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Silverado19
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Posted - 2004.03.05 09:25:00 -
[1]
I dont usually post on the forumns, but recently I have gotten a little bit bothered. Seems to me that CCP has total dis-regard for any type of freedom of speech. Anyone that has either a disenting opinion, a topic that CCP deems an exploit, or any other type of discussion that CCP randomly decides is not worthy....they immediately lock the thread. HUH?...you've got to be kidding me!!!!
These forumns belong to the players of EVE (who pay for the game btw)and should not be subject to the censorship of CCP.
I am not saying that they shouldn't get rid of posts that use foul language,I feel there is no place for that.But it seems to me that anytime some sub-level intelligent person wants to post a "troll"....let him....others sometimes like it. If a player decides he doesn't like it, he doesn't have to read it.Simple as that.
WHO ARE YOU CCP TO DECIDE WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE GAME CONVERSATION?
As long as it's in-game conversation and sticks to the inner ideosyncrasies of EVE, it should not subject to CCP's "approval". This smells of censorship at it's worst and I for one feel that sucks.
In real life I am quite sure that anyone playing this game does not have to live in a third world country with a thug dictator. So why should we have to put up with it here in our alternate reality.
I would like to feedback from all citizens of EVE on this topic. CCP.....you are not invited to reply.
And btw....eris discordia...you are the worst.
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Psy Corp
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Posted - 2004.03.05 09:31:00 -
[2]
in befor lock.. weii
I Have The Power Of The Mighty Lo.0lipop..
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Haxar
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Posted - 2004.03.05 09:37:00 -
[3]
Well, there are Forum Rules. You will find such rules in every MMO(R)PG or forum. You go with them or you keep out.
And besides that the forum belongs to CCP and not the players.
PS: in, before the lock. 
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Raffer Bip
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Posted - 2004.03.05 09:38:00 -
[4]
Trouble with "freedom of speach" is that a lot of people think they can say what they want.  This is not true in RL or in the Eve universe. I for one am happy that CCP moderates with a heavy hand.
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Silverado19
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Posted - 2004.03.05 09:44:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Silverado19 on 05/03/2004 09:48:26
Edited by: Silverado19 on 05/03/2004 09:48:09
First of all raffer....learn to spell. Second,it is true in real life. You just don't have the fortitude to stand up and speak your mind regardless of what others think. This makes you weak and spineless.
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Brumpta
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Posted - 2004.03.05 10:17:00 -
[6]
I like the fact that the forums are moderated well, though sometimes I do get frustrated when what appears to be an interesting post is locked for no apparent reason
I have seen a few other mmorpg community sites (which really this is albeit one owned by CCP) where they have one forum specifically setup to be a non-moderated forum (normally called 'Rants n Raves' or 'Anything Goes), perhaps thatÆs what we need.
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Krunchus eXus
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Posted - 2004.03.05 10:23:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Krunchus eXus on 05/03/2004 10:24:39
Edited by: Krunchus eXus on 05/03/2004 10:24:13
One would assume that the purpose of your post was to try and lobby support in an attempt to dispatch of the 'iron fist' of CCP.
Well, great way to go about it. Soo .. one would assume that your only reason for wanting a more open forum is so that you can go around abusing people!
No? Well try not to give off that opinion by assaulting the first person that doesn't spell to your liking.
And why don't you want CCP to reply? Perhaps you're afraid they might make some sense!?
As for the point of your post, yes I totally agree that there is too heavy a hand in thread locking. I've read the forum rules, and the locking does NOT abide by these rules. If I must I'll dig an example out of the locking of posts regarding the GMs and the Yulai incident.
However, the over the top locking does assist in keep the forums relatively mature and free of personal attacks. It's a trade off, and one that can just about be accepted.
It's reassuring to know that CCP have a watchful eye over the forums and the chance of some fool attacking someone else for not being able to spell is low 
[edit: Couldn't have you picking on my spelling...]
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Gem Arkoniansdottir
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Posted - 2004.03.05 10:35:00 -
[8]
First of all, there are no freedom of speech anywhere in the world..
When it comes to CCP's ban on talk on bans and exploits, it's easy understandable. If 50 people know an exploit only 5 are dumb enough to use it... it 5000 people know it, more people will use it...
The game have diffrent areas, and the high secure areas are supposed to BE secure. All the players know this. I heared back in 2002, WAY before the game was releasd that the CCP whould take a role more like 'gods' to make sure the big alliances and best players couldn't make life misserable for the new players.
Telling people ways to bend, break or ridicule these rules, are not stuff that should be on this board.
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Krunchus eXus
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Posted - 2004.03.05 10:35:00 -
[9]
Yet there's more .. and it's not been locked yet ... I'm going to put this in because it's a perfect example of what we speak ...
 Quote:
First off i¦d like to say i hate "bad" exploiters
But exploits are so common say the mining in 0.0
in order to mine there u basicly have to outwit the npc
From Odin Hammer's "exploit when is it a crime?". This thread was locked by Lomithrandra pretty much immediately with the message "Do not post about bugs and exploits."
Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but Odin was simply asking a question about dealing with them ... not actually discussing them. IMHO I think that Lomithrnadra was *unjust* in cutting this thread off. I mean no offence.
It's my opinion, and I shall talk about it no more as I'd rather be playing EVE than talking about it ;)
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Haxar
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Posted - 2004.03.05 10:47:00 -
[10]
Quote:
[...]From Odin Hammer's "exploit when is it a crime?". This thread was locked by Lomithrandra pretty much immediately with the message "Do not post about bugs and exploits."
Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but Odin was simply asking a question about dealing with them ... not actually discussing them. IMHO I think that Lomithrnadra was *unjust* in cutting this thread off. I mean no offence.
It's my opinion, and I shall talk about it no more as I'd rather be playing EVE than talking about it ;)
Well it would be a discussion about exploits and as the Forum rules say Do not post about bugs and exploits. i do not see any reason why it doesn't should have been locked. (He even gave one as an example)
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Kurenin
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Posted - 2004.03.05 10:55:00 -
[11]
Quote:
Yet there's more .. and it's not been locked yet ... I'm going to put this in because it's a perfect example of what we speak ...
Quote:
First off i¦d like to say i hate "bad" exploiters
But exploits are so common say the mining in 0.0
in order to mine there u basicly have to outwit the npc
From Odin Hammer's "exploit when is it a crime?". This thread was locked by Lomithrandra pretty much immediately with the message "Do not post about bugs and exploits."
Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but Odin was simply asking a question about dealing with them ... not actually discussing them. IMHO I think that Lomithrnadra was *unjust* in cutting this thread off. I mean no offence.
It's my opinion, and I shall talk about it no more as I'd rather be playing EVE than talking about it ;)
Email [email protected] if you have complaints about moderation.
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[22:02] <Kurenin> anyhow, on a more serious note, what did you think of those ideas?
[22:02] <Hammerhead> we can't do anything that requires programming
Inactivity wins you. |
Raffer Bip
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Posted - 2004.03.05 11:06:00 -
[12]
I must apologise for my bad spelling. Unfortunatly as a Norwegian I obviously did not pay enough attention in English class.
silverado19 you asked for feedback. I gave my opinion and was personally attacked for it.
This shows (i would say illustrate but I cant spell it) the difference between free speech and saying what you want.
Although your spelling and grammer is probably perfect Silverado19, Your understanding of human interaction seems to be somewhat lacking. This, I think is why you cannot understand why the forums are moderated.
I wish you luck in your quest to unmoderate the forums.
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Vigo Barboza
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Posted - 2004.03.05 11:49:00 -
[13]
I'm totally with you Raffer....
Silverado19 with your immature attempt at bullying someone who had a differing opinon to your own you have killed your own argument with beautiful irony.
In addition, THESE forums do not belong to the players of Eve. They belong to CCP, who along with their investors have a right to protect their users confidance in their product. Particularly since a lot of their users are prone to be a little over emotional in their rhetoric.
My advice - go set up your own forums and have all the freedom of speach you want.
Have a nice day.
Recruitment
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syndic4te
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Posted - 2004.03.05 11:54:00 -
[14]
Quote:
I'm totally with you Raffer....
Silverado19 with your immature attempt at bullying someone who had a differing opinon to your own you have killed your own argument with beautiful irony.
In addition, THESE forums do not belong to the players of Eve. They belong to CCP, who along with their investors have a right to protect their users confidance in their product. Particularly since a lot of their users are prone to be a little over emotional in their rhetoric.
My advice - go set up your own forums and have all the freedom of speach you want.
Have a nice day.
immatue? i think he just wants to state that any ideas that regard EVE should be posted freely, wuts so immature about that?
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Vigo Barboza
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Posted - 2004.03.05 11:58:00 -
[15]
Quote:
immatue? i think he just wants to state that any ideas that regard EVE should be posted freely, wuts so immature about that?
I was talking about this:
Quote:
First of all raffer....learn to spell. Second,it is true in real life. You just don't have the fortitude to stand up and speak your mind regardless of what others think. This makes you weak and spineless.
Respectfully suggest you read the whole thread before posting.
Recruitment
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syndic4te
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Posted - 2004.03.05 11:59:00 -
[16]
hes not being immature, hes stating a fact. foo cant spell
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Siddy
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Posted - 2004.03.05 12:00:00 -
[17]
in before mighty *click*
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three
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Posted - 2004.03.05 12:02:00 -
[18]
I fully agree that these forums "should" be moderated ..
I do however feel that CCP at times over steps it mark and has "biased" view in regards to what threads are locked and removed ......
I also feel that the area in which CCP has a total lack of customer understanding by banning people from "their" forums without having the common decency to inform the individual "how" or "why" their post infringes on the forum rules.
snip
After all, forum moderators make mistakes and on these occasions the forum users should be able to "challenge" their decision and bring the matter to forum supervisors.
In every basket .... there are always a few rotten apples ........
Please do not post private communication from the the forum mods, its agianst our forum rules -Eris Discordia
National Anthem |
Haratu
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Posted - 2004.03.05 12:05:00 -
[19]
Free-speech is a joke... In reality free-speech does not exist anywhere.
(If you think it exists in the US then why was the communist party closed down in the 1950s? They were not free to speak. In other 1st world countries, there is pressure on christianity not to evangelise and in the stockmarket there is opposition to minor shareholders having any say)
I roleplay... there is this computer game called "Earth - The First Genesis" where i play a character in the early 21st century. |
Vigo Barboza
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Posted - 2004.03.05 12:09:00 -
[20]
Quote:
hes not being immature, hes stating a fact. foo cant spell
*Yawn* - bored of you. Ok i'll lead you through it by hand.
Quote:
This makes you weak and spineless.
This immature attack was the main flaw in his argument.
Recruitment
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Trianon Starstealer
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Posted - 2004.03.05 12:22:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Trianon Starstealer on 05/03/2004 12:23:27
Free speach is one thing, but it cuts both ways, if you say somethign someone doenst like you have to accept that their response may not fit in with your idea's.
As for CCP being overzealous....... that's an understatement, their policy is to try and hide most critism and keep it private, often the reason people are posting publicly is because of CCP's inability to handle complaints and their outright refusal to acknowledge flaws in the game that have caused loss when people have complained privately (and I realise some of those complaints may actually be invalid).
That said, despite CCP's best efforts to disuade people from playing with their apalling service, Eve is a great game and hopefully will continue to be so.
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Krunchus eXus
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Posted - 2004.03.05 12:58:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Krunchus eXus on 05/03/2004 13:03:42
Quote:
Quote:
[...]From Odin Hammer's "exploit when is it a crime?". This thread was locked by Lomithrandra pretty much immediately with the message "Do not post about bugs and exploits."
Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but Odin was simply asking a question about dealing with them ... not actually discussing them. IMHO I think that Lomithrnadra was *unjust* in cutting this thread off. I mean no offence.
It's my opinion, and I shall talk about it no more as I'd rather be playing EVE than talking about it ;)
Well it would be a discussion about exploits and as the Forum rules say Do not post about bugs and exploits. i do not see any reason why it doesn't should have been locked. (He even gave one as an example)
No, he did not give one as an example, he hinted at one for the purpose of justifying his question, he gave no details - and I for one, have no clue what exploit he's on about! I didn't include the entire posting in here, I gave the poster and thread name which should suffice.
As I said, I am no longer going to comment on the moderation of the forum. I just thought I'd explain my reasoning.
[Edit:]
Quote:
11. Do not post about bugs and exploits.
Bugs and exploits should be reported through the proper method by filing a report for our Quality Assurance department. You can find the form here: http://myeve.eve-online.com/bugreporting.asp. Discussions about unverified problems in the game can cause unnecessary panic in the community. When there is an issue the community needs to be aware of, we will make an official statement about it.
This clearly states that the users are not to post information regarding exploits, not ask questions about how they are handled.
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NightProwler
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Posted - 2004.03.05 13:09:00 -
[23]
This (Eve) is CCP's game. This site is owned and run by CCP.
They can do whatever the hell they like with it.
If you want a no holds barred forum then go make one.
I would really love to see it from your point of view,but I can't get my head that far up my own arse |
Eris Discordia
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Posted - 2004.03.05 13:10:00 -
[24]
The moderators you see on the forums are not CCP, we are volunteers. We do our best to keep the forums in accordance with the Forum Rules.
However, if you have questions or concerns about moderation you can mail us at [email protected]
You are free to argue for a thread to be unlocked with us in private, but not on the forums since its a discussion about moderation.
If you have any helpful ideas about the game itself you can voice them here.
For other questions about in-game issues you can mail
support@eve-online
note: this topic will be locked for discussing moderation, eventhough the topic suggests its about CCP
I ♥ my pink dreadnought of pwnage
Mail [email protected] if you have any questions. |
Haxar
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Posted - 2004.03.05 13:14:00 -
[25]
Quote:
[snipped the most part]
No, he did not give one as an example, he hinted at one for the purpose of justifying his question, he gave no details - and I for one, have no clue what exploit he's on about! I didn't include the entire posting in here, I gave the poster and thread name which should suffice.
Yeh, hinted at one. He gave ideas about a possible one. If he kept out any details even if they were more/less loose and just asked "how exploits get handled" it wouldn't be locked, pretty sure I am. Besides that I am pretty sure all know how exploits get handled by MMO(R)PG vendors, keep them away from as much players as possible (aka allowing no hinting, no mentioning and no telling), track down players who use the exploits till it got fixed. Some exploits you just cannot fix in just 2 months.
[snipped the rest]
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William Tanner
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Posted - 2004.03.05 13:17:00 -
[26]
Not sure if you are still monitoring the thread Silverado19, but I will toss in my two cetns just the same. CCP is a company, not a government agency. They do not have to protect 'free' speech. The boards are maintained and monitored using the funds they receive through your gaming subscription. As a part of that subscription you have to explicitly agree to the terms of service. No where in that contract does it guarantee you the right to say whatever you want. If you read the forum rules and the rules and policies for Eve, you will not find a guarantee of your right to 'free' speech. In fact, your subscribing implicitly implies that you support these rules.
CCP carefully monitors what they feel is appropriate behaviour to protect their interests. While I may not personally agree with some of their practices, I submit that they are well within their rights to do so as it doesn't make good business sense to do otherwise. (I am avoiding specifics to prevent topic lock.)
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