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flnhst
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Posted - 2007.11.16 20:13:00 -
[1]
So i thought i would do a level 2 mission in my Caracal. I have the ship equipped with Assault Launchers, and different missiles. But as soon as the fight started, within a minute i was almost vaporized (warped out the last second).
What is advised for level 2 missions? Which ship? Which weapon?
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Matalino
Gallente
Datacore Harvesting
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Posted - 2007.11.16 20:16:00 -
[2]
Caracal should be able to handle level 2 missions. Most likely the problem is a lack of tanking skills, or an improperly fitted tank.
Assault Launchers are good for level 2 missions because you will face a lot of frigates.
Give us an idead of what else you have fitted to your ship. What type of tank do you have: passive or active shield tanks are generally recommended on a Caracal.
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Datacore Harvesting IPO |
Natalie Jax
Indecision Industries
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Posted - 2007.11.16 20:17:00 -
[3]
You should be able to handle level 2's in a Caracal. Assault missiles are a good weapon choice for them in my opinion. We'll need some more information in order to help you though.
1) What missions are giving you trouble?
2) How is your tank set up?
3) How good are your tanking skills?
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Viilaa
Caldari
OH Corp
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Posted - 2007.11.16 20:37:00 -
[4]
Make sure the missions isn't a fly through to the next gate and do the mission there. There are several missions that have very tough npcs at the first / second gate where you are supposed to avoid and jump to the third gate where the actual mission is. The one that comes to mind is rescuing the crew of a ship in the third location where the 2nd location has 2-3 frigates but as soon as you kill one cruisers warp in and it gets very tough very fast.
Viilaa
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flnhst
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Posted - 2007.11.16 20:50:00 -
[5]
I have Shield Operation at level 1, and Mechanic and Hull Upgrades both at level 3. I have one shieldbooster fitted, and two repairers (structure and armor). And reinforced steel plates.
The mission was one where i was supposed to get some stuff from a warehouse. I warped in (no gates), i travelled towards the warehouse when about 7-8 frigates appeared. I was able to kill two of them.
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Cygnus Zhada
Amarr
The Wild Hunt
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Posted - 2007.11.16 20:56:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Cygnus Zhada on 16/11/2007 20:58:42
Ah, you're trying to repair it all... it doesn't work that way. You HAVE to focus on one type of tanking, in your case; shieldtanking. The thing is if you half hartedly shield tank, crappy armortank and somewhat hulltank you gonna die. If you focus all your efforts on shieldtanking you'll live (longer).
There's 2 types of shield tanking, active and passive. Active makes use of the shield booster, passive makes use of the basic auto regen ability of shields by amplifying those. I have no idea how well a Caracal passive tanks so here's an active setup
High- probably heavy launchers, they give more range, enabling to stay outside the rats range. But Assault should work well ofcourse
mid- Medium shieldbooster, shield boost amplifier, cap recharger, 2 resists for the damage done to you (there's different sites that help you determine what kind of damage to expect in a mission, I'm not a missionrunner so don't have that link).
low- 2 Power Diagnostics
- edit - This is a hypothetical setup, i haven't triedit (don't fly Caldari) nor did I check if it actually fits, but it should give you some idea on what to aim for
That should make your tanking a whole lot better.
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Durn Loze
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Posted - 2007.11.16 21:43:00 -
[7]
Another way to improve the shield tank is to throw a couple or medium or large shield extenders on the caracal depending on what you can fit with the CPU/PG and your skills. You can sometimes balance these with some resists to get a better tank than going with just resists or just shield extenders. Basically play around with the different things that can improve your shield tank to find what works best for you.
But in general what was said before is true, focus on one tank type.
Durn
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Panch0Villa
Caldari
AFK
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Posted - 2007.11.16 21:50:00 -
[8]
Try this
Caracal
Highs
Assault Missile Launcher I x5, named if possible
Mids
10MN Afterburner I
Large Shield Booster I (if possible, if not, use a Medium Shield booster)
Ballistic Deflection Field I (For Guristas msisions)
Cap Recharger I
Cap Recharger I
Lows
Ballistic Control System I
Capacitor Power Relay I
If you are fighting different npc types, you need to know which resistances to tank against. The shield hardener will be whatever damage type the enemies use. If they use both or you don't know which, just use an invulnerability field hardener. Otherwise, use the appropriate type. Same goes for the type of missile you use. They have a weakness, and you need to exploit it to take them down as quickly as you can.
Re vera, potas bene. |
Cygnus Zhada
Amarr
The Wild Hunt
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Posted - 2007.11.16 22:15:00 -
[9]
 Originally by: Panch0Villa
Try this
Caracal
Highs
Assault Missile Launcher I x5, named if possible
Mids
10MN Afterburner I
Large Shield Booster I (if possible, if not, use a Medium Shield booster)
Ballistic Deflection Field I (For Guristas msisions)
Cap Recharger I
Cap Recharger I
Lows
Ballistic Control System I
Capacitor Power Relay I
If you are fighting different npc types, you need to know which resistances to tank against. The shield hardener will be whatever damage type the enemies use. If they use both or you don't know which, just use an invulnerability field hardener. Otherwise, use the appropriate type. Same goes for the type of missile you use. They have a weakness, and you need to exploit it to take them down as quickly as you can.
Uhm a cap power relay puts a penalty on shieldboosting, NEVER use one with a shieldbooster
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Sirtak
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Posted - 2007.11.16 22:37:00 -
[10]
Yeah, use those when you're flying an Amarr or something and armor-tanking, so that your shield won't matter much.
*grumbles about the rigs apparently being balanced against armor-tankers*
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Ael Wyrm
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Posted - 2007.11.16 23:29:00 -
[11]
You're also doing a mission where you don't have to kill all the NPCs. Just get the stuff from the warehouse and get out quickly. If you feel the need to kill them, run away with ABs cranked and pop them one by one with artillery. Don't try to stand and fight. And if they're still too tough, start a gang with corp mates.
I would also recommend training up your shield skills.
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Panch0Villa
Caldari
AFK
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Posted - 2007.11.16 23:44:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Panch0Villa on 16/11/2007 23:44:25
Originally by: Cygnus Zhada
Uhm a cap power relay puts a penalty on shieldboosting, NEVER use one with a shieldbooster
Ah, I thought it was shield recharge it affected for some reason.
Well, learn something everyday i spose.
/me sheepishly takes CPR's off all active shield-tanking ships
Re vera, potas bene. |
Dirk Magnum
FinFleet
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.11.17 00:04:00 -
[13]
Lot of good advice in this thread, so I'll keep my bit simple, and based on my own experiences with level 2's in a Caracal (tri-racial cruiser cross-training ftw... guess which race I didn't train  .)
First of all,
Originally by: Viilaa
Make sure the missions isn't a fly through to the next gate and do the mission there. There are several missions that have very tough npcs at the first / second gate where you are supposed to avoid and jump to the third gate where the actual mission is. The one that comes to mind is rescuing the crew of a ship in the third location where the 2nd location has 2-3 frigates but as soon as you kill one cruisers warp in and it gets very tough very fast.
Quoted for truth.
Next, here was my setup:
assault launcher x5
shield extenders x5 (I think they were probably all medium extenders, but just figure out how to get the most pure HP out of the configuration)
ballistic control x2
hobgoblin II x2
Very simple shield HP buffer, with launchers setup to put out as many missiles as possible as fast as possible. I had a crap load of skill points when I used this setup so you may not get as much out of it at first, but nonetheless it should still take on any level 2 kill mission without much trouble. If worse comes to worst, don't be afraid to warp out, dock & shield recharge, and go back... we all have to do it sometimes. There's no contest for "best mission tank", after all.
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flnhst
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Posted - 2007.11.17 01:21:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Cygnus Zhada
Edited by: Cygnus Zhada on 16/11/2007 20:58:42
Ah, you're trying to repair it all... it doesn't work that way. You HAVE to focus on one type of tanking, in your case; shieldtanking. The thing is if you half hartedly shield tank, crappy armortank and somewhat hulltank you gonna die. If you focus all your efforts on shieldtanking you'll live (longer).
There's 2 types of shield tanking, active and passive. Active makes use of the shield booster, passive makes use of the basic auto regen ability of shields by amplifying those. I have no idea how well a Caracal passive tanks so here's an active setup
High- probably heavy launchers, they give more range, enabling to stay outside the rats range. But Assault should work well ofcourse
mid- Medium shieldbooster, shield boost amplifier, cap recharger, 2 resists for the damage done to you (there's different sites that help you determine what kind of damage to expect in a mission, I'm not a missionrunner so don't have that link).
low- 2 Power Diagnostics
- edit - This is a hypothetical setup, i haven't triedit (don't fly Caldari) nor did I check if it actually fits, but it should give you some idea on what to aim for
That should make your tanking a whole lot better.
I tried your setup with the same mission. And there was vaporizing, but none on my side! I got the goods out of the warehouse, and as soon as things got too hot, i warped out and i completed the mission. Thanks everybody for the tips!
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Garborg
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.11.17 11:26:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Dirk Magnum
shield extenders x5 (I think they were probably all medium extenders, but just figure out how to get the most pure HP out of the configuration)
Aren't shield extenders affected by stacking bonus? If so wouldn't adding some resists or boosters to the last 2 medium slots be much better?
1th 100%
2th 80%
3th 60%
4th 40%
5th 20%
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Cygnus Zhada
Amarr
The Wild Hunt
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Posted - 2007.11.17 11:31:00 -
[16]
afaik they give a flat HP bonus, no stacking. What IS true that the % of shield regen gain gows down with every extender you add. Simply because the total becomes more so that adding a flat amount will be a lower %.
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Helen Hunts
Gallente
Red Dragon Mining inc
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Posted - 2007.11.17 15:35:00 -
[17]
Shield extenders give a flat HP bonus, but do not affect the shield recharge TIME.
Shield recharge time is exactly the same regardless of how many extenders you put on.
This means that every extender you put on increases the HP regenerated per second. If you've got the mids full of extenders, and Power Diagnostics (which increase powergrid, cap and shield totals and increase recharge rate) in the lows you'll have an incredible shield buffer, but you'll be sacrificing the ability to do as much damage.
Check out the Ships and Fittings channel for some really nice/nasty fitting ideas. (Nice for you, nasty for your target)
_______________________________
Mine da rocks, make more ships.
Pop da rats, make more rigs.
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Any Questions? |
Andreea DeFuente
Gallente
Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
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Posted - 2007.11.17 18:24:00 -
[18]
Originally by: flnhst
I have Shield Operation at level 1, and Mechanic and Hull Upgrades both at level 3. I have one shieldbooster fitted, and two repairers (structure and armor). And reinforced steel plates.
As already mentioned - you are trying to repair all three things at once. Choose between armor or shields. In case of Caracal, I would go for shields. Do not choose hull repairs - hull has no resistances at all (unless you plan to fit damage control, but that would waste two slots).
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Shanur
Minmatar
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2007.11.19 10:48:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Panch0Villa
Edited by: Panch0Villa on 16/11/2007 23:44:25
Originally by: Cygnus Zhada
Uhm a cap power relay puts a penalty on shieldboosting, NEVER use one with a shieldbooster
Ah, I thought it was shield recharge it affected for some reason.
Well, learn something everyday i spose.
/me sheepishly takes CPR's off all active shield-tanking ships
It does affect shield recharge, but at the expense of cap recharge. It's a great module to fit on a passive tank, but with an active tank, you'll need all the cap you can muster.
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Cygnus Zhada
Amarr
The Wild Hunt
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Posted - 2007.11.19 11:55:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Shanur
Originally by: Panch0Villa
Edited by: Panch0Villa on 16/11/2007 23:44:25
Originally by: Cygnus Zhada
Uhm a cap power relay puts a penalty on shieldboosting, NEVER use one with a shieldbooster
Ah, I thought it was shield recharge it affected for some reason.
Well, learn something everyday i spose.
/me sheepishly takes CPR's off all active shield-tanking ships
It does affect shield recharge, but at the expense of cap recharge. It's a great module to fit on a passive tank, but with an active tank, you'll need all the cap you can muster.
While trying not to sound like an ass; Have you AT ALL checked the info on that module?
Welcome to EVE Online:
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Press 2 for Minmatar, PVP Online
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Shanur
Minmatar
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2007.11.19 16:00:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Cygnus Zhada
While trying not to sound like an ass; Have you AT ALL checked the info on that module?
You make me sound like one. Justly so. I mistakenly got Shield power relay and Cap power relay mixed up. Fixed.
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Jendra Force
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.11.19 16:40:00 -
[22]
There's 2 different Power Relays, one for shields (SPR - which increases shield hp/sec recharge at the cost of Capacitor capacity), and one for Capacitors (CPR), I think people here are getting them confused.
However, Cruisers don't have great cap, so a SPR will kill yer overall durability/stamina.
If you go with Assault Launchers (Assault Launchers will do more damage then Heavy Launchers in missions with mostly frigates) on the highs.
Then 2 Shield Hardeners for the specific NPC. Like a Heat Dissipation Field I and Photon Scattering Field I for Corpii NPC's.
A Large Shield Extender
A Medium Shield Booster
10MN Afterburner
With a Caracal, it's got a bad Tank and weak Cap. Your best bet is to keep at range. The Caracal has a bonus to Missile Velocity. Faster missiles mean more range. You should be able to get Assault Missiles over 20k pretty easily, and if you have decent missile skills over 30k. The AB will help you keep that range.
If you go with 2 PDU's in the low slows, you can change the mid's to:
10MN AB
2 x Large Shield Extenders
and 2 Shield Hardeners.
With some basic skills you can run this permanently with all modules on, and have enough tank to hold (in cases of ambush) till you can get the NPC's at arms length. If your feeling comfortable with the Tank, you can even replace the AB with a Invulnerability Field and you'll take even less damage, but on a Caracal I prefer quicker.
Also, the Caracal has a bonus to Kinetic Missiles, so if you use Bloodclaw Light Missiles, you'll up your DPS a bit against mobs that aren't entirely resistant to Kinetic.
And don't forget to use Drones, it's a nice bit of extra damage.
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Dretzle Omega
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.11.19 17:19:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Dretzle Omega on 19/11/2007 17:19:19
Easy Caracal set-up that got me through my Lvl 2s:
Large Shield Extender x 3
Rat-specific amplifier x 1
Other Rat-specific amplifier x 1
Shield Power Relay x 2
Feel free to switch out a Large Shield Extender for an afterburner on missions that need it (shield resists is often more important than shield HP, so leave the two rat-specific amplifiers on), or an invulnerability field if you need some extra tank. With this tank, and half-way decent skills and piloting, you should be able to do most if not all Lvl 2s without warping out. (assault missile launchers in the highs, of course)
Also, the mission where you fly to a warehouse to get an item, if you have trouble with the rats, just get to the warehouse as fast as possible and get the item and warp out. You don't actually have to fight the rats if you don't want to.
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Ancy Denaries
Caldari
Isseras Manufacture
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Posted - 2007.11.19 17:57:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Ancy Denaries on 19/11/2007 17:58:24
5x 'Arbalest' Assault Missile Launcher (Bloodclaw Light missiles)
---
3x Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
2x T1 active hardeners (Kin/Therm for me since I fight Guristas)
---
2x Beta Reactor Control: Shield Power Relay I
This setup tanks about 115 DPS in full passive setup (yes, even with active hardeners it's a passive setup). Completely cap stable.
EDIT: DOOH! Just saw the above post :D Well, just proves it's a good setup. I tanked all lvl 2 missions in that setup without breaking a sweat. Having shieldtanking skills (Shield Management/Operation) at 3 or 4 really helps a lot.
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