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Idea: we need stuff to fight over

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Malachon Draco eXceed Inc.	Posted - 2007.11.08 15:45:00 - [1] One of the main problems for Eve atm I think is that there are very few reasons to fight. Docking up or logging off is generally more beneficial than fighting. So what we need is a way, without forcing people to fight (you can't force people anyway, they can always log), to encourage people to fight in a big way. The biggest reason atm for fighting is because of POSses. Unfortunately, it takes huge fleets to get actually anything done. For a good reason of course, you don't want to return to station pingpong where 5 guys in the middle of the night can take away your station. But there are other options to fight for. Let's start for example with mining: What would happen if we introduced mining platforms. Mining platforms that can be anchored in a belt and that will start mining asteroids and ice near them and slowly fill up over a day or two with minerals. Give them a million in armor, shields and hull, and no defences. And let them mine as fast as a well-equipped hulk. Benefit is obvious, you don't have to spend a day mining mindlessly in belts shoving ore from your cargo to a jetcan etc etc etc. Downside is also obvious, if an enemy gang is incoming, you won't have time to save them, they can't logoff, and it takes too long to unanchor them and get them to safety. So either you fight to defend them, or they die. Taking it one step further, what would happen if we made asteroids destroyable? Sure, you can hide your hulks in station or POS, but if that enemy gang proceeds to blow up all the mercoxit, arkonor, bistot, crokite roids in your nice -1.0 system, you're not gonna be able to mine effectively until they respawn. Well, except if you defend them. Another step further: moonmining. What if we make it impossible for large and medium POS to fit any kind of moonmining stuff. And give small POS specific bonuses so they can run a full set of moonminers and even a reactor to run a reaction, but at the same time take away their strontium bay. What you then have is a highly lucrative set of hardware, that can generate a lot of isk, but only if you keep it alive. And strontium timers won't save it. So either you defend it, or it dies. Final possible step: add the rats to the system. An idea would be to introduce something like a Rat complex in every constellation. That complex would be accessible to everyone (no deadspace/no passkeys). If you run it, and blow up the base, you should get somewhere between 1b and 3b in bounty and faction gear. But if you blow it up, it also means that there will be no ratting respawn in the whole constellation for as long as it takes for the pirates to 'rebuild' their base. And rebuilding could be set to take anywhere between 3-5 days for example. All these things would provide things to fight over for people, and encourage them not to logout or hide in POS or stations. Also, it has no relation to sovereignty, so while you could greatly hurt an alliance like this by targeting their iskmaking, you don't enable a small gang to take out the sovereignty of a whole alliance due to timezone advantages and such. ------------------------------------------------
BlckJck Ethereal Technologies STYX.	Posted - 2007.11.08 16:11:00 - [2] The Mining Platform idea isn't bad. Limit it to 1/2 per system and give it enough HP to be destroyed by a normal roaming gang within 10-20 minutes. Give directors aggression messages, so they no where to go for a fight. Also give it a long De/Anchoring period 3-4 hours so that their just left there and can't be easily scooped whenever a gang gets close. ------------------------------------
Ellaine TashMurkon CBC Interstellar	Posted - 2007.11.08 16:23:00 - [3] You're extremly right and Your ideas are so good that even I had simmilar ones some time ago :) Limited contestable resources everywhere!
Princess Jodi Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.11.08 18:03:00 - [4] You have plenty to fight over - in 0.0 space. When you want to have a reason to hold/take space, its all out in the big ohh-ohh. Complexes, Cosmos Agent sites, Moon Mining, Soverignty Towers, Jump Bridges, Cyno Jammers, Stations and Outposts. As far as forcing/encouraging people to fight: If you don't defend your space, you'll wake up one day unable to dock. If that don't motivate you to fight, I doubt you'd EVER choose to fight. Mining platforms are the solo-player's version Macro Mining Farmers. I seriously doubt that CCP will ever introduce methods that allow that type of activity.
Zarch AlDain The Establishment Establishment	Posted - 2007.11.08 18:41:00 - [5] Some nice ideas, I don't like the mining platform as an afk miner though... It should be in the belt with players and helping them mine - and taking enough time to unanchor that they have a reason to defend it. Perhaps it gives gang bonusses or just acts like a massive GSC that automatically tractors in cans and empties them into itself. That sort of competes with the Rorqual tho. It should definitely have nice loads of hp but no offence, so it takes time to kill it to let the miners mount a response. Zarch AlDain
Archivian Specialatus Amarr Fairlight Corp FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2007.11.08 20:01:00 - [6] We do need other reasons to fight but i dont think those ones would work. how about this. Industry Specific Stations So IÆm thinking that there should be something like: Industry Specific Stations (ISS) Reactor Stations Science Stations Refining Stations Factory Stations Battle Stations (IÆll come to that later) The Reactor, Science, Refining and Factory Stations will all follow the same format. But lets take the Science station for the example. Base Price: 800,000,000 isk Small Amaar Science Station compared to a Small Amaar POS: All the base stats will be the same as a Small POS except for 4: Small Amaar POS Power Grid Output: 1250000 Small Amaar Science Station Power Grid will be 20% less: 1000000 Small Amaar POS CPU Output: 1375 Small Amaar Science Station POS CPU Output will be 20% less: 1100 Small Amaar POS Armour Hitpoints: 2500000 Small Amaar Science Station Armour Hitpoints will be 20% less: 2000000 Small Amaar POS Shield Hitpoints: 10,000,000 Small Amaar Science Station Shield Hitpoints will be 20% less: 8,000,000 Small Amaar POS Racial Bonuses: 50% bonus to Energy Sentry Optimal Range 25% bonus to Energy Sentry Damage 50% bonus to Silo Cargo Capacity Small Amaar Science Station: 30% bonus to each Laboratory Starbase Structure efficiency. 20% reduction of powergrid need for Laboratory Starbase Structures. 20% reduction of CPU need for Laboratory Starbase Structures. 50% increase of POS fuel and Strontium consumption. Basically the small, medium and large science stations would have the same stats as their POS counterparts except for the 20% hit to power grid, CPU, shield hitpoint amount and armour hitpoint amount and it the 50% increase in fuel consumption. The Station bonus and price will change depending on the size of the science station: Medium Amaar Science Station: 40% bonus to each Laboratory Starbase Structure efficiency. 20% reduction of powergrid need for Laboratory Starbase Structures. 20% reduction of CPU need for Laboratory Starbase Structures. 50% increase of POS fuel and Strontium consumption. Base Price:2,500,000,000 isk Large Amaar Science Station: 50% bonus to each Laboratory Starbase Structure efficiency. 20% reduction of powergrid need for Laboratory Starbase Structures. 20% reduction of CPU need for Laboratory Starbase Structures. 50% increase of POS fuel and Strontium consumption. Base Price: 6,000,000,000 isk
Archivian Specialatus Amarr Fairlight Corp FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2007.11.08 20:02:00 - [7] New Starbase Structure for Industry Specific Stations (ISS) Another thought to go with these ISS would be Industry Efficiency Network (IEN) Though there would be relevant starbase structures for the relevant station type and category of jobs they do. Again we will use the Amaar Science Station for the example: Base Price: 1,000,000,000 Starbase Structures Industry Efficiency Network Science Efficiency Network (For Science Stations) Reactor Efficiency Network (For Reactor Stations) Refining Efficiency Network (For Refining Stations) Factory Efficiency Network (For Factory Stations) Science Efficiency Network Ship Equipment Efficiency Network: 50% bonus to Science Station Efficiency Bonus Only one Industry Efficiency Network per Industrial Specific Station Industry Efficiency Network Penalty: Industry Specific Station fuel consumption rate is increased by 100% when Industry Efficiency Network is online. Whilst Efficiency Network is online the station cannot go into reinforced mode. Components Research Efficiency Network: 50% bonus to Science Station Efficiency Bonus Only one Industry Efficiency Network per Industrial Specific Station Industry Efficiency Network Penalty: Industry Specific Station fuel consumption rate is increased by 100% when Industry Efficiency Network is online. Whilst Efficiency Network is online the station cannot go into reinforced mode. Manufacture & Research Efficiency Network: 50% bonus to Science Station Efficiency Bonus Only one Industry Efficiency Network per Industrial Specific Station Industry Efficiency Network Penalty: Industry Specific Station fuel consumption rate is increased by 100% when Industry Efficiency Network is online. Whilst Efficiency Network is online the station cannot go into reinforced mode. Ships Research Efficiency Network: 50% bonus to Science Station Efficiency Bonus Only one Industry Efficiency Network per Industrial Specific Station Industry Efficiency Network Penalty: Industry Specific Station fuel consumption rate is increased by 100% when Industry Efficiency Network is online. Whilst Efficiency Network is online the station cannot go into reinforced mode. Ship Modification Research Efficiency Network: 50% bonus to Science Station Efficiency Bonus Only one Industry Efficiency Network per Industrial Specific Station Industry Efficiency Network Penalty: Industry Specific Station fuel consumption rate is increased by 100% when Industry Efficiency Network is online. Whilst Efficiency Network is online the station cannot go into reinforced mode.
Lady Melandhra	Posted - 2007.11.08 20:02:00 - [8] Edited by: Lady Melandhra on 08/11/2007 20:03:29 The OP plans are a little too unbalanced; e.g. if a gang wants to take out someone's ore source outside of their peak time with 50 guys, they should be made to work for it by including 10 hulks in their pvp fleet :) Same problem with towers that have no stront. Complexes are already in the game through exploration. The AFK mining system is too open to abuse; and some people enjoy mining manually. The 'release' of the great moments in eve is built on the work you have to put into its other aspects.
BlckJck Ethereal Technologies STYX.	Posted - 2007.11.08 20:43:00 - [9] Originally by: Lady Melandhra Edited by: Lady Melandhra on 08/11/2007 20:03:29 The OP plans are a little too unbalanced; e.g. if a gang wants to take out someone's ore source outside of their peak time with 50 guys, they should be made to work for it by including 10 hulks in their pvp fleet :) It's not as much about the source of minerals rather about something that alliances would use and deploy, but unlike POS' would not require huge fleets or capitals to take them out, making roaming gangs have more of an effect on infrastructure. And give host alliances reason to form up and attack them rather than station hugging until they go away. ------------------------------------
Adunh Slavy KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.09 01:30:00 - [10] Planets Imagine if players could control parts of planets, even in high sec, say buy 100 sq k for 200,000 LP. And on that land you could mine some iron ore and maybe have a small factory that maks ammo or something. Of course you'd need to feed your workers, so another player shooting down your indy full of frozen food might just make your workers starve to death ... etc etc -AS The Real Space Initiative

Malachon Draco eXceed Inc.	Posted - 2007.11.09 08:26:00 - [11] With regards to macroers/iskfarmers, this would be something that the players can actually counter effectively themselves. Of course the platforms should be 0.0/lowsec only. So if you see an iskfarmer platformer, just blow it up. And it would not completely replace hulks, if people still want to mine manually with hulks, they can of course. But I maintain that what is desperately needed is a way to make it attractive/almost necessary to fight. Which we seriously lack atm when it comes to smaller fleets. ------------------------------------------------
Zyrus Corporation	Posted - 2007.11.10 09:42:00 - [12] Edited by: Zyrus Corporation on 10/11/2007 09:45:22 I think that you should not try to force anyone to fight. Most bigger trading and production corps have only very limited fighting capabilities. So if you force them to fight for their precious POSes, you will just end up in these corporation finishing that kind of business. Also the tons of small corps (or one-man-corps) could not defend their POSes (even if a mail informs them in the middle of the night!). If my POSes are not reasonable safe anymore I would take them apart and sell my invested money as soon as possible, because it is a huge investment that needs to run for some months to pay out. It would not be worth the risk and therefore it would be a bad investment! If this happens on a larger scale (because all the above mentiond corps detect that this is a bad investment) the industry would simply brake down! You think you don't care because you are not a producer? Think twice! What if there is no equipment to buy in Jita (or anywhere else) and what you get is extremly expensive and rare? That would be the final result of your proposed change! /DEFINETLY NOT SIGNED! Sorry, Zyrus
Zyrus Corporation	Posted - 2007.11.10 09:50:00 - [13] ... but if you want something to fight for: just allow players to make a bounty on themselves! If you have a reasonable amount of bounty on your head you will have a lot of fighting... and probably with really skilled PvP players (Bounty Hunters) and not with miners or producers that obviously are no match for a PvP player!
Frecator Dementa Caldari	Posted - 2007.11.10 12:18:00 - [14] Originally by: Princess Jodi Mining platforms are the solo-player's version Macro Mining Farmers. I seriously doubt that CCP will ever introduce methods that allow that type of activity. So... it's LIKE a macrominer but used by legitimate players in a legitimate fashion, it will severely drop the macro miners' income due to somewhat more minerals on the market.... what pray tell is bad about that? Also it would be an isk sink due to the platform's cost Also it would NOT be a solo-pilot "thing", since the platform needs to be defended against attack As for the "shoot asteroids" thing... I like it a lot... Imagine a roaving gang annihilating an alliance's short-term production capability if the alliance is not able to defend belts. (not just the current gate camping) ----------------------- forum ate my post again
Durisis	Posted - 2007.11.13 07:00:00 - [15] people used to be able to fight via wardecs, hence the word "gangs", as in gangs would control certain systems and wardec people on their turf cutting into their roids. wardecs have since been nerfed.
Archivian Specialatus Amarr Fairlight Corp FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2007.11.13 13:10:00 - [16] Edited by: Archivian Specialatus on 13/11/2007 13:14:02 How about some kind of policing bonus.CCP track every move players make right? So lets say for example goons, bob and ra were fighting over some random system. Well the game keeps track of who was in the system in the day, how many from each corp/alliance and how many died. So if each alliance brings 100 people and they spend the day killing each other or each others ratters or whatever. At the end of the day, who ever had the most people in there and lost the least (percentage wise) and killed the most (percentage wise) will get something like a soverenty 0.1. If its low sec then you can get 2.5% reduction in the cost of station services [trading taxes - ship repairs- renting space - that kind of thing] for your corp/alliance and your recognized [game mechanics wise] for being the number corp that frequents the system. If you can hold it each day for 9 days then each day you sovereignty lvl increases 0.2,.03 all the way to 0.9 and your reduction would increas to a total of 22.5%. in 0.0 space you could get recognized for frequenting the space [on the map] and the same rules as above applies if there is a NPC station in system. you can call the 2.5% per 0.1 sovereignty bonus protection money [if your pirates] or reward if your RPers or anti pirate. But every piloted ship from your corp counts for the day, from frigates to miners to BS. Bear in mind you dont actually have soverenty of anything, its all for prestege and a slight saving. Besides people tend to fight for recognition and a small cash bonus/saving.


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