally use with T1 Productions. You can make 1000isk per min building t1 componets and do quick sales in Jita per industry slot, you can run 200 industry slots non stop and never have an issue selling out, so turn over time is quick.
I am not saying componets are the biggest or best isk makers, but that is how I try to gage isk.
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http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=439797Cli |
Dubious Drewski
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Posted - 2007.11.06 18:42:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Proton Power
you can run 200 industry slots non stop and never have an issue selling out, so turn over time is quick.
That would be insanely amazing to have 200 slots running, but it's already a huge hassle and time sink to supply my 4 slots with the minerals they need. I'm in my Badger MKII, forever hauling minerals. Is it time to take the 18 days to get into the Iteron Mark V?
Originally by: Slayton Ford
a Drake is normally primaried last
And that's why I love that homely boat! |
Oron
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Posted - 2007.11.06 21:45:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Oron on 06/11/2007 21:54:50
Edited by: Oron on 06/11/2007 21:47:39
Originally by: Dubious Drewski
That would be insanely amazing to have 200 slots running, but it's already a huge hassle and time sink to supply my 4 slots with the minerals they need. I'm in my Badger MKII, forever hauling minerals. Is it time to take the 18 days to get into the Iteron Mark V?
If you haul the mins you need to produce, it is a hassel because you do two jobs at once - sure you also get paied twice but its a ****load of work (AND Trit make the cargo bay smell bad for ever!) If you want produce in large ammounts, you need to let the market move your stuff or hire hands.
Iteron V is worth the time, but personaly I would go for the Amarr Industrial cause they have the better Transporters. Gallente on the other hand is "nerf save" you can be sure that every future gallente cargo ship is at least decent.
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Feta Solamnia
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Posted - 2007.11.07 06:11:00 -
[19]
It's all about isk/hour in the long run.
I usually don't really look into the investment required, but you can use an isk/hour/isk_invested metric.
Originally by: Oveur
I have access to all market data. Believe me, we have not reached anything close to deflation yet.
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Proton Power
Amarr
Power Corrupts Tech
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.11.07 06:23:00 -
[20]
I know when I was doing this, I would spend about 10-12 hours every 4 sundays.
I would first move all materials required to my building POS, I would move about 12 frieghters worth of minerals about 10 jumps with 3 freighters.
I would then install 80-90 26 day jobs.
I would then move the goods to my 2 contracts and the extra to jita via 1 freighter trip to each.
12hrs of work would net me aprox 4bil isk profit. Granted you need to have this setup pretty good, and have a lot of the correct characts to do it, but works well.
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http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=439797Cli |
Proton Power
Amarr
Power Corrupts Tech
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.11.07 06:26:00 -
[21]
Now with above stated, I plan on doing a crazy project when I get back that could net me a lot or nothing, but it's going to eat up a lot of time.
I plan on putting up over 1000 sell orders, run 80-90 build jobs at all times. No idea how this is going to work, but only time will tell.
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http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=439797Cli |
Dubious Drewski
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Posted - 2007.11.07 06:41:00 -
[22]
Wow, an Iteron with 3 cargo rigs filled with 12 large containers can haul 49,233m3. That's pretty damned impressive. Why can't my badger do that?
Originally by: Slayton Ford
a Drake is normally primaried last
And that's why I love that homely boat! |
Leya Marcsson
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Posted - 2007.11.07 10:48:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Dubious Drewski
Wow, an Iteron with 3 cargo rigs filled with 12 large containers can haul 49,233m3. That's pretty damned impressive. Why can't my badger do that?
Cause Badgers are nick named "Battle Badger" for a reason, it is more a Combat Ship than a Hauler ;)
Before Transport Ships where released, Badgers where used in heigh risk operations, now after Transport Ships have graped this role the Badger is somehow obsolet - except as bait ship for newb pirates. :)
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Dubious Drewski
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Posted - 2007.11.08 08:18:00 -
[24]
I just realized something. Some of you guys say you install 80-90 to 200 jobs. With Mass production and advanced Mass Production maxed out, one account can only ever have 11 jobs maximum. Are you guys seriously running up to 18 accounts each??  (Or maybe 6 accounts with the 3 alts each) Either way, that's insane. I'm playing with one account, and that is all I will ever play with. This puts me at a huge disadvantage now, doesn't it.
Originally by: Slayton Ford
a Drake is normally primaried last
And that's why I love that homely boat! |
Shinhan
Phoenix Knights
Dark Nebula Galactic Empire
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Posted - 2007.11.08 08:20:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Dubious Drewski
I just realized something. Some of you guys say you install 80-90 to 200 jobs. With Mass production and advanced Mass Production maxed out, one account can only ever have 11 jobs maximum. Are you guys seriously running up to 18 accounts each?? (Or maybe 6 accounts with the 3 alts each) Either way, that's insane. I'm playing with one account, and that is all I will ever play with. This puts me at a huge disadvantage now, doesn't it.
Proton Power is exception, not a rule. And I dont see anybody else saying they have so many jobs.
--
Selling apples, 1 signature each.
ѼѼѼѼѼѼѼ |
Proton Power
Amarr
Power Corrupts Tech
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.11.08 15:44:00 -
[26]
Currently I think I have 5 accounts. I bought with isk almost every character I use but 3, and use Game Time Cards to keep the accounts running.
Out of the 5 accounts I think I have 9 or 10 characters that can use 11 manufacturing slots, have Eng 5, Elec 5, and all the science skills at lvl 3 or higher.
Each account has 1 pvp character as well that is ship specific, one is a MS pilot, another is a perfect demios pilot, so forth and so on.
Over all I get bored easy so this gives me a way to do various things in Eve with ease, and since I make enough isk to cover any accounts and time cards I will ever need why not. Just of dividends currently I can buy each account a 90 day time card per 30 days.
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http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=439797Cli |
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