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@CCP How many tries to you need to patch a bug?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 4 post(s)
Butzewutze	Posted - 2007.11.06 14:45:00 - [1] Hi there, i just want to ask how many times ccp needs to patch the same bug until it has been fixed. Thx Example: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=630613 This is just one example about ccp's patches... not to mention the drone or desync-bugs.
Butzewutze	Posted - 2007.11.06 14:45:00 - [2] Hi there, i just want to ask how many times ccp needs to patch the same bug until it has been fixed. Thx Example: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=630613 This is just one example about ccp's patches... not to mention the drone or desync-bugs.
Beovvulf Invicta. Synchr0nicity	Posted - 2007.11.06 14:56:00 - [3] If you find a bug, file a bug report or post it on the feedback thread. Your sarcastic posts all over the forums are not going to get the problem fixed.
Beovvulf Invicta. Synchr0nicity	Posted - 2007.11.06 14:56:00 - [4] If you find a bug, file a bug report or post it on the feedback thread. Your sarcastic posts all over the forums are not going to get the problem fixed.
achoura	Posted - 2007.11.06 15:02:00 - [5] And it's not like they're just finishing off a new engine atm either
Butzewutze	Posted - 2007.11.06 15:02:00 - [6] Bugreport is allready filled but this doesnt answer my question. I find it ridiculous that they announce a bugfix but the bug is still there after the patch, so i want to ask how many tries they usually need. 3 - 4 times?
achoura	Posted - 2007.11.06 15:02:00 - [7] And it's not like they're just finishing off a new engine atm either
Butzewutze	Posted - 2007.11.06 15:02:00 - [8] Bugreport is allready filled but this doesnt answer my question. I find it ridiculous that they announce a bugfix but the bug is still there after the patch, so i want to ask how many tries they usually need. 3 - 4 times?
Butzewutze	Posted - 2007.11.06 17:51:00 - [9] bump
Dred Tather Caldari Warp Riders Fang Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.06 18:35:00 - [10] Hate to say it, but have YOU tried coding? fixes are not a simple matter, get a egg, smash it. thats a bug. Now try preventing the egg from breaking when you throw it at the floor. its not easy, and not a quick process.
Butzewutze	Posted - 2007.11.06 18:46:00 - [11] Yeah, i am a C++/Java coder myself so i know a "bit" about software. I never tried to write a MMO but i guess there are the same rules like everywhere -> a bug has been fixed when it is not there anymore. Thats the reason why i am asking... maybe they have some special rules there or understand something different about the term "bugfix". Seriously, i mean... why do they tell that bugs have been fixed when they are still there and noticable 5 min. after patch deployement. Who has tested this patch? Who has written the patchnotes? What about the dronebugs, they had been fixed 3 times now. What about the desync issues... they have been fixed 3(?) times for now. thx
Freddy Kuger Snakes in a Pod.	Posted - 2007.11.06 19:23:00 - [12] You have a few options here: 1. Stop playing 2. Stop whining about every little thing like everyone else who manages to enjoy the game 3. Commit suicide
Butzewutze	Posted - 2007.11.06 19:31:00 - [13] Originally by: Freddy Kuger You have a few options here: 1. Stop playing 2. Stop whining about every little thing like everyone else who manages to enjoy the game 3. Commit suicide U have 3 options here too: 1. Stop posting if u dont have something to say. 2. Search another thread where somebody wants your comment 3. Commit suicide. Kthxbye
Miner Nine	Posted - 2007.11.06 19:34:00 - [14] Originally by: Dred Tather Hate to say it, but have YOU tried coding? fixes are not a simple matter, get a egg, smash it. thats a bug. Now try preventing the egg from breaking when you throw it at the floor. its not easy, and not a quick process. I'm sorry, but this is hilarious. Just cause it shows you either a moron or don't know anything about program or both. Hate to say it, but have YOU tried coding? 'Hello World!' does not count. Fixing bugs can be easy or can be hard, it really depends on the person/situation. Without knowing much about the Eve Engine or their programmers, I'm going assume it the Eve Engine that sucks and is old. Thus why they're making a new Engine. I do think the OP has a good point, that they should not claim to fix a bug when it's easily found again in 5 minutes by a paying customer.
Freddy Kuger Snakes in a Pod.	Posted - 2007.11.06 19:36:00 - [15] Originally by: Butzewutze Originally by: Freddy Kuger You have a few options here: 1. Stop playing 2. Stop whining about every little thing like everyone else who manages to enjoy the game 3. Commit suicide U have 3 options here too: 1. Stop posting if u dont have something to say. 2. Search another thread where somebody wants your comment 3. Commit suicide. Kthxbye 1. I did have something to say 2. you don't have to want my comment, that's not how a forum works 3. Nah i'm quite happy actually, thanks though

CCP Casqade	Posted - 2007.11.06 20:03:00 - [16] Most bugs that has been fixed will come out in trinity as that is our next major expansion. If you want to make sure that the bug has been fixed, log on to singularity and check it out.

Butzewutze	Posted - 2007.11.06 20:05:00 - [17] Originally by: Miner Nine I do think the OP has a good point, that they should not claim to fix a bug when it's easily found again in 5 minutes by a paying customer. Exactly. Finaly somebody thinks the same like me. I have to say that CCP lost any believability for me... server is up at 18:45, 19:00, 19:25, 19:45... bugfixes that dont fix something... amarr need some oomph (tm)... seriously, do u believe anything they say?
Butzewutze	Posted - 2007.11.06 20:09:00 - [18] Edited by: Butzewutze on 06/11/2007 20:10:02 Originally by: CCP Casqade Most bugs that has been fixed will come out in trinity as that is our next major expansion. If you want to make sure that the bug has been fixed, log on to singularity and check it out. Thank you for ur post Casqade. I really hope that trinity will be a good extension instead of new bug-nightmare. Wish u best luck over there because i still like this game... even if u think that i hate it.
Gaogan Gallente Solar Storm Sev3rance	Posted - 2007.11.06 20:17:00 - [19] I agree... I think it was 2 or 3 months ago now the patch notes said they fixed it so that pos would remember their shield level across dt rather than reset to 50% if they were not at 100% when dt hit. This is STILL not working. I don't know how many times I have seen patch notes claiming to fix drones randomly disobeying direct orders and failing to return all the way to the ship when recalled. When you fix a bug, you are supposed to TEST the fix before you release it.
Vanessa Vale	Posted - 2007.11.07 01:39:00 - [20] Originally by: Gaogan When you fix a bug, you are supposed to TEST the fix before you release it. Lol. New here?
HydroSan GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.07 02:05:00 - [21] Every game has it's bugs. EVE is an older game (developed in ~2002) so you can expect that some of the technology isn't going to age well, especially with something as complex as an MMO. Thats what Trinity (and the RDMA/Infiniband) stuff is supposed to help with. Moving to the new network paradigm of Infiniband should solve a lot of the network-related issues EVE suffers from.
Athanasios Anastasiou Art of War	Posted - 2007.11.07 05:07:00 - [22] Well, its one thing to have bugs lying around, its quite another to say that you have fixed a bug and it is still there after the supposed 'bug fix.' This issue does not bother me that much, but it shows the CCP's extreme lack of quality control.
Phaedruss	Posted - 2007.11.07 05:28:00 - [23] Originally by: Athanasios Anastasiou Well, its one thing to have bugs lying around, its quite another to say that you have fixed a bug and it is still there after the supposed 'bug fix.' This issue does not bother me that much, but it shows the CCP's extreme lack of quality control. lol it bothers ME alot. Frankly I'm sick and tired of extended downtimes every second Tuesday evening during my prime time, logging back on at 11pm or later only to find that the extended downtime hadn't fixed what it was supposed to fix. Anyone else noticed that lag has been progressively getting worse all year? Has there been a massive increase in the number of players or are the 'need for speed' changes actually creating more need for speed?
Washell Olivaw	Posted - 2007.11.07 10:35:00 - [24] Originally by: Butzewutze Edited by: Butzewutze on 06/11/2007 18:48:38 Yeah, i am a C++/Java coder myself so i know a "bit" about software. I never tried to write a MMO but i guess there are the same rules like everywhere -> a bug has been fixed when it is not there anymore. Thats the reason why i am asking... maybe they have some special rules there or understand something different about the term "bugfix". Seriously, i mean... why do they tell that bugs have been fixed when they are still there and noticable 5 min. after patch deployement. Who has tested this patch? Who has written the patchnotes? What about the dronebugs, they had been fixed 3 times now. What about the desync issues... they have been fixed 3(?) times for now,too. thx It's very simple. They're aware of the bug and the method ro reproduce the bug. They fix the method and declare it's fixed. If you have another method to get the same bug, that's going to need another fix. Doesn't mean the first way suddenly hasn't been fixed. Quote: Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.
El'essar Viocragh Minmatar FSK23	Posted - 2007.11.07 10:57:00 - [25] Originally by: CCP Casqade If you want to make sure that the bug has been fixed, log on to singularity and check it out. Then MAYBE it would be a good idea to start to publish a changelog of sorts for Sisi, so that you can actually test the bugs that are supposed to be squashed in this version. It is neither np-hard to generate them directly from CVS when baking the patch, or to just edit some document when a new Sisi patchlevel is uploaded. As a matter of fact, you should have such logs already or I am simply baffled how your bughunters even work. With Eve's number of defects, it is simply not feasible to try to check every bug with every patch that hits sisi just to look if maybe one of them is being worked on, or if the new patch just changed some descriptions. Is that what an ISD bughunter does? Would explain a few things. The deficit is not in the coding, but simply in the testing framework. -- [17:47] <Mephysto> its dead, jim
Hanno Mir	Posted - 2007.11.07 11:14:00 - [26] Originally by: Butzewutze Edited by: Butzewutze on 06/11/2007 18:49:06 Hi there, i just want to ask how many times ccp needs to patch the same bug until it has been fixed. If you think you can do it better then go right ahead, I'll be the first subscriber to Butzewutze Online and we can all see you fix things instantly with your one man team of specialists.
Butzewutze	Posted - 2007.11.07 12:17:00 - [27] Originally by: Hanno Mir Originally by: Butzewutze Edited by: Butzewutze on 06/11/2007 18:49:06 Hi there, i just want to ask how many times ccp needs to patch the same bug until it has been fixed. If you think you can do it better then go right ahead, I'll be the first subscriber to Butzewutze Online and we can all see you fix things instantly with your one man team of specialists. Ah, next stupid comment. I am not the one here who wants to be a professional game designer. We are not talking about my product here but about CCP's product. My talents have absolutely nothing to do with that thread.
Helison Gallente Times of Ancar Pure.	Posted - 2007.11.07 12:21:00 - [28] Well, I checked the wallet-bug on Sisi and it is still NOT fixed.

CCP Casqade	Posted - 2007.11.07 13:19:00 - [29] Originally by: Helison Well, I checked the wallet-bug on Sisi and it is still NOT fixed. Then you may bug report it again with proper reproduction steps and we'll have a look at it. Sometimes other fixes break previous fixes.

Helison Gallente Times of Ancar Pure.	Posted - 2007.11.07 13:59:00 - [30] Originally by: CCP Casqade Originally by: Helison Well, I checked the wallet-bug on Sisi and it is still NOT fixed. Then you may bug report it again with proper reproduction steps and we'll have a look at it. Sometimes other fixes break previous fixes. Reported.
Butzewutze	Posted - 2007.11.07 14:28:00 - [31] Originally by: Helison Originally by: CCP Casqade Originally by: Helison Well, I checked the wallet-bug on Sisi and it is still NOT fixed. Then you may bug report it again with proper reproduction steps and we'll have a look at it. Sometimes other fixes break previous fixes. Reported. I reported it yesterday: Quote: ID:45909 Title:Wallet-mouseover isn¦t updating after walletchange. Build:Revelations 2.2.2 37459 Reported:2007.11.06 14:59:08 Description: If u sell something, the wallet-mouseover isnt updated correctly. Screenshot added. //Checked on Multiplicity and Sisi, on both servers still around - BH Lenider So the question remains: Why is that "fixed" in the patchlog?
Hanno Mir	Posted - 2007.11.07 14:34:00 - [32] Originally by: Butzewutze Originally by: Hanno Mir Originally by: Butzewutze Edited by: Butzewutze on 06/11/2007 18:49:06 Hi there, i just want to ask how many times ccp needs to patch the same bug until it has been fixed. If you think you can do it better then go right ahead, I'll be the first subscriber to Butzewutze Online and we can all see you fix things instantly with your one man team of specialists. Ah, next stupid comment. I am not the one here who wants to be a professional game designer. We are not talking about my product here but about CCP's product. My talents have absolutely nothing to do with that thread. Well you seem to believe it can be done simply by snapping ones fingers whereas in a little place we like to call reality it cant, otherwise it would have been fixed by now, I was therefore remarking on the fact that since you believe its so easy, that you should be the one to show us how easy it is. Next whine please

CCP Casqade	Posted - 2007.11.07 14:50:00 - [33] Originally by: Helison Originally by: CCP Casqade Originally by: Helison Well, I checked the wallet-bug on Sisi and it is still NOT fixed. Then you may bug report it again with proper reproduction steps and we'll have a look at it. Sometimes other fixes break previous fixes. Reported. Thank you.

Butzewutze	Posted - 2007.11.07 14:50:00 - [34] Originally by: Hanno Mir Well you seem to believe it can be done simply by snapping ones fingers whereas in a little place we like to call reality it cant, otherwise it would have been fixed by now, I was therefore remarking on the fact that since you believe its so easy, that you should be the one to show us how easy it is. Next whine please Where did i say that fixing bugs is easy? I know that it can be easy or difficult but it is never done with "snapping fingers". Do i need to be a 1337-coder just to ask a simple question? I dont think so, because i think that u dont need to be a meteorologist to talk about the weather.
Dred Tather Caldari Warp Riders Fang Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.07 14:55:00 - [35] its the fact you ask like 20 times an hour after each other (slight exaggeration) as soon as something goes past the "simple" stage, its complex, and fixing things is complex. I'd like to see you maintain a huge code project, and fix bugs for it. Go find your favorite GPL'd piece of software, download it's source and fix ALL its bugs in one go. The simple fact is its a lot harder than it seems.
prathe Minmatar Omega Enterprises Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2007.11.08 05:19:00 - [36] how many darts do you have to throw at a dartboard blindfolded to hit a bullseye? it may sound sarcastic but if you think of the sheer volume of factors which can cause a bug and all the various bit of code that need to be checked , it takes a while . signature removed - please email us to find out why (include a link to the image URL) - Jacques([email protected]) why dont you just tell me ?

CCP Explorer	Posted - 2007.11.10 23:26:00 - [37] Originally by: Helison Well, I checked the wallet-bug on Sisi and it is still NOT fixed. There was an error in the release notes but that entry has now been updated. There is already an existing defect on this issue you mention. Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson Software Director EVE Online, CCP Games


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