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Jon Asus' Investment Fund aka JAIF

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Jon Asus	Posted - 2007.11.12 11:32:00 - [1] Something in the RESX listing policy discussion thread made me make this thread, that my IPO could never be listed on RESX as it didn't have a thread over here at eve-o, I've started an IPO over at scrapheap-challenge.com for a number of reasons than here at eve-o. Now that the IPO seems to have taken off and is doing well I'd like to make the Market Discussion community aware of it [and then at least allow for JAIF to be traded on the RESX at some point in the future]. Below is a quote of my first month's dividend report: Originally by: "jon.j" Warning, long post! Ok, so even with me being missing in action for most of this past month I think I can pay some decent dividends, some gambles I took paid off while others didn't. I tried to preement the market and bought up decryptors banking on all of them going up once the T2 ships were annouced, sadly not all races are created equal and some races decryptors went up while others have gone down.... 106 shares have been sold, at 5mil a share this is 530mil. There is currently 314mil in isk with 30mil in buy orders [mostly as I've yet to update them] and 321mil of stock on the market up for sale. Also in the Hedge Fund's coffers are decryptors of several kinds, although these will most likely not be sold off until Rev 3 hit, but at current market prices the decryptors held by the Hedge Fund total 289 mil isk were I to liquidate them as of 19:37 BST [aka the time right now by my laptop's clock]. All in all I feel I did well considering I've not had internet for 3 weeks. Short version: You gave me 530mil, I've got 314mil in the wallet, I've got 30mil in buy orders, I've got 321 mil worth of stock on the market, I've got 289mil invested in decryptors. You will be getting 10% return for each share you own, I will be taking 10% as payment. I've been thinking about it and each month my cut will be the same as I give to you, I feel that is only fair and of course will keep me motivated to work for you. Even Shorter Version: Isk put in: 530mil Isk now: 954mil Isk you are getting now: 10% of whatever you put in. Edit I've slightly buggered up the dividend, I'll sort it so you get what you are owed. Edit2 Right you've all got roughly what you're owed, as I've had to manually do it, those of you who have been given more, be a star and return it to Jon Asus The thread can be found at http://www.scrapheap-challenge.com/viewtopic.php?t=8779 Puts on flameproof suit Any comments or questions?
Shinhan Phoenix Knights Dark Nebula Galactic Empire	Posted - 2007.11.12 11:41:00 - [2] Originally by: Jon Asus Something in the RESX listing policy discussion thread made me make this thread, that my IPO could never be listed on RESX as it didn't have a thread over here at eve-o, I've started an IPO over at scrapheap-challenge.com for a number of reasons than here at eve-o. ... Wanna list some of those reasons? Also, the first mention of what you will be using the money for is at the bottom of the first page -- Selling apples, 1 signature each. ѼѼѼѼѼѼѼ
Jon Asus	Posted - 2007.11.12 11:50:00 - [3] Firstly, because I knew I wanted to do something but I hadn't formed the idea yet, nothing like JIAF has been done over at SHC so I knew I'd stir up at least a bit of interest. Secondly, I knew that over here I would be shot down in a second because no one knows me, over at SHC people know me and trust me so at SHC I have the neccessary trust for people to invest in me. Thirdly, I post more on SHC than I do on eve-o
Ambo 2nd Outcasters	Posted - 2007.11.12 12:26:00 - [4] Nice work, are you going to be issuing new shares through RESX or is it simply for trade of existing shares?
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2007.11.12 13:32:00 - [5] Edited by: Shar Tegral on 12/11/2007 13:32:00 Originally by: Jon Asus Secondly, I knew that over here I would be shot down in a second because no one knows me, over at SHC people know me and trust me so at SHC I have the neccessary trust for people to invest in me. Not a valid argument imho. There are plenty of ipos that start up with people not being trusted. If you don't have anyone in game who will speak for you, here or at SHC, then you will find problems. IMHO SHC is an alternative forum location but one that I'll never use for any kind of "official" ingame activity. EO website is directly linked to my account in ways that make it impossible to spoof "me" or even challenge that I am me. If identity is that important, you go with what is 100% infallible. That's just me but there it is. For various reasons SHC doesn't count as a neutral 3rd party. I know I don't go there, period. I won't go there at all, ever. CCP is obligated to not use my ip address for anything other than to interact with me as a customer. CCP is further obligated to provide me with certain levels of privacy, security, and service. A 3rd party site only assures me of those things but there is nothing that says they can't change that or have any legal obligation/debt if those assurances are violated. It's A GIRL!!!!!
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.11.12 15:20:00 - [6] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 12/11/2007 15:24:20 Originally by: Shar Tegral A 3rd party site only assures me of those things but there is nothing that says they can't change that or have any legal obligation/debt if those assurances are violated. So how is SHC any different from any other website you visit; do you not trust any website on the entire internet except www.eve-online.com, because all others are "third-party"? Your argument reminds me of the people that say "I won't use Firefox, its a third-party browser!" or "I won't use Linux, its a third-party operating system!" forgetting that third-party does actually mean something. If you do have a better reason for (supposedly?) not visting any site other than EVE-Online.com, please elaborate; your current argument seems facetious at best. P.S. Let's say me, Naphtalia, Ionia, Ricdic, Motivated Prophet, and a number of other major CEOs decided to move to SHC and create a new market discussions forum there for whatever reason. Would you no longer invest in us because we're using a "third-party site"? If we put up our reports for download from EVE-Files, would you no longer invest because we're using a "third-party site"? 23 Member EVE Video makers: save bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder! (updated)
Jon Asus	Posted - 2007.11.12 15:32:00 - [7] Originally by: Shar Tegral Edited by: Shar Tegral on 12/11/2007 13:32:00 [justify] Originally by: Jon Asus Secondly, I knew that over here I would be shot down in a second because no one knows me, over at SHC people know me and trust me so at SHC I have the neccessary trust for people to invest in me. Not a valid argument imho. There are plenty of ipos that start up with people not being trusted. If you don't have anyone in game who will speak for you, here or at SHC, Which is excatly why I started this at SHC, I have people who will speak for me there who would not speak for me here as either they are banned from eve-o or hate it so much that they simply wont come here, I wasn't going to force them to post for me. Over on SHC I didn't even have to ask, they posted happily.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2007.11.12 15:40:00 - [8] Originally by: Dark Shikari P.S. Let's say me, Naphtalia, Ionia, Ricdic, Motivated Prophet, and a number of other major CEOs decided to move to SHC and create a new market discussions forum there for whatever reason. Would you no longer invest in us because we're using a "third-party site"? If we put up our reports for download from EVE-Files, would you no longer invest because we're using a "third-party site"? Quite possibly, yes. I'm not so close minded regarding some of the examples you tossed out there. (I.e. I use Firefox but not I.E. for technical reasons, Linux is a pain to me simple because of Eve compatibility issues and generally don't have the time to learn a whole new o/s.) But this digresses. If an ipo has a website that they own/control I may visit the website in question even though it is not EO. I will rarely, if ever, register and use such websites. I might be from a very paranoid generation of Eve pilots but ... >shrugs< ... somehow I seem to avoid all the web abuses that afflict many others. Now, just to figure out how to get my name of the macro list of eve mail spammers trying to somehow suddenly convert me into buying isk 4 cash. (I suspect even the GM's don't bother with them anymore as they just close all petitions I make on this within minutes but no response anymore. They used to at least say thank you but ... after the 10,000th thank you even they must tire of it.) It's A GIRL!!!!!
Ricdic's Hoe	Posted - 2007.11.12 15:44:00 - [9] Originally by: Dark Shikari P.S. Let's say me, Naphtalia, Ionia, Ricdic, Motivated Prophet, and a number of other major CEOs decided to move to SHC and create a new market discussions forum there for whatever reason. Would you no longer invest in us because we're using a "third-party site"? If we put up our reports for download from EVE-Files, would you no longer invest because we're using a "third-party site"? Funny you should say that. Something similar to that is in design as we speak, basically a site designed completely for ceo's and investors to handle reporting, dividends, forums, updates on corporate information, links to resx and egse, and tons of crap like that. It goes as far as allowing you to publicise your share portfolio if you choose, and this then correlating to the database information on said corporation, ie to show things like the Top 10 owners (with non-listed being blanked out etc) Basically a way to completely integrate the market. Imagine being able to log in there, and see you own 6% of all shares, that there was just a dividend and you earnt XX per share, or XXX total and the likes. Cinderbrood is designing it for us atm, kinda a work of art in progress at this point. We have some pretty high goals for it though so keep an eye out over the coming months Sorry for the hijack o/t btw. I am not interested in commenting on the way this was presented. I know Jon in game a bit and he seems trustworthy to me. However I don't know if he actually wants our money or just to tell us he is doing something
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2007.11.12 15:45:00 - [10] Originally by: Jon Asus Which is excatly why I started this at SHC, I have people who will speak for me there who would not speak for me here as either they are banned from eve-o or hate it so much that they simply wont come here, I wasn't going to force them to post for me. Over on SHC I didn't even have to ask, they posted happily. You have a point. There are a lot of good people who got banned who should not have been, imho. However I still find that there are many who did get banned for good reason as well. My biggest problem usually lies in the realm of identity. As I often say, I don't know if there is a registered Shar or Shar Tegral over SHC but I've had it happen at other places that have grown in popularity. So unless there is some very specific cause for me to use a non-EO website I do not do it. If you ever see any post supposedly by me, it is not. Had to make that a rule a while back... and when you make an unalterable rule you simply don't alter it just because it may be inconvenient/inconceivable to others now. It's A GIRL!!!!!
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2007.11.12 15:47:00 - [11] Originally by: Ricdic's Hoe I am not interested in commenting on the way this was presented. I know Jon in game a bit and he seems trustworthy to me. However I don't know if he actually wants our money or just to tell us he is doing something ^^ I agree. It's A GIRL!!!!!
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.11.12 15:49:00 - [12] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 12/11/2007 15:49:49 Originally by: Shar Tegral Originally by: Jon Asus Which is excatly why I started this at SHC, I have people who will speak for me there who would not speak for me here as either they are banned from eve-o or hate it so much that they simply wont come here, I wasn't going to force them to post for me. Over on SHC I didn't even have to ask, they posted happily. You have a point. There are a lot of good people who got banned who should not have been, imho. However I still find that there are many who did get banned for good reason as well. My biggest problem usually lies in the realm of identity. As I often say, I don't know if there is a registered Shar or Shar Tegral over SHC but I've had it happen at other places that have grown in popularity. So unless there is some very specific cause for me to use a non-EO website I do not do it. If you ever see any post supposedly by me, it is not. Had to make that a rule a while back... and when you make an unalterable rule you simply don't alter it just because it may be inconvenient/inconceivable to others now. SHC is much less tolerant of identity spoofing and alts than EVE-O is. You should try it sometime. Here, one can run an entire IPO based solely on an alt, as proven by Motivated Prophet. On SHC, that would never fly to begin with. Why are you so worried about someone knowing your IP address, a completely non-identifying tool that is solely useful for finding your approximate location on the globe within a few hundred miles (if you're lucky!)? The only reason I can see that letting someone else your IP address would be bad is in the case that you're actually someone's alt and you don't want to expose your main, in which case you're a hypocrit. I understand your point, but you're being ridiculously over-paranoid in a manner which suggests ulterior motives. 23 Member EVE Video makers: save bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder! (updated)
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.11.12 15:55:00 - [13] To the substance of the OP... I am curious what dividends you actually payed based on those numbers you listed. You stated 10% to investors, 10% to you. 10% of what? Initial investment? What happens to all the additional money you make that isn't payed out in that 20% assuming you make more than 20% per month which it seems you did? What happens if you fail to make 20% per month? Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Jon Asus	Posted - 2007.11.12 16:01:00 - [14] Edited by: Jon Asus on 12/11/2007 16:01:21 10% of the balance when I do my end of the month round up is paid out as a dividend, I get paid through owning 10% of the total shares, all additional money is plugged back into making more money.
Ricdic's Hoe	Posted - 2007.11.12 16:11:00 - [15] Originally by: Shar Tegral If you ever see any post supposedly by me, it is not. Umm, someone is posting on the EBANK Board of Directors forum using YOUR NAME!. CRAP!
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2007.11.12 16:18:00 - [16] Originally by: Dark Shikari I understand your point, but you're being ridiculously over-paranoid in a manner which suggests ulterior motives. Unfounded and unwarranted supposition on your part. I said it is likely I am being overly paranoid however you weren't here for some of the crap that people have done. So I made simple rules that protected me from such and I adhere to them. Or do you have some reason to cast doubts upon my statement's face value? (PS: Ricdic, don't poke. I clearly stated that "specific reason" must exist. I can withdraw my need if you like?) It's A GIRL!!!!!
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.11.12 16:21:00 - [17] Originally by: Ricdic's Hoe Originally by: Shar Tegral If you ever see any post supposedly by me, it is not. Umm, someone is posting on the EBANK Board of Directors forum using YOUR NAME!. CRAP! Originally by: Jon Asus 10% of the balance when I do my end of the month round up is paid out as a dividend, I get paid through owning 10% of the total shares, all additional money is plugged back into making more money. Interesting, paying out a percentage of NAV is not common on these forums. It's an interesting way to go though and I think more corps should think of doing so. I am guessing all shares are sold out? If not this could cause you some issues in figuring out how to sell future shares for the correct amount of ISK. You should have the following in reports imo: 1. Actual ISK payed out to investors 2. ISK payed per share 3. % payed out this month based on the original share price 4. % payed out in total since you launched based on original share price 5. # of shares in total 6. # of shares sold 7. # of shares outstanding Finally, so basically you make 10% of 10% NAV, so you make 1% of the NAV per month. Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Jon Asus	Posted - 2007.11.12 16:26:00 - [18] Oh dear, I think I've stumbled upon a problem... All the shares are not sold out and those unsold are held by the alt-corp, so far I have only given out one dividend. Do I need to increase the price of each individual share then?
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2007.11.12 16:38:00 - [19] Originally by: Jon Asus All the shares are not sold out and those unsold are held by the alt-corp, so far I have only given out one dividend. Do I need to increase the price of each individual share then? Well, I think conventional wisdom is that each share reflects its portion of NAV so as NAV increases (that money you pour back into the ipo) the value of each share increases. So, um, yeah. It's A GIRL!!!!!
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.11.12 17:04:00 - [20] Originally by: Shar Tegral Originally by: Dark Shikari I understand your point, but you're being ridiculously over-paranoid in a manner which suggests ulterior motives. Unfounded and unwarranted supposition on your part. I said it is likely I am being overly paranoid however you weren't here for some of the crap that people have done. So I made simple rules that protected me from such and I adhere to them. Or do you have some reason to cast doubts upon my statement's face value? The reason I have doubts is because I have easily thousands of people who dislike and/or hate me in EVE, and yet even after making quite public my email, IM, and all information necessary to find my real-life identity, the most that ever happened was somebody vandalizing my Wikipedia userpage. If you truly have had something substantial happen because of letting your identity loose on the interwebs, I can understand, but I cannot comprehend why someone would be "out to get you" given that you're not a pirate, nor do you involve yourself in alliance politics. 23 Member EVE Video makers: save bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder! (updated)
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2007.11.12 18:17:00 - [21] Trying to wrap my tin foil behavior into another level of tin foil is unlikely to produce anything resembling the truth of the matter. Simply put, my position is spelled out for exactly the reasons I've stated. Supposition all you want there really is nothing more to it. It's A GIRL!!!!!
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.11.12 18:30:00 - [22] Originally by: Shar Tegral Originally by: Jon Asus All the shares are not sold out and those unsold are held by the alt-corp, so far I have only given out one dividend. Do I need to increase the price of each individual share then? Well, I think conventional wisdom is that each share reflects its portion of NAV so as NAV increases (that money you pour back into the ipo) the value of each share increases. So, um, yeah. Indeed. Otherwise any new investors would be getting more and more for their money the later they invest. It seems you prob have 1000 shares. 106 of which have been sold for 5 million each. Thus 530 million as you said. You need to divide your NAV by 530,000,000. then take that number and multiply it by 5 million. This will give you your new price per share. It should be just under 10 million per share. This way new investors do not get an advantage for investing later and they do not get penalized either. They will get the same percentage ROI as someone who initially invested. Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Jon Asus	Posted - 2007.11.12 20:30:00 - [23] Edited by: Jon Asus on 12/11/2007 20:33:14 Thanks for pointing that out to me Shadarle, with a NAV of 2488.89mil and 349 shares sold off, until the next quick stocktake shares will sell at 7.131 mil.
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.11.13 01:44:00 - [24] Originally by: Jon Asus Edited by: Jon Asus on 12/11/2007 20:33:14 Thanks for pointing that out to me Shadarle, with a NAV of 2488.89mil and 349 shares sold off, until the next quick stocktake shares will sell at 7.131 mil. As long as you keep the price fairly up to date this is a very neat system to use IMO. I wish more stocks would use it. Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Jon Asus	Posted - 2007.11.13 12:33:00 - [25] I'm halting the selling of shares for the time being, there's been a bit of a stampede and I need time to consolidate my market position and to research new avenues for making you guys isk :D If you've reserved shares with me, don't worry, I'll still honour them.
Jon Asus	Posted - 2007.11.16 19:08:00 - [26] Selling of shares is now reopened, price is still at 7.131. Dividend will be paid within the next 2 weeks at which point the share price will be re-evaluated.
Jon Asus	Posted - 2007.11.19 14:01:00 - [27] Dividend 2 has been paid. Here's the quick run down for you: Wallet: 2860mil POS stuff: 714.1 mil Buy Orders: 536.8mil Sell orders/Stock: 621.4mil Total: 4732.3mil 10% of 4732.3 = 473.23mil pay out divided between all shares. New share price has been worked out to be 12.2mil. The POS stuff With the help of one of my investors I've decided to set-up a POS to do reactions and other fun stuff you can do with a POS. This is all ready to be set-up and will be anchored and onlined the first oppourtunity I have this week.
FastLearner Fury Holdings Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.11.19 14:21:00 - [28] Originally by: Jon Asus Dividend 2 has been paid. Here's the quick run down for you: Wallet: 2860mil POS stuff: 714.1 mil Buy Orders: 536.8mil Sell orders/Stock: 621.4mil Total: 4732.3mil 10% of 4732.3 = 473.23mil pay out divided between all shares. New share price has been worked out to be 12.2mil. The POS stuff With the help of one of my investors I've decided to set-up a POS to do reactions and other fun stuff you can do with a POS. This is all ready to be set-up and will be anchored and onlined the first oppourtunity I have this week. According to your SHC thread, there's 1100 shares issued (most of which are owned by the public). If total value of corp before dividend was 4.732 billion and you dividended off 10% of that then your Net Asset Value afterwards is approx 4.259 billion. 4.529 billion split over 1100 shares works out at a share value of about 3.872 million per share. So where does the 12.2 million value per share come from?
Jon Asus	Posted - 2007.11.19 14:27:00 - [29] Edited by: Jon Asus on 19/11/2007 14:35:19 Actually, you are correct, I have worked out the share price wrong. I'll edit in the new one which you calculated correctly.
FastLearner Fury Holdings Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.11.19 14:34:00 - [30] Originally by: Jon Asus Edited by: Jon Asus on 19/11/2007 14:29:31 Actually, you are correct, I have worked out the share price wrong. I'll edit in the new one soon. In which case, that raises a question: Your previously listed share pirce was over 7 million. Have you: 1. Lost over 1/3 of your assets? 2. Sold back shares to investors at the wrong (too high) share price? 3. Had the old share price wrong, so sold shares over-priced?

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