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Suicide gank a Navy Raven ?

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Yakia TovilToba Halliburton Inc.	Posted - 2007.11.22 14:11:00 - [1] I've recently seen pirates scanning CNRs in front of a popular missionrunner hub, where a lot of CNR dock and undock 24/7. To what i found out, they checked the fittings, in order to see who has expensive gear and may qualify for a suicide ganking run. I've been thinking about this for a while: If the pirates know what hardeners the CNR use, it must be much easier to kill it than a freighter. For example they often use kinetik/thermal on their shieldtanks against guristas so they have 0 resistnace in EM - an easy prey for a gang of few suicide domis/torpravens that can chose damagetype. On the other hand it might be hard to catch them, i think it only works if you get them at a gate or probe them and give them a visit in their mission deadspacespot, means a lot of work and patience is required. What do you think, how expensive must the CNR fitting be, to make it worth chasing ? An old pirate told me something of 3-4 billion, sounds like a reasonable number, but maybe some pirates with more experiance on this issue have some better info ? And how many ships would it take to bring down a CNR with gist tank, before concord kills the attackers, if the right damagetype is chosen ?
Darkopteron Fatalix Inc. THORN Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.22 14:24:00 - [2] Your typical CNR mission runner pilot is usually fresh out of WoW and wants to be "uber" by buying loads of faction/officer mods. I'm guessing a small group of T1 domi's and gankgeddons should do the trick, the sec status of the system affects the concord response, which determines how many ships you'll need to use to get the job done - you'll have to experiment at first. Tier 1 BS only cost a few mil to replace so really if you scan anything with more than a couple of valuable mods (expect some to go pop), it is worth attempting to gank.
Ki An Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum The Church.	Posted - 2007.11.22 14:30:00 - [3] I honestly doubt they where looking to suicide gank the CNR. More likely is that they where looking to pull a 'Lofty'. Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"!
Yakia TovilToba Halliburton Inc.	Posted - 2007.11.22 15:03:00 - [4] Ok maybe they are trying the "Lofty", although i think most of the missionrunners, that play long enough to have enough isk for expensive stuff, know the "Lofty" and won't gang anyone. I just wonder why aren't there more threads on this issue, whenever i read about suicide ganking it's usually freighter pilots. But isn't it much easier and more profitable to suicide-gank CNRs (or pimped missionrunner ships of other races) ? If you take a few domis for example, drones+blaster+1-2 neuts each domi, this will suck the CNR almost instantly empty of cap, means all that shiny gist stuff and that faction/officer hardeners don't work anymore and you have left only a few thousands of hp with only natural resistances .. not very hard to kill - why isn't this done more often ?
Ki An Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum The Church.	Posted - 2007.11.22 15:07:00 - [5] I think it mostly has to do with the fact that few CNR are all officer fitted, and those few items that make the kill worthwhile has a good chance of popping. With freighters and haulers, usually we are talking huge amounts of items, all of which will not pop. Combine that with the fact that suiciding a CNR takes a substansial effort (perhaps not as big as a freighter gank, but still) and you will find that it's just not cost effective. Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"!
Ash Solar	Posted - 2007.11.22 15:28:00 - [6] freighters got a lot of hit points, but a navy raven with all it's lights flashing probably has more effective HP, for sure I think saila/motsu is like 0.86 or something? concord will arrive kinda fast (meaning you have to use ever more suicide ships), unlike a freighter gank in 0.5 where concord takes ages. a swarm of arty thrashers could put out battleship sized damage though....1.4/.5k alpha per on thermal damage using phased plasma, if they got two rounds off each that'd be interesting if the thermal damage was not tanked.
Rexxar Civire Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.11.22 17:07:00 - [7] Edited by: Rexxar Civire on 22/11/2007 17:07:57 http://mdk.griefwatch.net/index.php?p=details&kill=18622 Infoz for ya Rex
Ash Solar	Posted - 2007.11.22 17:14:00 - [8] Originally by: Rexxar Civire Edited by: Rexxar Civire on 22/11/2007 17:07:57 http://mdk.griefwatch.net/index.php?p=details&kill=18622 Infoz for ya Rex so they farmed forever to get a mega expensive ship with uber expensive fittings that was a bit better than a normal raven for farming yet more isk to officer fit their ship so they could farm a bit better and be more leet, then got blown up in a suicide gank and made some pirates a heap of cash...<3 the food chain.
Einar Lightfingers Domini Umbrus VENOM Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.22 17:52:00 - [9] Originally by: Rexxar Civire Edited by: Rexxar Civire on 22/11/2007 17:07:57 http://mdk.griefwatch.net/index.php?p=details&kill=18622 Infoz for ya Rex Man, those are some messed up numbers on your KB. Nicely done.. is it any wonder I hate you right now? _______________________ CEO of Domini Umbrus
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2007.11.22 19:50:00 - [10] Originally by: Rexxar Civire Edited by: Rexxar Civire on 22/11/2007 17:07:57 http://mdk.griefwatch.net/index.php?p=details&kill=18622 Infoz for ya Rex booster survived! now the question is which one was it? makes me wonder what else survived.
Flinx Evenstar Minmatar Spartan Industries Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.22 19:59:00 - [11] Originally by: Yakia TovilToba And how many ships would it take to bring down a CNR with gist tank, before concord kills the attackers, if the right damagetype is chosen ? There is a more sneaky way of taking out a CNR in high sec without throwing a whole bunch of suicide ships at it Lets just say that a Raven is cap reliant, and for example if it was in a mission taking full aggro, when it suddenly had its cap nuked...it may be in a spot of bother This plan involves some other ships that don't get popped, but I'll leave it up to your imagination as to what they do [04:58:57] Azzloran > ever heard of a drake? you wont like them when they decloak on you
Dubious Drewski	Posted - 2007.11.23 03:43:00 - [12] This thread kinda scares me. My CNR's only worth about 1.6 bill, but would any of you consider having a go at me? Despite everyone telling me I'm a lunatic, I always fit a large cap injector(With cap safeguard rigs, of course), Damage control and an omnitank. And you guys are the reason why! I know you're out there, secretly scanning me! One day, there might be a gang of greedy folks out there who miscalculate my ship's worth and have a go at me! When that happens, I'll be ready. Originally by: Slayton Ford a Drake is normally primaried last And that's why I love that homely boat!
Silent Killa Caldari Macrominer Waste Management United Corporations Against Macros	Posted - 2007.11.23 05:26:00 - [13] CNRs are easy to kill once you go in their mission and steal their loot Zero cost and lots of nice loot We killed atleast 6 or 7 in the past month like that + oodles of regular ravens some being nicely fit. http://macrointel.kicks-ass.org/ http://macrointel.eve-kb.org/
Dubious Drewski	Posted - 2007.11.23 07:31:00 - [14] I'm calling you on that. You did not gank "6 or 7" CNRs "in the past month" that way. There are many, many stupid people in eve, but doubt you had that kind of luck. I think you probably got 1 or 2 braindead CNR pilots to agro you, at most. C'mon, don't inflate the numbers. Originally by: Slayton Ford a Drake is normally primaried last And that's why I love that homely boat!
Arekhon Mutually Assured Distraction	Posted - 2007.11.23 07:38:00 - [15] Originally by: Dubious Drewski I'm calling you on that. You did not gank "6 or 7" CNRs "in the past month" that way. There are many, many stupid people in eve, but doubt you had that kind of luck. I think you probably got 1 or 2 braindead CNR pilots to agro you, at most. C'mon, don't inflate the numbers. i'm with this guy.....proof or stfu Dirty Deeds Done Dirt Cheap [BEES]
Silent Killa Caldari Macrominer Waste Management United Corporations Against Macros	Posted - 2007.11.23 08:00:00 - [16] Edited by: Silent Killa on 23/11/2007 08:02:32 umm well our killboard is in my sig, why not go there, its a bit wacked out but browse away and call me out. I know atleast 6 for sure without even looking. Check the other link for videos of 2 I personally killed in the past month. http://macrointel.kicks-ass.org/ http://macrointel.eve-kb.org/
Ash Solar	Posted - 2007.11.23 09:16:00 - [17] Originally by: Flinx Evenstar Originally by: Yakia TovilToba And how many ships would it take to bring down a CNR with gist tank, before concord kills the attackers, if the right damagetype is chosen ? There is a more sneaky way of taking out a CNR in high sec without throwing a whole bunch of suicide ships at it Lets just say that a Raven is cap reliant, and for example if it was in a mission taking full aggro, when it suddenly had its cap nuked...it may be in a spot of bother This plan involves some other ships that don't get popped, but I'll leave it up to your imagination as to what they do bump!! omg awesome.
Dubious Drewski	Posted - 2007.11.23 09:17:00 - [18] Edited by: Dubious Drewski on 23/11/2007 09:18:13 Well, the KB seems to back you up. My faith in Eve pilots intelligence has just been knocked down a peg. Ok, so you showed proof, now this is the part where you stfu! Ok, ok, I kid. edit: Ash? wtf? This thread was at the top of the first page and you thought it needed a bump? Lol man, lol. Originally by: Slayton Ford a Drake is normally primaried last And that's why I love that homely boat!
Ash Solar	Posted - 2007.11.23 09:20:00 - [19] Originally by: Dubious Drewski Edited by: Dubious Drewski on 23/11/2007 09:18:13 Well, the KB seems to back you up. My faith in Eve pilots intelligence has just been knocked down a peg. Ok, so you showed proof, now this is the part where you stfu! Ok, ok, I kid. edit: Ash? wtf? This thread was at the top of the first page and you thought it needed a bump? Lol man, lol. nono, that's what the ships that don't get concorded do (to the cap nuked CNR), silly :P
Dubious Drewski	Posted - 2007.11.23 09:26:00 - [20] Oh, haha, gotcha. With all these Ravens and CNRs that get cap-nuked then popped, how many of them are cap-injected, I wonder? Could you neutralize my cap if I had a large injector pumping up my cap with 800s? I think it would be near impossible. Originally by: Slayton Ford a Drake is normally primaried last And that's why I love that homely boat!
Flinx Evenstar Minmatar Spartan Industries Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.23 09:40:00 - [21] Originally by: Dubious Drewski Oh, haha, gotcha. With all these Ravens and CNRs that get cap-nuked then popped, how many of them are cap-injected, I wonder? Could you neutralize my cap if I had a large injector pumping up my cap with 800s? I think it would be near impossible. Very few mission running ravens are injected, they use cap rechargers. PVP fitted raven is completely different yes. You can always use a ship scanner to be sure [04:58:57] Azzloran > ever heard of a drake? you wont like them when they decloak on you
murrue PARABELUM-Project	Posted - 2007.11.23 11:18:00 - [22] Can flag in mission doesn't often work, most of them just warp out and cancel it. But, you can also try to get KR on them: sometimes, we have isk farmers who come in your low-sec and flag on everything, and we just let them pop us in T1 frigs :) My ceo managed to catch 5 or 6 raven/cnr in 1 week with this. Or at last, you can just wait for them to come in low sec for missioning : 4 months noob cnr 1.5B loot, like gist C XL
Dubious Drewski	Posted - 2007.11.23 16:26:00 - [23] Originally by: Flinx Evenstar Very few mission running ravens are injected, they use cap rechargers. PVP fitted raven is completely different yes. You can always use a ship scanner to be sure Hey now, this is a sheep you're talking to, not a wolf. I'm not gonna go scan down folks in their CNRs so I can take them out with my....CNR. It's just not cost effective. I was just asking so I could confirm that I'm nearly ungankable in my CNR. So Nananana! When I pvp, I do it in ships of MY choosing! Originally by: Slayton Ford a Drake is normally primaried last And that's why I love that homely boat!
Setana Manoro Gallente Firefly Inc.	Posted - 2007.11.23 16:49:00 - [24] Edited by: Setana Manoro on 23/11/2007 16:51:42 Originally by: Flinx Evenstar Originally by: Yakia TovilToba And how many ships would it take to bring down a CNR with gist tank, before concord kills the attackers, if the right damagetype is chosen ? There is a more sneaky way of taking out a CNR in high sec without throwing a whole bunch of suicide ships at it Lets just say that a Raven is cap reliant, and for example if it was in a mission taking full aggro, when it suddenly had its cap nuked...it may be in a spot of bother This plan involves some other ships that don't get popped, but I'll leave it up to your imagination as to what they do 2-3 AB fast ships, 1 geddon with neuts to kill his cap completely. It may work, unless he has a cap injector. :) Most of them don't have cap injectors, but some of my friends who got to missions after 1yr of pvp-ing - got to try them, don't run them without a cap injector because "sh*t can happen". Rifter is not X-Wing CCP. Trinity model kinda sucks.
Xaeon Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.11.23 17:52:00 - [25] Originally by: Setana Manoro Edited by: Setana Manoro on 23/11/2007 16:51:42 Originally by: Flinx Evenstar Originally by: Yakia TovilToba And how many ships would it take to bring down a CNR with gist tank, before concord kills the attackers, if the right damagetype is chosen ? There is a more sneaky way of taking out a CNR in high sec without throwing a whole bunch of suicide ships at it Lets just say that a Raven is cap reliant, and for example if it was in a mission taking full aggro, when it suddenly had its cap nuked...it may be in a spot of bother This plan involves some other ships that don't get popped, but I'll leave it up to your imagination as to what they do 2-3 AB fast ships, 1 geddon with neuts to kill his cap completely. It may work, unless he has a cap injector. :) Most of them don't have cap injectors, but some of my friends who got to missions after 1yr of pvp-ing - got to try them, don't run them without a cap injector because "sh*t can happen". It's not about if he tanks you though to be fair, it's about how long you have until CONCORD arrives on grid. Once that has happened anyone that opens fire from that point will get their one-volley then face instagib. The only way, without some kind of flagging, therefore, is to kill it before being killed. You don't need as many ships as we used for it, that's just who was online and what we had with us at the time. Xaeon Chapter VIII 14/11/07
Flinx Evenstar Minmatar Spartan Industries Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.23 18:18:00 - [26] Edited by: Flinx Evenstar on 23/11/2007 18:23:26 Originally by: Dubious Drewski I was just asking so I could confirm that I'm nearly ungankable in my CNR. So Nananana! When I pvp, I do it in ships of MY choosing! Nothing is ungankable...if that is even a word It's a question of how much the ship might drop in loot, divided by the number of ships need to break the tank multiplied by beer(squared) For example, this crazy fitting was killed in low sec. The cap recharger's on that are meant for motherships and worth around 2bil each. Total fittings on that is around 20bil Now THAT is the sort of insane fitting that is going to attract the attention of ship scanners from 5 regions out. PS..I don't suicide gank. It took me a LONG time to grind back up from -10 sec status. , and I don't plan on lowering it [04:58:57] Azzloran > ever heard of a drake? you wont like them when they decloak on you
Lithalnas Amarr Headcrabs	Posted - 2007.11.23 19:00:00 - [27] holy hell, thats so out there i would say its fake, but its veto so it is true. ------------- fixed for greater eve content
Dubious Drewski	Posted - 2007.11.24 00:03:00 - [28] Originally by: Flinx Evenstar Nothing is ungankable...if that is even a word I am almost ungankable. I am taking my own common sense into consideration(Don't go to low sec with it, don't fall for aggro-bait while flying it, etc), as well as my ship's "low" isk worth and its very strong anti-gank setup. I will not be ganked. Originally by: Flinx Evenstar For example, this crazy fitting was killed in low sec. The cap recharger's on that are meant for motherships and worth around 2bil each. Total fittings on that is around 20bil A 20bill Drake?? My jaw is stuck open! What the flying hell was he doing with PDSs, cap rechargers and T1 light Drones on a Drake? He likely had no support skills, no fitting knowledge and is a fine example of the consequences of buying isk. 20 bill isk is like a few hundred real dollars, isn't it? Geez! Originally by: Slayton Ford a Drake is normally primaried last And that's why I love that homely boat!
Castra Noor	Posted - 2007.11.24 19:51:00 - [29] Originally by: Ash Solar freighters got a lot of hit points, but a navy raven with all it's lights flashing probably has more effective HP, for sure I think saila/motsu is like 0.86 or something? concord will arrive kinda fast (meaning you have to use ever more suicide ships), unlike a freighter gank in 0.5 where concord takes ages. a swarm of arty thrashers could put out battleship sized damage though....1.4/.5k alpha per on thermal damage using phased plasma, if they got two rounds off each that'd be interesting if the thermal damage was not tanked. System sec status has only a small concord respond time effect. A much bigger effect is the security statues of the raven pilot. If someone has a sec. rating of 1 you might have luck, but against someone with 5: no chance, concord will show up very very fast and keal the pairats before they can keal the carebear raven.
Zhaine B e l l u m	Posted - 2007.11.25 01:31:00 - [30] Originally by: Castra Noor Originally by: Ash Solar freighters got a lot of hit points, but a navy raven with all it's lights flashing probably has more effective HP, for sure I think saila/motsu is like 0.86 or something? concord will arrive kinda fast (meaning you have to use ever more suicide ships), unlike a freighter gank in 0.5 where concord takes ages. a swarm of arty thrashers could put out battleship sized damage though....1.4/.5k alpha per on thermal damage using phased plasma, if they got two rounds off each that'd be interesting if the thermal damage was not tanked. System sec status has only a small concord respond time effect. A much bigger effect is the security statues of the raven pilot. If someone has a sec. rating of 1 you might have luck, but against someone with 5: no chance, concord will show up very very fast and keal the pairats before they can keal the carebear raven. Can anyone confirm that target sec status has an effect on concord response time?
Dubious Drewski	Posted - 2007.11.26 02:05:00 - [31] No, Castra is mistaken. Your personal sec status does not affect Concord response time at all. Originally by: Slayton Ford a Drake is normally primaried last And that's why I love that homely boat!
Castra Noor	Posted - 2007.12.11 05:29:00 - [32] Originally by: Dubious Drewski No, Castra is mistaken. Your personal sec status does not affect Concord response time at all. Actually it does, it's just that you don't have any clue about this. Back to topic. It's very easy to kill any ship by nuking it's cap with a energy neutalizer boat and a couple of damagedealers. But i don't think missionrunners have to worry, since pirates are not the brightest people in eve. In fact they are lazy and dumb, they prefer to sit the whole day at gates to jita and wait for shuttles with titan bpos or afk haulers full with megacyte. They like to blob in lowsec, killing lonely travellers with 20 or more ships and then feel kinda good after that "we are the evil pirates who owned someone". They are too dumb and too lazy to observe missionrunnerhubs, scan and find them, it's too much work and effort and there's still little risk ivolved, so that's nothing for the average lazy pirates, who would rather complain in forums and writhe threads like "omg omg whine whine piracy is dead". So there's really nothing to worry about for cnr pilots.
techzer0 IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2007.12.11 05:57:00 - [33] Originally by: Castra Noor Originally by: Dubious Drewski No, Castra is mistaken. Your personal sec status does not affect Concord response time at all. Actually it does, it's just that you don't have any clue about this. I dont think that qualifies as proof that it affects anything. To be a troll "Proof or stfu..." because SYSTEM sec status is what affects concord response as has been proven many times. To my knowledge you're the first one I've ever seen say that concord plays favorites with +5.0 sec players, so... Uhh yeah where can I find more info, or is there nothing to support your argument? ____________________ Hi. I'm not an alt :) Originally by: kessah -notice the fact the are all nearly Amarr and Amarr do not suck.
Arekhon Mutually Assured Distraction	Posted - 2007.12.11 06:46:00 - [34] Originally by: Castra Noor Originally by: Dubious Drewski No, Castra is mistaken. Your personal sec status does not affect Concord response time at all. Actually it does, it's just that you don't have any clue about this. nice comeback along with that structured argument...oh wait Dirty Deeds Done Dirt Cheap [BEES]
Strife Phoenix Acerbus Vindictum Nex Super Vos	Posted - 2007.12.11 11:13:00 - [35] I've heard that argument before, if I'm not mistaken it was you Castra that mentioned it the first time as well (or I'm having a Deja Vue or how the hell that is spelled). Anyway. Give us solid proof or STFU pls :) Acerbus-Vindictum - Revelare Pecunia!
Gok Tor Caldari coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.12.11 14:04:00 - [36] a mega and 2 geddons works well http://www.ardente.org/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=12151
abbagabba Gallente Monster Raving Loonies	Posted - 2007.12.11 14:41:00 - [37] Originally by: Castra Noor System sec status has only a small concord respond time effect. A much bigger effect is the security statues of the raven pilot. If someone has a sec. rating of 1 you might have luck, but against someone with 5: no chance, concord will show up very very fast and keal the pairats before they can keal the carebear raven. A much bigger effect would imply it can make over 14 seconds of difference. Of course Castra Noor is the only player to have noticed this dramatic change in response times because all suiciders are lazy, brain dead gate hangers. In fact it makes no difference at all.
Sarah Benthwell Dolaris Holdings	Posted - 2007.12.11 16:21:00 - [38] Originally by: Gok Tor a mega and 2 geddons works well http://www.ardente.org/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=12151 ^_^ was just about to link that when i saw this topic. _______ shigs
Omarvelous Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2007.12.11 17:07:00 - [39] Edited by: Omarvelous on 11/12/2007 17:08:00 Originally by: Castra Noor I trolled There there - I'll go get some Midol for you. You must have been the victim of numerous acts of piracy and its left you so cranky. Shhhhh its OK... *pats Castra on her head... __________________________________________________ Sup brosef! Destry's Lounge is looking for a few good drunks - contact me in game.
Nexa Necis The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2007.12.11 19:12:00 - [40] Edited by: Nexa Necis on 11/12/2007 19:12:40 Keep in mind these people who get suicided have no clue they're about to get ganked so they usually don't have their mods activated at the time of death. Also they tend to hang in crowded mission hubs and probably get a bit of lag when undocking/jumping. Another good spot is Irjunen. Gobs and gobs of officer/faction fitted Ravens there 23/7.
Castra Noor	Posted - 2007.12.11 19:24:00 - [41] Originally by: Gok Tor a mega and 2 geddons works well http://www.ardente.org/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=12151 Lol that's awsome. But this guy had a cap injector (nuking dry can't work?) and a damage control + there are no mission rats on the killmail. How did they bring him down with only 3 ships at a gate/station with that setup, which some would see as gank-proof ? I think this was not a suicide run, they probably got him to agress you somehow or join a gang with someone you wardecced ? Can't kill a faction setup containing cap injector with 3 ships against concord.
Ranger802004 Caldari Knights Of the Black Sun Brotherhood Of Steel	Posted - 2007.12.11 20:02:00 - [42] lol he's not lying his KB has 8 CNR Kills in the past 30 days about.... Originally by: Silent Killa Edited by: Silent Killa on 23/11/2007 08:02:32 umm well our killboard is in my sig, why not go there, its a bit wacked out but browse away and call me out. I know atleast 6 for sure without even looking. Check the other link for videos of 2 I personally killed in the past month.
Gok Tor Caldari coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.12.11 20:49:00 - [43] Originally by: Castra Noor Originally by: Gok Tor a mega and 2 geddons works well http://www.ardente.org/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=12151 Lol that's awsome. But this guy had a cap injector (nuking dry can't work?) and a damage control + there are no mission rats on the killmail. How did they bring him down with only 3 ships at a gate/station with that setup, which some would see as gank-proof ? I think this was not a suicide run, they probably got him to agress you somehow or join a gang with someone you wardecced ? Can't kill a faction setup containing cap injector with 3 ships against concord. tehy caught him AFKing threw empire. it was a suicede gank that is why shigsy at the bottom is in a pod.
Dubious Drewski	Posted - 2007.12.11 21:54:00 - [44] Originally by: Gok Tor they caught him AFKing threw empire. it was a suicede gank that is why shigsy at the bottom is in a pod. Ah, so his hardeners and shield booster weren't activated at all then. Well that's good, cause that scared me for a moment. I'm still safe, cause even when I'm flying 1 or 2 jumps to missions in high sec, I keep my hardeners on, and I NEVER go afk. (@Castra: lol) Originally by: Slayton Ford a Drake is normally primaried last And that's why I love that homely boat!

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