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Archivian Specialatus Amarr Fairlight Corp FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2007.11.07 01:00:00 - [1] Edited by: Archivian Specialatus on 07/11/2007 01:06:32 There has been more than a few times that I have been out in gangs well away from home and behind enemy lines. Finally we get into a fight, and afterwards. We are out of Cap boosters, ammo, some ships are damaged and basically itÆs all messy. So after 1hour 20mins of getting that far out with no action, a 5 min fight can expend out resources and send us home. We have tried using carriers for this role, and they arenÆt bad. But it simply takes way too long having to access what we need 1 by one, and the logistics of it is simply silly. There has also been a few times that we have come across a gang used the carrier to jump in replacement parts or a couple of key ships to tip the balance. But sometimes in a fight you have to refit the ships to combat your current enemy. Doing it 1 by 1 during combat is a logistical nightmare. Though when you do get it right it can swing an entire battle. Or at least make it really interesting. The idea of this ship is to: Jump to a friendly fleet that is behind enemy lines to re-supply them. Act as a maintenance relay for forward gangs and fleets. Bonus friendly fleet during fleet battles. Re-supply friendly ships during a fleet battle. Bring replacement/alternate ships. Because of the above: Allow a fleet to be more versatile before and during combat. Type: Capital Ship Class: Fulcrum None of these have turret slots Amaar (The Stats that are not mentioned are the same as the Archon) Amaar Fulcrum Capital Ship 99% reduction in CPU need for Warfare Link modules Can fit 1 additional Warfare Link module per level 99% reduction in CPU need for Siege Module 2% bonus to Warfare Link effectiveness per level Can use 5 Warfare Link Modules simultaneously Can deploy 1 additional Drone per level 5 ships can access ships corporate hanger simultaneously 3% bonus to jump distance per level Amaar Racial Bonus: 5% resist bonus to armour per level Powergrid Output: 581250 CPU Output: 531 15% High slot: 7 Mid slot: 3 Low slot: 6 Shield Capacity: 65625 Armour HP: 103125 Drone Bay: 900m3 Capacity: 2475m3 Ship Maintenance Bay: 500000m3 Corporate Hanger: 5000 Gellente (The Stats that are not mentioned are the same as the Thanatos) 99% reduction in CPU need for Warfare Link modules Can fit 1 additional Warfare Link module per level 99% reduction in CPU need for Siege Module 2% bonus to Warfare Link effectiveness per level Can use 5 Warfare Link Modules simultaneously Can deploy 1 additional Drone per level 3% bonus to jump distance per level 5 ships can access ships corporate hanger simultaneously Gallente Racial Bonus: 5% to Armour HP amount per level Powergrid Output: 525000 CPU Output: 616 High slot: 7 Mid slot: 6 Low slot: 3 Shield Capacity: 75000 Armour HP: 93750 Drone Bay: 1500m3 Capacity: 2625m3 Ship Maintenance Bay: 500000m3 Corporate Hanger: 5000
Archivian Specialatus Amarr Fairlight Corp FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2007.11.07 01:01:00 - [2] Caldari (The Stats that are not mentioned are the same as the Chimera) 99% reduction in CPU need for Warfare Link modules Can fit 1 additional Warfare Link module per level 99% reduction in CPU need for Siege Module 2% bonus to Warfare Link effectiveness per level Can use 5 Warfare Link Modules simultaneously Can deploy 1 additional Drone per level 5 ships can access ships corporate hanger simultaneously 3% bonus to jump distance per level Caldari Racial Bonus: 5% to Shield Resist per level Powergrid Output: 337500 CPU Output: 701 High slot: 7 Mid slot: 7 Low slot: 3 Shield Capacity: 93750 Armour HP: 75000 Drone Bay: 900m3 Capacity: 2606m3 Ship Maintenance Bay: 500000m3 Corporate Hanger: 5000 Minmatar (The Stats that are not mentioned are the same as the Nidhoggur) 99% reduction in CPU need for Warfare Link modules Can fit 1 additional Warfare Link module per level 99% reduction in CPU need for Siege Module 2% bonus to Warfare Link effectiveness per level Can use 5 Warfare Link Modules simultaneously Can deploy 1 additional Drone per level 5 ships can access ships corporate hanger simultaneously 3% bonus to jump distance per level Minmatar Racial Bonus: 5% to Shield HP amount per level Powergrid Output: 431250 CPU Output: 595 High slot: 7 Mid slot: 6 Low slot: 4 Shield Capacity: 84375 Armour HP: 84375 Drone Bay: 1200m3 Capacity: 2531m3 Ship Maintenance Bay: 500000m3 Corporate Hanger: 5000
telxkiskisrowr	Posted - 2007.11.07 01:32:00 - [3] basically you want a fleet command carrier/mothership right?
Archivian Specialatus Amarr Fairlight Corp FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2007.11.07 06:01:00 - [4] Originally by: telxkiskisrowr basically you want a fleet command carrier/mothership right? Essentially fleet command capital, but this cant use fighters, at bestit can use 10 drones. It is also alot less powerful than carrier when not in siege mod. Finally it allows you to refit a fleet 5 times as fast.
Tek'a Rain Gallente Phoenix Logistics Industries	Posted - 2007.11.07 06:40:00 - [5] a fleet collier ship? refuel, resupply, refitting and repairs, all wrapped up in a lovely package. would love a ship like this. Yes, its something the current carriers could in thoery do. they just cant do it especially well would love even more a battleship sized version of the same, though of course lower stats, drone bay, etc. when carriers first came out I had the lovely dream they would be something like this. (of course, I also hoped Titans would be mobile cities, refineries and station services for nomadic fleets scouring the wide open plains of 0.0)
Leya Marcsson	Posted - 2007.11.07 21:06:00 - [6] This is what I thought the carriers where about - but they failed :(
Rashmika Sky	Posted - 2007.11.07 21:29:00 - [7] Originally by: Archivian Specialatus There has been more than a few times that I have been out in gangs well away from home and behind enemy lines. Finally we get into a fight, and afterwards. We are out of Cap boosters, ammo, some ships are damaged and basically itÆs all messy. So after 1hour 20mins of getting that far out with no action, a 5 min fight can expend out resources and send us home. Maybe I'm looking at this the wrong way... but shouldn't this be a disadvantage of fighting behind enemy lines? Special ops people infiltrating enemy territory don't have an 18-wheeler driving behind them with a load of twinkies and coca cola, right? Don't get me wrong, I think it is an interesting idea, but I'm not sure it makes sense for people to easily sustain operations far from their centers of support. Anyhow, for what it's worth, black ops ships might be the answer to this, allowing people to easily jump back and forth from enemy territory, in which case running low on supplies isn't such a big deal as it took say half an hour instead of an hour and a half to get everybody to the destination. Finally, this is really more of a problem with cap boosters than anything else - if everyone didn't need to use cap boosters, they'd have plenty of room for ammo and wouldn't run out of cap boosters since they wouldn't be using them. Ships operating behind enemy lines should also be able to repair themselves, so that shouldn't be an issue either. In this case, none of the problems quoted would exist. Just a point. -Rash
Lady Melandhra	Posted - 2007.11.07 22:12:00 - [8] People do deserve to have home advantage, so perhaps some way of preventing such a logistics base from being able to jump into Sov3/4 systems (though I guess cyno jammers will partially do this, in most cases).
Quesa Ketahl	Posted - 2007.11.07 22:51:00 - [9] Edited by: Quesa Ketahl on 07/11/2007 22:51:34 I find it terrible the amount of time it takes to change fittings and get more ammo using a CorpHanger Array or a Carrier. They really need to work on optimizing the process. Maybe thats what needs to happen? But I do like the idea of Capital ships moving to more of a logistics role. Kudo's for that. PS. I like what the above poster said.
Archivian Specialatus Amarr Fairlight Corp FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2007.11.07 23:17:00 - [10] Originally by: Rashmika Sky Maybe I'm looking at this the wrong way... but shouldn't this be a disadvantage of fighting behind enemy lines? Special ops people infiltrating enemy territory don't have an 18-wheeler driving behind them with a load of twinkies and coca cola, right? -Rash Well I'm sure they would communicate with base, request a supply drop and then head to rendezvous. Which was the idea of this ship. It could meet them maybe slightly outside of enemy territory or just inside to do the resupply. But most likely not very deep within the territory. Key systems would have cyno jammers, deep teritory would noticw a cyno. The risk would be that you and the refitting ships could not cloak during the op due to proximity to each other. The ship has to wait for the cap to recharge because of the jump. And juggling fuel and supplies would limit how far it could jump and still get back out to safety. With cap recharge and depending on the number of ships your re-supplying, you could be vunerable in enemy space for anything from 20mins to 1hr. And if your crap at managing the logistics of it all it could take even longer. Originally by: Rashmika Sky Don't get me wrong, I think it is an interesting idea, but I'm not sure it makes sense for people to easily sustain operations far from their centers of support. Anyhow, for what it's worth, black ops ships might be the answer to this, allowing people to easily jump back and forth from enemy territory, in which case running low on supplies isn't such a big deal as it took say half an hour instead of an hour and a half to get everybody to the destination. Finally, this is really more of a problem with cap boosters than anything else - if everyone didn't need to use cap boosters, they'd have plenty of room for ammo and wouldn't run out of cap boosters since they wouldn't be using them. Ships operating behind enemy lines should also be able to repair themselves, so that shouldn't be an issue either. In this case, none of the problems quoted would exist. Just a point. -Rash Still you have raised good points. I was hoping it would solve those problems but for small numbers and make it hurt less for large numbers. It seems their isn't enough risk for the reward you get. Maybe if it couldnt jump to sov 3/4 systems like mentioned above it could work. But i dont see how to argue that penalty realistically. On the other hand: As a Maintenance relay for slowly advancing/ retreating fleets to coordinate with, i think it works pretty well.
Archivian Specialatus Amarr Fairlight Corp FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2007.11.09 01:02:00 - [11] Well after thinking about it. I figure, if you have a black ops team your going to try and send supply drops. The risks, to me at least, are pretty high. You not likely going to run these kind of black ops missions behind a small corps lines, and a large corp does still have home advantage in that they completely surround you and are constantly looking out for enemy cyno's. On top of transport costs and replacement parts or ships and all the rest. The longer you team is out there, the more expensive it is, so that team had better be doing enough financial damage to make supplying them worth while. If you can find a way to keep resupplying your squadren that basically means that 1. The squad are doing well (there for should be rewarded) 2. The enemy arent very good at defending or hunting them down. 3. the enemy dont police the terretory they have properly. 4. The enemy cant handle the logistics to look after their own terretory properly. Basically the enemy still hold the home advantage both industrially and pvp wise. Good logistics of you alliance and space will quickly stop any black ops squad from doing any worth while damage.

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