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Kayna Eelai
Gallente
GNATHIC
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Posted - 2007.11.06 18:18:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Alora Venoda
I remember a lot of times in WoW they had to put emergency hotfixes after a patch to make the game playable... Overall, based on my personal experience, I would say the track record for "smooth patches" is about the same.
well i admit it was probably worse in USA as they got patches 1 day before every1 else (except koreans sometimes)
but when i look through past 3 years, the "unexpected downtime" has been very little in wow.
what i can complain however, is the ****ty ISP they work with in france, with is TELIA. if your server was in a hosting center hosted by telia, you could have ****load of latency problems sometimes... but that stopped from happening too at some point.
fixed to 23.15 kB (23710 bytes) |
Cyber Blue
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2007.11.06 18:19:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Snake Doctor
FFS it's not a scam
FFS use your head
FFS it's just a game
FFS stop whining, go play Dreamcast.
FFS STOP USING FFS.
I like it when you talk dirty.
Khan - "To the last, I grapple with thee; from Hell's heart, I stab at thee; for hate's sake, I spit my last breath at thee." |
Eshezo
Old Buggers
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Posted - 2007.11.06 18:21:00 -
[33]
OK, OK, come on guys, EVE is a mssive inviroment and although I'm ****ed that the server is down, they are generally stable compared to many other games.....that said I do often ask, WHY THE HELL don;t they fully test a patch before deploying it !! afterall image the picture..............
The MOD deploy a patch on their defense system and the servers go down .... someone launches an attack and it's not detected.. Boom... simple really two aspects....
1/ I understand that they have a challenging enviroment and they don't plan for the servers to crash.
2/ For god sake test test and test before deplying the patch and then there wouldn;t be a problem...
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Milamber Farseer
Gallente
MadHatters Industries
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Posted - 2007.11.06 18:22:00 -
[34]
Total dt in a month assuming normal advertised downtime - 30 Hours
Total dt in a month with an extended downtime - 34 Hours
Total dt as people trawl the forums whining about how the server is off - I can't count that high...
Huge environment, massive database, thousands of simultaneous connections. Give ccp a break and train a long skill and keep it on for 24 hours...
My two most fav quotes:
Stylus gladio potentior,
You can please some of the people some of the time... |
Tarminic
Forsaken Resistance
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Posted - 2007.11.06 18:23:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Kayna Eelai
Originally by: Asestorian
CCP are pretty good at patching actually. Most people try to compare EVE to WoW and say "WoW can patch fine". That is often debatable (from what I've seen) but in reality they are incomparable simply because of the size of EVE's server. It's massive. The problems that arise in EVE are unique to EVE in the MMO world, and that makes it harder to patch/fix.
if u think wow server structure is so different from eves... then you're very wrong.
one word for you: CLUSTERS
and trust me, patching over 1500 servers worldwide, with several language based clients and players spread through several clusters... is harder than patching eve. and guess what, blizzard even manages to patch without going offline when it comes to small stuff PLUS they only need to shut down their servers about 1-2 times a month, not every week (they did that in the past tho)
but one thing is right, we shouldnt compare them, however after 4 years, CCP should know better already, but i guess they've been too busy playing their own game to actualy develope or fix anything.
Oh, you again. Weren't you going to quit already? 
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Tarminic - 29 Million SP in pink Forum Warfare  |
Gridwalker
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.11.06 18:23:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Asestorian
Originally by: Kayna Eelai
Originally by: Fink Angel
Every time there is a patch day, someone comes here to whine. Every. Single. Time.
Learn from that.
yepp, i learned that CCP sucks at patching
CCP are pretty good at patching actually.
I agree. Patching is painful for every MMO, and considering some of the other MMO's I've played, CCP ranks up there as "not that bad." Of course we would like "perfect," but I can guarantee, so would they!
And while I do feel a "training queue" would be a nice addition to EVE--after all, it isn't "Skill Switching Online," and the real skill comes from knowing what to train in which order--it isn't because I am worried about losing skill training time due to this sort of server problem. I only lost skill training on ONE patch, the first one I experienced, and I never let it happen again.
Keep your long skill training until the day after the patch. They've usually worked out any kinks by then. And be grateful that you can actually train your skills while you are offline--in any other MMO, downtime is completely unproductive.
-Grid
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Eshezo
Old Buggers
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Posted - 2007.11.06 18:24:00 -
[37]
OH and they shouldn;t post a notice on the client saying that the servers will be up momentarily and a notice posted o the forums, Momentarily is not a good description when it's not momentarily, rofl, they should say they are working on it and are sorry or something.....
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Asestorian
Domination.
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Posted - 2007.11.06 18:25:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Eshezo
WHY THE HELL don;t they fully test a patch before deploying it !!
They do. They test it extensively. However, as I have said in this thread already (or maybe it was another thread. I'm getting a bit lost here) there is only so much testing they can do on test servers. There are some problems that only appear when there are 30,000 people logged in at once on a massive server. They can't emulate that in a testing environment very easily.
---
MOZO
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Snake Doctor
MacroIntel
United Corporations Against Macros
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Posted - 2007.11.06 18:26:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Kayna Eelai
Originally by: Asestorian
CCP are pretty good at patching actually. Most people try to compare EVE to WoW and say "WoW can patch fine". That is often debatable (from what I've seen) but in reality they are incomparable simply because of the size of EVE's server. It's massive. The problems that arise in EVE are unique to EVE in the MMO world, and that makes it harder to patch/fix.
if u think wow server structure is so different from eves... then you're very wrong.
one word for you: CLUSTERS
and trust me, patching over 1500 servers worldwide, with several language based clients and players spread through several clusters... is harder than patching eve. and guess what, blizzard even manages to patch without going offline when it comes to small stuff PLUS they only need to shut down their servers about 1-2 times a month, not every week (they did that in the past tho)
but one thing is right, we shouldnt compare them, however after 4 years, CCP should know better already, but i guess they've been too busy playing their own game to actualy develope or fix anything.
Time out:
Pull yourself away from your own point of view a second and learn yourself some facts about the Eve cluster:
* The Eve-o cluster is the largest, fastest, and most balls to the wall MMO server cluster in the world.
* It serves up to ~36 thousand active connections at one time, possibly more.
* Several trillion database transactions occur each day. More than most banks. And it's live, too. Banks use batch processing, EVE is realtime and on-the-fly.
WoW server architecture is ENTIRELY different and so little like Eve that comparing the two is apples vs oranges.
Just some info for you.
Oh- and people who complain about down time on the forums don't have social skills, creative problem solving skills, a life, or the ability to adapt to situations out of their control. There's that too. There's plenty more you can complain about. Gas prices, for instance, SUCK.
Join Macrointel! |
Major PewPew
Four Rings
Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.06 18:27:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Kayna Eelai
i don't even now why i fall for this SCAM every single time... it happened to me like 4-5 times already...
- CCP sais "extended maintenance" i go and cancel my medium skills for long term skills...
- servers come up. everything seems fine. i log in and get medium/short skills running again
- evemon alerts me of a skill finishing... i open the game client... SERVER DOWN
FFS CCP, why do you have to scam us like this EVERY SINGLE ******* TIME? and even more important: why do i fall for it every single time, argh!
isnt the definition of insanity the following:
Trying the same thing over and over again expecting a different end result...
=D
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Alora Venoda
Caldari
GalTech
Giant Space Amoeba
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Posted - 2007.11.06 18:28:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Kayna Eelai
Originally by: Alora Venoda
I remember a lot of times in WoW they had to put emergency hotfixes after a patch to make the game playable... Overall, based on my personal experience, I would say the track record for "smooth patches" is about the same.
well i admit it was probably worse in USA as they got patches 1 day before every1 else (except koreans sometimes)
but when i look through past 3 years, the "unexpected downtime" has been very little in wow.
i agree that between patches, the WoW servers are quite reliable. but i was only referring to when patches (of any size) are being applied. almost every time when the WoW servers are having problems, it involves patches. and some of the problems and bugs that were caused by patches were frigging hilarious. with EVE the problems are usually just offline servers or nodes crashing.
~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~
Take away the risk and it would make flying around in space utterly pointless.
Take away the flying around part and you make EVE into a space themed spreadsheet application. |
Tarminic
Forsaken Resistance
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Posted - 2007.11.06 18:30:00 -
[42]
Don't bother guys, all of his responses will be along the lines of "well im a customer and their problems dont matter to me wheres my game???"
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Tarminic - 29 Million SP in pink Forum Warfare |
Susan Acid
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.11.06 18:31:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Susan Acid on 06/11/2007 18:31:08
1-It's not a Scam.
2-It's your own fault.This is not the 1st time.This has happened to you 4/5 times and you learned nothing from it.
3-If you quit it will never happen to you again.
QQ more
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Snake Doctor
MacroIntel
United Corporations Against Macros
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Posted - 2007.11.06 18:32:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Tarminic
Don't bother guys, all of his responses will be along the lines of "well im a customer and their problems dont matter to me wheres my game???"
Maybe he should go play second life, or better yet, enjoy his first one.
Quote:
Jim: You playing that game again?
Dwight: Second Life is not a game. It is a multi-user virtual environment. It doesn't have points or scores, it doesn't have winners or losers.
Jim: Oh it has losers.
Join Macrointel! |
jason hill
Caldari
Nightmare Holdings
Sylph Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.06 18:36:00 -
[45]
is it me ..or is op moaning because he can ...when he was warned to set a looong skill train ?
destroy everything you touch |
Kayna Eelai
Gallente
GNATHIC
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Posted - 2007.11.06 18:43:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Tarminic
Oh, you again. Weren't you going to quit already?
sorry, can't read u if u don't write in PINK
fixed to 23.15 kB (23710 bytes) |
Tarminic
Forsaken Resistance
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Posted - 2007.11.06 18:44:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Kayna Eelai
Originally by: Tarminic
Oh, you again. Weren't you going to quit already?
sorry, can't read u if u don't write in PINK
Fixed. 
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Tarminic - 29 Million SP in pink Forum Warfare |
Kayna Eelai
Gallente
GNATHIC
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Posted - 2007.11.06 18:46:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Tarminic
Fixed.
what? 
fixed to 23.15 kB (23710 bytes) |
Gridwalker
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.11.06 18:59:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Gridwalker on 06/11/2007 18:59:35
Originally by: Eshezo
OK, OK, come on guys, EVE is a mssive inviroment and although I'm ****ed that the server is down, they are generally stable compared to many other games.....that said I do often ask, WHY THE HELL don;t they fully test a patch before deploying it !! afterall image the picture..............
The MOD deploy a patch on their defense system and the servers go down .... someone launches an attack and it's not detected.. Boom... simple really two aspects....
1/ I understand that they have a challenging enviroment and they don't plan for the servers to crash.
2/ For god sake test test and test before deplying the patch and then there wouldn;t be a problem...
I work for the defense industry. Do you really want them to test like we test for mission critical applications? I really don't think you do, unless you like release cycles listed in years instead of months, and monthly fees in the hundreds of dollars.
When EVE crashes, no one is going to die. No one is going to lose a billion dollars. A city isn't going to be vaporized. We're just inconvenienced in our game for a few extra hours.
And even with all of OUR testing, we still manage to sometimes drop a satellite into the ocean, crater one in the desert, blow one up on the launch pad, fling one out into deep space, or simply create a multi-billion dollar lump of dead metal floating in orbit forever.
The sad fact is, no matter how much testing you do, you never really know how things are going to work until they hit the live environment. You do your best, make sure there is nothing obvious, and then cross your fingers.
Frankly, I'm always really impressed with how fast CCP manages to find the problems and actually fix them after a crash like this. Some crash bugs can be horribly elusive.
-Grid
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Pista Baci
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Posted - 2007.11.06 19:04:00 -
[50]
What about changing skill over web?
That would be good too, and you can't see 'my char' if your account is expired.
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gpfwestie
|
Posted - 2007.11.06 19:10:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Kayna Eelai
and trust me, patching over 1500 servers worldwide, with several language based clients and players spread through several clusters... is harder than patching eve. and guess what, blizzard even manages to patch without going offline when it comes to small stuff PLUS they only need to shut down their servers about 1-2 times a month, not every week (they did that in the past tho)
errrmm,
not sure where you got once a week from, The EVE servers are down once a day from 11.00am to 12.00pm.
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Christari Zuborov
Amarr
Ore Mongers
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.11.06 19:24:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Christari Zuborov on 06/11/2007 19:26:07
Originally by: Kayna Eelai
Originally by: Typhoon Class
Originally by: Asestorian
If this happens every time, then why have you not yet learnt that you should keep your long skill training on through at least the day the patch is released just in case there are any unforeseen problems with the server?
You only have yourself to blame.
No truer words have EVER been spoken in the world of Eve-Online.
jesus christ did u clueless noobs even READ my post? hint: last sentence in the OP.
Only n00bs complain about loosing a few hours on a character, n00b. So shut your pie hole and eat more n00b cake. Go n00b up some hello-kitty, or n00b your monkey while you wait.
n00bssaywhat?
Originally by: Kayna Eelai
what?
Yup, thought so...
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Mistress Oriana
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Posted - 2007.11.06 19:25:00 -
[53]
Glad i set all my chars learning energy management V the other day :)
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Kayna Eelai
Gallente
GNATHIC
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Posted - 2007.11.06 19:26:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Christari Zuborov
Only n00bs complain about loosing a few hours on a character, n00b. So shut your pie hole and eat more n00b cake. Go n00b up some hello-kitty, or n00b your monkey while you wait.
n00bssaywhat?
wow!!! did it take u much to come up with that bull? or did u get help from some1 maybe?
fixed to 23.15 kB (23710 bytes) |
Eventy One
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Posted - 2007.11.06 19:28:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Eventy One on 06/11/2007 19:28:23
Doesn't scamming involve some type of mis-representation? CCP never claimed they could apply either major or minor updates free of faults.
Clearly if this has happened to you before, either you'll learn that once a patch has been applied there is a period after which kinks get ironed out, or you'll continue to falsely think CCP is somehow trying to trick you (a somewhat paranoid and self-centered viewpoint).
I hope for your sake (and that of the the community) its the former. I hope you'll eventually learn to be patient with CCP when it makes the game better for you.
Best to you - fly safe.
Eventy One
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Asestorian
Domination.
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Posted - 2007.11.06 19:28:00 -
[56]
It was a joke flame.
Probably.
---
MOZO
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Christari Zuborov
Amarr
Ore Mongers
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.11.06 19:32:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Kayna Eelai
Originally by: Christari Zuborov
Only n00bs complain about loosing a few hours on a character, n00b. So shut your pie hole and eat more n00b cake. Go n00b up some hello-kitty, or n00b your monkey while you wait.
n00bssaywhat?
wow!!! did it take u much to come up with that bull? or did u get help from some1 maybe?
Silence n00b! You may address me when you've lost your n00biness, but not until then!
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Reem Fairchild
Minmatar
Republic University
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Posted - 2007.11.06 19:46:00 -
[58]
I remember the first day after the Revelations I expansion was installed late last year. I had just started playing right before it, and I picked that day (right after the patching was finished and the servers came back) to go northwards to Caldari space for the first time. Gates started going crazy and you had to wait in line to jump through at every gate. The autopilot took me through Jita. I didn't know anything about Jita.
Yeah, it wasn't pleasant... 
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El'essar Viocragh
Minmatar
FSK23
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Posted - 2007.11.06 19:54:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Sleepkevert
... and that patching a cluster that is in the top 500 of supercomputers is difficult.
I laughed. Real hard.
TQ has around 180 nodes. That is slightly more than 2 racks full of blades. That isn't really small, especially for a gameserver. But this is not Top500 stuff.
Check top500.org if you don't believe me.
Btw, the only supercomputer installation in London that is listed in the Top500 is that of the Imperial College. Rank 431, 1680 cpus. With a mix of GigE, 10GigE and Infiniband interconnects - an interconnect level that TQ will be upgraded to in 2008.
--
[17:47] <Mephysto> its dead, jim |
Sheriff Jones
Amarr
Please Enter Password
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Posted - 2007.11.06 19:55:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 06/11/2007 19:56:12
Just like on christmas, don't log in on patchday.
Makes for a happier, more *downs blue pills* relaxed person 
(*waits for the "i play on christmas when i SHOULD be with my family" andswers*)
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
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