EVE Search - A more constructive "nerf the vagabond" thread

Check My IP Information

All Channels

Ships and Modules

A more constructive "nerf the vagabond" thread

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Omarvelous Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2007.11.12 18:54:00 - [31] Just trying to think outside the Huggin/Rapier box... Why not use a Caracal/Cerberus with 5 T2 assault missile launchers with T2 precision light missiles? Throw on a missile velocity rig, and 1, (2) explosion velocity rigs. With decent missile skills and rigs (implants?) I don't see why a gang or two of these ships could put some hurt on a Vagabond (or make it run away)... __________________________________________________ Sup brosef! Destry's Lounge is looking for a few good drunks - contact me in game.
Elles D Caldari Infinitus Odium The Church.	Posted - 2007.11.12 18:55:00 - [32] OP go die in fire plz.
Naviset	Posted - 2007.11.12 18:58:00 - [33] Originally by: Odium47 Naviset, A vaga with a t2 WD must engage below 25 km. At that range it can easily be taken down with nos or neuts. Loses cap for MWD. Try to see Vaga like a shark that only attacks the one who stands of from the crowd. Web it with 2 stasis webs of 90% and it dies in a matter of seconds. This always sounds great in theory, but it almost never actually kills a vaga unless its being hounded by a bunch of interceptors it hasn't already popped. I've seen quite a few Vagas with injectors to counter this anyways. Also, Neuts really aren't very practical at all for 0.0 pvp simply because you can't sustain them through long fights and most people are passive tanked. So once again.. you need ships fit with neuts just for taking down a vaga (and even then it still probably won't work because they'll just mwd off if you dont get all their cap in one go and if you DO and its not the end of their mwd cycle they can simply coast 20km off and warp away)
Ione Hunt 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.11.12 19:32:00 - [34] Correctly setup Gankathrons kill Vagas before they realize that this blastership hits further than 10k _______________
Haniblecter Teg F.R.E.E. Explorer Atrum Tempestas Foedus	Posted - 2007.11.12 19:42:00 - [35] Originally by: Naviset Originally by: Odium47 Edited by: Odium47 on 12/11/2007 18:07:39 Edited by: Odium47 on 12/11/2007 18:06:30 You "might" arbalesstom, but: do you ? Anyways, let me explain this differently... -A vaga always has fitted for pvp: a 5 AC (usually 220), 1 MWD and 1 Disruptor. -In order to work properly, and to have the edge of range you must use either a Domination WDisruptor, or a Republic Fleet WD -Then, a Domination MWD will also be a very good ideea, 'cause you don't wanna be caught by frigates. -If you add to the equation another Domination Overdrive Injector (cause you want speed to run away)that will cost also -Ofcourse, what is a 20 mils isk rig for almost 100 mils. isk ship, so you add those as well -In the end, you sum up a good Vaga and you discover you've spendt easily over 400 mils. isk!!! At this point, you realize that you spend as much on this ship as for a faction BS. -Let's not forget about the snake set...1,5 bils isk? Obviously, at this ammount of money you want the ship to perform, and yet it doesn't as it should. Oh, lucky lucky, it can run away to live another day. ...so, stop whinning about it! So many people have such obscene amounts of isk now, trying to justify a ship by cost is dumb. Secondly, Faction BSes will go down to just about 2 of anything that attacks it, carriers are easily brought down by gangs of 6-7 that dont really need to fit special for the occasion. Vagas MIGHT go down to gangs with huginns and rapiers.. but even then it doesn't happen that often. They'll never die to a random gang of various ship densities (Although any other ship in the game will) And almost never any of the ones fit like you say (unless they do something excessively dumb) Who cares? In addition, the same can be said for an inty. What you should be concerned about is if it can pick off each one of those gangmates while remaining speedy and invincible. Here's a hint, it cant. ----------------- Friends Forever Kill. BoB. Dead.
arbalesttom Caldari Glauxian Brothers	Posted - 2007.11.12 19:43:00 - [36] Originally by: Elles D OP go die in fire plz. Omg its elles * * ** *** Phear my sig! Nice hamster, but the pic is too big... and not eve related - Mindstar
Naviset	Posted - 2007.11.12 19:46:00 - [37] Originally by: Ione Hunt Correctly setup Gankathrons kill Vagas before they realize that this blastership hits further than 10k So basically... Any gankathron that has guns..?
Cambarus Kissaki Confederation	Posted - 2007.11.12 20:05:00 - [38] Originally by: Omarvelous Just trying to think outside the Huggin/Rapier box... Why not use a Caracal/Cerberus with 5 T2 assault missile launchers with T2 precision light missiles? Throw on a missile velocity rig, and 1, (2) explosion velocity rigs. With decent missile skills and rigs (implants?) I don't see why a gang or two of these ships could put some hurt on a Vagabond (or make it run away)... Wanna ruin any vaga pilot's day? Fit a tracking disruptor. I can't think of any module that is more underrated. It can be fit on nearly any ship and it makes the vaga useless (it has what, 2 launcher hardpoints? ). Thinking outside the hughin/rapier box is easy, most people just aren't willing to do it.
Jack Target Koshaku Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.11.12 20:06:00 - [39] Don't nerf the Vaga! Just wait until Trinity - when a Vaga pilot sees one of those new EW frigates, he's going to totally Sh!+ himself!
Elles D Caldari Infinitus Odium The Church.	Posted - 2007.11.12 20:52:00 - [40] Originally by: arbalesttom Originally by: Elles D OP go die in fire plz. Omg its elles yarr

Herring Pimpology Free Trade Zone.	Posted - 2007.11.12 21:53:00 - [41] I don't fly them; I'm not going to read this thread. Anyone who thinks they should be nerfed further is part of the weaksauce crowd. I've killed them, they're easy to kill when you know what you're doing. You guys and your nerfs....lame. CCP - please stop with the nerfing and boost something already.
Xavok	Posted - 2007.11.12 22:49:00 - [42] Originally by: Naviset Originally by: Xavok How to turn a 10 pack of vagabonds into a 5 pack of vagabonds with a 3 man bubble camp: Ingredients: 2 rapiers/hugies 1 a medium bubble 1 sniping BS Baking: Move BS into sniping range. Web vagabonds. Pop pop pop. Results: 5 vagabonds who got away. 5 pods who warped off. Utter disdain for "nerf vagabond" threads. That so blatantly doesn't work. Sometimes it might, against a muppet vaga gang, but typically both huginns will die within a few volleys even if they manage to snag a web, then the vagas will either A) run off or B) go kill the sniper too. One or two of the vagas might have to warp out but the huginns will in all likelihood not last long enough to actually see the death of any of the vagas. Also, theres something innately wrong with needing specific ships (With roughly the same skill reqs as the vaga) in a preset gatecamp with already stationed snipers and an anchored bubble / dictor. to take down a gang. "That so blatantly doesn't work." Good grief. Why are so many posters here so hostile? How about: "This may be a more effective method" and then offering up some sort of alternative? It seems like most of the time posters are more interested in winning some type of put down contest then they are having a constructive debate. Hooray for you. As it stands, this tactic works frequently, or should I say it's worked excellent the times that we've done it. It's all well and good to say what should happen (rapiers will die within a few volleys), but the truth is that the rapiers and BS all will have gotten several shots off before the vaga are in range. By the time the vagas are in range of the rapiers (who are smart and moving away from the gate in the opposite direction of the sniper), their ranks have been thinned by 2-4 ships, the BS is still picking them off...it's not as if they planned to see the rapiers uncloaking in the first place. In my experience after losing a few comrades, the vagas will warp out, and you'll be able to pick off one or two more on the way out. Vagas are not made to stand and fight against a prepared opponent, they're designed for hit and run ops. A muppet vaga gang - well, BoB is filled with muppet vaga gangs, so I suppose it is statistically possible that every time we've set up a camp of this nature we got a muppet gang, but I doubt it. The law of averages says that at least one of my kills was against someone competent. As for your last comment about something wrong when you need a specific setup - this is not THE* way to take down a vaga gang - it is A way to take down a gang. This method is for smaller groups - you don't always have the manpower to match a gang ship for ship, nor do you always have time to prepare the ideal offense/defense. This is an effective way to halt an invading force into neighboring systems. Vaga gangs are not uncommon in Stain, so I have some practical experience fighting them. They're not overpowered - they fill their role very well, they have very obvious and profound weaknesses, and they're just like most ships - dangerous with a good pilot, juicy targets with a not-so good pilot. But then, I don't think Carriers should have been nerfed, and I don't think Myrmidons should have been nerfed. I tend to think that the playing community will find a way to overcome commonly used tactics and ships. It may take awhile, but eventually someone will be willing to try something that "so blatantly doesn't work", find a counter, and the counter spreads. Good players try, fail, adapt, rinse, and repeat. Bad players try, fail, whine and ask for nerfs.
Xavok	Posted - 2007.11.12 22:52:00 - [43] Originally by: Haniblecter Teg (That was my post up thar) Has anyone ever noticed that all these whiners always leave their 'race' below their portrait, while real eve pilots take it out to make room for their leet corp and alliance? It allows me to immeadetly discount whatever the poster has posted, even before I read the post! Awesomeness! Now, while this isnt the case with Alita, the OP, her corporation IS Aztek Industries, carebears it would appear. Anyone who doesn't do things like me is wrong, must not know what they're doing, and has nothing to offer. Sincerely, Every failed society or organization in human history.
TigerWoman	Posted - 2007.11.12 23:11:00 - [44] the vaga is easy to control and its easy to survive within even without snake set. some guys just do not understand that it wont take long until you will only see vagas and ishtars all time speed tanking anything with 0 risk (oh hugin rapier lets bail!). if a ship excels any other of its class at most roles it will be nerfed or everybody will fly it. its not like vagas need much training time at all to be good with it.what is it 20 days for minmatar cruiser 5? the reason for a nerf of any sort should never be something like "oh noes i died!!111!!", the vaga should be better in some situations the same way any other hac of its class should be better in different situations. the heavy dictors will play their part in this game soon. park one of them permarunning the bubble and you will be able to shoot the speed gangs when they come in to your gatecamp. a vaga can be very good and give a good chance of survival, the usage of snake sets and polycarbs increase this even more. but with the hvy dictors even vagas need to be a little more carefull. and i wonder if the use of snake sets will decrease after heavy dictors will make it to tranquility
Alita Tiphares Aztek Industries	Posted - 2007.11.13 12:15:00 - [45] vagabonds needs nerf beacuse it is very stronger then others honorable of eve society see this and vagabonds likely nerf
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2007.11.13 12:56:00 - [46] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 13/11/2007 12:59:14 Originally by: RuleoftheBone The Vaga is a terrific heavy interceptor. For a tenth the cost one can accomplish the same in a well-fitted and well-flown Stiletto. This. Admittedly, I can't fly a Vaga - I sometimes do fly a nano-Cynabal, which has a tad less range/damage/speed and significantly less tank. On the plus side, it has more tracking, costs less - about 110M ship and fit, and doesn't require Minmatar cruiser V. Practically, the usage of this ship is to scout and tackle for a group, because for solo-ing, it's not going to kill a well-tanked BC, and while I arguably could kill cruisers very comfortably with it, I could do the same (only cheaper* and faster, and, well, more reliably*) if I just went for tank & gank, but would have much worse surviveability. The only thing it can do which a interceptor couldn't possibly do is use a recon probe launcher without essentially compromising the rest of the fit, enabling it to find safespotted people. Oh, and it does do more damage then a long-range interceptor, but considering it fights almost at it's range + falloff, we're talking about a meager 150ish DPS. The only place where a nano-ships definitely exceeds a 'normal' ship is capability to run. And nano-ships don't menage to always run, else no nano-ships would've been lost, ever - they get blown up just like every other ship type and fit does. With all that in mind, I really see no* need to change anything about the vaga, really... * Cheaper because of the 1000 ISK/shot Barrage M prices, which makes my ship consume roughly 2000 ISK per second (d180s). ** More reliably, because, well, a T1 cruiser will own me if I do venture within webrange, and cruisers which can shoot at 15-16 KM like a Rupture with T2 guns will drive me off. Flying out of webrange and at some 15-16km requires constant attention and maneuvering. It's very easy to end up out of distruptor range, too.
JoeSomebody No Trademark Notoriety Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.13 14:24:00 - [47] Just to give some people an idea lets compare vaga to rupture: - Same dps - about 50% more effective HP - double-tripple speed (assuming Rupture is nanoed) Nerf Vaga's speed and you left with a Rupture with 200mil price tag (which is already double of any other HAC)
Xavok	Posted - 2007.11.13 14:29:00 - [48] Originally by: Alita Tiphares vagabonds needs nerf beacuse it is very stronger then others honorable of eve society see this and vagabonds likely nerf Translated, this means "I just got killed by a vagabond."
Inflexible Rytiri Lva	Posted - 2007.11.13 14:38:00 - [49] Originally by: Xavok Originally by: Alita Tiphares vagabonds needs nerf beacuse it is very stronger then others honorable of eve society see this and vagabonds likely nerf Translated, this means "I just got killed by a vagabond." Or maybe "I want PvP without minmatar cruiser 5"
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2007.11.13 15:03:00 - [50] Originally by: Inflexible Or maybe "I want PvP without minmatar cruiser 5" People PvP all the time without minmatar cruiser 5. If you suck at PvP, minmatar cruiser 5 won't help you

Odium47	Posted - 2007.11.13 17:59:00 - [51] Originally by: Inflexible Originally by: Xavok Originally by: Alita Tiphares vagabonds needs nerf beacuse it is very stronger then others honorable of eve society see this and vagabonds likely nerf Translated, this means "I just got killed by a vagabond." Or maybe "I want PvP without minmatar cruiser 5" I think it says: "I always get killed by Vagas!"
Xequecal	Posted - 2007.11.13 18:05:00 - [52] While a Vagabond can't kill everything it runs into, the fact that it is 100% unkillable unless the pilot makes a mistake is overpowered. You can not kill it with a Huginn if the pilot isn't a ****. A Vagabond can burn out of the Huginn's web range in three seconds, longer than it will take the Huginn to lock. What do you do when a group of 3 Vagabonds is running through your space? You can't possibly kill them, all you can do is scare them away. They can sit around indefinetly menacing your haulers and while you can't do ** to run them out.
Odium47	Posted - 2007.11.13 18:11:00 - [53] Your definition of "INVINCIBILITY" is that a pilot of a Vaga to do not make any mistakes ! LOL As I said before, flying a ship for an extended period of time it will determine the player to gain experience!
Kal Shakai Dominus Imperium	Posted - 2007.11.13 18:23:00 - [54] I used to think Vagabonds were OP when I was fairly new to pvp. Their fearsome reputation had quite a few of us running the other direction. Then I started flying them. Now all I have to say is...meh. People so frequently mistake "overpowered" with "annoying" it's hilarious. They are far from OP just like all speed setups. If you die to them you did something wrong.
Alita Tiphares Aztek Industries	Posted - 2007.11.25 10:31:00 - [55] i think vaga bond needing A GREAT NERF hopeful that this event may take place in todays topics very recently.
Incantare Caldari Kernel of War Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.11.25 10:47:00 - [56] It's porbably the most annoying ship in eve. That doesn't mean it needs a nerf.
dave1180	Posted - 2007.11.25 11:18:00 - [57] It's not the vaga thats imbalanced anyways. As a ship alone, the vaga doesnt matter. It's a pack of vagas that is lame. A pack of vagas does a ton of DPS all combined, when one starts getting shot it just speeds up and tanks until the target(s) switch primaries. A rapier isn't a counter for a vaga pack. Several vagas can essentially instapop a rapier unless it has a carrier behind it basically. It's highly unpractical to bring along tons of rapiers in a gang (Since rapiers in mass are far less useful than vagabonds) and even if you did the vagas would likely still take down all the rapiers/huginns and the rest of that gang with minimal losses. Interceptors arent a counter because vagas (And a group of them especially) destroy inties. The drone bay you're complaining about lets a vaga gang of 10 deal 1500+ dps without slowing down via drones and missiles. Yeah thats useless. I fly vagas/huginns/rapiers but I guess I'm the only one willing to admit my ship DOES have a problem? It might not be as bad as some say but its pretty bad. I think the missiles need to be pulled off, the drones removed, and additional turret slots added to counter the lost damage. i think a pack of 10 deimos/ ishtar/ muninn/ cerb/ sac/ zealot... would rip through most things, so how is a pack of 10 vagas any different?
Dionisius Gallente Vagabundos	Posted - 2007.11.25 12:53:00 - [58] Omg not another nerf thread... The vaga is fine and you don't have to spend bazilions of ISK into one just to fly it properly, your habilities and your own ( surprise!surprise! ) brain determine if you are able and fit to fly one or not. I fly mine with only a T2 fit because, - I don't need to spend 1 bil isk in implants ( would love to have a set but don't want to ) - Don't need faction fit as i can pop ships and get away all the same. - I have fun all the same. Its your experience with the ship that determines stuff, your habilities to pick targets and the "terrain" presented before you, the pilot, that will reveal your survivability in any given moment flying a vagabond. It is not an ugly ship, its diferent. And the small drone bay it has, well i dunno about others but i find the 5 t2 small drones it carries, very handy. The ship isn't perfect, it can't armour tank, the tracking is lousy, but enough, with speed tank if you get webbed you get dead, has a hole in resistances, a huge one, cap goes dry very fast you get nossed.. happens alot, or neuted. Ammo for it is insanely expensive, and it spends alot of it in the process of scraping a ship. Needs rigs fitted, polis, very expensive things. : / Oh and a smart missile boat pilot, lets say, Drake, Cerberus, Cruise Raven, can and will blast an overconfident vaga pilot. So the ship does not need a nerf, neither a boost, its good as it is atm. _____________________________________
Vanessa Vale	Posted - 2007.11.25 13:19:00 - [59] Vagabond does need a fix as explained in detail here.
Dionisius Gallente Vagabundos	Posted - 2007.11.25 14:00:00 - [60] Originally by: Vanessa Vale Vagabond does need a fix as explained in detail here. You are nuts. Have you ever flown a vagabond? _____________________________________



Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.