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Christa Larne
Minmatar
Matari Fleet Recon
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Posted - 2007.11.21 11:59:00 -
[1]
Pod pilots represent a tiny minority within each of the factions; we are a few thousand out of the many many billions that live on the planets and in the stations. Agreed we are each wealthy beyond the dreams of any regular citizen but does that make us better than them?
Why is is that so many pod pilot organisations believe that they have the right to demand changes to the government of these factions? Perhaps it is the fact that planetside and stationside citizens do not have access to post on this Galnet and so in the absence of their voices some assume that they are the only ones talking?
Pod pilots are pretty much independent of the rules and regulations of the factional governments. We can travel where we will, work for whom we choose; we have a freedom that can be difficult to comprehend. We can choose to be bound by the regulations of a particular government but that government cannot enforce its will upon us. In the main we are controlled by Concord more than we are by Republic or Federation, State or Empire.
These governments exist to serve not the pod pilot community but that majority of citizens whose lives will never take them further than a station in orbit, or perhaps service as crew on a vessel, pod piloted or not. We can choose to support these governments or not, to live under their sway or not, but what we cannot expect is for them to take seriously the demands of a privileged few who have no real understanding of what it is to live a planet-bound life.
I support the Republic, respect the Federation, accept the State and loathe the Empire. Am I entitled to air my views on any or all of these? Yes of course I am. Can I attempt to persuade people to share my views? Of course I can. Can I demand changes to the government and regime, changes that will not impact me in any way but that will impact on the lives of many billions? No, that is going too far. Attempting to tell other people how they should live their lives, especially when it is not a life that I share, is arrogant presumption.
This applies to the supporters of all factions, not just to my own. It is time we recognised our own place in the grand scheme of things and that we learned to respect the right of that silent (to our ears) majority to decide how and by whom they will be governed. After all, it is their lives that we are talking about, not ours.
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Join us and help make the Republic strong. |
Drethon
Gallente
Lutin Group
Acheron Federation
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Posted - 2007.11.21 12:10:00 -
[2]
Another difference that pod pilots must remember is that while we are able to continue our existence after death, most people only get to die once. While we can rush into battle to defend our principals, there are many who will not be as willing to rush off to a death they cannot return from.
You are most wise to understand that our small minority has great power but still only represent few and must remember the needs of the many who do not have power.
"I may not believe in what you believe in but I will fight to the death to protect your right to believe." |
Tablaren
Kingdom of Kador
Dark Matter Coalition
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Posted - 2007.11.21 12:12:00 -
[3]
This pilot seems to be slowly walking towards the proper path.
Step forth child, walk your path. Leave behind your doubts, your fears, your pride and embrace faith for what she is. It's a great step but you show potential.
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Kazan Bho
Minmatar
Masuat'aa Matari
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.11.21 19:49:00 -
[4]
Have you ever considered the reasons why the Silent Majority are indeed silent?
When the silent majority actually spoke up and protested against the actions of the Republic Parliament, they were branded terrorists and became hunted by security services working for the very people who they were protesting against! This is not an attempt to condone or condemn the actions of the Bloody Hands, but if this is the reaction against those with a voice, you begin to understand the prevalence of silence.
You are truly unaware of the effects that politics have on planetside communities? I may be a pod pilot, but I have family. I have friends. I have a home. I belong to a large community and I make every effort to remain involved in local politics. The position that I hold within my tribe actually makes it is very hard to avoid.
 Quote:
These governments exist to serve not the pod pilot community but that majority of citizens
You seem to be implying that Pod pilots are excluded from a governments remit. I am as much a Matari citizen as my Father, my Brother and the countless Brothers and Sisters that live in constant fear of their safety. It is MY government as much as it is the government of my neighbours. It serves ME as much as it serves my neighbours. Lately however, I do not believe it has been serving any of us with even the smallest degree of competence.
I am in a privilidged position, as are the Pod pilot community as a whole. We are a little harder to ignore than the voiceless millions and while I agree that such a position should not be abused, I refuse to sit idly by while our government negates the single biggest threat to our people.
You seem to be suggesting that we should all shut up and do as we are told. That doesn't sound much like the kind of freedom the Republic is built on. If the vast Matari populace are unable or unwilling to speak for themselves, who else will voice their opinions?
Quote:
Can I demand changes to the government and regime
Damn right I can. As can any free Matari. Such a right is something that I and others fight long and hard to protect. Or would you rather we all bowed our head and marched onto the nearest Bestower heading for Sarum Prime?
Quote:
changes that will not impact me in any way but that will impact on the lives of many billions?
The changes for me personally would be HUGE. The changes for my friends and loved ones in Isendeldik would be even bigger still.
Quote:
Attempting to tell other people how they should live their lives ... is [an] arrogant presumption
I completely agree.
Telling the government how their people want to live their lives, despite their refusal to listen? The needs of the many demand that we try.
I speak loudly exactly because the silent majority cannot.
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Sepherim
Amarr
Ordo Quaesitoris
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Posted - 2007.11.22 01:45:00 -
[5]
This is a problem spread from the ideas of both the Republic and the Democracy. The idea that the system depends on the person. It doesn't. The system, whatever political system it is, depends on the ruler. The voice of the rest don't matter.
Then, of course, it is understandable that you protest and try to change this all. Afterall, you walk a blind path, following a leader that has no real right to rule.
Ordo Quaesitoris Forum |
Daelin Blackleaf
Aliastra
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Posted - 2007.11.22 10:51:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Daelin Blackleaf on 22/11/2007 10:52:40
The system is not dependent upon the individual, it is responsible for the majority. If the majorities interests are not upheld then the leader will be removed in short order.
A leaders right to lead is determined by the fact that he has achieved a position of leadership. If he is not deserving then it will be taken from him.
How does this differ between the empires?
As for the over-inflated egos of many capsuleers it would seem they have become so accustomed to controlling their own little empires they forget we capsuleers have little say in societies we can support but are no longer truly part of.
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EVE Trinity: THE SKY IS FALLING! |
Kade Jeekin
Masuat'aa Matari
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.11.22 11:47:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Christa Larne
...Can I attempt to persuade people to share my views? Of course I can. Can I demand changes to the government and regime, changes that will not impact me in any way but that will impact on the lives of many billions? No, that is going too far. Attempting to tell other people how they should live their lives, especially when it is not a life that I share, is arrogant presumption...
This paragraph is self-contradictory. On one hand you suggest that it's OK by you for us to attempt to persuade others and on the other you tell us that demanding things is too far. Surely demanding is a form of persuasion? Threatening is a form of persuasion too.
It's all a question of where to draw the line. You've moved from one side to another and are now attempting to persuade those you left that your side is better. Keep trying, I look around and am not convinced. The stakes are high but the prize is worthy.
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Outface the depths of evil with clarity
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Rodj Blake
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.11.22 12:28:00 -
[8]
Pod pilots can have an effect on the opinions of planetary populations. One needs only look at the effects of Kostantin Mort's sermons and the U'K's 1 ISK for Midular campaign to understand that.
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
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Ando Mevoran
Transcendent Creations Inc.
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Posted - 2007.11.22 12:34:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Rodj Blake
Pod pilots can have an effect on the opinions of planetary populations. One needs only look at the effects of Kostantin Mort's sermons and the U'K's 1 ISK for Midular campaign to understand that.
Quite so. although any democratic system of government is founded upon the principle of "one man, one vote" - and capsuleers, being only one person, thus only get one vote - it is nevertheless the case that we hold a significant celebrity status.
In the Federation in particular the opinions of a celebrity, whether or not they are well-informed, can influence the attitude of millions.
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3ll3
Gallente
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2007.11.22 16:29:00 -
[10]
Ms Larne has a good point we pod pilots act pretty like Gods and Goddesses just because we are nigh un-immortal and able to gaver Isk in such quantity that we look down on the normal planet and stationed bound individuals as things to be used and disposed of, so many of us treat our crews like modules to be simply replaced like we do ammo with out even considering them to be people like you and me.
Though I and many I know respect and look after those in our employ I till fill great guilt at the Isk I earn and the Isk the average person earns on a planet or station.
When we destroy complexÆs that are gambling dens or brothels we are murdering people that operate and take pleasure there who are not our enemy but are just in the wrong place at the wrong time, but do we spare a tear for them as we look with entertained smiles at the fire works of their destruction.
I think we all need now and then to have some one remind us that we are not Gods/Goddesses that we are just people as well, and one spoke of us obeying only concord this is not true their are many who do not and most of which dwell where Concord dares not go.
I look at the stars some times and fid my self wondering f we take what ahs been given to us by Creation for Granted, some of us especially since we where made by the hands of mankind and complain about having a raw deal but we should be grateful for even existing..
Maybe thatÆs why the Great Wormhole of Legends if it even actually existed at all closed because of our own Greed and Desire to play with Devine Powers but then these are probably just babbling drivel from some youth with to much time on his hands.
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Amoun Ra
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.11.22 17:06:00 -
[11]
Even tough i agree with you that the voice of billions are not heard by the governments however i disagree on the presumption that we pod pilots with the power we yield and our celebrity status are exempted from the rule of the great empires. It is crucial to understand that our very own lively hood is thanks to the state and the great corporations that provide for the citizens. Think about all the wealth we have made and the grand ships that we fly aren't those available thanks to the state and the corporations of the state, how many times have we survived death thanks to the clones provided by the medical centers of the state. Even CONCORD which you claim is the only authority over pod pilots was founded and is funded by the great empires.
That said one can not ignore we do have certain influence on the path of events yet one must never forget that that influence was given to us by the empires and the mega corporations in our universe.Do not be mistaken we are under control of the empires weather we like it or not we are just more privileged than the other millions you talk of. |
Ugleb
Khumatari Holdings
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.11.22 17:41:00 -
[12]
I was born within the Republic as a man, not a capsuleer. The implants in my skull came much later. Before I underwent the operations I could make any demand of the government I liked, as can any other citizen.
But now that I have implants in my skull I lose that right? Why? Why should a neural implant forfeit my right to participate in the politics of my home nation? The notion is absurd!
When I speak today my wealth and power simply makes my voice louder than before, not different or illegitimate. A famous Holoreel star or dare I say a politician has the same affect, their fame or status draws increasing attention to their views. But does that mean they must foreit their rights to call for change in the way their homeland is governed? I think not.
When I call for change it is the people I appeal to, it is their choice to listen or not. We have seen mass protest rallies on the worlds of the Republic and in the State that involved no capsuleers, we have also seen indifference. The views of capsuleers are as mixed as those of the humble common man working in an unremarked factory, throughout history the famous have lobbied for political change, today one segment of the famous happen to have neural implants to go with their wealth. That's society for you. To remove ourselves from politics removes ourselves from the common man, I try to preserve my humanitarian perspective.
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Darth Sage
Amarr
En-Slavers
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Posted - 2007.11.22 19:33:00 -
[13]
We are superior and as such above all others why should
we give credit or even consider the lower and far lesser
creatures that do not fly a capsule, the governments of
this galaxy should be on their bended knees worshiping
us for just letting them live for we have the power to
level entire city states with the greatest of ease!
______________________________
En-Slavers we follow the true path of the sani sabik... |
Andreus Ixiris
Gallente
Mixed Metaphor
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Posted - 2007.11.22 19:55:00 -
[14]
Yeah, like the world is suddenly going to start worshiping you now... they didn't before, what did you think has changed?
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Mixed Metaphor is now recruiting! Contact me for details. |
Rana Ash
Minmatar
Aeon Trinity
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Posted - 2007.11.22 20:02:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Andreus Ixiris
Yeah, like the world is suddenly going to start worshiping you now... they didn't before, what did you think has changed?
Perhaps it is snowing in hell
¦on Trinity is recruting, inquire within for details
lyret dedreen
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Christa Larne
Minmatar
Matari Fleet Recon
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Posted - 2007.11.22 20:27:00 -
[16]
If the Amarr invade the Minmatar Republic and enslave the planetside and stationside populations, those who they do not kill of course, this will have no material impact on those of us who hold pod licences. The Empire may task their security forces to harrass those of us who they hold in poor standing but we will be free to respond in whatever way we choose. We can fight, we can leave, but most importantly we cannot be enslaved. The Yulai accords protect us from that fate.
Those who call for a rebellion, for the people to rise up in arms against the Amarr, do so from the safety and comfort of immunity and risk not their own life and freedom but the lives and freedoms of the billions on the planet. Risk your own life by all means but risking the life of others without their agreement is not acceptable. It is also rather easy to demand that someone else do the fighting for you.
And when I referred to the silent majority I meant in regards to these boards which are exclusively for the use of pod pilots. There are many forms of communication for the planetside population in which they can and do express themselves. Suggestions that the government are suppressing expression or freedoms have no foundation in fact whatsoever. And as for the Bloody Hands, you really do need to make your mind up whether you support them or condemn them. They are terrorist who attacked the Republic and they got what they deserve. I guess the fact that you want to encourage other people to follow suit makes it a bit hard for you to entirely distance yourself from them.
I think it is important that the pod pilot community should have a voice. I think it is perfectly acceptable when that voice is used to make political comment, to raise concerns, to try and guide opinion.
And yes, perhaps threats are a form of persuasion, but they take away the free will of the target individuals. You could almost go so far as to say that you want to force people to do what you want them to. Now who does that sound like...
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Join us and help make the Republic strong. |
Kazan Bho
Minmatar
Masuat'aa Matari
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.11.22 21:07:00 -
[17]
Quote:
I think it is important that the pod pilot community should have a voice. I think it is perfectly acceptable when that voice is used to make political comment, to raise concerns, to try and guide opinion....... but we cannot expect [The Government] to take seriously the demands of a privileged few who have no real understanding of what it is to live a planet-bound life.
So we should speak up, but not be surprised when we get ignored?
I count myself among the fortunate. The Amarr have yet to reach my people. I did not lose family, nor friends, nor possessions during their invasions. The material impact on this pod pilot has indeed been minimal so far. I sincerely hope that I never need call upon that luck again.
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Michael Bross
Minmatar
Masuat'aa Matari
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.11.23 09:44:00 -
[18]
:Republic claims responsibility for rebel leader's death:
...The public response to Muritor's death has been one of outrage. Multiple wakes and vigils have been held in cities all over the Republic, and dissenter rallies have been held calling for Karin Midular's resignation.
:Nine killed and dozens arrested in Dober Harn riots, protests increasing in frequency Republic-wide:
A bloody riot erupted yesterday evening at what was to be a peaceful rally in Gelfiven V metropolis Dober Harn. Hundreds of people had gathered at Liorren Square, the cityÆs most populous locale, to protest the Republic ParliamentÆs actions in recent weeks and the rule of Prime Minister Karin Midular.
:Republic unrest continues, Bloody Hands support grows:
Matar - "One ISK for Midular" said many of the banners at a large protest rally held today. Local police forces estimated the attendance at around two million people, who packed the main promenade of Matar Prime.
:Karishal's Defiance ended:
..."The Voices of Matar' held a protest rally against the current government of the Republic.
:RSS tasked with hunting down Bloody Hands of Matar:
The RSS's *****down is already under way. Two days ago, the members of an organization known as the "Voices of Matar" were arrested in a large-scale operation and brought in for questioning. They are still being held under charges of suspected ties to the Bloody Hand terrorists. A number of other raids have been reported across the Republic, but the RSS has yet to release a statement pertaining to the results of its continuing investigation, stating only that "inquiries are continuing apace."
-The Matari people have spoken out multiple times and in large numbers.
-They have also repeatedly been silenced by the Office of the Prime Minister and her RSS lackies.
-They have either died or dissappeared from the Eve cluster never to be heard from again.
Seems to me we as pod pilots are but echoing the words of the masses. We have only used our wealth and status to spread their word. We carry on as their banner bearers as we cannot be so easily silenced.
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Telemicus Thrace
Thrace Inc
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.11.23 10:15:00 -
[19]
Well said Brother.
"Risk your own life by all means but risking the life of others without their agreement is not acceptable."
Very true. Midular seeks to silence all voices of dissent. By forcing people into ignorance and seeking to appease our blood enemies her regime is putting the the lives of every man woman and child in the Republic at risk without their consent.
We say this is wrong, we say it is time to rise as free men and women and stand as one against the night. Those who choose to risk their lives in this cause stand beside us as Brothers and Sisters.
The Republicans fear we will bring war. Matari awaken! we have been in a war for lives and our freedom for nearly a thousand years!
Rise!
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Christa Larne
Minmatar
Matari Fleet Recon
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Posted - 2007.11.23 11:06:00 -
[20]
Since when has it been the case that the news wires ever reported anything that did not increase their circulation? All of the reports listed above refer to a tiny minority on a single planet. There are thousands of inhabited planets in the Republic who are quite happy getting on with their lives. Unfortunately "nothing happening on ten thousand planets" or "twenty billion people did not turn out to oppose Midular" do not make for good headlines. That doesn't make them any less true.
As always you are taking isolated incidents and trying to apply them to the population as a whole without any evidence whatsoever to support them.
We are each fully entitled to our views, and to air them. But stating them loudly and repeatedly does not make them right. For either of us. I accept your point of view, I don't agree with it but I accept your right to hold it and I am willing to set our differences aside and focus on those things that we have in common. I am willing to fight for UNITY despite those differences because there is so much more upon which we agree and because the Republic needs all of us.
When are you going to give up your pointless and destructive assault on the leadership of the Republic; when are you going to accept that your view is not universal and never will be; when are you going to start working towards UNITY between the Minmatar rather than formenting a civil war that will deliver us all into the waiting hands of our enemies?
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Join us and help make the Republic strong. |
Kade Jeekin
Masuat'aa Matari
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.11.23 13:07:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Kade Jeekin on 23/11/2007 13:12:33
Edited by: Kade Jeekin on 23/11/2007 13:12:03
Originally by: Christa Larne
...All of the reports listed above refer to a tiny minority on a single planet. There are thousands of inhabited planets in the Republic who are quite happy getting on with their lives....
"...Multiple wakes and vigils have been held in cities all over the Republic..."
UNITY is with all the Minmatar peoples, not just those in the Republic, we include the enslaved, and the outcast. Of course, there are some who work against us, those in the Mandate, or in the Amarrian paramilitaries. The tribes, even within the Republic, are not of one mind. Take the Brutor tribe elders, for example, they also "actively pursue a continuation of the war against the Amarrians and their underlings, the Ammatars".
(edit) removed speculation on Christa's opinions.
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Outface the depths of evil with clarity
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Christa Larne
Minmatar
Matari Fleet Recon
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Posted - 2007.11.23 13:50:00 -
[22]
Of course multiple wakes and vigils were held over the death of Muritor. He was a great man. That does not imply any political emphasis, merely that people regretted his passing.
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Join us and help make the Republic strong. |
Daelin Blackleaf
Aliastra
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Posted - 2007.11.23 15:07:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Rodj Blake
Pod pilots can have an effect on the opinions of planetary populations. One needs only look at the effects of Kostantin Mort's sermons and the U'K's 1 ISK for Midular campaign to understand that.
Quite true Mr. Blake. We cannot directly "vote" or "petition" or have whatever other rights we had as citizens but we certainly have a great deal of influence.
That said we have no rights, we can't demand anything of them, and can not expect to be catered to. Our power in this sphere is similar to that of a foreign group lobbying for change, albeit an exceptionally wealthy and powerful foreign group.
--------
EVE Trinity: THE SKY IS FALLING! |
Michael Bross
Minmatar
Masuat'aa Matari
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.11.23 18:23:00 -
[24]
Ms. Larne,
We continue our "pointless assault against the government" because all non-pod pilots who have spoken out have been silenced. The "Voices of Matar" started with but a single rally in which thousands of Matari attended. Within weeks their word had spread and a protest of 2 million was held on the capital world of the Republic. Protests continued... VoM broadcats continued... and what happens, RSS commando teams storm their comms centers, arresting anyone in association and seizing equipment on "suspected ties to terrorists". Hell... I am a terrorist by Amarrian definition. Will the RSS storm my clans home and seize my family? Will we ever here from the VoM again? I have no clue. They have dissappeared with no trial and no explanation by the government.
We as pod pilots do only what the common man can no longer do when we hold our rallies. We show the Republic government for the corrupt and vile entity it has become.
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Ugleb
Khumatari Holdings
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.11.23 20:25:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Christa Larne
Since when has it been the case that the news wires ever reported anything that did not increase their circulation? All of the reports listed above refer to a tiny minority on a single planet. There are thousands of inhabited planets in the Republic who are quite happy getting on with their lives. Unfortunately "nothing happening on ten thousand planets" or "twenty billion people did not turn out to oppose Midular" do not make for good headlines. That doesn't make them any less true.
As always you are taking isolated incidents and trying to apply them to the population as a whole without any evidence whatsoever to support them.
There have been many protests held across the Republic involving a great many people. They may not be the majority yet but they are growing and there numbers are not as trivial as you would like to think.
A great many people are angry and feel let down by their government, it is no creation of our imaginations, it is an unpleasant truth of our time.
I am growing increasingly weary of these constant claims that we are attempting to foster civil war. When I call upon the people to act I do not mean I want to see them killing each other or storming the gates of Parliament. If that was my intent I would have begun military action against the Republic nine months ago. I am a veteran pod pilot with the ability to command other capsuleers, we are an army that has been in a state of constant war for three years. If it was violence we wanted there would be no ambiguity, we have pursued enemies who gave us far less provocation than Midular did.
The simple fact that we have not gone down this path should be evidence enough that it is not civil war that we want, we simply want more to see new leadership worthy of the Republic's people. Wanting a politician out of office does not equate to a coup.
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Zastaver
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Posted - 2007.11.24 07:20:00 -
[26]
this reminds me of what iv done in Minmatar space when iI assisted VoM by using my rohks com arrays to relay several of there broadcasts. the RSS tried to make me disappear. that showed me how much a pod pilot can influence the masses for being one person so to say we have no say in politics is a utter lie. we just have a different voice. its not the voice of the pod pilot I'm worried about its the common man.
alas i cant help the common man as my contact in the VoM. i consider the republic my second home and i cant stand to see this happen to any one.
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Michael Bross
Minmatar
Masuat'aa Matari
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.11.24 07:54:00 -
[27]
Zastaver I salute you in your efforts to aid the peaceful demonstrations of the Voice of Matar. You are a true friend to the Matari people and I for one welcome you as a brother.
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Zastaver
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Posted - 2007.11.24 08:19:00 -
[28]
if the Voice of Matar or anyone seeking to have there voice heard through the vail of oppresion has just to ask. all i need to keep helping the VoM is a new contact as the RSS killed my last one. any way its nice to know i have good frends out side caldari
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Christa Larne
Minmatar
Matari Fleet Recon
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Posted - 2007.11.24 17:43:00 -
[29]
If the majority of the people decide that it is time for a new government, and they do so through peaceful means, then I for one will respect their choice. Because it is their choice to make. Encouraging them to do so through violence will just lead to more deaths because no government can give in to violence and threats.
Your demands are counterproductive. You insist on the very thing that is least likely to lead to democratic change.
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Join us and help make the Republic strong. |
Occasus Vim
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.11.24 19:03:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Christa Larne
If the majority of the people decide that it is time for a new government, and they do so through peaceful means, then I for one will respect their choice. Because it is their choice to make. Encouraging them to do so through violence will just lead to more deaths because no government can give in to violence and threats.
Your demands are counterproductive. You insist on the very thing that is least likely to lead to democratic change.
Whereas your suggestions are not productive at all - by which I mean, they will produce no results. They amount to "just go about your lives, everything will be alright". Things are not alright, and the biggest problem is that the citizens of the Republic cannot make an informed decision, because on the matters which are most important, Midular's government has been acting in the shadows.
Protests are a recourse for demanding that they have access to information that will help them make the right decision. If we cannot trust the people of the Republic to exercise their right to make those decisions, then 'Republic' is a misnomer.
Protests do not need to be violent, but they need to be happening. However, in the absence of other powers (economic, social, etc) violence seems the only method of creating pressure. If you would respect the informed decision of the public, then urge that they be given powers that allow them to be heard without resorting to violence. Knowledge, information is the beginning of such empowerment. As far as I can tell at this moment, you seem to be saying you would prefer if everyone would just be happy drawing hope from pure fiction. That is not our way, and not what your beloved Republic was founded upon.
I agree with your disdain for violent methods, but you must replace that power with something else if you are going to remove it from the picture, otherwise it will simply return as a matter of the desperation that arises from powerlessness.
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Christa Larne
Minmatar
Matari Fleet Recon
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Posted - 2007.11.27 13:04:00 -
[31]
A nice ideal but a very impractical one. On one hand we hear claims that we live in a time of war yet on the other hand we see people demanding that our government release information that could very easily benefit our enemies.
No sane government is going to lay out their strategy and plans in public. They may as well send a letter to their opponents entitled "this is how to beat us". And without an understanding of the strategy and plans any isolated releases of information would have no context within which to be understood, or worse they would allude to the plans, releasing them just as clearly.
No, in a time of conflict you either have to trust your leaders or not. That is a personal choice. What you cannot do is realistically expect them to risk everything they have worked for just because you are feeling all left out and confused.
Everyone has to trust in something bigger than themselves. We are not talking about ideals here but something concrete that gives you direction rather than leaving you to decide that direction for yourself. For some people their trust is in their CEO, or their alliance leadership, for others it lies in the Republic leadership. It is not a blind trust, merely a decision to walk a particular path until such time as events prove that your choice was right or wrong. A small number, an elite few, have the nerve to place their trust in themselves, to say "I know better than everyone else, I am right and you are wrong", to lead others and try to impose their political views on those around them. By doing so they accept the risk that if they are wrong then they will have damaged or destroyed the lives of those they have touched. Once I thought like that but then I recognised the danger of such arrogance and I decided to follow a different path. Now I merely state my views, I do not encourage people to follow them; instead I encourage them to follow something greater than each of us.
All life is risk. I prefer to risk on the side of the Republic rather than on the side of my own personal demons. But that is my choice, everyone must make their own. I respect the right of others to make those choices, it is a shame that not everyone is able to show that same respect.
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Join us and help make the Republic strong. |
Nachshon
Caldari
Gradient
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2007.11.27 16:10:00 -
[32]
As a citizen, I have the right to demand change in our government, just as anyone else does. I do accept the will of the majority, and I will fight for the Republic even if I oppose Midular politically.
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Caldari by birth, Minmatar by citizenship.
The True Meaning of Freedom |
Searaph
Minmatar United Freedom Front
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2007.11.27 20:33:00 -
[33]
You talk of your support for the Republic, Christa, but I dont think you support the Republic at all. You support the current leadership of the Republic. You have several times stated that the leadership should be trusted, and that they must know more than you and its alright for them to keep it that way, because they're working in our best interests.
That, quite simply, is the antithesis of democracy and republic. A democratic republic is NOT, and never was, about giving the leaders the benefit of the doubt. Its about people having access to their leaders and a say in what gets done. You want to trust in our leaders good intention? Perhaps its a Minmatar Empire we need then.
Its not just the right of any citizen of a democratic republic to question their government, and demand explanations, its their duty as citizens.
"The leadership must know more than me, so I'll support them". That is the sound of the death of Democracy.
There's also this idea that we should just shut up and accept our lot. To not call for change, because we dont have the right. Im torn on which of these two ideas are most anti democratic.
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Christa Larne
Minmatar
Matari Fleet Recon
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Posted - 2007.11.28 19:31:00 -
[34]
Seraph all I can say is that you either read the words and didn't understand them or that you never bothered to read my posts in the first place.
And as for your other point, the Minmatar Republic is a political entity represented by the current government. You can refer to the Minmatar People as distinct from the Republic but to try and separate the government from the Republic is a pointless distinction. Trying to say you support one without the other is the kind of trite justification I would expect from those who want to overthrow the current government by force but don't want to admit that doing so is technically treason.
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Join us and help make the Republic strong. |
Cybarite
Gallente
Aristotle Enterprises
Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2007.11.28 23:08:00 -
[35]
call it the current regime then, midular isn't an empress, though she certainly acts like one. it is any Matari's right to call for change, the whole point of having an elected leadership is the right to call them to task when they do something you don't like.
If a pod pilot opposes the actions of his or her government, he has every right to demand change, at least if he's gallente or matari he does. Our associates in the empire and the state seem to have other Ideas, for all the good it does them.
In the end a pod pilot is no different from any other celebrity or politician, we have every right to our opinions, and every right to defend them, weather you like it or not.
I'll leave the thinly veiled statist propaganda in your communique to the star fraction, they seem to like easy targets (honestly they seem to shoot at anything that moves or talks really).
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Why do I PvP? Because I love the feeling I get when I see the pretty lights and know that someone somewhere is screaming incoherently at their computer screen. |
zoolkhan
Minmatar
Freelance Unincorporated
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.11.29 16:26:00 -
[36]
Originally by: 3ll3
we look down on the normal planet and stationed bound individuals as things to be used and disposed of
speak for yourself.
i am fully aware of the consequencies that it has if my battleship breaks apart.
I bear a heavy burden, and i feel responsible even though my crew knew beforehands what they were facing. Some people wonder why i have a grumpy nature..
I also do know the difficulties of hiring a new crew after a major loss, and i thank
cizin for the technoogy of ermegency capsules.
All my ships have enough capsules to save the crew.
Only Doomsday devices and Smartbombs could kill the entire crew in one salvo, and i hope this will never happen to my crews.
despite that, they die for the cause - not because a god like pod pilot tells them so,
they do it because they want to participate in freeing their people
within their limits.
Theyre not disposal modules , and if you treat them as such - then you should be taken away your pod license.
my 2 cents.
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Searaph
Minmatar United Freedom Front
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2007.11.29 22:12:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Christa Larne
Seraph all I can say is that you either read the words and didn't understand them or that you never bothered to read my posts in the first place.
And as for your other point, the Minmatar Republic is a political entity represented by the current government. You can refer to the Minmatar People as distinct from the Republic but to try and separate the government from the Republic is a pointless distinction. Trying to say you support one without the other is the kind of trite justification I would expect from those who want to overthrow the current government by force but don't want to admit that doing so is technically treason.
I read every word you have written both here, and in the two threads about the assasination. Your point isnt remotely hard to "understand".
To summarise:
You believe that pod pilots shouldnt be part of the democratic process because we're rich and powerful (placing limits on democracy).
You believe the government is better informed than the rest of us and therefore we should assume they are acting in our best interests (allowing the government to do as they wish in the name of the "greater good" without question is contrary to the idea of a democratic republic).
Additionally, you believe the current government and the Republic itself are exactly the same thing, and that anyone who says different is trying to violently over throw the current government, and is therefore guilty of treason (dissenters are criminals).
The reason I find this group of ideas easy to understand is because they've been around for thousands of years, and they have a name. This particular brand of ultra-nationalism is called "fascism". Perhaps you've heard of it. I dont say that to insult you (though I certainly dont mean it as a compliment), its simply the name given to your particular set of political views.
And as to the "trite" distinction between government and the republic its supposed to serve, by your rationale, anyone who voted against the current government come reelection time is a traitor, since they oppose the current government and therefore the Minmatar Republic. Perhaps the distinction isnt so "trite" after all.
Lastly, just to give you an idea of how valuable the concept of "treason" is when people start tossing it around at people they disagree with... To the Amarrian Empire, we are all guilty of treason for forging our own little state. That should give you some idea what I think about tossing the word "treason" around at people you dont agree with.
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Nachshon
Caldari
Gradient
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2007.11.30 05:39:00 -
[38]
It is not treason to oppose the current administration, certainly not if one's motivations are political alone. I don't support a violent overthrow of Midular - I believe she should resign and allow a stronger leader to take her place.
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Caldari by birth, Minmatar by citizenship.
The True Meaning of Freedom |
Jacinda Molanth
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Posted - 2007.12.03 14:51:00 -
[39]
What people need to realize, and I have seen a blurring of thought here, is there is a profound difference between The Minmatar Republic and those running it within the Parliament. The Parliament constitutes the existing elected government. The Republic is a set of laws, rules and ideals that the government is supposed to support. One can be against the government and for the Republic if they feel the government has become corrupted or acting against the fabric of the Republic.
I believe this is the case of the Ushra'Khan. They have become disillusioned with the path of our current government decisions. This does not mean they would not be the first in line to defend the Republic from foreign invasion.
I for one have also begun to question the validity and purpose of many of the recent decisions of our government such as sanctioned executions without due course of law as well as the newest threat of legalized buying and selling of slaves. This does not mean I am against the Republic, in fact it shows my love of the Republic in that I care enough to vocalize my concerns.
Jacinda Molanth
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Kabajashi San
Minmatar
Thrace Inc
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.12.03 22:51:00 -
[40]
Good point, Mrs. Molanth, but I would go even further. I would say you can even be against the Republic but in support of the people living therein. I fight for my tribe, my brothers, my clan. I don't fight for a set of rules that the Gallente gave us and that we accepted in return for their aid against the Amarr.
Others may disagree, even among my comrades.
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Ecte
Gallente
Tweek 'n' Co
Sev3rance
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Posted - 2007.12.05 01:47:00 -
[41]
Disclaimer: The following is merely my own opinions, and not necessarily those of my corporation.
I am Gallente born, Caldari trained and am currently assisting an Amarrian alliance, yet my loyalties extend only to my corp-mates. I fight whom I am told to fight, yet beyond the adrenaline and aggression that I show to my foes I do not begrudge them their political beliefs, nor hate the people they represent.
Collectively, we are a powerful force, though our numbers are few. Together, we hold as much wealth, if not more, than one of the Empires. However, it is of my opinion that our concerns, while similar to our land based brethren, do not directly overlap. As has been previously commented, beyond our families and friends still living under an Empire's direct day-to-day control any changes we produce with our wars and conflicts (which would be minor at best, most likely) affect us little.
We are a microcosm of the Empires - we should be working towards a greater peace up here among the stars instead of fighting over our political beliefs.
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All rulers in all ages have tried to impose a false view of the world upon their followers. |
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