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People stealing your wrecks? Players intruding your missions?

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Oldin Kinrod	Posted - 2007.11.08 01:29:00 - [1] After reading way too many threads on these topics - as they seem to cross over a lot - I decided to gather as many threads on the matter as I could and condense them down into one thread of links. Please read these first before posting yet another thread on a tired argument. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=524367 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=516111 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=509742 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=508034 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=529188 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=595806 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=441355 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=523216 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=510561 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=516129 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=502219 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=492541 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=523147 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=491533 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=628851 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=624725 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=631607 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=630937 Link to a thread with a dev response on wreck salvaging This is just from the first 20 pages of a search for "salvage wrecks" across the forums. I'm sure there are more so please feel free to add them. Hopefully this will cut down the reposts of the same topic over and over again. Enjoy the light reading :D
Stakhanov The Good Fellas	Posted - 2007.11.08 01:39:00 - [2] Interesting new type of thread. Could do it for lots of other topics as well... Originally by: F'nog One does not simply log into Jita.
Shilikahn	Posted - 2007.11.08 01:46:00 - [3] Actually its very easy to do. I was surprised how easy it was. People hang out before entering the first gate. and you're found in 20secs. leave drones outside the first gate and you're found. Its just too easy in a high sec area to do. Don't do stupid mistakes when you are in an area that it goes on in.
Shilikahn	Posted - 2007.11.08 01:51:00 - [4] Edited by: Shilikahn on 08/11/2007 01:50:55 double post sorry
syphurous Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2007.11.08 01:53:00 - [5] I bet Xaen is in every single one ! ___ All Ur Salvage R Belong 2 Me !
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2007.11.08 02:10:00 - [6] Originally by: syphurous I bet Xaen is in every single one ! I'm probably in every one of the damn things. Argh, now I'm in this one too. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
Acoco Osiris Gallente Sublime.	Posted - 2007.11.08 02:54:00 - [7] This... should be stickied as a reminder of "why not to make the same damn arguement for the 35'th time and just use search". ------------------------------ One more soldier off to war... And one Velator in my hangars.
NightF0x Gallente Chicken Coup Raiders	Posted - 2007.11.08 03:55:00 - [8] Probing down a mission runner isn't as easy as you carebears think it is. First you have to train up a decent prober (Cov Ops works well). Then you have to buy the probes (20k-50k per probe). After that you warp around to random drones looking for a mission runner. Apparently you have just no idea how many drones are left in empire space that have no owners. Out of the couple of dozen attempts that I have made I have only came across an active mission site 2-4 times. No where near worth the time and effort to annoy someone. They make asteroid belts for that.
Oldin Kinrod	Posted - 2007.11.08 04:01:00 - [9] Originally by: Tsanse Kinske Originally by: syphurous I bet Xaen is in every single one ! I'm probably in every one of the damn things. Argh, now I'm in this one too. Ahahahaha! you shall nevere escape ... Wait, where'd do you think you're going? Come back here... Originally by: Stakhanov Interesting new type of thread. Could do it for lots of other topics as well... I'm seeing if this new approach might work - instead of threads that should only be a page spanning over 3 and going around in circles Originally by: Acoco Osiris This... should be stickied as a reminder of "why not to make the same damn arguement for the 35'th time and just use search". Thanks, and if it does get stickied I will be flattered. As for people not searching - I think it's because it's easier to make a new thread than use the small box at the top right of the screen.
Oldin Kinrod	Posted - 2007.11.08 21:10:00 - [10] Edited by: Oldin Kinrod on 08/11/2007 21:10:28 keeping this seen
Oldin Kinrod	Posted - 2007.11.11 23:53:00 - [11] bumped again. can I get this stickied?
Snake Doctor MacroIntel United Corporations Against Macros	Posted - 2007.11.12 01:15:00 - [12] Good God- this needs glue. you all know my position- ADAPT OR STFU NOOB! Join Macrointel!
Mister Xerox	Posted - 2007.11.12 01:29:00 - [13] There is one incredibly simple fix that CCP should implement: Salvaging a wreck does not spawn a can. The loot in the wreck goes directly to your cargo. Since the loot belongs to the person who generated the wreck they either have to take the loot out for you to salvage... or the 'autoscoop' of loot during salvage = loot theft = aggro. OFC, if the salvage thief is hoping for that he'll have a corpie at a nearby planet aligned to you for a warp in with his gankfleet.
Devian 666 Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.12 01:36:00 - [14] Originally by: Mister Xerox There is one incredibly simple fix that CCP should implement: Salvaging a wreck does not spawn a can. The loot in the wreck goes directly to your cargo. Since the loot belongs to the person who generated the wreck they either have to take the loot out for you to salvage... or the 'autoscoop' of loot during salvage = loot theft = aggro. OFC, if the salvage thief is hoping for that he'll have a corpie at a nearby planet aligned to you for a warp in with his gankfleet. Salvage is salvage. There's no such thing as a salvage thief. Marine salvage. In fact given that this is pure salvage you should be paying the salvager for the recovery. In fact you could pay them for the salvage if you don't then they have every right to claim what they have salvaged. However, people instead of being enterprising while playing eve instead complain about something that will not change. Quote: "... I doubt they would have the skillpoints and cap fleet to take and make soverignty over a large established alliance like BoB."
Oldin Kinrod	Posted - 2007.11.12 04:24:00 - [15] Originally by: Mister Xerox Salvaging a wreck does not spawn a can. The loot in the wreck goes directly to your cargo. Last time I checked - when you slavage a wreck that has loot in it - the loot gets jettisoned into it's own container. And just so we are clear Savlage != Loot. You need specialised skills to make any use of a wreck, you don't to be able to get loot (This has nothing to do with blowing the rats/ships up). Think of it like this: One fine EVE day you decided to go out and test you guns - so you warp to the nearest belt and start showing some rats who's boss. Events transpire like so: You enter the belt and target your first rat You lock on and start firing your guns After a while he blows up - and happens to be carrying some loot in the wreck of his ship. At this point we break off - regardless of what skills you have there are 2 things you can do: Loot the wreck Salvage the wreck Now with the first one, anyone and their dog can Loot the wreck, regardless of ship setup/skillpoints/planetary alignment. But when you try to do the second one you need specialised skills and tools to make any use of the wreck, otherwise it's just space rubbish. This is exactly (afaik from reading many forums on this) how CCP are treating wrecks. So if wrecks are just rubbish - unless you have the tools on hand right there - then nayone can have at it. If someone then warps into the belt and sees the wreck, and you just sitting there staring at it, or flying off and blowing up more rats, he has every right to clean up the rubbish you have left behind. This is the game mechanic that has been stated as intended.
Corbin Vega	Posted - 2007.11.12 05:43:00 - [16] Hehe, how long did it take you to reach your "specialized field" of salvaging =P Hate to you this but every man and his dog can salvage too! Hell, new characters can even get a free salvaging skill book. Salvaging goes hand in hand with looting I'm afraid and the wrecks are named so they are not just anyones. Love how ppl like to rationalize with the excuse that wrecks are space junk, if it's junk then why did you train your "specialized" profession to salvage them=P. I can tell you why, it's because salvage is worth more than the pathetic loot that drops from rats and you risk nothing to make free isk."mumbles something about risk vs reward" If you want to be an EVE garbologist I have no problem with that and ppl cleaning up scattered wrecks is a good thing. Also how i beleive it was supposed to be implemented...salvaging ppls kills in missions is a different ball park. So, you can see why ppl want the chance to defend their kills...ppl do want more PvP don't they?
Hannobaal Gallente Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.12 05:50:00 - [17] Originally by: Mister Xerox There is one incredibly simple fix that CCP should implement: Salvaging a wreck does not spawn a can. The loot in the wreck goes directly to your cargo. Since the loot belongs to the person who generated the wreck they either have to take the loot out for you to salvage... or the 'autoscoop' of loot during salvage = loot theft = aggro. The way it was at first was you couldn't salvage a wreck without taking the loot out first, and then CCP intentonally changed it to the system we have now specifically to allow people to salvage wrecks where the loot belongs to someone else without being flagged. CCP doesn't want you to be able to shoot someone for salvaging your wrecks. CCP doesn't think the salvage belongs to anyone other than whomever salvages first. CCP doesn't think it's theft.
Oldin Kinrod	Posted - 2007.11.12 06:18:00 - [18] Edited by: Oldin Kinrod on 12/11/2007 06:22:27 Originally by: Corbin Vega Hehe, how long did it take you to reach your "specialized field" of salvaging =P Hate to you this but every man and his dog can salvage too! Hell, new characters can even get a free salvaging skill book. Salvaging goes hand in hand with looting I'm afraid and the wrecks are named so they are not just anyones. Love how ppl like to rationalize with the excuse that wrecks are space junk, if it's junk then why did you train your "specialized" profession to salvage them=P. I can tell you why, it's because salvage is worth more than the pathetic loot that drops from rats and you risk nothing to make free isk."mumbles something about risk vs reward" If you want to be an EVE garbologist I have no problem with that and ppl cleaning up scattered wrecks is a good thing. Also how i beleive it was supposed to be implemented...salvaging ppls kills in missions is a different ball park. So, you can see why ppl want the chance to defend their kills...ppl do want more PvP don't they? I never said that it didn't take long to learn the needed skills to salvage - but I did point out the difference between the "Loot" and the "Salvage". And as for the two going hand in hand.. Well there are quite a few players that don't bother salvaging so that point is invalid. Quote: Love how ppl like to rationalize with the excuse that wrecks are space junk, if it's junk then why did you train your "specialized" profession to salvage them Hmmm, lets see here.. Ahh, so if I don't have the skills - is it not junk? Just because "everyone" has the skills doesn't change what they are in game. Quote: I can tell you why, it's because salvage is worth more than the pathetic loot that drops from rats and you risk nothing to make free isk. And guess who's to blame for that... it's not CCP. Quote: the wrecks are named so they are not just anyones And this is proof that you haven't read any of the threads posted above - because if you did you would know the ONLY reason wrecks are named is so you can use a tractor beam on it. Other than that - wrecks are noting more that floating piles of twisted metal waiting for someone to scrounge through it with their salvager to find anything useful. Oh look, there's that skill thing again. Quote: salvaging ppls kills in missions is a different ball park. So, you can see why ppl want the chance to defend their kills...ppl do want more PvP don't they? No it's not. Have you tried to scan down a mission? and according to your logic it doesn't take long to get the specialised skills for that either. To actually scan down a mission you really need to find drones - which has been posted on these forums quite a bit. but even then, saying you have mapped out the system with probes (about a couple of minutes work if you know what you're doing) you still have to narrow down your scan which can take upwards of about 30 minutes - if you're lucky.
SiJira	Posted - 2007.11.12 19:49:00 - [19] please sticky ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn [yellow]Kaem
Xaen Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.11.12 20:02:00 - [20] Originally by: syphurous I bet Xaen is in every single one ! rofl /me feels loved. Now that you mention it, I should go through all of those and bump them... Kidding! -- Support fixing the EVE UI \| Suggest Jita fixes
Xaen Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.11.12 20:18:00 - [21] But don't you think that if there are THAT many threads about it that just....maybe something needs changed? I'd be happy with any number of solutions, such as: Increase difficulty of scanning out missions Flag salvage thieves Implement secure, transferrable Salvage Rights(TM) Open to suggestions But instead of proposing constructive solutions, I mostly see "IT'S NOT STEELING!!1ONE LULZ" (paraphrased) -- Support fixing the EVE UI \| Suggest Jita fixes
cal nereus Perkone	Posted - 2007.11.12 20:56:00 - [22] Edited by: cal nereus on 12/11/2007 20:57:49 Quote: "You leave your brand new Lexus out on the street and I come along and car-jack it, take it to a garage, scrap all the valuable parts from it and sell them." VS "You leave your ancient Trabant at a car graveyard and I come along and scrap the valuable parts from it and use them to recreate my own Trabant." My point is not everyone salvages. Wrecks left behind by people who have no intention of salvaging them should not be used to trap salvagers into being flagged. Just like if you leave a can on the street and someone picks it up for recycling you're not allowed to report them to the police after beating the crap out of them. Hope that clarifies our stance somewhat. Like I said, we're looking into alternatives. ~ Prism X I like how the Dev put it. --- Join BH-DL Skills
syphurous Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2007.11.12 21:09:00 - [23] Originally by: Xaen But don't you think that if there are THAT many threads about it that just....maybe something needs changed? The thing that needs to be changed is the same people and their alts need to get over it. Most of the whiners are new to Eve and still think Eve = WoW. ___ All Ur Salvage R Belong 2 Me !
Lacranora Gallente Pagan Rites Corp	Posted - 2007.11.12 21:15:00 - [24] ugg.... Hey, posted this before, said it before, going to say it again. I'm new, and I love to salvage wrecks. Pretty simple stuff, you kill it, I take it. I leave anything that would be in the cargo hull, no need to be greedy mind you. I make a rather good sum following people around. I always ask first, most blow me off like I don't exist. So fine, your going to be a punk as$ about answering someone, then you get what you deserve. If you really wanted it that badly, you would hook your ship of with a salvager. Now, of course you all don't do that, and instead you whine that someone came and took your stuff. Boohoo Originally by: Mimiru i store my money in a pouch i've sewn into my own skin. Its the only way to be sure.
Jenny Spitfire Caldari	Posted - 2007.11.12 21:17:00 - [25] Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 12/11/2007 21:18:49 I am neutral. On one hand, I think it is a bit lame because players can steal without repercussions. On the other, it is garbage and it is nobody's. But if I have my way, I would get the Devs to code in access rights to salvage. Wreck can only be salvaged by corp members of the pilot who loses the ship and by pilots of corp who killed the ship. Any wreck in space for more than 30 minutes would be nobody's and is garbage. Otherwise Concord will spank naughties. --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Kali is for KArebearLIng. I 100% agree with Avon. Female EVE gamers? Mail Zajo or visit WGOE.Public in-game.
Steel Tigeress Gallente Ravenous Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.11.12 21:38:00 - [26] wrecks should work in this way: Wrecks that are in Deadspace: I.E. a mission. SHould flag anyone attempting to salvage them. BUT once the mission is completed the flagging should be disabled, and wreckage should be probeable. This way a mission runner can salvage his wrecks by not completing the mission if he wants. If he doesnt want the salvage he can complete the mission, and then a salvager would be able to scan down the wrecks
Devian 666 Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.12 22:00:00 - [27] Originally by: Xaen But don't you think that if there are THAT many threads about it that just....maybe something needs changed? I'd be happy with any number of solutions, such as: Increase difficulty of scanning out missions Flag salvage thieves Implement secure, transferrable Salvage Rights(TM) Open to suggestions But instead of proposing constructive solutions, I mostly see "IT'S NOT STEELING!!1ONE LULZ" (paraphrased) I don't think there is a problem so no solution is needed. The issue you appear to be having is that you are in empire. Move to 0.0 and you'll find more wrecks to salvage than you could ever care about. Quote: "... I doubt they would have the skillpoints and cap fleet to take and make soverignty over a large established alliance like BoB."
Devian 666 Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.12 22:05:00 - [28] Originally by: Steel Tigeress wrecks should work in this way: Wrecks that are in Deadspace: I.E. a mission. SHould flag anyone attempting to salvage them. BUT once the mission is completed the flagging should be disabled, and wreckage should be probeable. This way a mission runner can salvage his wrecks by not completing the mission if he wants. If he doesnt want the salvage he can complete the mission, and then a salvager would be able to scan down the wrecks Another solution that people do not appear to be considering is that they do not have to run their missions in major hubs. You could use some of the other high quality lvl 4 areas that have few people and no mission invaders. Quote: "... I doubt they would have the skillpoints and cap fleet to take and make soverignty over a large established alliance like BoB."
Xaen Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.11.12 22:16:00 - [29] Originally by: Steel Tigeress wrecks should work in this way: Wrecks that are in Deadspace: I.E. a mission. SHould flag anyone attempting to salvage them. BUT once the mission is completed the flagging should be disabled, and wreckage should be probeable. This way a mission runner can salvage his wrecks by not completing the mission if he wants. If he doesnt want the salvage he can complete the mission, and then a salvager would be able to scan down the wrecks No. Because I turn in my missions before completing salvaging so that deadspace is "turned off" and my salvaging destroyer can use a MWD. But your heart is in the right place. -- Support fixing the EVE UI \| Suggest Jita fixes
Xaen Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.11.12 22:18:00 - [30] Originally by: Devian 666 The issue you appear to be having is that you are in empire. Move to 0.0 and you'll find more wrecks to salvage than you could ever care about. Yeah, cause getting probed out and my mission ship getting exploded is so preferable to having salvage stolen. -- Support fixing the EVE UI \| Suggest Jita fixes

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