EVE Search - Kitsune - and it's odd skill bonus!?!

All Channels

Test Server Feedback

Kitsune - and it's odd skill bonus!?!

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: [1] :: one page
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Gordon Red SteelVipers YouWhat	Posted - 2007.11.14 14:11:00 - [1] 10% bonus to ECM target jammer optimal range per level of electronical attack ships This bonus might be in the tradition of the other caldari ships that have the same role, but on this ship is does not makes much sense and is working actually against your ship! How? Read on! With electronical attack ships and long distance jamming on level 4 you get an optimal from 105km. Your ships targeting range (with long range targeting on 4) is 50km and with a SBII + range script 80km. That is not only odd because your jammers optimal is twice the range from your normal targeting range, it is odd because your jammers effectiveness strenght is lower when you operating far under your jammers optimal! => conclusion idea: change the 10% jammer optimal range bonus to 10% optimal targeting range bonus => jammer optimal = 75km => ships targeting range = 70km with a SB you actually can make use of your jammers falloff btw: the PG on this ship is a little bit tight, imho +2PG could do very much here.
Amy Wang	Posted - 2007.11.14 14:18:00 - [2] Originally by: Gordon Red it is odd because your jammers effectiveness strenght is lower when you operating far under your jammers optimal! Wrong, thats not how optimal and falloff work, within you optimal you are always 100% effective, be it at 0km or 100km.
Eleana Tomelac Gallente Through the Looking Glass	Posted - 2007.11.14 14:20:00 - [3] Change from range to strength would be better maybe... Also, the EAS should not be super long range ships, all have lower range bonus to their electronic equipements (for the kitsune, it becomes even useless). Efficiency instead of useless bonus and working range kept in frigate type... -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast ! Say hello to my tiny friends !
Gordon Red SteelVipers YouWhat	Posted - 2007.11.14 15:25:00 - [4] Originally by: Amy Wang Wrong, thats not how optimal and falloff work, within you optimal you are always 100% effective, be it at 0km or 100km. Please don't confound this with the optimal+falloff from weapons!
Gordon Red SteelVipers YouWhat	Posted - 2007.11.14 15:27:00 - [5] Originally by: Eleana Tomelac Change from range to strength would be better maybe... Also, the EAS should not be super long range ships, all have lower range bonus to their electronic equipements (for the kitsune, it becomes even useless). Efficiency instead of useless bonus and working range kept in frigate type... The kitsune already has a 20% strenght bonus per frig level => 100% strenght increase built in the ship.
Eleana Tomelac Gallente Through the Looking Glass	Posted - 2007.11.14 15:38:00 - [6] More would be useless or overpowered? Was just a thought, then targeting range is the option. -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast ! Say hello to my tiny friends !
Gordon Red SteelVipers YouWhat	Posted - 2007.11.14 16:56:00 - [7] frig on 5 brings you: +100% ECM strength -75% ECM cap need electronical attack ships on 4: +40% ECM opti -20% cap recharge time Only the ECM opti makes no sense, because cou can't make use of it, even with one SB T2. My only idea was to increase the max targeting range instead so you can somehow use the even unmodified ECM optimal. An other bonus might be too good. Perhaps a speed bonus to the velocity and explosion velocity of rockets? (you don't have the PG for missiles anyway)
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2007.11.14 19:06:00 - [8] Originally by: Gordon Red frig on 5 brings you: +100% ECM strength -75% ECM cap need electronical attack ships on 4: +40% ECM opti -20% cap recharge time Only the ECM opti makes no sense, because cou can't make use of it, even with one SB T2. My only idea was to increase the max targeting range instead so you can somehow use the even unmodified ECM optimal. An other bonus might be too good. Perhaps a speed bonus to the velocity and explosion velocity of rockets? (you don't have the PG for missiles anyway) The only thing that needs adjusted is the base targeting range of the Kitsune. The bonuses are fine. Liang -- Retired forum *****. Plz tell me to STFU. Yarr?
Ulstan	Posted - 2007.11.14 19:17:00 - [9] Quote: The only thing that needs adjusted is the base targeting range of the Kitsune. The bonuses are fine. Precisely. I agree with you that it's silly to have bonuses that will never be used because your ship can't even target that far, but the solution here is simple: boost the Kitsune's targetting distance.
Navick	Posted - 2007.11.14 19:37:00 - [10] /Signed. Having a module range more than double your ship's normal targeting range (before SB) is just ridiculous. A targeting range bonus would be much more efficient to the ship's role.
Gordon Red SteelVipers YouWhat	Posted - 2007.11.14 19:38:00 - [11] I think that would make it too good.
SpankMeElmo Foundation R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.11.15 19:30:00 - [12] Originally by: Liang Nuren The only thing that needs adjusted is the base targeting range of the Kitsune. The bonuses are fine. Liang /signed Why does the Kitsune have 20% less base targeting range than the Griffin?
Arana Tellen Gallente The Blackguard Wolves Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.11.15 20:14:00 - [13] It's an option, sacrifice a jammer and stay out at much longer ranges. Its already a pretty decent ship too, if you boost it targetting range then you are seriously eroding the jobs of its larger counterparts. --------------------------------- Oh noes!
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2007.11.15 21:00:00 - [14] Originally by: Arana Tellen It's an option, sacrifice a jammer and stay out at much longer ranges. Its already a pretty decent ship too, if you boost it targetting range then you are seriously eroding the jobs of its larger counterparts. The problem is that you're already sacrificing a jammer to a sensor booster - now you're sacrificing two jammers - effectively making it a 3 slot ship. Also, I don't think anyone's really looking for a major boost in lock range - just enough that with a T2 sensor booster and max skills we can get close to the optimal with EAS 4. Liang -- Retired forum *****. Plz tell me to STFU. Yarr?
Nasair	Posted - 2007.11.15 21:46:00 - [15] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Arana Tellen It's an option, sacrifice a jammer and stay out at much longer ranges. Its already a pretty decent ship too, if you boost it targetting range then you are seriously eroding the jobs of its larger counterparts. The problem is that you're already sacrificing a jammer to a sensor booster - now you're sacrificing two jammers - effectively making it a 3 slot ship. Also, I don't think anyone's really looking for a major boost in lock range - just enough that with a T2 sensor booster and max skills we can get close to the optimal with EAS 4. Liang Yep you are making a sacrifice, but its the only frigate that even has it as an option. Its to stop you easily having a few 100km off the gate and jamming EVERYTHING.
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2007.11.15 22:31:00 - [16] Originally by: Nasair Yep you are making a sacrifice, but its the only frigate that even has it as an option. Its to stop you easily having a few 100km off the gate and jamming EVERYTHING. First things first, it's good to actually look at the bonuses. A max skilled kitsune gets a 110km optimal with ECM. You will be sitting (at most) 110km off the gate. So stop with the "a few 100km off the gate" nonsense. Second, it is not the only T2 ewar frig. There are four of them, in case you hadn't noticed. Third, it is the only Caldari ewar frig getting a bonus to Caldari ECM - that's just crazy that it would be the only T2 ewar frig to get its bonuses! Fourth, the Caldari ewar frig cannot mount a tank - not even a speed tank, and still fit any ewar worth mentioning. Additionally, it requires a sensor booster to target the optimal offered by unbonused ECM - and a second sensor booster for the optimal at EAS 4. Sacrificing two midslots is unreasonable. The other ewar frigs do not have to sacrifice low slots to their ewar, AND do not have to sacrifice two mid slots before even using their ewar. Seriously though, the "hundreds of km off the gate" really made you look silly (IMHO). Liang -- Retired forum *****. Plz tell me to STFU. Yarr?
Caldo Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.11.15 22:46:00 - [17] I see your point but with 2 ionic field projector rigs and one sensor booster with script I get 118km targeting range (100km with just the one rig). Niche ship set up but you do get the range to use max skills on your jammers. Caldo
K'reemy G'udness Gimme Gimme Gimme	Posted - 2007.11.15 23:01:00 - [18] Originally by: Gordon Red 10% bonus to ECM target jammer optimal range per level of electronical attack ships This bonus might be in the tradition of the other caldari ships that have the same role, but on this ship is does not makes much sense and is working actually against your ship! How? Read on! With electronical attack ships and long distance jamming on level 4 you get an optimal from 105km. Your ships targeting range (with long range targeting on 4) is 50km and with a SBII + range script 80km. That is not only odd because your jammers optimal is twice the range from your normal targeting range, it is odd because your jammers effectiveness strenght is lower when you operating far under your jammers optimal! => conclusion idea: change the 10% jammer optimal range bonus to 10% optimal targeting range bonus => jammer optimal = 75km => ships targeting range = 70km with a SB you actually can make use of your jammers falloff btw: the PG on this ship is a little bit tight, imho +2PG could do very much here. * Interesting point * Nice sig * GTFO of LSC4-P Sincerely, K'reemy --- If you've got Latin in your corp or alliance name, I'm laughing at you.
Nasair	Posted - 2007.11.15 23:18:00 - [19] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Nasair Yep you are making a sacrifice, but its the only frigate that even has it as an option. Its to stop you easily having a few 100km off the gate and jamming EVERYTHING. First things first, it's good to actually look at the bonuses. A max skilled kitsune gets a 110km optimal with ECM. You will be sitting (at most) 110km off the gate. So stop with the "a few 100km off the gate" nonsense. Second, it is not the only T2 ewar frig. There are four of them, in case you hadn't noticed. Third, it is the only Caldari ewar frig getting a bonus to Caldari ECM - that's just crazy that it would be the only T2 ewar frig to get its bonuses! Fourth, the Caldari ewar frig cannot mount a tank - not even a speed tank, and still fit any ewar worth mentioning. Additionally, it requires a sensor booster to target the optimal offered by unbonused ECM - and a second sensor booster for the optimal at EAS 4. Sacrificing two midslots is unreasonable. The other ewar frigs do not have to sacrifice low slots to their ewar, AND do not have to sacrifice two mid slots before even using their ewar. Seriously though, the "hundreds of km off the gate" really made you look silly (IMHO). Liang I can do lists too but I like numbers 1. The few 100km was a miss type, I meant around 100km, you can move after you have warped to get a few more too 2. I WAS talking about the other ewar frigates, none of which operate anywhere NEAR 100km. 3. I don't even understand what you are trying to say? The only other ECM frigate they have is the tech I version? The tech II is a decent whack better. 4. The only ewar frigate that can tank is the minmitar one since it can speed tank, all the others are supposed to disable the enemy weapons (though the amarr are a bit different I guess). First things last (since you are repeating yourself) None of the other ewar frigates operate at that sort of distance and dont even have the option to try. Lol and you claim I look silly.
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2007.11.16 00:12:00 - [20] Originally by: Nasair 1. The few 100km was a miss type, I meant around 100km, you can move after you have warped to get a few more too Sure, a few more km, but you're not going to be jamming anyone from 200km, let alone 300km. Quote: 2. I WAS talking about the other ewar frigates, none of which operate anywhere NEAR 100km. That's not necessarily true - I can operate a damp helios at 80km pretty easy - and it doesn't even have a bonus. Quote: 3. I don't even understand what you are trying to say? The only other ECM frigate they have is the tech I version? The tech II is a decent whack better. Sure its a whack better, but the other races do have ewar frigs... Quote: 4. The only ewar frigate that can tank is the minmitar one since it can speed tank, all the others are supposed to disable the enemy weapons (though the amarr are a bit different I guess). All of the ewar frigs can speed tank save the Caldari one. Quote: First things last (since you are repeating yourself) None of the other ewar frigates operate at that sort of distance and dont even have the option to try. The Keres can. Quote: Lol and you claim I look silly. You do! Mostly because you "mistyped" "a few hundred km". At any rate, you cannot deny that sacrificing 2 mids is ridiculous. Regarding the lock range rigs - none of the other ewar frigs require rigs to use their bonuses. Liang -- Retired forum *****. Plz tell me to STFU. Yarr?
Nasair	Posted - 2007.11.16 11:15:00 - [21] Edited by: Nasair on 16/11/2007 11:15:52 Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Nasair 1. The few 100km was a miss type, I meant around 100km, you can move after you have warped to get a few more too Sure, a few more km, but you're not going to be jamming anyone from 200km, let alone 300km. Quote: 2. I WAS talking about the other ewar frigates, none of which operate anywhere NEAR 100km. That's not necessarily true - I can operate a damp helios at 80km pretty easy - and it doesn't even have a bonus. Quote: 3. I don't even understand what you are trying to say? The only other ECM frigate they have is the tech I version? The tech II is a decent whack better. Sure its a whack better, but the other races do have ewar frigs... Quote: 4. The only ewar frigate that can tank is the minmitar one since it can speed tank, all the others are supposed to disable the enemy weapons (though the amarr are a bit different I guess). All of the ewar frigs can speed tank save the Caldari one. Quote: First things last (since you are repeating yourself) None of the other ewar frigates operate at that sort of distance and dont even have the option to try. The Keres can. Quote: Lol and you claim I look silly. You do! Mostly because you "mistyped" "a few hundred km". At any rate, you cannot deny that sacrificing 2 mids is ridiculous. Regarding the lock range rigs - none of the other ewar frigs require rigs to use their bonuses. Liang I am more talking of the 100-120km range, you keep quoting the keres that needs at least 3 damps to lock down a target and has no cap so it cant FIT a mwd and keep itself running without fitting a cap injector, whoops thats 2 mids gone already Also the Keres cant extend its range any further even if it wanted to, you can outrange it which is the caldari way. The amarr one needs to be fully cap fitted to run properly, hardly a tank mobile really.... The caldari electronic attack frigate is pretty damn good (ill be training for it). It does not NEED a boost, that fourth bonus is giving it an option to remove itself from the battle. Sure it takes a strength hit to do that but really if you want to be at that distance move to a propper recon ship or make do with the cheaper version
Nasair	Posted - 2007.11.16 11:18:00 - [22] Oh and while we are on this topic, you want odd bonuses? How about the helios and its 10% drone thermal damage bonus (1 light drone is its max)
Ishina Fel Caldari Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.11.16 11:38:00 - [23] The kitsune does need a little more base targeting range. Mke it 55 instead of 48 or so, then it is still less then the Griffin.
Daec Shomein	Posted - 2007.11.16 15:52:00 - [24] Heu, install a sensor booster ?
Samurai XII	Posted - 2007.11.16 16:23:00 - [25] I tested it, its fine... You guys need to try the ship before saying it sucks. Stick a +ecm strenght rig and a +targeting range rig. Then a nice t2 sensor booster +targeting range script. Cheap powerfull jamming FRIGATE. It's fine, especialy considering everyone will be flying one and swarming people with them sigh ______________________ Just another cool alt.
SpankMeElmo Foundation R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.11.16 16:59:00 - [26] LoL @ the peeps saying "add a sensor booster to a frigate". Look at you guys. We don't need instalock for tackling. Range is an integral part of the Caldari ewar paradigm. Leaving it like it is is tantamount to adding a 500k kg mass to the Hyena. The way it is now leaves the Griffin as the better jamming ship.
Nasair	Posted - 2007.11.17 02:26:00 - [27] Originally by: SpankMeElmo LoL @ the peeps saying "add a sensor booster to a frigate". Look at you guys. We don't need instalock for tackling. Range is an integral part of the Caldari ewar paradigm. Leaving it like it is is tantamount to adding a 500k kg mass to the Hyena. The way it is now leaves the Griffin as the better jamming ship. Fail for not even logging into SiSi and posting on this board.
Gordon Red SteelVipers YouWhat	Posted - 2007.11.17 11:38:00 - [28] Edited by: Gordon Red on 17/11/2007 11:44:05 Originally by: SpankMeElmo LoL @ the peeps saying "add a sensor booster to a frigate". Look at you guys. We don't need instalock for tackling. Range is an integral part of the Caldari ewar paradigm. Leaving it like it is is tantamount to adding a 500k kg mass to the Hyena. The way it is now leaves the Griffin as the better jamming ship. The sensor boosters will be nerved. T2 SB gives 30% to sensor strenght and targeting range. You can now fit also a script here that increases strenght OR targeting range (and removing the other bonus => +100% -100% of the MODULE's bonus => +60% str or +60% range). People have to fit a sensor booster + range script, if they want to make use of that very high optimal, but even that is not enough.

Pages: [1] :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.