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Torth Lorestar
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Posted - 2004.03.03 12:56:00 -
[1]
Ive noticed from glancing through alot of posts, that people tend to hurl the words "griefer" and "noob killer", ive no problem with killing noobs and i dont see how griefing is a part of this all, if your going out to kill someone, you do whatever is in your power to do so, and you try in the end to make more money from them by ransom or killing them after collecting a ransom, i couldnt care less if someone calls me a griefer for getting money from killing people, i think the option is there for people to do what they like yet some of you tend to think its "unfair", life is unfair but no one can change that so live with the fact that people PvP with their own rules, if you play online then you have to face individual personalities - good or bad. You take the risk each time you press Connect on the Eve Window, so stop complaining and take the chance by running away or sitting it out, slowly drifting towards the security turrets...
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Vashy Stampede
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Posted - 2004.03.03 13:02:00 -
[2]
Whiners whining about whiners, the irony.
The best things in life aren't things. |
will9anthony
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Posted - 2004.03.03 13:49:00 -
[3]
i use to kill "new people" but not anymore change of heart i dont know
I am back |
Deandra Laan
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Posted - 2004.03.03 14:07:00 -
[4]
I agree with the original poster 
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Siddy
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Posted - 2004.03.03 14:11:00 -
[5]
why do u kill n00bs?
Because - u come across n00bs more often than veterans
and usualy the n00bs think they arent n00bs and are way overconffident - ending in pod....
Thats why we kill n00bs
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.03.03 19:47:00 -
[6]
Laws of PvP:
Everything is fair except exploiting.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Lansfear
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Posted - 2004.03.03 20:03:00 -
[7]
 Quote:
Laws of PvP:
Everything is fair except exploiting.
Yup.
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Siddy
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Posted - 2004.03.03 20:07:00 -
[8]
even the exploiting is ok if other dont know abaut it 
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Sally
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Posted - 2004.03.03 20:53:00 -
[9]
Quote:
Laws of PvP:
Everything is fair except exploiting.
Lol. Not.
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Stories: #1
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Zak Kingsman
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Posted - 2004.03.03 21:16:00 -
[10]
What do you disagree with sally? the except exploit part? :)
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Sally
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Posted - 2004.03.03 22:23:00 -
[11]
Quote:
What do you disagree with sally? the except exploit part? :)
...
How can be 10 vs 1 fair? It's just PvP, but it doesn't make it fair.
Logging off while getting owned in a 1 vs 1 to safe a ship it not an exploit (regarding to our lovely GMs), but that doesn't make it fair also.
I suppose, he wants to say that unless no exploit is used in PvP, morals do not apply... Yeah, could agree on that. But fairness is something different.
--
Stories: #1
--
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Masi
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Posted - 2004.03.03 22:55:00 -
[12]
Kill or be killed. Simple and effective :D
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The Monk
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Posted - 2004.03.03 23:27:00 -
[13]
Have to agree with the original poster all to true.
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╔╤╗╒╕╔╕║║/
║│║╘╛║╘╝║\
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Amy Foxx
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Posted - 2004.03.04 00:54:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Amy Foxx on 04/03/2004 00:55:12
So... how does killing new people to help EVE?
No new people = less money for CCP
less money for CCP = less gets put towards EVE
Less money going to EVE = EVE gets shut down, with the cost is more then income
EVE shut Down = Torth Lorestar, and other PK'ers (Hunter of n00b's) go back to Counter Stirke
{edit} something was out of place :P
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Meccros
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Posted - 2004.03.04 01:38:00 -
[15]
if it moves, kill it
(o.0) |
Zak Kingsman
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Posted - 2004.03.04 04:38:00 -
[16]
Quote:
Quote:
What do you disagree with sally? the except exploit part? :)
...
How can be 10 vs 1 fair? It's just PvP, but it doesn't make it fair.
Logging off while getting owned in a 1 vs 1 to safe a ship it not an exploit (regarding to our lovely GMs), but that doesn't make it fair also.
I suppose, he wants to say that unless no exploit is used in PvP, morals do not apply... Yeah, could agree on that. But fairness is something different.
I happen to agree with the fairness part, and was just giving you ****/wanting you to elaborate. For instance agreeing to a 1on1 and then having your buddy help out I don't agree with. It happened to one of my corp mates tonight. *shrug*
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Mojo JoJo
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Posted - 2004.03.04 06:11:00 -
[17]
Amy Foxx well you could look at it that way or
you could say that new players who quit if they get killed are not the kind of players eve needs
you could say if the devs adapt eve so that its always n00b safe then there is no reason for noobs to adapt
this pushes eve to become sims in space
eve goes away becouse sims already hold that market
i wish eve was more dog eat dog but heh thats just me
as for rules of pvp thats up to you and the other player you are fighting and if you dont like the rules bring a gun and make him play by your rules
;p
my main rule is no bull in local i may chat if they seem ok with it but if they start crap in local well i just wont chat , thats me
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Amy Foxx
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Posted - 2004.03.04 06:42:00 -
[18]
Quote:
Amy Foxx well you could look at it that way or
you could say that new players who quit if they get killed are not the kind of players eve needs
you could say if the devs adapt eve so that its always n00b safe then there is no reason for noobs to adapt
this pushes eve to become sims in space
eve goes away becouse sims already hold that market
i wish eve was more dog eat dog but heh thats just me
as for rules of pvp thats up to you and the other player you are fighting and if you dont like the rules bring a gun and make him play by your rules
;p
my main rule is no bull in local i may chat if they seem ok with it but if they start crap in local well i just wont chat , thats me
that is ture, but I'm talking about the people that camp at gates (out side of gate turets range) and pick off the new players, or the ones that take over 1.0 space, and kill everything.
Like what happend to me, and had me take a 5 month brake from EVE, since there was nothing I could do, in my very first cruiser, in 1.0 space, after I bought it, and a player sniped me from 90k out in a tempest, just becasue I was there.... I had been playing EVE for about 2 weeks when that happend
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Mojo JoJo
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Posted - 2004.03.04 07:25:00 -
[19]
sounds like you should
a change where you hang and
b get some friends join a corp
so you lost a cruiser get a frig join a pvp corp that takes frig/noob pilots and learn /adapt
if losing 1 ship is gonna cause you to quit then this isnt the game for you
this gme sucks solo find a corp that does stuff you think is fun and apply....id stay out of the recrutmet channel but ehh
just read forums find a corp that has views you like going the direction you want convo them ingame see if they are hireing
i lost 4 cruisers in 24 hours once
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Candy
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Posted - 2004.03.04 07:51:00 -
[20]
I cannot speak for all pirates, but here are a few 'guidelines' I try to adhere to:
- Dont Smack Talk (I know, I'm learning. I'm on step 5 of Smack Talkers Anonymous)
- NEVER Lie. If I tell you I wont kill you, I won't. Its that simple.
- Be Courteous. Nobody likes a pirate that not only kills you, but then laughs in your face.
- Dont Discriminate. If your not a friend, Your an enemy.
- Pod is Fair Game. If you want to leave with your pod, You have to pay. Losing a shuttle is not enough. Or battleship for that matter.
Cant think of anything else... Yah thats pretty much it.
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Adriana
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Posted - 2004.03.04 10:08:00 -
[21]
Not being a pirate I am not sure I can comment on the "laws" of PvP, but let me take a moment to share my thoughts about PvP in general. First of all Eve, as we all know, is a PvP game, and not set up to really function as non PvP. That said, however, griefing does nothing but hurt Eve and it's community.
Someone mentioned Sims online? Sims online is HUGE. There is a reason for this. Most people are casual gamers who want to log on for a few hours and have fun. Losing the entry level cruiser you saved for for a month to a griefer is enough to turn many people off. It might just be a game, but they spent real time and emotions to get that ship, and are proud of it. You come in and in 2 minutes destroy a month or more of their work and they get upset...and you call them a carebear and and post about how you wonder why? You know why. That doesn't mean you don't have the right to do it in a full PvP game, but don't pretend you don't understand their emotions. If you truly don't understand their frustration you should immediatly seek real life counceling.
Another perfect example is Everquest. In Everquest PvP is optional. There are PvP servers and non PvP servers. I won't go into the problems with the non PvP servers because thats another topic entirely, but let me point out that there are 3 pvp servers, and over 40 non pvp.
Let me also point out that those three PvP servers consistently have the lowest server populations of all the servers, even though they are among the oldest. The reason? Simple, most people don't like grief tactics, and don't want to play with griefers. This has led to name calling on both sides as griefers counter with calling non pvpers carebears.
I have no problem with balanced PvP myself, it's why counterstrike is so popular, everyone has pretty much the same chance and you win or lose based on tactics. The problem is grief tactics killing many games. Most people who consider playing a game read the box and see full PvP and say NEXT. This is why Eve isn't full the the brim with players imo. The only reason I can see since the game rocks. I'm sure the Devs know this as well. At some point they will have to make a financial decision on how to handle PvP. That decision being whether to lose out on money by keeping it as it is, or whether to limit/remove it to gain larger financial rewards.
I hope they find a balance because I don't think removing PvP is the answer. Not for Eve at least since there are no end game NPC encounters worth doing. How they end up handling this though is anyones guess. The sad fact though is that until they find a way to stop grief tactics it will continue to keep the number of overall players down, and if they stop PvP all together it will probably ruin the game.
Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.
-Napoleon Bonaparte |
Soul Reaver
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Posted - 2004.03.04 10:31:00 -
[22]
[quote So... how does killing new people to help EVE?
No new people = less money for CCP
less money for CCP = less gets put towards EVE
Less money going to EVE = EVE gets shut down, with the cost is more then income
EVE shut Down = Torth Lorestar, and other PK'ers (Hunter of n00b's) go back to Counter Stirke]
Amy
We have lived with this reasoning for over 10 months. We have lived through all the posts about Eve dying too :) Now let me see! Each week we read yet another record in regards to amount of NEW players online at one time!
So it appears your reasoning is not sound to me. Eve is predominantly a Player versus Player game. There are clearly defined areas that are just about totally safe for noobs to play in. These areas are very large.
People play games with varying motives of what is defined as their individual fun. The problem with an RPG is that those bounderys can and do get blurred. When that happens morals enter into the game in some players minds. To my mind there is no place for Real Life Morals within the bounds of an RPG unless they are within the scope of Role Play. This is simply because it is in esscence a Role Playing Game and as such you might run across a player who has decided to Role Play an Evil missaligned Evil character type. This player has as much right to play this type of character as I have playing a wandering healer or bounty hunter Pirate hater (Not that I hate them) :)
He might have decided (as is his wont) to kill all and sundry for no reason whatsoever other than that he is playing an evil character. A lot of players have problems with this for some reason.
They call such players griefers in the sense that they ruin other players fun in the game for no reason or visible motive to themselves. I have always had problems with this term to be honest. it is bread from a lack of understanding of the freedom a Role Playing game gives you. In a purely role playing sense it is not for one player to complain about the character type of another player. This is none of his business. But just as in life we do not accept each other so as in Role Playing games also.
When I play Ghost recon with my friends I normally annihilate them as I have played since release within a Clan. They are in no way as good as me at the game and suffer for it :) However they never call me a greifer because they know the game is a PvP game and as such expect they will get shot and or suffer at my hands from time to time.
I do however ruin their fun as it is not fun to get constantly shot in Ghost recon week in week out! So in terms of the EVE model I am a griefer in ghost recon! Perhaps one reason for this terms abundance within EVE is that players attach value to assets within the game defined by time and effort and as such become more upset when faced with losing such time based effort?
I would say to these players that this is the pain and the joy of playing an adult game :) An RPG or a Real Playing Game. A Role Playing Game, where the unexpected can and does happen daily. We as humans get the most rewarding experiences through strife (sadly) Ask anyone who won the lottery and then promptly spent it all within 5 years :) As such a game with no challenge becomes hmmm The Sims online I guess! Within our societys there is a tendency to beleive that accidents cannot and should not happen! Someone must be accountable and to blame. There is always a somber faced politicion telling us "This must never happen again" We want everything safe with no risk! Including our games now it seems. So some try to attach this thinking to RPG games.
EVE is by definition an MMORPG a Massivly Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game. We are all playing roles, even the ones who think they are not role players! The minute you create an avatar you have created a role that is seperate from your normal self. So play your Role and dont expect others to play their roles how you want them to.
If you really cant handle that or the freedom a Role Playing game gives individual players then go and play the Sims because there everyone Lubs you and its all cozy and nothing bad ever happens (God forbid) You can even have a little shop and bake cakes and stuff.
Sorry for the length But I played as a Evil Pker (and I mean Evil) in UO for 4 years and got sick of being called a griefer and seeing the game nerfed to hell LOL
Be you a Pirate or a Simple Alt creeper! Sooner or later you'll dance with Soul Reaver and His Amazing Underpants
Currently chasing Lianhaun |
Natty Gan
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Posted - 2004.03.04 13:47:00 -
[23]
Quote:
[quote So... how does killing new people to help EVE?
No new people = less money for CCP
less money for CCP = less gets put towards EVE
Less money going to EVE = EVE gets shut down, with the cost is more then income
EVE shut Down = Torth Lorestar, and other PK'ers (Hunter of n00b's) go back to Counter Stirke]
Amy
We have lived with this reasoning for over 10 months. We have lived through all the posts about Eve dying too :) Now let me see! Each week we read yet another record in regards to amount of NEW players online at one time!
So it appears your reasoning is not sound to me. Eve is predominantly a Player versus Player game. There are clearly defined areas that are just about totally safe for noobs to play in. These areas are very large.
People play games with varying motives of what is defined as their individual fun. The problem with an RPG is that those bounderys can and do get blurred. When that happens morals enter into the game in some players minds. To my mind there is no place for Real Life Morals within the bounds of an RPG unless they are within the scope of Role Play. This is simply because it is in esscence a Role Playing Game and as such you might run across a player who has decided to Role Play an Evil missaligned Evil character type. This player has as much right to play this type of character as I have playing a wandering healer or bounty hunter Pirate hater (Not that I hate them) :)
He might have decided (as is his wont) to kill all and sundry for no reason whatsoever other than that he is playing an evil character. A lot of players have problems with this for some reason.
They call such players griefers in the sense that they ruin other players fun in the game for no reason or visible motive to themselves. I have always had problems with this term to be honest. it is bread from a lack of understanding of the freedom a Role Playing game gives you. In a purely role playing sense it is not for one player to complain about the character type of another player. This is none of his business. But just as in life we do not accept each other so as in Role Playing games also.
When I play Ghost recon with my friends I normally annihilate them as I have played since release within a Clan. They are in no way as good as me at the game and suffer for it :) However they never call me a greifer because they know the game is a PvP game and as such expect they will get shot and or suffer at my hands from time to time.
I do however ruin their fun as it is not fun to get constantly shot in Ghost recon week in week out! So in terms of the EVE model I am a griefer in ghost recon! Perhaps one reason for this terms abundance within EVE is that players attach value to assets within the game defined by time and effort and as such become more upset when faced with losing such time based effort?
I would say to these players that this is the pain and the joy of playing an adult game :) An RPG or a Real Playing Game. A Role Playing Game, where the unexpected can and does happen daily. We as humans get the most rewarding experiences through strife (sadly) Ask anyone who won the lottery and then promptly spent it all within 5 years :) As such a game with no challenge becomes hmmm The Sims online I guess! Within our societys there is a tendency to beleive that accidents cannot and should not happen! Someone must be accountable and to blame. There is always a somber faced politicion telling us "This must never happen again" We want everything safe with no risk! Including our games now it seems. So some try to attach this thinking to RPG games.
EVE is by definition an MMORPG a Massivly Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game. We are all playing roles, even the ones who think they are not role players! The minute you create an avatar you have created a role that is seperate from your normal self. So play your Role and dont expect others to play their roles how you want them to.
If you really cant handle that or the freedom a Role Playing game gives individual players then go and play the Sims because there everyone Lubs you and its all cozy and nothing bad ever happens (God forbid) You can even have a little shop and bake cakes and stuff.
Sorry for the length But I played as a Evil Pker (and I mean Evil) in UO for 4 years and got sick of being called a griefer and seeing the game nerfed to hell LOL
Thats because there is only 1 server. Thus the record. No other reason than that. There is only 1 server because EVE can't support 2.
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Soul Reaver
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Posted - 2004.03.04 14:50:00 -
[24]
Huh!
Be you a Pirate or a Simple Alt creeper! Sooner or later you'll dance with Soul Reaver and His Amazing Underpants
Currently chasing Lianhaun |
Amy Foxx
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Posted - 2004.03.04 16:49:00 -
[25]
Quote:
sounds like you should
a change where you hang and
b get some friends join a corp
so you lost a cruiser get a frig join a pvp corp that takes frig/noob pilots and learn /adapt
if losing 1 ship is gonna cause you to quit then this isnt the game for you
this gme sucks solo find a corp that does stuff you think is fun and apply....id stay out of the recrutmet channel but ehh
just read forums find a corp that has views you like going the direction you want convo them ingame see if they are hireing
i lost 4 cruisers in 24 hours once
I'm back, and useing Cruiser again, in a corp, that seems to keep me outfited nicely, and yes, I've gone thorugh 5 thorax Cruiser now, but I'm having a world of fun in my Carcal.
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Drac Dragnog
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Posted - 2004.03.04 18:25:00 -
[26]
Quote:
Quote:
sounds like you should
a change where you hang and
b get some friends join a corp
so you lost a cruiser get a frig join a pvp corp that takes frig/noob pilots and learn /adapt
if losing 1 ship is gonna cause you to quit then this isnt the game for you
this gme sucks solo find a corp that does stuff you think is fun and apply....id stay out of the recrutmet channel but ehh
just read forums find a corp that has views you like going the direction you want convo them ingame see if they are hireing
i lost 4 cruisers in 24 hours once
I'm back, and useing Cruiser again, in a corp, that seems to keep me outfited nicely, and yes, I've gone thorugh 5 thorax Cruiser now, but I'm having a world of fun in my Carcal.
Only that? Wow I am a noob then cause I average 1 Thorax a week and anything that goes to the war effort. Man I gotta step up mining now.
Amy you get out to where I am and ill help you turn those losses into good profits K?
*Disclaimer* Random Babble is quite possible |
Amy Foxx
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Posted - 2004.03.04 19:33:00 -
[27]
Quote:
Only that? Wow I am a noob then cause I average 1 Thorax a week and anything that goes to the war effort. Man I gotta step up mining now.
Amy you get out to where I am and ill help you turn those losses into good profits K?
But 0.0 space scares me... mostly 'casue m0o seems to like to pick on me... every time I've gone into 0.0, I lose a ship to m0o...
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AwiL
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Posted - 2004.03.04 20:14:00 -
[28]
...and now a word from a real pvp'er...
guys, just because 10 ships are at a gate and only 1 opposing is no reason to whine. if you don't want the odds like that then do something. get your corp as organized as ours to bring that many ships out to a system, you spend the 100 mil a piece on mobile warp disruptors...you spend the countless months training gunnery...then we'll bring 20, 30, 40 ships out to that system. why? becuase we have the resources and the dedicated players. next, the reason pvp'ing is so heart pounding is because of that month spent on mining for that ship, ccp has done a wonderful job of mixing work and play, they've created players to gain a sense of real ownership of their things, unlike cs where not buying a gun for 3 rounds gets u an awp, don't ***** and moan when u lose a ship u worked hard for, because chances are the player that killed u spent WAYYYYY more time training the skills to have that .5 second lock time and ability to hit frigs 180 km out while mwd'ing. anyways, stop the b*tching and moaning when u get ganked, its part of the game nothing else needs to be said
"We gon' bring it to anyone that wants it...You want it? You gon' get it..." |
Alien8
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Posted - 2004.03.04 20:24:00 -
[29]
One thing about the first post and the ppl who disagree with it.
How do you tell a noob from a veteran ?
Not by his ship, because veterans often fly frigates or shuttles to transport stuff.
Does anyone actually think that when confronted with a possible target the would be attacker takes the time to check the profile of the soon to be victim to check out the time of creation ?
So if you are really intent on getting some loot you kill everyone, frigate, shuttle, cruiser and of course BS.
Have a nice day 
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Hematic
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Posted - 2004.03.05 04:48:00 -
[30]
Quote:
How do you tell a noob from a veteran ?
Employment History?
Obviously not 100% but gives one an idea.
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