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A topic on "Local chat remove" idea

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Cuon Alpinus	Posted - 2007.11.08 16:25:00 - [1] Well the problem is that if the chat is to be removed it can worsen the game. Yeah enemy has never seen a complete enemy number in real life, but if the chat is removed, none of alliances will conduct such great compaigns as now. None of them will risk it Capital fleet, or Titans. Local chat in EVE is the same as a little bit of arcade in Battlefield 2. The latter wouldn't have gathered such a great amount of fans if the game wouldn have been a total simulator of war with a completely realistic physics. So if you remove the local chat the game can just loose a great part of its playability. And remember, your game is the game of PVP pilots but not of farmers and empire-agent makers.
Vandalzzz Red Assault Brigades United Legion	Posted - 2007.11.08 16:31:00 - [2] it could be greatest PVP nerf --------------- UNL diplo
Jaketh Ivanes Amarr Do Or Die And Live Or Try	Posted - 2007.11.08 16:51:00 - [3] Actually, local is used as a deterrent to PvP. If you see an enemy in local, you can log off, warp and cloak or just plain run away. Removing local will give gankers a bigger chance of surprising their victims but also allow people to navigate through space relatively undetected, giving covert ops ships a huge role as intel gatheres before an attack. But I do see you point, people also rally to fight when they see an enemy in local, so as a compromise just change local to cover the constallation instead of the system. Then you know an enemy is in the vicenity but not excatly where..
MistaKilla	Posted - 2007.11.08 17:07:00 - [4] ***K Nice news for my new covertops
Eleana Tomelac Gallente Through the Looking Glass	Posted - 2007.11.08 17:43:00 - [5] Originally by: Cuon Alpinus And remember, your game is the game of PVP pilots but not of farmers and empire-agent makers. No, it is for everyone that wants to play it. People run missions, people farm rats, they are players too. Without PvE or carebear activities, no money. No money, no ships. No ships, no PvP! Never ever forget that. -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast ! Say hello to my tiny friends !
Loedem Minmatar Knockaround Guys	Posted - 2007.11.08 18:28:00 - [6] I'd make local chat optional/closable. Can still be useful in empire (much like how the local channels work in many other MMOs). The other way to do it, just to just change the channel type to only show avatars for those that speak up (much like the setting for normal channels). This could also help reduce some of the lag in places like Jita, etc.
Hopeless EQUILIBRIUM Caldari W33D Corp.	Posted - 2007.11.08 19:37:00 - [7] I'm for removing the local chat. I see local as a big scanner and this scanner detects all pod in system. If local chat is removed the game will be more for PVP and ships like covert ops, recons, black ops will really mean something. Maybe this could repair a little from the worst made with all the nerfing. Electronic-warfare is about detection, things like fog of war could be nice.
Jessica Molla	Posted - 2007.11.08 19:58:00 - [8] Originally by: Hopeless EQUILIBRIUM I'm for removing the local chat. I see local as a big scanner and this scanner detects all pod in system. If local chat is removed the game will be more for PVP and ships like covert ops, recons, black ops will really mean something. Maybe this could repair a little from the worst made with all the nerfing. Electronic-warfare is about detection, things like fog of war could be nice. do you even live in 0.0? 'Cause even there its not just about pvp...i love pvp and in certain situations it would be cool for your enemies to not know that you and your gang are in the system but just imagine that you are travelling from an outpost to your pos or you are ratting in the system making money and you get ganked...that is no fun. you have to make money to get new stuff...and pvp can be quite costy. another situation is you are sitting in your system and all of a sudden there is an enemy gang jumping in...well you wouldnt even find out unless you cover the gates... local is essential for both- offence and defence...removing it would in my opinion kill the pvp...
Trigos Trilobi Man-Eating Village Idiots	Posted - 2007.11.08 20:19:00 - [9] Originally by: Jessica Molla Originally by: Hopeless EQUILIBRIUM I'm for removing the local chat. I see local as a big scanner and this scanner detects all pod in system. If local chat is removed the game will be more for PVP and ships like covert ops, recons, black ops will really mean something. Maybe this could repair a little from the worst made with all the nerfing. Electronic-warfare is about detection, things like fog of war could be nice. do you even live in 0.0? 'Cause even there its not just about pvp...i love pvp and in certain situations it would be cool for your enemies to not know that you and your gang are in the system but just imagine that you are travelling from an outpost to your pos or you are ratting in the system making money and you get ganked...that is no fun. you have to make money to get new stuff...and pvp can be quite costy. another situation is you are sitting in your system and all of a sudden there is an enemy gang jumping in...well you wouldnt even find out unless you cover the gates... local is essential for both- offence and defence...removing it would in my opinion kill the pvp... Removing local would add a thousand possibilities for new cool stuff to replace it, in a more immersion-friendly way. Think surveillance units for POS, remote surveillance probes that you could park at gates etc (and the aggressor could destroy), a lot of stuff of varying accuracy could be used to substitute the ******** local channel once it's gone. These could also add more strategic targets for small gang work. You're planning a major attack, shut the lights on opponent by destroying his eyes in multiple regions at the same time which allows for a nice surprise attack etc. And if you're ratting in an unguarded system, it's your own damn fault you get ganked, the current 'oh someone popped up in local' -> ss/logout mechanic reeks of poor game design.
Ribeye Jaksom GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.08 20:42:00 - [10] Originally by: Jessica Molla Originally by: Hopeless EQUILIBRIUM I'm for removing the local chat. I see local as a big scanner and this scanner detects all pod in system. If local chat is removed the game will be more for PVP and ships like covert ops, recons, black ops will really mean something. Maybe this could repair a little from the worst made with all the nerfing. Electronic-warfare is about detection, things like fog of war could be nice. do you even live in 0.0? 'Cause even there its not just about pvp...i love pvp and in certain situations it would be cool for your enemies to not know that you and your gang are in the system but just imagine that you are travelling from an outpost to your pos or you are ratting in the system making money and you get ganked...that is no fun. you have to make money to get new stuff...and pvp can be quite costy. another situation is you are sitting in your system and all of a sudden there is an enemy gang jumping in...well you wouldnt even find out unless you cover the gates... local is essential for both- offence and defence...removing it would in my opinion kill the pvp... learn how to use your scanner

Loedem Minmatar Knockaround Guys	Posted - 2007.11.08 20:51:00 - [11] Edited by: Loedem on 08/11/2007 20:56:33 Originally by: Jessica Molla do you even live in 0.0? 'Cause even there its not just about pvp...i love pvp and in certain situations it would be cool for your enemies to not know that you and your gang are in the system but just imagine that you are travelling from an outpost to your pos or you are ratting in the system making money and you get ganked...that is no fun. you have to make money to get new stuff...and pvp can be quite costy. another situation is you are sitting in your system and all of a sudden there is an enemy gang jumping in...well you wouldnt even find out unless you cover the gates... local is essential for both- offence and defence...removing it would in my opinion kill the pvp... This would work both ways too...there might be a lot of situations where a gang will just overlook the system you're in entirely as they have a different destination in mind. The sentry scanners are a good idea...getting alerts when things pass by it or if its destroyed, etc. There are other PVP games that don't tell you enemy counts (or even allow you to talk to them). DAoC for example made it so you had to visually scout out the enemy, and get approximate numbers. There was always an element of uncertainty which really added to the adrenaline when it was time to storm the keep. The way it is now...lots of number crunches, lots of waiting until one side absolutely has the upper hand. That's what local does currently.
Dominator9987 Minmatar The Shambling Horde	Posted - 2007.11.08 21:00:00 - [12] While we're at it, lets put concord in every system and get rid of war decs :D -------------Signature-Border-Elite------------
Cuon Alpinus	Posted - 2007.11.09 05:00:00 - [13] Yeah, that's the point to think over thoroughly. It'll make clo-ships invulnerable, It'll enable quite a small gang reinforce a huge amount of poses just for one evening, it'll make 0.0 ratting impossible and so on so far. (There is actually no ability to hunt with a scout especially in systems with lots of gates, and especially in a state of WAR. And if you hunt with a scout (not everyone has a second account) then there is a question where do you live? In a carebears 0.0 heaven?) Third - people who live in 0.0 do not earn money by PVE'ing in empire, you should have known that. And 90% of an interest to the game is PVP and cross-alliances wars 300 vs 300 but not small contingencies between 10 t2 ships gangs. The only solution I see now is a constellation chat, but anyway it'll make hunt quite difficult. And remember, people have a real life too. They cannot hunt watching three gates simultaneosly or move 15 systems in home region even not knowing whether there is a 30 people gang ahead or whether it's clear without having even an opportunity to check it. (Or you think he has to warp to every ally pos in the system to use a sentry scanner or what?)
Bomerang Dai Dai Hai	Posted - 2007.11.09 09:35:00 - [14] 99% of the PvP people I know do other things than PvP to make their isk to fit those PvP ships. How much can you earn doing PvP only ? Some does industry in empire in which case local/no local doesn't matter, but for people living in 0.0 ratting/mining to fit their ships this wouldn't be a good idea. You would have to keep an alt running back and forth in empire doing business/missions as there would be no way to keep the balance on the + side if ratting/mining low-sec/0.0 and getting ganked every 2 days.
Holy Cheater Red Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.09 10:11:00 - [15] I consider that it would be best if new players will appear in localchat with some delay.. About 1 min or so.
Koval Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2007.11.09 11:30:00 - [16] Thoughts on Removing Local Chat for Intel
Sharanta Karell	Posted - 2007.11.10 03:33:00 - [17] There are lots of people commenting on here that a removal of local will ad to "I got ganked in a belt" cry's. My question is how the hell are they going to find you unless they probe you out or fly to the belt. Part of the risk vs reward is taking out the NPC pirates or lucrative low sec mins.. you either need to have people guarding you or use scanners. Have a mod you could equip that would increates your on board scanner range from 4 AU to like 6 or even 8 au for added protection. Mining in lowsec not aligned is plain stupid so all you need is a few seconds notice. Heck have the onboard ship cover the whole system but not give distances unless they us one of the directional scans would be fair. After all what combat ship out their today doesn't have several eyes glued ot the radar screens 24/7.
CFC Fodder Gallente R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2007.11.10 07:46:00 - [18] I'm all for the removal of local chat. By the way, look for cloaking corps to soon own you as a result, as you'll never see them on the system scanner. I can see it now, Black Ops Battleship runs in, calls in a bunch of buddies. One of them starts calling in the carrier/dreadnaught fleet. The only indication you had there was trouble, at all? One tiny blip that was gone, if you weren't spamming the "scan" button. Next thing you know, your POSes are under siege, gates are locked down by Recon ships and Stealth Bombers. Your system gets run over in a single 4 hour 'Blitzkreig' that you had no idea was occuring. The reason? You couldn't see any numbers building up in any systems (unless you were also using the map, and scanning the system) because the capital ships had fit a lowly Prototype cloak. Oh god, now I want local to be removed.
Garr Anders Minmatar Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2007.11.10 11:53:00 - [19] Noob I am, what about not removing local, but it just keeping the numbers of ppl in system and ONLY show who it is, when they say something in local? So + You still know other ppl are in system ( no need to spam the scanner). + Even cloaked ships get listed (no cloaked armies as mentioned above). + You still dont know who it is (friend or foe or neutral) Garr Anders - Minmatar
Sir Wolfgang	Posted - 2007.11.10 13:39:00 - [20] Edited by: Sir Wolfgang on 10/11/2007 13:39:32 Local is like using a short wave radio, We would see a range of 'local' in RL. Then we should have it here. maby change the rules of local like make it range based, but still should be a part of the game. Tho i think it is fine the way it is...

Wonderer Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2007.11.10 14:27:00 - [21] Edited by: Wonderer on 10/11/2007 14:29:47 i vote for to remove local chanel, then EVE gonna become more realistic...more ADRENALINE... YOU NEVER KNOW WHO YOU MEET, AND HOW MANY
CFC Fodder Gallente R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2007.11.10 17:54:00 - [22] Garr, showing who is cloaked in local, if they chat, is fine. However, you presume they are going to talk in local. Almost certainly, they are not, and you still have no idea (by your numbers idea, of a place easily showing how many are in local) if those numbers are friendly or not. My point was, the removal of local chat, in which all members in the system show, is also the loss of a hugely valuable tactical tool. Sure, tactics would have to change, and will change, if local were removed. What I responded with above (the cloaking ships, capitals, etc.) is my idea of what future warfare would then be. I think you can agree, it would be quite possible to use such tactics, and conquer a system in hours that took a week or so to set up in the first place. Large corporations, and especially alliances/superalliances would have the numbers available to own vast tracts of space like nothing we have seen yet, simply as they have the numbers to not only patrol around and gather intel, but also the numbers needed for industry and large strike fleets, around the clock. In short? the local channel allows for intelligence gathering by both sides, and helps in keeping a formations' possible movements in mind, and able to be struck back out. Removing local would lead only to blobfests and a superalliance or two owning the vast majority of 0.0.
Spoon Thumb Paladin Imperium	Posted - 2007.11.10 17:59:00 - [23] Social aspects of the game I feel would be severely dampened by the removal of local. Also what about us RP'ers who want to give sermons and debates on this and that during fleet ops or RP events. Maybe make local delayed mode Khaldari khanidpublic : RP channel for supporters of the Kingdom PLDN Recruiting
Michael McNeil	Posted - 2007.11.10 18:02:00 - [24] 1: the removal of local is a bad idea because those who are pveing will never have a chance, reason being if they have no advance warning by the time they see you on scanner they can not aline and warp intime to advoide the larger interdictors now. 2: once someone finds a belt if they make it where you must scan for them, a hostile needs only to find the belt once then bm it and find the others easy enough. 3: if you want to remove local you'll have to give us the ability to set up sensor arrays, which you would do in real life. this means ALL friendlies can get the up to date intel on whos in system by their sensor linking with the pos sensor array network. (think wireless internet) 4: while you are making this more realistic, lets put deployable guns which work off of a FF system if your not +.1 or better your dead, because realisticly I would have a system that would activate a bubble around the gate or mulitple bubbles for 50km of the gate in all XYand Z axes. and MANY weapon turrets around the gates. can one say a 24/7 gate cape! so please ask yourself is this the reality you want? you more then likly will need a 400 man fleet just to enter a hostile system by the time you get to the target system, youll be lucky to have 10 to 20 ships by the time i would be done with your fleet, if given, request number 4.
Shaa'dai Gallente Cult of the Skulls	Posted - 2007.11.10 18:43:00 - [25] Maybe something like this
Cailais Amarr W A R	Posted - 2007.11.10 18:50:00 - [26] I suggested a reduced local according to sec status (see my sig). In essence your 'local scan range' drops from 100AU in 1.0 space by -10AU for each point drop in sys sec status (so 40 AU in 0.4). Players could establish comms relays in 0.0 to raise the local scan range. C. Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Dehumanisation - griefers are cool and if you are not a griefer, you do not belong here.
Sky Marshal Aeden Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.11.10 21:52:00 - [27] I don't understand why people want remove local chat. I only see something about the risk/reward ratio who would be unbalanced, and sometimes because targets runs away when they arrives (without any thinking if the invert situation would be worse to find them), or cloaking ships still in local (CCP can't hidden them with the activation of the cloak module ?), etc... Seriously, local chat don't avoid losses all the time, or Killboards would already be closed ^^ I will not give all counter-arguments already written in many "Remove Local" threads. Only one factor must be considered. It is the balance between fun and frustration. I doubt that make anyone blind, same with special sector scanner, or limited range automatic system or Constellation only intelligence etc... will make 0.0 attracting, because the risk/ratio will be too unbalanced and the frustration can arrive quickly. Ok, after all, why not ? With that, only real players with guts will be in 0.0 (not me ^^). Will it be good for EvE in general ? I doubt of it, because how much players will accept that ? Difficult to estimate this, of course, so only opinions can be written. Personaly, I think that 0.0 will be really empty after removal.
Ma Zhiqiang Minmatar Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.11.10 22:55:00 - [28] I think removing local and change other things is a must to develop EVE ONLINE. Things such as improving scanner or introduce radars/sensors or put more into a tactical overlay interface, as well as remove stargates and introduce seamless travelling within regions or such...
Darknesss D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.10 22:59:00 - [29] I dont agree with a local remove, but i do believe FULLY along with all of my corporation that a 5-10 minute delay would be fantastic. Currently in Eve it is far too hard to set a trap or engage an enemy fleet because you are so easy to spot. To lay an effective trap you would actually have to exploit game mechanics by pulling a log on trap. People are so hesitant about engaging, and they use alt scouts to make sure a gang doesnt jump them, effectively 0.0 is not at all dangerous if the person/gang travelling through isnt an idiot. Fights, in particular solo fights are becoming more and more rare, instead being replaced with ganks. I think a delay would not only improve PvP in general but would also bring back the solo PvP element to the game. In addition to the delay however i do think making it so if you were to talk in local you should show instantly, or perhaps have it in order of security status... have 0.5 and above showing everyone in local while 0.4 have a 1 minute delay, 0.5 2 minutes and so on, with perhaps 0.0 never loading local at all. Who knows, i will think about it some more, but there quite simply is not enough PvP and fights in Eve. Its 90% ganks. Dark signature removed - please email us to find out why (include a link to the image URL) - Jacques([email protected])
Deva Blackfire D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.10 23:03:00 - [30] Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 10/11/2007 23:06:55 Agreed with Darknesss - delay can give an element of surprise, which will benefit both invader and defender (if they know how to use scanner). Also it will mean scout wont be afk/check local job you can do with 2nd account on 2nd monitor. You will actually need to actively scan area, pay attention to gates. EDIT: Advantage to defender? no more insta-scouting by attacker. Neither "jump in ceptor, check local, jump out" nor "jump in suicide alt" will work. You will need to hold a gate for a moment or run into system to see what defender has there. Advantage for atatcker is well known, especially if they use fast moving gangs.



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