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DarkMatter Sintered Sanity	Posted - 2007.11.14 17:58:00 - [1] She better get some body guards QFT BTW My Current Project
Possesive Caldari GALAXIAN RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.14 18:11:00 - [2] She is very, very brave to go on air live and do that. I seem to remember someone drawing a comic and being threatened with death not so long ago....
Lord BlackSter The Cruciform The Church.	Posted - 2007.11.14 18:16:00 - [3] Yeah shes brave but the video is more than a year old
DarkMatter Sintered Sanity	Posted - 2007.11.14 18:19:00 - [4] Edited by: DarkMatter on 14/11/2007 18:20:26 Originally by: Lord BlackSter Yeah shes brave but the video is more than a year old I wonder if she is still alive... Speaking that much truth in one seating in that part of the world has to be against that religion/culture somewhere along the line and worthy of slaughter. My Current Project
Audri Fisher Caldari VentureCorp Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.11.14 18:23:00 - [5] Doesn't matter how old the video is, Rock on Girl!
lofty29 Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.11.14 18:31:00 - [6] Originally by: Possesive She is very, very brave to go on air live and do that. I seem to remember someone drawing a comic and being threatened with death not so long ago.... In ur desk, spying on u. Post it, post it! --- Latest Video : FAT- Camp
Boonaki Caldari Knights of Chaos Chaos Incarnate.	Posted - 2007.11.14 19:03:00 - [7] since when are women humans? That's news to me. Sigs are for losers. Yes this is a sig.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.11.14 19:17:00 - [8] Well, she makes a good overall point, but several of her arguments are wrong or just conveniently ignore facts (I won't bother going into details, moot point anyway). What she does get right (but fails to recognize as such, and names it differently) is the difference between religious followers and religious fanatics/fundamentalists... and those fundamentalists are not only Muslim (although we have seen recently a lot of them). Most "older" religions have had their time of mass fundamentalism a much longer time ago, and are now closer to passive-agressive or even neutral/closed... apparently, for some reason (and sadly, for the rest of us), most Muslim countries have that specific lifecycle in their religion nowadays. The "funny" part is, it's not the religion itself, it's the countries and/or regions... a good deal of muslims in a lot of other countries are quite the opposite, even more tolerant as most Christians. _ New character creation guide \| [CNVTF] corp recruiting \| Stacknerfs explained
Possesive Caldari GALAXIAN RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.14 20:03:00 - [9] Originally by: lofty29 Originally by: Possesive She is very, very brave to go on air live and do that. I seem to remember someone drawing a comic and being threatened with death not so long ago.... In ur desk, spying on u. Post it, post it! Hahaha, I will, I have to harass my work colleague for the photo (had to use his camera), it should arrive in my email tonight some time. I still think running over and screaming about meta-gaming would have been funny ;)
Ixianus	Posted - 2007.11.14 20:11:00 - [10] In reality the west isn't that different from the east. Barbarity, yes. We still cling to our ancient rituals, horrible things.

Audri Fisher Caldari VentureCorp Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.11.14 20:14:00 - [11] Originally by: Akita T Well, she makes a good overall point, but several of her arguments are wrong or just conveniently ignore facts (I won't bother going into details, moot point anyway). What she does get right (but fails to recognize as such, and names it differently) is the difference between religious followers and religious fanatics/fundamentalists... and those fundamentalists are not only Muslim (although we have seen recently a lot of them). Most "older" religions have had their time of mass fundamentalism a much longer time ago, and are now closer to passive-agressive or even neutral/closed... apparently, for some reason (and sadly, for the rest of us), most Muslim countries have that specific lifecycle in their religion nowadays. The "funny" part is, it's not the religion itself, it's the countries and/or regions... a good deal of Muslims in a lot of other countries are quite the opposite, even more tolerant as most Christians. That is why I was very impressed by her opening statement, this is not a clash of religions, but a clash of eras. She hit the nail right on the head. It is not Islam that she views as fundamentally wrong, but the way a lot of cultures are interpreting it. It would have been better if there was a better person to present a counterpoint, instead of "Since you disagree with me, there is no use in me correcting you on my point of view"
lofty29 Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.11.14 20:18:00 - [12] Originally by: Possesive Originally by: lofty29 Originally by: Possesive She is very, very brave to go on air live and do that. I seem to remember someone drawing a comic and being threatened with death not so long ago.... In ur desk, spying on u. Post it, post it! Hahaha, I will, I have to harass my work colleague for the photo (had to use his camera), it should arrive in my email tonight some time. I still think running over and screaming about meta-gaming would have been funny ;) I think you should have. 4 BoB vs you, hmm --- Latest Video : FAT- Camp
Possesive Caldari GALAXIAN RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.15 10:26:00 - [13] Meta-gaming!!
Locus Bey Gallente RONA Deepspace	Posted - 2007.11.15 11:11:00 - [14] What a load of crap
DarkMatter Sintered Sanity	Posted - 2007.11.15 11:17:00 - [15] Edited by: DarkMatter on 15/11/2007 11:23:17 Edited by: DarkMatter on 15/11/2007 11:23:04 Originally by: Locus Bey What a load of crap Surprise surprise, an anti-American takes the opposing viewpoint simply out of spite... Some of you really need a clue, she was spot on, and will probably die for her viewpoints if she already isn't dead. Truth hurts, and she put the hurt on many clerics with that rant... My Current Project
Sakura Nihil Stimulus	Posted - 2007.11.15 11:24:00 - [16] Originally by: DarkMatter Originally by: Locus Bey What a load of crap Surprise surprise, and anti-American takes the opposing viewpoint just out of spite... Some of you really need a clue, she was spot on, and will probably die for her viewpoints if she already isn't dead. Truth hurts, and she put the hurt on many clerics with that rant... Easy there DM, who says he's anti-American? Regardless, good on her for speaking her mind and what's the reality in my point of view. Say no to knee-jerk additions and nerfs, mmkay?
DarkMatter Sintered Sanity	Posted - 2007.11.15 11:29:00 - [17] Quote: Easy there DM, who says he's anti-American? He's demonstrated that to be the case in many other threads over the years... I can make a list in my head who will come here and say that what she said is crap soley base on their hatred for the US, as many Americans will see much truth in what this lady has said. My Current Project
Locus Bey Gallente RONA Deepspace	Posted - 2007.11.15 11:31:00 - [18] Originally by: DarkMatter Originally by: Locus Bey What a load of crap Surprise surprise, and anti-American takes the opposing viewpoint just out of spite... Some of you really need a clue, she was spot on, and will probably die for her viewpoints if she already isn't dead. Truth hurts, and she put the hurt on many clerics with that rant... Why does it have to be always anti American? You guys think a lot of yourselves Her perspective is an oversimplification of world politics. We live in a transglobal economy where you have to factor in the owner[s] of a company maybe japanese, saudi, american, a combination of all. The Sultan of Brunei owns huge tracts of land in Australia, name me a hotel or business left in Hungary that isn't foreign owned, are African resources for the Africans or multinational companies and the World Bank? The Us is in bed with Saudi Arabia. The US was in bed with Sadaam until the Gulf War. Russian KGB agents have blown up their own people and blamed the Chechynians. The US to protect pipelines allows the Taliban to grow opium poppies to the extent that they become the worlds biggest supplier. The world is not black and white. As to her inference that this all comes down to Islam being no more than a backward women hating religion that permeates Middle Eastern and Arabian politics, while the western world is the shining light of liberty and the way forward. Get your hand off it! Look no further than the current US President and his chronies from the Christian and Military lobbys. Putin is a shining example to the world? John Howard?
Peter Armstrong Caldari Trinity Corporate Services	Posted - 2007.11.15 11:51:00 - [19] Originally by: DarkMatter Quote: Easy there DM, who says he's anti-American? He's demonstrated that to be the case in many other threads over the years... I can make a list in my head who will come here and say that what she said is crap soley base on their hatred for the US, as many Americans will see much truth in what this lady has said. ???? where the **** did America come from? jump the gun much? ------------------------------------ It's all part of the Experiance!
DarkMatter Sintered Sanity	Posted - 2007.11.15 11:56:00 - [20] Originally by: Peter Armstrong Originally by: DarkMatter Quote: Easy there DM, who says he's anti-American? He's demonstrated that to be the case in many other threads over the years... I can make a list in my head who will come here and say that what she said is crap soley base on their hatred for the US, as many Americans will see much truth in what this lady has said. ???? where the **** did America come from? jump the gun much? Because he knows damn well most Americans view what this woman says as being spot on. And almost every thread that involves Muslims and Islam, is hammered by people like him who will take the opposing viewpoint no matter what, due to his dislike of the way Americans view that part of the world... I have a few more people on my list in my head who will show up stating the video is crap, and I know their motivations... This really only one reason most posters will disagree with what she says, and it's pretty obvious what that reason is IMO. My Current Project

ry ry StateCorp The State	Posted - 2007.11.15 12:07:00 - [21] Edited by: ry ry on 15/11/2007 12:08:33 Originally by: DarkMatter Edited by: DarkMatter on 15/11/2007 11:23:17 Edited by: DarkMatter on 15/11/2007 11:23:04 Originally by: Locus Bey What a load of crap Surprise surprise, an anti-American takes the opposing viewpoint simply out of spite... Some of you really need a clue, she was spot on, and will probably die for her viewpoints if she already isn't dead. Truth hurts, and she put the hurt on many clerics with that rant... i know you're a rabidly pro-american right winger, but accusing anybody who challenges your viewpoint of being racist is a bit obnoxious. edit. that said 'what a load of crap' is hardly a stunning riposte either. you two deserve each other.
Locus Bey Gallente RONA Deepspace	Posted - 2007.11.15 12:13:00 - [22] Originally by: DarkMatter Originally by: Peter Armstrong Originally by: DarkMatter Quote: Easy there DM, who says he's anti-American? He's demonstrated that to be the case in many other threads over the years... I can make a list in my head who will come here and say that what she said is crap soley base on their hatred for the US, as many Americans will see much truth in what this lady has said. ???? where the **** did America come from? jump the gun much? Because he knows damn well most Americans view what this woman says as being spot on. And almost every thread that involves Muslims and Islam, is hammered by people like him who will take the opposing viewpoint no matter what, due to his dislike of the way Americans view that part of the world... I have a few more people on my list in my head who will show up stating the video is crap, and I know their motivations... This really only one reason most posters will disagree with what she says, and it's pretty obvious what that reason is IMO. Of course many Americans agree with it. It's only ignorance of world politics and religion that justifies such a position. The reason I post in so many of these threads is the there is an oversimplification of Islam, world politics, and a reprehensible ignorance or asshatted belief in American right and might. I live in Australia, the pistol in Georges' pocket. In the last 10 years I have seen international human rights flouted, vilification of Muslims - the latest in a long line of immigrants to this country to be so, attempts by the Government to privitize healthcare, education, and erode workers rights to the point where we work more hours than the Japanese just to make ends meet. There is a climate of fear here that goes hand in hand with so called capitalism and democracy. Unless you manage to climb over everyone else, you will fear for your wage, your job, your mortgage. You may get to see your kids for 2 hours a day when you pick them up from childcare. And you better not complain, strike, or protest what goes on here or elsewhere. You won't have a union, and protesting human rights abuses will get you detained without cause. Lovely ain't it?
DarkMatter Sintered Sanity	Posted - 2007.11.15 12:15:00 - [23] Edited by: DarkMatter on 15/11/2007 12:16:19 Edited by: DarkMatter on 15/11/2007 12:15:40 Quote: i know you're a rabidly pro-american right winger, but accusing anybody who challenges your viewpoint of being racist is a bit obnoxious. Where exactly did I do that? LOL "Americans" aren't a race... We are many races... My Current Project
Sokratesz Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.15 13:57:00 - [24] Edited by: Sokratesz on 15/11/2007 13:59:25 A little one-sided, the general consensus of her criticism has been attributed to almost every religion over the course of that religions history (christianity in the dark ages, anyone?)
ry ry StateCorp The State	Posted - 2007.11.15 14:15:00 - [25] Edited by: ry ry on 15/11/2007 14:15:28 Originally by: DarkMatter LOL "Americans" aren't a race... We are many races... Semantics. i have less than no interest in arguing semantics on the internet, but 'American' easily meets the criteria to be described as a race.
K'reemy G'udness Gimme Gimme Gimme	Posted - 2007.11.15 14:28:00 - [26] Originally by: DarkMatter Edited by: DarkMatter on 15/11/2007 12:16:19 Edited by: DarkMatter on 15/11/2007 12:15:40 Quote: i know you're a rabidly pro-american right winger, but accusing anybody who challenges your viewpoint of being racist is a bit obnoxious. Where exactly did I do that? LOL "Americans" aren't a race... We are many races... Darkmatter **********s to Bill O'Reilly and Rush Limbaugh. He doesn't represent "most" of any group except the people who voted for Bush. Which was less than half of America, FYI. Sincerely, K'reemy --- If you've got Latin in your corp or alliance name, I'm laughing at you.
DarkMatter Sintered Sanity	Posted - 2007.11.15 14:29:00 - [27] Edited by: DarkMatter on 15/11/2007 14:37:19 Originally by: ry ry Edited by: ry ry on 15/11/2007 14:15:28 Originally by: DarkMatter LOL "Americans" aren't a race... We are many races... Semantics. i have less than no interest in arguing semantics on the internet, but 'American' easily meets the criteria to be described as a race. I guess you simply would not understand if you don't live here. I see many people on these forums who are not Americans associate race with ones country. That's simply not the case in America. We all came from different countries... So when we hear you speak about racism in those terms, we have to laugh, as it's not the racism we know... Not even close... I'm white, the only way I'd feel racism is of everyone came here and bashed white people all day long, instead of bashing Americans... When you bash America, racism simply does not enter my mind... Race to Americans is White, Black, Asian, Latino, Native American, East Indian, etc... Not American, Russian, Chinese... Quote: Darkmatter **********s to Bill O'Reilly and Rush Limbaugh. He doesn't represent "most" of any group except the people who voted for Bush. Which was less than half of America, FYI. Actually, I don't like either of them... They employ scare tactics just like Michael Moore... I didn't like Bush, but he won the primary... I certainly was not liking Gore or Kerry, lol... They are opposed to the way I want the country to be... Sorry, only 2 choices there, as a vote for any independent is just a vote for the liberals... And I don't like Guliani much, but if I have to vote for him to make sure Hillary does not become president, that's what I'll do... Only Democrat I could stomach in office would be Joe Biden, and he has no chance... My Current Project
duffmantt Dragonian Freelancers KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.15 14:54:00 - [28] That Lady deserves a Medal Any Devs who sign below are officially cool.
Kappas. Galaxy Punks	Posted - 2007.11.15 15:14:00 - [29] Better break out the ruler so you guys can go away and see who's bigger. What she said isn't "American", it's western culture. Nowhere in Europe/American/Most of the world do you still have a culture stoning women to death, cutting off childrens limbs as punishment, not being allowed to speak your mind. She just said the truth, and was very brave in doing so. __________________ Galaxy Punks are recruiting, click here for more info
DarkMatter Sintered Sanity	Posted - 2007.11.15 16:23:00 - [30] Originally by: Audri Fisher Originally by: Sokratesz Edited by: Sokratesz on 15/11/2007 13:59:25 A little one-sided, the general consensus of her criticism has been attributed to almost every religion over the course of that religions history (christianity in the dark ages, anyone?) That is why she explicitly says that it is not a clash or religions, or civilizations, but a clash of eras. Exactly. But how much longer are Muslims going to chop off the heads of ppl who disagree with their religious teachings/beliefs and enter into the modern world? My Current Project

ry ry StateCorp The State	Posted - 2007.11.15 16:43:00 - [31] Originally by: DarkMatter I guess you simply would not understand if you don't live here. I see many people on these forums who are not Americans associate race with ones country. That's simply not the case in America. We all came from different countries... So when we hear you speak about racism in those terms, we have to laugh, as it's not the racism we know... Not even close... I'm white, the only way I'd feel racism is of everyone came here and bashed white people all day long, instead of bashing Americans... When you bash America, racism simply does not enter my mind... Race to Americans is White, Black, Asian, Latino, Native American, East Indian, etc... Not American, Russian, Chinese... i've always found it to be the other way around. As a non-american, every time i've been to america or met a US citizen i've thought of them primarily as 'American', with their ethnic descent coming a distant second. If calling somebody 'anti-american' isn't labelling them racist, what is it? and don't even think about saying "an enemy of freedom" or some such nonsense. that's a Creationism-level argument.
ry ry StateCorp The State	Posted - 2007.11.15 16:46:00 - [32] Originally by: DarkMatter Originally by: Audri Fisher Originally by: Sokratesz Edited by: Sokratesz on 15/11/2007 13:59:25 A little one-sided, the general consensus of her criticism has been attributed to almost every religion over the course of that religions history (christianity in the dark ages, anyone?) That is why she explicitly says that it is not a clash or religions, or civilizations, but a clash of eras. Exactly. But how much longer are Muslims going to chop off the heads of ppl who disagree with their religious teachings/beliefs and enter into the modern world? there was a great article on The Onion years ago about a terror cell in America that kept putting off jihad because their busy schedules ("we can't stqart the jihad on friday, it's the Lost season finale") wouldn't allow it.
DarkMatter Sintered Sanity	Posted - 2007.11.15 16:51:00 - [33] Quote: If calling somebody 'anti-american' isn't labelling them racist, what is it? Nation hating, nationalistic pride, whatever... It's certainly NOT racism. You have to be disrespecting a RACE. American is not a race... America has almost all races on the planet, you can't lump them into one race called Americans... It's simply not the case. Many countries around the world are made up mostly of a singular race, so I can see how some of you see it that way. But Russian is not a race, neither is Chinese or Japanese. They both belong to the same race. They are culturally different yes, but of the same race... But when I'm called a racist for talking about Russian gold farmers, that does not make any sense. I'm the same race as those I'm talking about, Caucasian... My Current Project
Cipher7	Posted - 2007.11.15 17:05:00 - [34] Her view is an oversimplification. Basically saying "The West is right, we're Wrong." I think our way is better in certain things. I think the Islamic way is better in other aspects. Its different strengths and weaknesses. Thats why a guy who lives in a cave can bring down the WTC. Does he have tanks? Cruise missiles? Nukes? No. He has no military resources, yet is able to make the biggest hit against America in 50+ years. How much does America spend on military? How much does OBL spend? Who's winning in Afghanistan? Who's winning in Iraq? Who won Vietnam? Who won Somalia? I think you understand the strong-points of the "backwardness" of Islam now.
DarkMatter Sintered Sanity	Posted - 2007.11.15 17:13:00 - [35] Edited by: DarkMatter on 15/11/2007 17:14:55 Quote: Who's winning in Afghanistan? Who's winning in Iraq? Who won Vietnam? Who won Somalia? Winning a military battle is easy. Winning over a people is another story. You people don't seem to understand that takes decades of time, not military action. You won't get future change without present military conflict. If you think simply ignoring the issue will make it go away, your foolish... Yeah Islamic ppl are tough minded once they are brainwashed. But you have to get rid of the elements performing the brainwashing before anything is going to change for the better... That's what this lady is speaking to. How much longer will Islam stay in this rut? The one Christianity left behind so long ago... When will they enter modern society, and engage the rest of the world as a civilized people? My Current Project
Cipher7	Posted - 2007.11.15 17:33:00 - [36] Originally by: DarkMatter Quote: Who's winning in Afghanistan? Who's winning in Iraq? Who won Vietnam? Who won Somalia? Winning a military battle is easy. Winning over a people is another story. You people don't seem to understand that takes decades of time, not military action. You won't get future change without present military conflict. If you think simply ignoring the issue will make it go away, your foolish... Yeah Islamic ppl are tough minded once they are brainwashed. But you have to get rid of the elements performing the brainwashing before anything is going to change for the better... That's what this lady is speaking to. How much longer will Islam stay in this rut? The one Christianity left behind so long ago... When will they enter modern society, and engage the rest of the world as a civilized people? People have to develop at their own pace. We go around bossing everyone around and trying to dictate their way of life. It is not up to you or me to say "The west is better" or "Islam is better." It doesn't matter which is better. Open dialogue. Polite dialogue. Free exchange of ideas. Thats the right way to interact with the Islamic world. Not "you are a bunch of backward savages, we are gonna teach you to be civilized." Invading other countries and forcing them to be free at gunpoint does not advance the cause of Liberty.
Sir Scorpion Black Banners	Posted - 2007.11.15 17:40:00 - [37] Edited by: Sir Scorpion on 15/11/2007 17:44:23 Well good job putting one side of the conversation, intelligence reports have shown that this women is not an Arab, her accent and pronunciation is nothing close to where she claimed to be from. She has limited education and all checks from several agency about her claimed story of survival have turned out nothing. You see the first logo in the video, that an Israeli online channel thatÆs sole purpose is to destroy the image of Islam, you can do a quick search on you tube and you can easily see how much its only pure propaganda, I trust you guys will easily see it. Here is the other side of the discussion in that interview, you can easily see why that channel shows only half of it since every argument she makes gets devastated by the counter party. Here Is a link for the whole interview, Please watch it before you add insult to injury. Thanks Counter argument full interview Linkage I donÆt see her having the slightest idea about what she is talking about, she is not qualified on any level and all her arguments are destroyed, all I see is some one that is star stuck by all the nice American dream.
DarkMatter Sintered Sanity	Posted - 2007.11.15 17:46:00 - [38] Quote: Open dialogue. Polite dialogue. Free exchange of ideas. Thats the right way to interact with the Islamic world. Dude, they don't want that. they want us to join their religion or die... A world leader. comes to the US, begs the students to join Islam, and then tell everyone there is no ***s in Iran because that is not allowed... How delusional are you people who think there is the slightest possibility of dialog with that? Gimme a freakin break... The facts are, if we left them alnoe for 50 years, they would stil hate us, hate our culture, and want us to join them ore die... My Current Project
Rialtor Amarr Yarrrateers	Posted - 2007.11.15 17:50:00 - [39] Originally by: Cipher7 People have to develop at their own pace. We go around bossing everyone around and trying to dictate their way of life. It is not up to you or me to say "The west is better" or "Islam is better." It doesn't matter which is better. Open dialogue. Polite dialogue. Free exchange of ideas. Thats the right way to interact with the Islamic world. Not "you are a bunch of backward savages, we are gonna teach you to be civilized." Invading other countries and forcing them to be free at gunpoint does not advance the cause of Liberty. Well sometimes you just have to call things the way they are. You can't let yourself become so tolerant that you tolerate intolerance. There's a huge line between having different beliefs and taking a little girl wrapping her up in a sheet, burying her legs in the ground, and throwing large rocks at them. For what? cause she slept with some guy, and the guy received a few lashes. Watching displays like that on a video feed are very jarring, I'm a very emotionless kind of guy, but even something like that makes my blood boil and heart break. It's unimaginable that something like that is real. While I may not be for the War in Iraq, the ousting of the Taliban was very needed. Too bad they're making a re-emergence since the US's attention is split. ---- sig ---- Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world... Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.
Sir Scorpion Black Banners	Posted - 2007.11.15 18:03:00 - [40] Originally by: DarkMatter Edited by: DarkMatter on 15/11/2007 17:51:09 Quote: Open dialogue. Polite dialogue. Free exchange of ideas. Thats the right way to interact with the Islamic world. Dude, they don't want that. they want us to join their religion or die... A world leader. comes to the US, begs the students to join Islam, and then tell everyone there is no ***s in Iran because that is not allowed... How delusional are you people who think there is the slightest possibility of dialog with that? Gimme a freakin break... The facts are, if we left them alone for 50 years, they would still hate us, hate our culture, and want us to join them ore die... Gone are the days of one nation attacking another for territorial conquest, the west will no longer allow that to happen. Here, are the days of jihad and terrorism. The US is only fighting terrorist states, or those who support them... If they would stop blowing themselves up, and nation like Iran would stop funding that practice, our military would have no one to fight... Blowing them selfÆs up? you make me sick. Let me ask you this, how many times in American movies, and real solders scarified their lives by blowing them self up, to take out the enemy?? And I am sure they all are heroes in your book. But if a æRagheadÆ dose it he is a terrorist, wake up ffs. Think about it this way, Russia comes and invades the USA, but then leaves, but before that they give Manhattan to the Arabs, all of it, the pople that used to live their now are kicked to Canada and live in refugee camps for 50 years. What do expect to happen? Is it really leaving them alone a difficult thing? Let me point out this, the only countries in the Arab world that its leadership committed the worst crimes in your view, and still practice old rules to the letter, are backed 100% by the USA, Bin Laden and his followers where heroes in the 80s and where trained by the Best SAS and CIA agents at that time, you own president called them heroes. And they where all loved when they where fighting the big red. Stop being such a clueless hypocrite, you refer to over 1billion people in one term and take us all in one group, which is really really sad, b/c we have people who are like you just as ignorant and just as spiteful. b/c you people wont grow a Braine.

DarkMatter Sintered Sanity	Posted - 2007.11.15 18:06:00 - [41] Edited by: DarkMatter on 15/11/2007 18:07:25 Quote: Let me ask you this, how many times in American movies, and real solders scarified their lives by blowing them self up, to take out the enemy?? Yeah, blowing up women and children in a market is so heroic... Those women & children are very tough enemies I hear... Quote: Is it really leaving them alone a difficult thing? When nuclear proliferation is on the table, you bet! My Current Project
Rialtor Amarr Yarrrateers	Posted - 2007.11.15 18:09:00 - [42] Originally by: DarkMatter Edited by: DarkMatter on 15/11/2007 17:52:25 Dude, they don't want that. they want us to join their religion or die... A world leader. comes to the US, begs the students to join Islam, and then tell everyone there is no ***s in Iran because that is not allowed... How delusional are you people who think there is the slightest possibility of dialog with that? Gimme a freakin break... The facts are, if we left them alone for 50 years, they would still hate us, hate our culture, and want us to join them ore die... Gone are the days of one nation attacking another for territorial conquest, the west will no longer allow that to happen. Here, are the days of jihad and terrorism. The US is only fighting terrorist states, or those who support them... If they would stop blowing themselves up in markets and steets, and nations like Iran would stop funding that pathetic practice, our military would have no one to fight... Well the policies of the US and UK have a lot to do with the strength that the fundamentalist movement have today. If it were not for those policies 50 or so years ago we might have seen a very different Middle East than we do today. A few things need to happen to see any sort of real change: A) Both sides need to take a higher ground, for the last 50 or so years we've been playing a tit for tat game. B) More peaceful civil rights leaders need to emerge in the middle east, a Ghandi, a MLK, etc. C) Get a better response from people within those cultures that want to see change. We need to empower the people. ---- sig ---- Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world... Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.
Cipher7	Posted - 2007.11.15 18:13:00 - [43] Originally by: Rialtor Well sometimes you just have to call things the way they are. You can't let yourself become so tolerant that you tolerate intolerance. There is no absolute right and absolute wrong. Every society has its own set of moral judgements.
DarkMatter Sintered Sanity	Posted - 2007.11.15 18:13:00 - [44] Quote: Get a better response from people within those cultures that want to see change. We need to empower the people You don't think we're trying? No one in that culture wants to seem to step up to the plate, only extremist clerics seem to have the balls for that. Not the type of people we want in charge over there, CAUSE THEY WANT US ALL DEAD! My Current Project

ISD Santiago Cortes Caldari ISD Interstellar Correspondents	Posted - 2007.11.15 18:14:00 - [45] Locked Political discussion is best left to other sites that do it better than here. Rules Specifically #7. forum rules \| mailto:[email protected]

Rialtor Amarr Yarrrateers	Posted - 2007.11.15 18:19:00 - [46] Originally by: DarkMatter When nuclear proliferation is on the table, you bet! I dunno, the US goes to bat too many times. They don't have the missile technology to hit the US. They'd just threaten the region, and Europe at most, if that. If the Europeans don't care, I don't know why we should, it's not our backyard. I really don't see such a huge issue with Iran getting a nuke, they're alittle bit more rational than US policy makes them out to be. And the next generation of Iran are a bit more understanding than the generation in power. In 10 years Iran will be more progressive. So we kind of need to put that whole proliferation notion in check. The US doesn't need it's hands in everything. In fact we need alot of removing our hands our of things, we're on the cusp of a huge economic crisis currently. America has a negative trade deficit, and we borrow money to maintain our standards of living. Ummmmm....we're Africa, some major changes need to be made in this country, but hardly anyone admits it and just wants to maintain the status quo. ---- sig ---- Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world... Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.
Sir Scorpion Black Banners	Posted - 2007.11.15 18:29:00 - [47] Quote: Yeah, blowing up women and children in a market is so heroic... Those women & children are very tough enemies I hear... Nukes over Japan, not terrorism right? I am sure the kinds going to school that day where plotting some evil stuff. Over 150k killed. Napalm over Vietnam, oh yes those damn 6 year old CharlieÆs better burn to hell. Commie bastards. 3million Vietnamese killed. Tokyo firebombing, yep those wooden houses where a serious threat. Over 150k killed. Lets not forget the Berlin bombing. Oh and its ok to kill women and children with American supplied JADAMS and small diameter heavy mineral bombs. Apache gunshipÆs are ok as well right? ôAmerican news source says that for every Israeli chilled casualty is reported to the west at a rate of 200% compared to every Arab chilled killed, since Arab blood is cheaper right? Iraq war, Afghanistan war, I donÆt need to go through that list honey. But you get my point right? Oh and here is the killer line, why are their Israelis in Palestine, I know its all evil, but which is the greater evil, killing civilians that are invading you? Or killing them 10k miles away? Hmmm. Quote: When nuclear proliferation is on the table, you bet! Ah nukes, and let me ask you this who has the most nukes in the middle eastàerm I mean the only one that has nukes in the middle east, and who gave it to them? Quote: When terrorism stops, we will stop. Terrorism will never stop, because it's backed by a very popular culture/religion... When you and the likes of you realize what I said then terrorism will stop. Get it ? I would love to see you answer to what I have stated will be interesting now, donÆt claim to be clean when your as filthy as all of us.


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