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Kazuo Ishiguro House of Marbles Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.19 17:37:00 - [31] Edited by: Kazuo Ishiguro on 19/11/2007 17:41:41 Working from the same sort of assumptions, if you build your own T1 freighters & components, you can build 2 races' jump freighters with a total capital of about 25bn isk. If you buy from others, you need less capital (nearer to 15bn), but that eats into your margins (although it does reduce the workload). You end up with roughly the same ROI. Bottom line: if you can find someone who's willing to produce T1 freighters for a 100m mark up on the mineral costs (or better), get them to do it. A similar argument applies to the BPCs, but you'd need so many BPOs to be self-sufficient that it wouldn't be worthwhile, especially when there are already several IPOs already set up to produce them. Paying about 150-200m per bpc would be quite reasonable. So far I've been assuming that you're doing all your own invention. This is reasonable (especially if you've already got the necessary characters set up). The capital costs involved are (almost certainly) negligible compared to those of the various BPOs, even if you get someone else to build the T1 freighters for you. Oh, one last thing - with a 20% mark up over the build costs (split between BPC producers, T1 freighter producers and T2 freighter producers), we're looking at 3.5bn-4bn isk per jump freighter. The lion's share of the profits would be going to the JF producer with the numbers I've discussed above. My research services Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant stats
Kazuo Ishiguro House of Marbles Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.29 19:28:00 - [32] Originally by: Patch notes Jump Freighters Jump freighters are the latest generation of freighter. They are based upon their tech one counterparts but with significant enhancements. They are faster and more agile, with a larger capacitor. The main change however, is a large portion of the cargo bay has been taken over by a capital class jump drive, the same type used in carriers, dreadnaughts, motherships and titans. This means that whilst the ship has around one third of the cargo capacity, it is capable of jumping between systems without the use of stargates. These ships still retain the ability to use normal stargates, and can be constructed in high security space. The last part is important - it'd be possible to conduct the whole IPO in high sec (assuming all moon materials are bought on the market). If I had a character able to manage production of these ships, I might have a go at running an IPO myself, but I think I'll wait and see what the demand while I train a few more skills. My research services Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant stats
Motivated Prophet Zerodot Schools Power Corrupts Industry's	Posted - 2007.11.30 05:31:00 - [33] I would consider it a great personal favor if you'd go through and remove all apostrophes from pluralizations in your original posts. I would then also be physically capable of reading what you wrote. It is, of course, up to you if you'd consider that a good thing. Coincidentally, ZERO. will likely be very close to the front of the line to acquire a jump freighter, unless I can figure out some alternate ways to schlep my products down to 0.0 with the existing carrier. MP -- Proud steward of 47 billion isk in public money, and counting. Ask me about mineral compression!
SiJira	Posted - 2007.12.02 20:52:00 - [34] so now they are a lot like the black ops - they can both jump and use gates ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn [yellow]Kaem
Roemy Schneider BINFORD Solidus Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.03 11:25:00 - [35] don't forget the private freighter copy guys! -.- it doesn't always have to be an IPO :D - putting the gist back into logistics
Kwint Sommer Incoherent Inc Otaku Invasion	Posted - 2007.12.04 04:38:00 - [36] I'm quite interested in this and think there's good potential for profit. I've emailed you with a proposition that would get you 20% of the needed capital. ___________________________________________ 5% Mining Implants & 5% Manufacturing Implants *From 110M to 150M
Kirjava Lothian Quay Industries Zzz	Posted - 2007.12.07 23:32:00 - [37] Originally by: Kwint Sommer I'm quite interested in this andwoahhink there's good potential for profit. I've emailed you with a proposition that would get you 20% of the needed capital. Had a look at that, could be useful if this is done. Well, woah, the price of the components BPO is much much lower than I thought - 14M EACH!! going over the numbers now to redefine them, this is very very cheap to do now it looks. Rate my charecters please, updated so need 3 more, 2M isk for each good review
Kazuo Ishiguro House of Marbles Zzz	Posted - 2007.12.08 00:32:00 - [38] If you could find buyers at 4bn per freighter, you'd make a 13% return on about 25bn total capital (buying freighters & T1 BPCs separately). It also happens that the Gallente one is cheapest to produce (due to racial carbide prices) - even with a thinner margin, the returns would equal those of any other IPO, and the whole thing could be done in high sec. My research services Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant stats
Kwint Sommer Incoherent Inc Otaku Invasion	Posted - 2007.12.09 11:05:00 - [39] What's up? Should I start liquidating assets? ___________________________________________ 5% Mining Implants & 5% Manufacturing Implants *From 110M to 150M
Kirjava Lothian Quay Industries Zzz	Posted - 2007.12.09 13:37:00 - [40] Edited by: Kirjava on 09/12/2007 13:44:44 Originally by: Kwint Sommer What's up? Should I start liquidating assets? ]I havent decided, if a few more people express an interest then I will start it as an IPO, but since it is in highsec, you said you could provide BPC and it is just a case of finding couriers to move materials to the station I could do it. Which BPC would you be selling btw?
Kwint Sommer Incoherent Inc Otaku Invasion	Posted - 2007.12.10 03:20:00 - [41] The way I see the numbers, -admittedly I did a very brief and non rigorous bit of approximation- we have a baseline profit of about 10% with a reasonable expectation of 14% returns and having T2 capital component BPO's could prove very lucrative down the road. I evemailed you about the pair of freighter BPO's and I can invest 4B beyond that. If we really come up short during the IPO I can probably sc****together another 2 or 3 billion but that would put me at 10B which is at least 50% of this business....lets cross that bridge when we come to it. Suffice it to say, I'm very interested and pending the review of a rigorous business plan I'm very serious about investing in this. I'll keep in touch in-game, this is mostly posted here for the purposes of the IPO. ___________________________________________ 5% Mining Implants & 5% Manufacturing Implants From 110M to 150M
Kirjava Lothian Quay Industries Zzz	Posted - 2007.12.10 12:31:00 - [42] Read your mails, now composing a new IPO plan, a few issues with locking prints down though due to them being worth pennies as opposed to half a billion I expected and some skilling up I overlooked which is being fixed. Kaz did an excellent spreadsheet he may want to share with you about the components and whatnot. Due to the skills issue the first few batches will have to buy components on the open market, 5 days for each to level 4 around 10 times pluss the 2 weeks to get capital ship construction to 4 is the problem here, after that it will be moving high end components into self production. More detailed in the mails I sent you.
Kirjava Lothian Quay Industries Zzz	Posted - 2007.12.13 10:14:00 - [43] An interesting titbit of information I picked up in teh Satrbase discussion forum; Originally by: CCP Chronotis Jump freighters do not have a 100% chance of success, we only ever said it would have a high chance of success. If you were lead to interpret that as 100% then I apologize of course. People have said that success is around the same as inventing frigates, so the number of needed freighter BPC would be higher than the 1:1 ration I have in this plan.
Kokob	Posted - 2007.12.13 12:34:00 - [44] Chronitis has also just commented in stations forums that they are reviewing possibly changing the resulting runs you can get from freighter invention. Might wanna put invention on hold till ccp decides to crap or get off the pot.
Kirjava Lothian Quay Industries Zzz	Posted - 2007.12.13 12:40:00 - [45] Originally by: Kokob Chronitis has also just commented in stations forums that they are reviewing possibly changing the resulting runs you can get from freighter invention. Might wanna put invention on hold till ccp decides to crap or get off the pot. CCP has been deciding how to buf Ammar for over a year now, I won't hold my breath on this one. Thanks for the heads up though Looks like I would have to consider a 25% success ratio if it follows frigate invention results, so needing to do (on average) 4 invention runs to get a 1 run BPC. Comes to just over a billion isk for the blueprint
Kirjava Lothian Quay Industries Zzz	Posted - 2007.12.13 15:53:00 - [46] Btw to Kwint, having a few probs logging in atm, so I will tell you here. Around halfway done with the writeup, there are a few issues such as the invention chance rates being different, and trying to workout how much of a % will be given to contracted people to make the components. Is there anyone here building T2 Cap components that could give a quote on how much they are/plan to be selling them for?
Kwint Sommer Incoherent Inc Otaku Invasion	Posted - 2007.12.14 12:12:00 - [47] Kirjava: I'll post this here since you're having trouble logging. I've been reading about the 30% base chance of inventing a JF from a T1 BPC and I'm rather worried as I thought it would be 100%. I also saw a dev comment that they're looking into changing JF invention. Obviously I think we should wait until CCP decides what they're going to do before attempting to invent anything. But in the mean time, should I purchases a pair of BPO's and get them copying? I've also been looking at the materials needed for producing them and just based on 0 ME for all the components the Caldari JF is going to cost a fair bit more than the others. Maybe this is just the result of temporary fluctuations in the Jita prices but do we still want to do Caldari and Gallente? I get that tons of people fly Caldari capitals and it has the largest capacity but 1.8B is no small investment.... Have you found a short term source for the T2 components or at least gotten an idea of what they will be selling for so we can nail down some values for an IPO? Actually, forget the IPO for the moment, figure out if we can even turn a profit? By the way, when do you predict we would be able to move into full in-house production of the components? I've liquidated 6B and should have another 2B in the next few days so I'm just about in a position to move on this. ~Kwint ___________________________________________ 5% Mining Implants & 5% Manufacturing Implants *From 110M to 150M
Kirjava Lothian Quay Industries Zzz	Posted - 2007.12.14 12:33:00 - [48] I got a new router and it cleared up, so I can get back in again, I am online atm if you want to chat. Have asked in a few places and havent found people wanting to sell the components yet i'm afraid, am going to try a request in the WTB section to find people interested in supplying the components. I agree with holding out for a while, and whilst the Gallente (Anshar) one looks to be good for production the Charon one might be avoided by buyers because of the higher price. I'm going to put a request in the WTB forum requesting people interested in supplying the components. Given that they will probably want a fair markup on the components. The Ad I put up is here requesting interested parties to tell me what they can supply and how much. I will put that into the spreadsheet to see how much to will cost to build them based on the market.

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