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Demitri Klashnikov
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Posted - 2004.03.05 14:46:00 -
[1]
I have had no problem selling Tech II components at 25k for the basic stuff, 50k for the proccesors and 75k for the Reactor units.
At these prices the buyer still makes a healthy profit, or they wouldn't have bought millions of ISK worth allready from me.
If you sell your stuff at 10k per unit, your being ripped off
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Lurk
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Posted - 2004.03.05 15:41:00 -
[2]
Considering that a BYOM x2 deal is common it would make sense to set the value of the components to something near double the mineral value.
Which is, as far as i know 10-30k.
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Ronyo Dae'Loki
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Posted - 2004.03.05 15:57:00 -
[3]
Actually, if you sell your stuff for too high, you're ripping the big corps off.
Why is that bad? It means that tech II items will be even more expensive for everyone, yes, including you.
I understand the desire to make money, but don't be so greedy it hurts everyone else's wallets.
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My salsa makes all the pretty girls want to dance and take off their underpants.
I <3 ( . Y . ) |
Duncan
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Posted - 2004.03.05 16:03:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Duncan on 05/03/2004 16:07:08
Selling at these prices is possible, but please take into account that if components get ridiculously expensive so will end products. You have to factor in price of components plus minerals, plus time for gathering such components, and suddenly 5-10 mil for a single tech2 module isn’t a rip off after all. Has more and more t2 blueprints come into the game, the demand for components also grows exponentially. It is thus quite possible that you will see a price increase instead of a decrease has time goes by.
Only a stupid manufacturers will keep underbidding a competitor in the t2 market, better make a deal with your competitors and assure yourself of a long term profit than getting into a price war and driving the prices down the drain.
This is my own opinion of course.
Edit: seems i took too long to write my reply and Ronyo made the point i wanted 
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2004.03.05 16:24:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Morkt Drak on 05/03/2004 16:26:17
 Quote:
I have had no problem selling Tech II components at 25k for the basic stuff, 50k for the proccesors and 75k for the Reactor units.
Yeah - and Im the Amarri Emperor. 
In reality what you are doing, at best, is selling a tiny volume of KEY components to a single manufacturer of Interceptors.
Its hardly a basis for pan-galactic pricing... nor is it a good reference to the complete list of T2Cs.
Show us some dedicated transaction logs with thousands of T2C components sold at those prices and you will have proven your case though. Somehow I doubt you can do so... but Im happy for you to prove me wrong. 
Edit: We arent buying Components anymore so its of no value/loss to us either way. Just thought I'd add that before the crows start flapping.
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FunGuy
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Posted - 2004.03.05 16:50:00 -
[6]
Edited by: FunGuy on 05/03/2004 19:57:20
Quote:
I have had no problem selling Tech II components at 25k for the basic stuff, 50k for the proccesors and 75k for the Reactor units.
Well congratulations on selling higher than market value, where does it stop though, should miners sell minerals at a higher price? should I get my battleship sales department to sell them at 200mil because I'm not making enough profit from them? (it is tempting :-P)
The componant market is fluxuating, there is still a very low number of BP's out, It will settle down but asking everyone to bump the prices artificially wouldn't help that, let it find its own place.
FunGuy
Proud to be Xanadu
Xanadu T2 BP's
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RealTime
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Posted - 2004.03.05 17:21:00 -
[7]
Quote:
I have had no problem selling Tech II components at 25k for the basic stuff, 50k for the proccesors and 75k for the Reactor units.
Are you selling t2 co proccessors for 50k?
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Aldelphius
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Posted - 2004.03.05 20:27:00 -
[8]
Quote:
I have had no problem selling Tech II components at 25k for the basic stuff, 50k for the proccesors and 75k for the Reactor units.
At these prices the buyer still makes a healthy profit, or they wouldn't have bought millions of ISK worth allready from me.
If you sell your stuff at 10k per unit, your being ripped off
well, then I hope you never want any t2 ships, because with your pricing, there never going to be for sale. a corp can pay any price it wants if its not going to sell them. But manufactures could not build them to sell.
The people are either insanely rich, or they dont ever plan on selling them. you will allways find a buyer at any price, its just the volume thats gonna be small. high price, low volume or low price, high volume. The goal is the balance that maximizes profit per item. but atm we dont have the nessecary data to calculate it out afaik.
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Demitri Klashnikov
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Posted - 2004.03.06 10:03:00 -
[9]
Well whatever the nay sayers preach I am still selling all I can get at the above prices. I also know a profit can be made by purchasing at these price (my buyers make a healthy mark up on product)
My post was in no way an atempt to increase prices (im selling all I can get0, just a heads up to the players sellng the items for little more than recycle value, would you sell your rare rat drop loot for 2x recyle value?
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Judicator
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Posted - 2004.03.06 12:27:00 -
[10]
Call me crazy but I sell my tech 2 @ refine +25% overhead. So far everything I have placed on the market has been sold pretty quickly.
I do most of my business that way. I would rather make a smaller profit and sell more than make a huge profit every once in awhile.
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Luther Pendragon
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Posted - 2004.03.06 12:50:00 -
[11]
Quote:
Call me crazy but I sell my tech 2 @ refine +25% overhead. So far everything I have placed on the market has been sold pretty quickly.
I do most of my business that way. I would rather make a smaller profit and sell more than make a huge profit every once in awhile.
Wouldnt care to posting the list of your prices would you? And where you are selling them? 
____________________________________
Taggart wants YOU. Join TTi!
*waves his hand in your face in the jedi way* |
Demitri Klashnikov
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Posted - 2004.03.06 12:52:00 -
[12]
/\ 
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Luther Pendragon
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Posted - 2004.03.06 12:54:00 -
[13]
what? 
____________________________________
Taggart wants YOU. Join TTi!
*waves his hand in your face in the jedi way* |
Demitri Klashnikov
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Posted - 2004.03.06 13:00:00 -
[14]
Exacttly what I was talking about, thats all at those prices (refine) a corp like TTi would make huge proffits.
I expect a rebuttal about missions being money for free, but having flown many many missions, to get these components, to sell at recycle you may as well go strip mine some scordite
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2004.03.06 14:07:00 -
[15]
Quote:
Exacttly what I was talking about, thats all at those prices (refine) a corp like TTi would make huge proffits.
I expect a rebuttal about missions being money for free, but having flown many many missions, to get these components, to sell at recycle you may as well go strip mine some scordite
Fusion reactor unit
64 iso / 20 nox | 9216 isk base value
And you are selling at 75k and complaining about T2 manufaturers having big markups?
lmao.
PS - Please post where you can BUY reactors for 75k each and then get a "decent profit" from selling them on... i would really love to see these mythical buyers.
You do know that they got rid of the high mineral content in these components for precisely the reason that there was too much money in recycling them and their intrinsic value was thus far too high?
Smacks of little more than trying to bump up prices, afterall youve still not shown us alll these consistent highpriced sales you are claiming to ahve made.
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2004.03.06 14:11:00 -
[16]
PS: Recycle values of T2 Components
Please note that that is NOT any guide to pricing, its just a list of the current NPC value by mineral content.
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Demitri Klashnikov
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Posted - 2004.03.06 14:24:00 -
[17]
Morkt, I understand you are caldari...but for the love of God
The mineral content has ZERO to do with the value nothing, Nada , Zip.
If you applied that to everything how much should I sell my Quad liffs for? what about my Local Hull Expanders?
Perhaps you want me to sell my Implants to for the mineral content?
And Papa said himself the components would be worth 4 times the pre nurf mineral cost, that was Papa not me.
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2004.03.06 14:54:00 -
[18]
He also said the maximum value of any single T2 component reward would be 500k.. thus making his value of ion thrusters (for example) 5000 isk. (according to you they should about 40k).
Also the mineral value sets the minimal value always - you cant just ignore it.. applies to every single thing that can be recycled, irrespective of their costs on the market - NOTE: minimal, I didn't see me suggesting you should sell @ minerla value so why the theatrics?
Furthermore if you wish any sane person to beleive there is a consistent and large scale market for t2 components @75k then show us some evidence... because as BUYERS the rest of us know thats total xrap.
Bascically - the buyers set the price, and nobody is buying in any sizeable volume at the prices you suggest,they cant, they wouldn't make any money, they ARE buying in BULK @10k though and people are selling in bluk at those prices.
All you are doing is trying to bump the value of T2 components from spurious imaginary sales figures and out of date remarks.
Until I see some actual evidence I simply dont believe a word of your magical-mystery volume sales.
Of course Im more than willing to sell YOU tens of thousands of items @75k for you to resell for profit as you seem so confident you can do so.
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Demitri Klashnikov
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Posted - 2004.03.06 15:08:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Demitri Klashnikov on 06/03/2004 15:10:26
No, I only said I have been selling the Rector units at 75k
I put my microprossers on the market at 25k and they sold with in hours.
And I believe the 500k is the isk value, unless you want my Memory implant for 500k as well Morkt? how anout the shirt off my back, or perhaps the hood off my head!
And the Apoc I am flying the implants in my head and the millions in the bank are proof enough for me of the value
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2004.03.06 15:20:00 -
[20]
Quote:
Edited by: Demitri Klashnikov on 06/03/2004 15:10:26
No, I only said I have been selling the Rector units at 75k
I put my microprossers on the market at 25k and they sold with in hours.
And I believe the 500k is the isk value, unless you want my Memory implant for 500k as well Morkt? how anout the shirt off my back, or perhaps the hood off my head!
And the Apoc I am flying the implants in my head and the millions in the bank are proof enough for me of the value
As i clearly stated: You probalby cans ell the odd tiny order to individual interceptor buyers. But you still havent produced a single scrap of evidence to show there is a widespread market buying in T2Cs at anything like those prices.
Over this week 4 billion isk of T2C orders were put out and the average buy price was under 10k isk.
SHow me some multi-region bulk buyers at 25k-75k and I will beleive you, but seeing as you cant, because I know there arent any, stop trying to make out a miniscule single sale as a pan-galactic guarenteed price.
It sint. You know it, I know it - there are no widespread multi-thousand buy order at those prices.
Even Xanadus recent buy-in (the best prices offered by anybody too date in bulk) was at an average value of 15k. And they bought out 2 billion isk owrht. DUring last week another 2 billion isk worth were bought in by others at an average of 10k isk - and ALL of those buy orders were filled with people selling at or under 10k.
Those are tangible facts.. as are the simple economics of T2C viability at certain prices.
"One" doesnt sell half a hundred T2Cs @ 75k and then claim a pan-galactic conspiracy against sellers... its not even vaguely realistic.
NB: this is an ongoing and lengthy discussion on prices on the missions forum, which is far more suited to this discussion than this forum (And has alrgely run its course there also) - Can the MODS move this to missions pls?
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Demitri Klashnikov
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Posted - 2004.03.06 15:32:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Demitri Klashnikov on 06/03/2004 15:34:00
double post
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Demitri Klashnikov
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Posted - 2004.03.06 15:32:00 -
[22]
your ego is legendry, you now think you own the boards. get a clue lad
This is a Market related thread, not every thread has to start WTS/WTB
Quote:
Market Share stock tips or get the inside scoop on trading.
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2004.03.06 16:11:00 -
[23]
Quote:
your ego is legendry, you now think you own the boards. get a clue lad
/me shrugs
Well, its only to save typing the same thing in 5 different threads over 3 or more forums. Thanks for the "lad" though, at my age its nice to be called that.
Either way it doesn't change the simple fact that you still don't have squat in the way of 'evidence' and everything Ive said is accurate and verifiable.
Pretty much ends the discussion now that you've descended into abuse and failed to show anything evidentially. Says it all really.
(We can sell you a clue for 2 billion isk btw - on escrow at Nonni)
ttfn
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Demitri Klashnikov
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Posted - 2004.03.06 16:22:00 -
[24]
Quote:
Quote:
your ego is legendry, you now think you own the boards. get a clue lad
Pretty much ends the discussion now that you've descended into abuse and failed to show anything evidentially. Says it all really.
Abuse?
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Ronyo Dae'Loki
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Posted - 2004.03.06 16:44:00 -
[25]
Demitri, sorry, but you apparently just don't understand basic economics.
Sure, you can sell a few at, for example, 75k, but if you priced them at a more reasonable 15k, you'd sell a lot more, thus making more money.
At this point you're acting like you've been cornered. If I were you I'd drop it. Keep selling at whatever price you want, but you're not making yourself look good now but continuing to post in this thread. Drop the issue and preserve what dignity you can.
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My salsa makes all the pretty girls want to dance and take off their underpants.
I <3 ( . Y . ) |
Sabahl
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Posted - 2004.03.06 16:44:00 -
[26]
Let me start it up again.
There are certain components which are used to make extreme-high demand tech 2 items other than ships. The four types of processors spring to mind, as they are used to make the low slot weapon enhancers. For the amount of materials it takes to make a single interceptor, with a market value of 6-7 mil, it would be entiirely feasible to create a hangar full of other tech 2 components with a market value of over fifty mil ISK. And a hell of a lot more people want and can use the modules than the ships. The imballance in tech 2 component prices is being driven by the tech 2 module creation business, not the interceptor manufacturers, and it doesn't take a genius to work this out. It is, in fact, the reason why we sold on our Stiletto BP. While it's a great little ship the future economics of large-scale manufacture were pretty dire.
This is something that is not going to be solved overnight unless the material requirements for interceptors is drastically altered. It will require a fair bit of attention to sort out and so I'm not expecting it to be done in the near future, if at all.
Until this happens, though, the price for various components such as the processors and the reactors will, indeed, be a hell of a lot higher than the mineral costs, in the same way that refining a local hull conversion cargo expander doesn't quite give the same value as if you were to sell it on the open market. Sad, but true.
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Demitri Klashnikov
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Posted - 2004.03.06 17:28:00 -
[27]
Quote:
Demitri, sorry, but you apparently just don't understand basic economics.
Sure, you can sell a few at, for example, 75k, but if you priced them at a more reasonable 15k, you'd sell a lot more, thus making more money.
At this point you're acting like you've been cornered. If I were you I'd drop it. Keep selling at whatever price you want, but you're not making yourself look good now but continuing to post in this thread. Drop the issue and preserve what dignity you can.
So your understanding of economics is that I would have made more isk selling at 15K than the 25k that I sold them at?
I think I prefer my understanding, thankyou.
I dont think I would be flying an Apoc it that were true
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Mikka Mackern
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Posted - 2004.03.06 18:30:00 -
[28]
So - according to Dimitri anybody who doesnt pay 25k or more for components is ripping people off.
And that's why DImitri is, on the same forum, ripping off Gella by only offering her 15k and not telling her she should be asking for at least 25k?
I guess your ideology doesnt stretch beyond simply helping yourself whilst being a total hypocrit?
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Demitri Klashnikov
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Posted - 2004.03.06 18:31:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Demitri Klashnikov on 06/03/2004 18:32:55
would you like a mat so you don't hurt your knees?
I said paying under 10k was a rip off not 25 and I am paying 5k more than your outfit.
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Mikka Mackern
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Posted - 2004.03.06 18:34:00 -
[30]
Not if you're selling them... would cost too much.
It's a throw-away item afterall, a bit like your reputation for business.
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Demitri Klashnikov
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Posted - 2004.03.06 18:36:00 -
[31]
you wouldnt know, you nothing about me or my business, except what i've told you
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Mikka Mackern
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Posted - 2004.03.06 18:38:00 -
[32]
Quote:
Agent runners stop being ripped off by mega corps
Agent runners stop being ripped off by Dimitri.. its all anybody has to know. You come here blowing your own trumpet and about how others are ripping people off and then go and do the same thing.
like er DUH!
And then, to cap it all off, you "prove" your skill at business by saying "I fly an Apocalypse".
My god - Man! Your UNIQUE!
Nobody else can reach such staggeringheights of wealth and success as to own an Apocalypse!
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Demitri Klashnikov
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Posted - 2004.03.06 18:42:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Demitri Klashnikov on 06/03/2004 18:45:32
Quote:
I have had no problem selling Tech II components at 25k for the basic stuff, 50k for the proccesors and 75k for the Reactor units.
At these prices the buyer still makes a healthy profit, or they wouldn't have bought millions of ISK worth allready from me.
If you sell your stuff at 10k per unit, your being ripped off
As all can see I said if you sell at 10k, I am offering 15k.
Its also occured to me I don't really care what you think, I have sold all my T2 components, I was just advising those that havnt yet sold theres.
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Demitri Klashnikov
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Posted - 2004.03.06 18:44:00 -
[34]
Quote:
Quote:
Agent runners stop being ripped off by mega corps
Agent runners stop being ripped off by Dimitri.. its all anybody has to know. You come here blowing your own trumpet and about how others are ripping people off and then go and do the same thing.
like er DUH!
And then, to cap it all off, you "prove" your skill at business by saying "I fly an Apocalypse".
My god - Man! Your UNIQUE!
Nobody else can reach such staggeringheights of wealth and success as to own an Apocalypse!
So naturally if im ripping people off at 15k BBBB is doing what at the 7k they offer?
I have done nothing contry to what i have stated, unlike you and your outfit
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Mikka Mackern
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Posted - 2004.03.06 19:22:00 -
[35]
Quote:
So naturally if im ripping people off at 15k BBBB is doing what at the 7k they offer?
I have done nothing contry to what i have stated, unlike you and your outfit
We aren't offering anything sunshine. Seems you've got your facts wrong yet again.
Oops - sorry, forgot! You don't have any facts so that can't be right.
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Fletcher Jones
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Posted - 2004.03.06 19:39:00 -
[36]
Given that some Components aren't even needed at all (ie there aren't any blueprints that require those components) and also given that the same component can be used in more than one item...
Its fairly obvious to me that there will not be one single price.
A ship that sells for 7 million ISK has far more room for paying higher component costs than a module that sells for 300k ISK.
As such you are always going to see a range of prices. Anybody who gives a flat value to a component is simply showing their ignorance of Tech II requirements:
You simply can not say X component is worth X ISK... its entirely dependent on what the end user is manufacturing and how many of those they can make.
If somebody is making modules to the tune of 100 a day, requiring 300 components a day and selling the end item for 300k, then the components wont be worth more than a few thousand isk to the builder.
If somebody ismaking 2 or 3 Interceptors a day (max) then whilst they may be able to pay 25k or even 75k for them, they wont need many, wont use many and thus there wont be much of a demand for many.
Once again - this means you simply can not say X component is worth Xisk and then say anybody who is offering different is wrong.
Whether they are offering less isk or more isk is irrelevant without knowing what they are using the components for (ie what they are building).
This entire thread, and both sides of the arguement are thus utterly pointless and both sides are wrong, showing a clear lack of understanding of the Tech II marketplace.
Overall the "average" value of any single Tech II component is not going to be of any significance to producing a useful average selling price.
For Tech II Components the is no such thing. I therefore suggest you all sit back and ruminate on those truths a little bit before further compounding your existing mistaken beliefs.
(Its not my place to normally interject but seeing as I was in the forum I thought I would help you all along to see the true light  )
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Demitri Klashnikov
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Posted - 2004.03.06 19:49:00 -
[37]
For the benefit of those un aware Eve Guardian is not Independent, and was in fact founded my Morkt Drak, who has on more than occasion used its power for his own ends.
lets just let the market decide the price, if my next batch don't achieve the same price I will either hold on to them or sell them cheaper, I was just pointing out I sold 150 million worth at 25/50/75k, for the benefit of the players who have stock as there have been many posts asking what a price for these are, and I felt my experience would be use full
Good luck to both the sellers and the buyers, one thing is clear we need each other.
Demi
(Proud to be independent)
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Fletcher Jones
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Posted - 2004.03.06 20:13:00 -
[38]
Well, Demitri: That was possible the single most idiotic and pointless post I have ever seen on these forums.
I have clearly demonstrated why neither price is accurate, and, amazingly, because of that neutral and logical stance we are now a biased agency and supporting Morkt Draks arguements on the forums? Dare we ask to what aim? Especially given that we don't make anything, we doon't buy anything and we don't sell anything, never have done nor ever will?
I find your lack of good grace as showing clearly the level of blinkered pettyness that some players are capable of sinking to in this game, without taking pause to stop and think what they are writing.
I was on this Forum to make my points and advertise a new position and yet your personal animosity has clouded that into an organised conspiracy theory, seemingly against just you.
You're wrong, they are wrong, you're both wrong - and yet, unbelieveably, in taking such an neutral stance stance I, and all of EG, are now a political tool of somebody who doesnt even seem to be reading this thread anymore?
You ignored every single point of my explanation and sought to do nothing but smear myself and all of EG for nothing but your own personal agrandisement.
You are, irrefutebly, a complete and utter ass.
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Demitri Klashnikov
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Posted - 2004.03.06 20:17:00 -
[39]
oh and now a flame,
I only staded whom started EG - Fact
That Morkd has admited to using it to further his own ends - Fact
I also stated the market will sort it self out which it will
you seem a little touchy on the subject, Im sure you will get over it
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Fletcher Jones
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Posted - 2004.03.06 20:33:00 -
[40]
Oh1 Im so sorry - i thought you were deliberately trying to suggest that everything I had written, and which you totally ignored the facts within, was done simply at the behest of Morkt Drak.. simply by dint of you "spontaneously" interjecting those "totally unrelated" facts into the thread.
Silly me, how foolish of me to suppose it was mere coincidence that led you to write them, and that you, in no way, intended anybody to draw a nefarious perspective from them.
i do so humbly apologise.
And now on to your interesting set of "facts":
As to the first - EG was founded by Lou Zeta. Actual fact.
It's also owned and run by him where he has the absolute and final word.
Morkt was a co-founder, along with two other people (whom I feel sure you can tell everybody who they are - being as you are so "factually" endowed).
What his help in setting up EG has to do with this thread though only you seem to know. Maybe you can explain to us all?
As to your second point:
Can you link me to your second "fact" please? We would all be very interested in seeing that "fact" in public, given that, if true, it would be grounds for him being expelled from EG.
Strangely enough, i suspect that, as with your entire thread, the "facts" may turn out to be somewhat different to your claims.
Odd that... hmmm?
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Demitri Klashnikov
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Posted - 2004.03.06 20:37:00 -
[41]
golly you even talk like him
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Fletcher Jones
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Posted - 2004.03.06 20:47:00 -
[42]
No links? No "facts"?
No surprise.
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