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Lyria Skydancer Amarr Uninvited Guests	Posted - 2007.11.13 21:24:00 - [31] Originally by: DUFFMANX Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Liang Nuren stuff Well this isnt really just about the vagabond. Actually I was more thinking of the need for mwd on all other ships even battleships. It just feels so wrong when mwd battleships go faster then AB frigs and when mwd vagas go faster then inties. Im not saying they dont need a speed tank but maybe the speeds should be readjusted a bit, because right now they are getting out of line and AB is a dead module except for the loser race amarr. WTF are u on and where can i get some..... Amarr the looser race Lets see here my main spec is Amarr and oddly enough i seem to do quiet well without ab/mwd at times although i have a malediction that goes 8.6km/sec. U seem to be another 1 of these amarr cry babies that doesnt have a clue how to use ur own races ships properly and in the right situations that also moans about poor cap use on guns/ em and thermal only damage and so on..... Should have really seem this from the start but guess what only a few amarr ships need help not the whole damn ship line Wait until that 100mill malediction of yours get caught up by a vagabond that has 4-5 times the amount of dps.
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2007.11.13 21:25:00 - [32] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Wait until that 100mill malediction of yours get caught up by a vagabond that has 4-5 times the amount of dps. Wait, so now you're complaining that HAC does 4x the DPS of an interceptor??! Liang -- Retired forum *****. Plz tell me to STFU. Yarr?
DUFFMANX DEATH'S LEGION	Posted - 2007.11.13 21:30:00 - [33] Edited by: DUFFMANX on 13/11/2007 21:31:43 100mil ? lol lets see malediction is 7mil t2 mwd is 1.5-2mil ? 2 oiverdrives and 1 nanofiber t2 are 5mil total ? 1 t1 polycarb which i paid 32mil for in jita 1 t1 aux thruster rig bout 8mil and couple t1 hardwire implants but 5-15mil total Guess wot thats under 100mil........ Edit: and if i got blown up by a vaga pilot then fair play for catchig me.... its only isk and eve is just a game.... enjoy it and stop making urself look like a fool Originally by: Liu Kaskakka I think China and Japan should have a Monk vs Ninja duel to settle this matter. The winner gets the other ones rice.
Kruel Blunt Force Syndicate	Posted - 2007.11.13 21:33:00 - [34] I just had an interesting thought... What if warp scramblers did disable MWDs, and webs were removed completely? Speed ships would more than likely fit ABs, while MWDs would become more of a niche thing. Furthermore, it would free up a med slot where a web is often required and it would also indirectly boost missiles. It could also be beneficial in some cases (versatility/survivability) to use a MWD and AB on the same ship, and use one or the other depending on the situation. The obvious cons would be sacrificing two medslots for speed mods, and the fitting reqs required. Not sure what the Minnie recons would do. And the Gallente recons would become imba. I'm done speculating though.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Uninvited Guests	Posted - 2007.11.13 21:42:00 - [35] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Wait until that 100mill malediction of yours get caught up by a vagabond that has 4-5 times the amount of dps. Wait, so now you're complaining that HAC does 4x the DPS of an interceptor??! Liang Because its just as fast as an inty. Why did people complain about nano domis going 4-5km/s? Why did people complain about it when it did more dps then the average cruiser only? There is a speed vs dps/hull balance to be considered.
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.11.13 21:44:00 - [36] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Wait until that 100mill malediction of yours get caught up by a vagabond that has 4-5 times the amount of dps. Wait, so now you're complaining that HAC does 4x the DPS of an interceptor??! Liang Because its just as fast as an inty. Why did people complain about nano domis going 4-5km/s? Why did people complain about it when it did more dps then the average cruiser only? There is a speed vs dps/hull balance to be considered. Well if that 8.6 km/s malediction gets caught up by a vagabond, that means the vagabond has low-grade snakes, not the smallest investnment. _________________________________________________ Breetime A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2007.11.13 21:44:00 - [37] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Because its just as fast as an inty. Why did people complain about nano domis going 4-5km/s? Why did people complain about it when it did more dps then the average cruiser only? There is a speed vs dps/hull balance to be considered. My Vigil is faster than most inties... and my firetail is definitely faster than most inties. omg, nerrrrrf. Stabbers can be faster than most inties, and do much more DPS too (of course, you have to not consider that it has to slow down to deal that damage... which you don't). TBH, I think we should nerf the Sacrilege - for two reasons. 1. It's near and dear to your heart, Ms Amarr 2. It doesn't have to slow down to do damage .. NEEEEEERRRRRFF OMGO OMGO MOG MGOMGOMGO Or you could look at all of the limitations it has. You pick. Liang Liang -- Retired forum *****. Plz tell me to STFU. Yarr?
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Uninvited Guests	Posted - 2007.11.13 21:46:00 - [38] Originally by: madaluap Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Wait until that 100mill malediction of yours get caught up by a vagabond that has 4-5 times the amount of dps. Wait, so now you're complaining that HAC does 4x the DPS of an interceptor??! Liang Because its just as fast as an inty. Why did people complain about nano domis going 4-5km/s? Why did people complain about it when it did more dps then the average cruiser only? There is a speed vs dps/hull balance to be considered. Well if that 8.6 km/s malediction gets caught up by a vagabond, that means the vagabond has low-grade snakes, not the smallest investnment. Yes he has faction fitting and snakes in his head then but hes roaming around killing people left and right with it. Id like to see you go buy faction fitted BS or CS and fly around in slave set in 0.0 and kill people left and right. Sure youd be imba a few hours and then boom. dead. There are just so many upsides with speed.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Uninvited Guests	Posted - 2007.11.13 21:49:00 - [39] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Because its just as fast as an inty. Why did people complain about nano domis going 4-5km/s? Why did people complain about it when it did more dps then the average cruiser only? There is a speed vs dps/hull balance to be considered. My Vigil is faster than most inties... and my firetail is definitely faster than most inties. omg, nerrrrrf. Stabbers can be faster than most inties, and do much more DPS too (of course, you have to not consider that it has to slow down to deal that damage... which you don't). TBH, I think we should nerf the Sacrilege - for two reasons. 1. It's near and dear to your heart, Ms Amarr 2. It doesn't have to slow down to do damage .. NEEEEEERRRRRFF OMGO OMGO MOG MGOMGOMGO Or you could look at all of the limitations it has. You pick. Liang Liang Maybe apoc is dear to my heart? Go nerf apoc :-), also gimme new cookies. Im running out here.
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.11.13 21:55:00 - [40] Edited by: madaluap on 13/11/2007 21:56:17 Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: madaluap Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Wait until that 100mill malediction of yours get caught up by a vagabond that has 4-5 times the amount of dps. Wait, so now you're complaining that HAC does 4x the DPS of an interceptor??! Liang Because its just as fast as an inty. Why did people complain about nano domis going 4-5km/s? Why did people complain about it when it did more dps then the average cruiser only? There is a speed vs dps/hull balance to be considered. Well if that 8.6 km/s malediction gets caught up by a vagabond, that means the vagabond has low-grade snakes, not the smallest investnment. Yes he has faction fitting and snakes in his head then but hes roaming around killing people left and right with it. Id like to see you go buy faction fitted BS or CS and fly around in slave set in 0.0 and kill people left and right. Sure youd be imba a few hours and then boom. dead. There are just so many upsides with speed. Infact, i do have a navy issue megathron (partly faction fitted) in 0.0 with a LG slave set on top. No, i wouldnt pull it out, because of the capital threats. Maybe in smaller gangs, but for standard roaming, no. But, on the otherhand i also have a 3* polycarb rigged cynabal with a LG snake set. I prefer using that ship (or actually using the huggin) for flying around with gangs. Why? Because we face a lot of blobs, you know those sudden spikes in local where it just bounces up to 25 people in 1 go. We use scouts to counter this, but with fast moving gangs we can hit a target (even when outnumbered) and run. Take that away from the game and you have effectivly ruined the only reason for me and all those people that move with small roaming gangs to play EvE. Thats why i think its a bad idea. And you are 100% right on that one. I would still take the 3* polycarbon rigged cynabal with LG snake set over that (topspeed 8.7 km/s) _________________________________________________ Breetime A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Lyria Skydancer Amarr Uninvited Guests	Posted - 2007.11.13 21:58:00 - [41] Originally by: madaluap Edited by: madaluap on 13/11/2007 21:56:17 Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: madaluap Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Wait until that 100mill malediction of yours get caught up by a vagabond that has 4-5 times the amount of dps. Wait, so now you're complaining that HAC does 4x the DPS of an interceptor??! Liang Because its just as fast as an inty. Why did people complain about nano domis going 4-5km/s? Why did people complain about it when it did more dps then the average cruiser only? There is a speed vs dps/hull balance to be considered. Well if that 8.6 km/s malediction gets caught up by a vagabond, that means the vagabond has low-grade snakes, not the smallest investnment. Yes he has faction fitting and snakes in his head then but hes roaming around killing people left and right with it. Id like to see you go buy faction fitted BS or CS and fly around in slave set in 0.0 and kill people left and right. Sure youd be imba a few hours and then boom. dead. There are just so many upsides with speed. Infact, i do have a navy issue megathron (partly faction fitted) in 0.0 with a LG slave set on top. No, i wouldnt pull it out, because of the capital threats. Maybe in smaller gangs, but for standard roaming, no. But, on the otherhand i also have a 3* polycarb rigged cynabal with a LG snake set. I prefer using that ship (or actually using the huggin) for flying around with gangs. Why? Because we face a lot of blobs, you know those sudden spikes in local where it just bounces up to 25 people in 1 go. We use scouts to counter this, but with fast moving gangs we can hit a target (even when outnumbered) and run. Take that away from the game and you have effectivly ruined the only reason for me and all those people that move with small roaming gangs to play EvE. Thats why i think its a bad idea. And you are 100% right on that one. I would still take the 3* polycarbon rigged cynabal with LG snake set over that (topspeed 8.7 km/s) Then lets give all races atleast one nano ship that is comparable in that class. So minni got vaga, why not give all the other 3 races one "vaga" each with comparable speed? Everyone happy.
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.11.13 22:01:00 - [42] Edited by: madaluap on 13/11/2007 22:01:11 Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: madaluap Edited by: madaluap on 13/11/2007 21:56:17 Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: madaluap Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Wait until that 100mill malediction of yours get caught up by a vagabond that has 4-5 times the amount of dps. Wait, so now you're complaining that HAC does 4x the DPS of an interceptor??! Liang Because its just as fast as an inty. Why did people complain about nano domis going 4-5km/s? Why did people complain about it when it did more dps then the average cruiser only? There is a speed vs dps/hull balance to be considered. Well if that 8.6 km/s malediction gets caught up by a vagabond, that means the vagabond has low-grade snakes, not the smallest investnment. Yes he has faction fitting and snakes in his head then but hes roaming around killing people left and right with it. Id like to see you go buy faction fitted BS or CS and fly around in slave set in 0.0 and kill people left and right. Sure youd be imba a few hours and then boom. dead. There are just so many upsides with speed. Infact, i do have a navy issue megathron (partly faction fitted) in 0.0 with a LG slave set on top. No, i wouldnt pull it out, because of the capital threats. Maybe in smaller gangs, but for standard roaming, no. But, on the otherhand i also have a 3* polycarb rigged cynabal with a LG snake set. I prefer using that ship (or actually using the huggin) for flying around with gangs. Why? Because we face a lot of blobs, you know those sudden spikes in local where it just bounces up to 25 people in 1 go. We use scouts to counter this, but with fast moving gangs we can hit a target (even when outnumbered) and run. Take that away from the game and you have effectivly ruined the only reason for me and all those people that move with small roaming gangs to play EvE. Thats why i think its a bad idea. And you are 100% right on that one. I would still take the 3* polycarbon rigged cynabal with LG snake set over that (topspeed 8.7 km/s) Then lets give all races atleast one nano ship that is comparable in that class. So minni got vaga, why not give all the other 3 races one "vaga" each with comparable speed? Everyone happy. Here it comes: I do not want each race to have a nano ship, cause that would make them the same. curse can be nanoed effectivly. Corpmate of mine reached 8 km/s in one. Ishtar can be nanoed Cerberus can be nanoed. Some more effectivly than others, but thats the way it is. Some ships should be better than those of their competitors in particular situations. Why do you want each race to have a decent nano ship? _________________________________________________ Breetime A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2007.11.13 22:01:00 - [43] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Then lets give all races atleast one nano ship that is comparable in that class. So minni got vaga, why not give all the other 3 races one "vaga" each with comparable speed? Everyone happy. Because in 2 months you'd be in here complaining that 3 "racial-vagas" came in and bbq'd your Raven and then got away from the 4000000 man blob you got after them. Liang -- Retired forum *****. Plz tell me to STFU. Yarr?
Altaica Amur	Posted - 2007.11.13 22:07:00 - [44] Edited by: Altaica Amur on 13/11/2007 22:10:14 Quote: BS wit neuts/nos > nano ship Huginn/Rapier > nano ship Arazu/lachesis/celestis wit damps > nano ship scorp/rook/falcon/bbwit jamming > nano ships Ceptors wit webs (in groups i admit but still) > nano ships Other nano ships can possibly be > nano ships Tank bait wit sniper ships > nano ships In 0.0 warp bubble wit webbers in range > nano ships Against a decent nano gang (Vagabonds, Slepnirs and the like) jamming ships will pop in mere seconds, even if they don't you haven't killed them by jamming them, just been a pain in the arse. Ceptors also pop very very fast and will usually get webbed themselves, other nanoships... well yeah countering a ship with the exact same ship usually works XD. Huginn, rapier also can be popped extraordinarily fast before anyone's really gotten a chance to slow the nanogang down, tankbait and snipers is a bit silly because I think most nanogangs will go for the snipers, they're fast enough after all. Most have probably noticed a bit of a pattern here in that most of these suggestions, while individually useful won't take out a nanogang all on it's own you need a combination of factors to actually kill them, which should really be the goal here instead of just showing up in something that might look scary. Personally I think that nanogangs are overpowered as they currently stand, I'm not quite sure what should be done though. Quote: Yes he has faction fitting and snakes in his head then but hes roaming around killing people left and right with it. Id like to see you go buy faction fitted BS or CS and fly around in slave set in 0.0 and kill people left and right. Sure youd be imba a few hours and then boom. dead. There are just so many upsides with speed. This is the basic problem I see with nanogangs and snake sets if anyone else tried this with a slave or crystal set or whatever else they'd get themselves ganked pretty quickly and all their pretty faction gear with them where with speed tanking there's a high level of impunity allowing them to simply walk through an enemy force without taking a scratch and without risking injury.
Zenst Gallente Omniscient Order Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2007.11.13 22:29:00 - [45] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer So we got many people complaining about nano this and that and also about useless utility high slots. What if we make a new high slot module like the following: Microwarpdrive jammer. High slot Range: 20km+5km falloff So its not a web, you can still use AB and be moderatly fast The 2nd idea is: Why not make warp scramblers disrupt mwd's aswell? It would be logical because they are jamming warp drives and mwd is a kind of warp drive. Cute but the way i'd like to see this would be: Dictor Webbifier Bubbles This would make things alot more fun, that and achorable webbifier feilds. Maybe make it a script option opon a generic bubble type. But would offer a more viable option for implementation and indeed a more usable and fairer way to implement such a system.
Djerin Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.11.13 22:39:00 - [46] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Then lets give all races atleast one nano ship that is comparable in that class. So minni got vaga, why not give all the other 3 races one "vaga" each with comparable speed? Everyone happy. You should click the link in my sig and think about what Sarmaul wrote there. ---- Sarmaul's crosstrainorgtfo
Nian Banks Minmatar Berserkers of Aesir	Posted - 2007.11.14 07:19:00 - [47] If MWD's were affected by warp disruptors and bubbles then this is what would happen. 1: The average speed of all combat would be reduced severely, that is that for all ships in game the average speed would go down. 2: Minmatar would still have a clear advantage, however would probably be wise to increase all minmatar ships velocity by a small % 3: MWD's would become a "close in" module, designed for closing the gap between ships, to reach those pesky (soon to be nerfed) snipers. 4: After Burners would see a rapid increase in use. 5: Ship fits with a AB and MWD fitted would become common. 6: Webbers would not be removed, however CCP would reduce their effectiveness from the 90% to around 20% 7: After Burners get a minor boost to velocity and a reduction in their mass increase. After this I would suggest a change in MWD's 1: Forget the velocity boost. 2: Treat a MWD as warp. 3: When in micro Warp the vessel is immune to all damage, it is in warp, in warp you can fly through a planet... (Ala Cowboy Bebop warp.) 4: MWD's use scripts, 10/20/40/70/100 Km scripts. 5: These scripts dictate what distance your MWD, warps. 6: when in warp you can not change course, you go in a straight line. 7: When in warp, you deal no damage and all modules that affect other vessels deactivate. 8: The capacitor, mass and signature negatives are removed.
Riho Pastry Coalition	Posted - 2007.11.14 07:41:00 - [48] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: madaluap Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Wait until that 100mill malediction of yours get caught up by a vagabond that has 4-5 times the amount of dps. Wait, so now you're complaining that HAC does 4x the DPS of an interceptor??! Liang Because its just as fast as an inty. Why did people complain about nano domis going 4-5km/s? Why did people complain about it when it did more dps then the average cruiser only? There is a speed vs dps/hull balance to be considered. Well if that 8.6 km/s malediction gets caught up by a vagabond, that means the vagabond has low-grade snakes, not the smallest investnment. Yes he has faction fitting and snakes in his head then but hes roaming around killing people left and right with it. Id like to see you go buy faction fitted BS or CS and fly around in slave set in 0.0 and kill people left and right. Sure youd be imba a few hours and then boom. dead. There are just so many upsides with speed. HAVE YOU EVER FLOWN A VAGABOND ? not by the looks of ur posts... so stop posting :P
Riho Pastry Coalition	Posted - 2007.11.14 07:46:00 - [49] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: madaluap Edited by: madaluap on 13/11/2007 21:56:17 Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: madaluap Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Wait until that 100mill malediction of yours get caught up by a vagabond that has 4-5 times the amount of dps. Wait, so now you're complaining that HAC does 4x the DPS of an interceptor??! Liang Because its just as fast as an inty. Why did people complain about nano domis going 4-5km/s? Why did people complain about it when it did more dps then the average cruiser only? There is a speed vs dps/hull balance to be considered. Well if that 8.6 km/s malediction gets caught up by a vagabond, that means the vagabond has low-grade snakes, not the smallest investnment. Yes he has faction fitting and snakes in his head then but hes roaming around killing people left and right with it. Id like to see you go buy faction fitted BS or CS and fly around in slave set in 0.0 and kill people left and right. Sure youd be imba a few hours and then boom. dead. There are just so many upsides with speed. Infact, i do have a navy issue megathron (partly faction fitted) in 0.0 with a LG slave set on top. No, i wouldnt pull it out, because of the capital threats. Maybe in smaller gangs, but for standard roaming, no. But, on the otherhand i also have a 3* polycarb rigged cynabal with a LG snake set. I prefer using that ship (or actually using the huggin) for flying around with gangs. Why? Because we face a lot of blobs, you know those sudden spikes in local where it just bounces up to 25 people in 1 go. We use scouts to counter this, but with fast moving gangs we can hit a target (even when outnumbered) and run. Take that away from the game and you have effectivly ruined the only reason for me and all those people that move with small roaming gangs to play EvE. Thats why i think its a bad idea. And you are 100% right on that one. I would still take the 3* polycarbon rigged cynabal with LG snake set over that (topspeed 8.7 km/s) Then lets give all races atleast one nano ship that is comparable in that class. So minni got vaga, why not give all the other 3 races one "vaga" each with comparable speed? Everyone happy. lets see: nano ishtar nano cerb nano sac nano curse (still works if u know how.. not a iwin button for newbs anymore) i know quite alot of ppl who use cerb whit a nano fit... and theyr anre insanely effective :)
RuleoftheBone Minmatar Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.11.14 08:32:00 - [50] More Whines Demanded Judging by the nature of this thread I like this suggestion better than my previous one. Cease and desist this whinging at once. Petition CCP for a name change and it all goes away . "Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA

cal nereus Perkone	Posted - 2007.11.14 08:36:00 - [51] I hear a Stasis Webifier slows down whatever it targets. I tried it on a POS, but its speed didn't change, so I have my doubts. --- Join BH-DL Skills
Krist Valentine Amarr Veto. Academy Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.11.14 08:42:00 - [52] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Kuzya Morozov This is called a propulsion jammer, also known as a web. The whole idea is ridiculous and would break many other ships besides nanos. LoL webs: It always the faster one that is going to web the slower one. Point is giving slower ship a chance to cripple an opponents speed. Err, what? If they're webbing you, you can web them back. Webbers have the same range. If not, overheat the motherfunker and bring in the pain. Don't come up with stupid ideas and then get shocked when we remind you there's already a perfectly good module for it.
Darken Two Gallente Cruororis Consors Conlegium Ivy League	Posted - 2007.11.14 09:06:00 - [53] As part of these proposed changes, will we be removing blasters from the game as well? NOOBs hould not be allowed to make nerf threads to be honest. Originally by: Blind Fear Generally, when trying to be a puppetmaster, it is considered good form not to wrap the strings around your neck and choke yourself.
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2007.11.14 10:52:00 - [54] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer It just feels so wrong when mwd battleships go faster then AB frigs and when mwd vagas go faster then inties. Im not saying they dont need a speed tank but maybe the speeds should be readjusted a bit, because right now they are getting out of line and AB is a dead module except for the loser race amarr. If that's what you're worried about, then give ABs a 50% boost - it's quite clear that MWD isn't overpowered, ABs are just lacking. Something that gives you about +1.5 the base speed in a game where a module gives a hostile *0.1 of it's base+boost speed is, well... simply lacking. See, a MWD has many tactical uses: from burning back to the gate, getting away from intristically slower ships, keeping blasterboats at range and so on - the only think that MWD can't do and the AB can do is try to speedtank within webrange. However, this has serious problems, because it's only really doable with frigs and it doesn't really work against 80+% webbers. However, any non-braindead pilot, at the moment we're both webbed, can down transversal on me provided we have equal quality webs, because the speed of a MWD-ing cruiser/BC outpaces or in the worst case matches (if he has significantly worse skills) even a fast AB-ing frigate. I get preety good results using a AB on a Rifter, but it's preety much only becase most of my opponents are not very competent. The only ships I really can take on sucessfully even with a good pilot are ships which, as a rule, don't pack webs, and there's only one non-webbing cruiser used in PvP. Boosting ABs would give smaller ships a chance to speed-tank in webrange. They'd still have to fear missiles, light drones and really fast-tracking guns, but still, they'd have better odds.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Uninvited Guests	Posted - 2007.11.14 11:42:00 - [55] Originally by: Nian Banks If MWD's were affected by warp disruptors and bubbles then this is what would happen. 1: The average speed of all combat would be reduced severely, that is that for all ships in game the average speed would go down. 2: Minmatar would still have a clear advantage, however would probably be wise to increase all minmatar ships velocity by a small % 3: MWD's would become a "close in" module, designed for closing the gap between ships, to reach those pesky (soon to be nerfed) snipers. 4: After Burners would see a rapid increase in use. 5: Ship fits with a AB and MWD fitted would become common. 6: Webbers would not be removed, however CCP would reduce their effectiveness from the 90% to around 20% 7: After Burners get a minor boost to velocity and a reduction in their mass increase. After this I would suggest a change in MWD's 1: Forget the velocity boost. 2: Treat a MWD as warp. 3: When in micro Warp the vessel is immune to all damage, it is in warp, in warp you can fly through a planet... (Ala Cowboy Bebop warp.) 4: MWD's use scripts, 10/20/40/70/100 Km scripts. 5: These scripts dictate what distance your MWD, warps. 6: when in warp you can not change course, you go in a straight line. 7: When in warp, you deal no damage and all modules that affect other vessels deactivate. 8: The capacitor, mass and signature negatives are removed. Very good idea. Nice input.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Uninvited Guests	Posted - 2007.11.14 11:44:00 - [56] Originally by: madaluap Edited by: madaluap on 13/11/2007 22:01:11 Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: madaluap Edited by: madaluap on 13/11/2007 21:56:17 Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: madaluap Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Wait until that 100mill malediction of yours get caught up by a vagabond that has 4-5 times the amount of dps. Wait, so now you're complaining that HAC does 4x the DPS of an interceptor??! Liang Because its just as fast as an inty. Why did people complain about nano domis going 4-5km/s? Why did people complain about it when it did more dps then the average cruiser only? There is a speed vs dps/hull balance to be considered. Well if that 8.6 km/s malediction gets caught up by a vagabond, that means the vagabond has low-grade snakes, not the smallest investnment. Yes he has faction fitting and snakes in his head then but hes roaming around killing people left and right with it. Id like to see you go buy faction fitted BS or CS and fly around in slave set in 0.0 and kill people left and right. Sure youd be imba a few hours and then boom. dead. There are just so many upsides with speed. Infact, i do have a navy issue megathron (partly faction fitted) in 0.0 with a LG slave set on top. No, i wouldnt pull it out, because of the capital threats. Maybe in smaller gangs, but for standard roaming, no. But, on the otherhand i also have a 3* polycarb rigged cynabal with a LG snake set. I prefer using that ship (or actually using the huggin) for flying around with gangs. Why? Because we face a lot of blobs, you know those sudden spikes in local where it just bounces up to 25 people in 1 go. We use scouts to counter this, but with fast moving gangs we can hit a target (even when outnumbered) and run. Take that away from the game and you have effectivly ruined the only reason for me and all those people that move with small roaming gangs to play EvE. Thats why i think its a bad idea. And you are 100% right on that one. I would still take the 3* polycarbon rigged cynabal with LG snake set over that (topspeed 8.7 km/s) Then lets give all races atleast one nano ship that is comparable in that class. So minni got vaga, why not give all the other 3 races one "vaga" each with comparable speed? Everyone happy. Here it comes: I do not want each race to have a nano ship, cause that would make them the same. curse can be nanoed effectivly. Corpmate of mine reached 8 km/s in one. Ishtar can be nanoed Cerberus can be nanoed. Some more effectivly than others, but thats the way it is. Some ships should be better than those of their competitors in particular situations. Why do you want each race to have a decent nano ship? Ok so you say minni should have ships with superior speed. Ok, but then you shouldnt have a tanking commandship either or battleship. Because thats not your thing then.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Uninvited Guests	Posted - 2007.11.14 11:45:00 - [57] Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 14/11/2007 11:45:49 Originally by: Krist Valentine Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Kuzya Morozov This is called a propulsion jammer, also known as a web. The whole idea is ridiculous and would break many other ships besides nanos. LoL webs: It always the faster one that is going to web the slower one. Point is giving slower ship a chance to cripple an opponents speed. Err, what? If they're webbing you, you can web them back. Webbers have the same range. If not, overheat the motherfunker and bring in the pain. Don't come up with stupid ideas and then get shocked when we remind you there's already a perfectly good module for it. No the point is, webs are silly because its the faster ship that can web the slower one and mostly the slower ship is more tanked with more dps so its stupid for the faster ship to web the heavier one while the heavier one cant web the faster ship. This makes webs kinda lol in many cases. Webs are used for gank and are not really there to "kill" nano ships as a main weapon against it.
Sedai Hara The Forsakened Companions Pure.	Posted - 2007.11.14 12:18:00 - [58] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Then lets give all races atleast one nano ship that is comparable in that class. So minni got vaga, why not give all the other 3 races one "vaga" each with comparable speed? Everyone happy. You dont know what you are talking about right? You sir, live in empire and have only seen gank-vagas! In most "nano-gangs" you dont see that many vagas at all, infact Ishtars (gallente), Cerberus(caldari) and even Curse (your crappy amarr ship with no use oh wai....) are all seen just as many times if not more. Vagas also got very, very, VERY bad DPS when in speed-mode reaching those 8km/s + speeds. which renders it useless for anything than interceptor popping. My deimos have often just melted vagas away when they get webbed or get close (stupid piots ftw!) Also. add 3 huginns/rapiers to your gang or fly one yourself and these ships wont be fast anymore. I have fought Tri and CI to mention a few of the alliances using nano-gangs. and i can tell they are not hard to counter. just get tactics and use your brain and you will be fine. its as easy as staying together and look after eachother even. Also dont expect your ship to survive 10 gank-nanoships.. nothing can if not capital. So you, my kind sir, you fail at this thread :D ----------------------------- Originally by: Ozzie Asrail A mega without 3 magstabs fitted is like kladdkaka without chocolate.
Nian Banks Minmatar Berserkers of Aesir	Posted - 2007.11.14 12:34:00 - [59] Edited by: Nian Banks on 14/11/2007 12:37:06 Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Ok so you say minni should have ships with superior speed. Ok, but then you shouldnt have a tanking commandship either or battleship. Because thats not your thing then. Actually if you didn't know then let me give you some pointers about minmatar. 1: Minmatar are the ultimate "jack of all trades, master at none" Except for velocity! 2: Projectile weapons have low range, crap tracking, poor damage and their damage types are over exaggerated as the ammunition is prenerfed so that only some ammunitions are worth using. 3: Minmatar tanks are weaker than most believe, only because minmatar use shields on their tank ships do they get strong tanks, and that requires the use of their lows, they also loose their ewar and damage potential if they go all tank. Even when fully tanked up the Caldari out tank minnie shield tankers. Amarr still have the best tank and Gallente are capable of a decent tank with ewar potential. 4: Minmatar have the worst ewar module. 5: Minmatar have the worst lock range, though best scan resolution, the difference in % with scan res and targeting range is not equal except for battleships. 6: Minmatar most of the time use split weapon systems. Theres some pointers for you, now I remember seeing a graph from CCP with total ships in game and the amarr were at the bottom and then there was minmatar 2nd from the bottom. They arn't the best and speed is about all we have thats special, but even so. I don't like the mwd +7km/s ship play style, it breaks too much in the game. Edit: Found it, was a dev blog that I couldn't find but the latest one had a link and was referring to it. Dev Blog
Dark Flare Caldari Corpus PCG The State	Posted - 2007.11.14 14:25:00 - [60] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Kuzya Morozov This is called a propulsion jammer, also known as a web. The whole idea is ridiculous and would break many other ships besides nanos. LoL webs: It always the faster one that is going to web the slower one. Point is giving slower ship a chance to cripple an opponents speed. It would also bring back alot of AB fits. No good? Lets keep this game MWD-online? I hate mwd online...Yes it would break alot of cap booster/perma running i never die button nano ships. I wouldnt shed many tears for that. Oh and yes mwd wouldnt be the end-all be-all to fit on EVERY G-DMN ship either. Er. MWDs are on every ship because in 0.0 you'll always encounter times you need to get back to a gate, or MWD out of range of something. Nothing to do with nano-ships. As for your idea, apart from ruining the game, yeah, it's brilliant You say you don't want to waste a highslot on a neut somewhere on page 1.... but you want a highslot module to disable MWDs? Some speed ships need a nerf, yes. Others don't. Examples! Vagabond - Utterly pathetic dps. Seriously. Ergo doesn't need a nerf. Ishtar - No real dps loss from speed fitting, ergo needs a speed-nerf of some form. I agree speed is broken, but your blanket poorly-thought out changes are not the way to fix it. In fact they'd render BS blobs the best way to fight, because all tacklers would insta-die to them as long as a couple of the BS fitted these MWD Jammers. Speed is a natural counter to blobs. Which is why it needs to stay til the blobs go.



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