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I believe its time for a dev responce - been afew years now.

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kessah Blood Corsair's Blood Blind	Posted - 2007.11.23 14:17:00 - [1] Its been afew years since the stacking penalty of dmg mods and other such things, alittle less for the general boosts to tanking and 'longer gameplay' initiatives CCP has introduce it is now time for a response to the only ship in game that without a doubt 95% of eve a guess, but a fairly accurate on feel needs to be changed. The Apocalypse is now long since been out of date in its current fashion, ive commented on this ship numerous times but i feel the community is due an explanation on why the development team still havnt told us what they feel needs to be done about probably the most prestigious Battleship in EvE. The Emperor's yaught and pride of the fleet in RP perspective, and once deadly ship in eve need a makeover. Desperately. I only need a nod from a dev to tell me its being looked at and i shall walk away feeling happy. My personal opinion to the ship is: Keep it that Emperors pride: 8 Turrets 8 highs, in fact the same layout. Bonuses i believe would help it are 7.5% tracking, 5% opt range. Give the a high capacitor amount anyway perhaps not as much as it is now but it still should be higher than the Abaddon. 125m3 drone bandwidth + 125m3 drone bay at least - its a massive ship its needs this. finally an increase to CPU and Grid CPU especially I dont think this would in anyways make it overpowered in today EvE. Two routes imho, high tracking precision gunship to anything mid range class in eve. or a Out of range hitting hard from range - 5% opt range allows the MP to hit at some nice but no overpowered distances. I believe this battleship needs some TLC and some Dev to say it is being handled correctly. Thankyou. ------ [Video] Forever Pirate 4
Horza Otho Minmatar Infortunatus Eventus HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2007.11.23 14:20:00 - [2] Edited by: Horza Otho on 23/11/2007 14:20:44 There is no need for a boost to an Apoc, aside from a small cpu boost, because it is as good exploiting its strengths as a megathron exploits its strengths. I'm sure you've heard of cap = life... well whenever i pvp in my Apoc i tend to live alot.
kessah Blood Corsair's Blood Blind	Posted - 2007.11.23 14:24:00 - [3] sorry would just like to add there i dont mean to give it 7.5% tracking and 5% opt range just one of them and the 5% laser cap reduction. ------ [Video] Forever Pirate 4
DARTHxFREE G.R.U.N.T	Posted - 2007.11.23 14:26:00 - [4] Give it a 9th turret point, so it will once again be the best mining BS. Problem with the 3 Amarr BS's is their all the same, just gun ships with almost similar set ups, Geddon at least doing a nice trimark to add variation. /join Cheeze & Whine Club
kessah Blood Corsair's Blood Blind	Posted - 2007.11.23 14:26:00 - [5] Originally by: Horza Otho Edited by: Horza Otho on 23/11/2007 14:20:44 There is no need for a boost to an Apoc, aside from a small cpu boost, because it is as good exploiting its strengths as a megathron exploits its strengths. I'm sure you've heard of cap = life... well whenever i pvp in my Apoc i tend to live alot. if ur talkin about hte neut apoc ur not using it properly and the way i believe CCP wants it to be known for. I like guns! Amarr like guns! ------ [Video] Forever Pirate 4
Horza Otho Minmatar Infortunatus Eventus HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2007.11.23 14:30:00 - [6] Originally by: kessah Originally by: Horza Otho Edited by: Horza Otho on 23/11/2007 14:20:44 There is no need for a boost to an Apoc, aside from a small cpu boost, because it is as good exploiting its strengths as a megathron exploits its strengths. I'm sure you've heard of cap = life... well whenever i pvp in my Apoc i tend to live alot. if ur talkin about hte neut apoc ur not using it properly and the way i believe CCP wants it to be known for. I like guns! Amarr like guns! I like guns too, but if your using a ship wouldn't you want to play its strengths to insure victory? Not exploiting the Apocs cap superiority is like fitting TP's on Arazu's or Webby's on Rooks. I believe the Neut Apoc is exactly what ccp wanted the apoc to be. However, lets not forget how it can perma-run 8 Tachyon II.
Wu Jiun	Posted - 2007.11.23 14:54:00 - [7] You want dev responses? Well, these few are my collection from the last month. Not specifically concerning the apoc, but it might give you a hint. Originally by: CCP Zulupark Note that we have at no point sat down and said "lets tinker with Amarr" Originally by: CCP Zulupark Personally I have a wish list for what I'd like to do with a few Amarr ships, but that's a whole other discussion at a later date. Originally by: CCP Zulupark I meant: Most of us agree that Amarr need oomph. We didn't have time to do it now, but we'll start looking at it soon. So please make ready to wait another 2 years. Then you might get +100pg or something.
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.11.23 15:23:00 - [8] Originally by: Wu Jiun You want dev responses? Well, these few are my collection from the last month. Not specifically concerning the apoc, but it might give you a hint. Originally by: CCP Zulupark Note that we have at no point sat down and said "lets tinker with Amarr" Originally by: CCP Zulupark Personally I have a wish list for what I'd like to do with a few Amarr ships, but that's a whole other discussion at a later date. Originally by: CCP Zulupark I meant: Most of us agree that Amarr need oomph. We didn't have time to do it now, but we'll start looking at it soon. So please make ready to wait another 2 years. Then you might get +100pg or something. Nah ccp never makes small changes or minor tweakings. Its BOOOST or NEEEERF. +100 is kiddy stuff. Probably will be +10 k pg or something _________________________________________________ Breetime A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
kessah Blood Corsair's Blood Blind	Posted - 2007.11.23 15:24:00 - [9] ------ [Video] Forever Pirate 4
Horza Otho Minmatar Infortunatus Eventus HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2007.11.23 15:41:00 - [10] If there was a change you can bet they'd do exactly opposite what is needed (cpu boost mostly but that can be discussed) and probably change it to a 5 slot shield tanking split weapon AC/laser nano-battleship.
ry ry StateCorp The State	Posted - 2007.11.23 15:49:00 - [11] Edited by: ry ry on 23/11/2007 15:50:08 Originally by: Horza Otho If there was a change you can bet they'd do exactly opposite what is needed (cpu boost mostly but that can be discussed) and probably change it to a 5 slot shield tanking split weapon AC/laser nano-battleship. a corpmate and i had a noobship fight t'other day, and i went for the comedy option speed tanking AC/laser noobship. turned out he was scoop/redeploying gaylente bastard, and i ran away. totally hardcore.
Horza Otho Minmatar Infortunatus Eventus HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2007.11.23 15:51:00 - [12] Originally by: ry ry Edited by: ry ry on 23/11/2007 15:50:08 Originally by: Horza Otho If there was a change you can bet they'd do exactly opposite what is needed (cpu boost mostly but that can be discussed) and probably change it to a 5 slot shield tanking split weapon AC/laser nano-battleship. a corpmate and i had a noobship fight t'other day, and i went for the comedy option speed tanking AC/laser noobship. turned out he was scoop/redeploying gaylente bastard, and i ran away. totally hardcore. I once ate a whole chicken. A live chicken.
Mastin Dragonfly Bloodthorn Voyages	Posted - 2007.11.23 16:11:00 - [13] Originally by: kessah Originally by: Horza Otho Edited by: Horza Otho on 23/11/2007 14:20:44 There is no need for a boost to an Apoc, aside from a small cpu boost, because it is as good exploiting its strengths as a megathron exploits its strengths. I'm sure you've heard of cap = life... well whenever i pvp in my Apoc i tend to live alot. if ur talkin about hte neut apoc ur not using it properly and the way i believe CCP wants it to be known for. I like guns! Amarr like guns! I love guns, but I'd rather see the Apoc get changed into a big arbitrator, 3 battleships that are pretty much the same isn't all that useful.
kessah Blood Corsair's Blood Blind	Posted - 2007.11.23 16:26:00 - [14] /me stamps foot and goes into a tandrum. but i want it now! ------ [Video] Forever Pirate 4
Mr Li The Graduates	Posted - 2007.11.23 19:35:00 - [15] the thing with bonuses is that you can just choose any bonus. Tracking bonuses are Gallente/Minmatar. An optimal range bonus would be awesome, but i'm afraid tachyons with a 10% bonus to optimal per level would pwn way to hard. i can see the difficulty to adding some kind of purpose to this boat. There was a devblog stating that the Apoc was being looked at for a role change. The only possibilities I could see are an Arbitrator-esque BS or some kind of capacitor warfare platform. Both of which are a stretch. They could also leave it as is, but projectiles being the best option for an Amarr ship is just...frustrating.
Lithalnas Amarr Headcrabs	Posted - 2007.11.23 20:01:00 - [16] 5% damage and range for smartbombs or 5% lens flair per lvl or 10% turret signature radius or 20% energy weapon cap use or 200% transfer range for armor/shield/cap transfers or 5% bonus to grid and CPU per lvl. ------------- fixed for greater eve content
Hatsim	Posted - 2007.11.23 20:03:00 - [17] 8 Missileslots and tis fine "imagine a dozen hornets pouring from the devil's mouth, Now imagine they have autocannons." /Hatsim
Incantare Caldari Kernel of War Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.11.23 20:10:00 - [18] My favored outcome would involve 5% bonuses to tracking and optimal, maybe 7.5% tracking. Cue Gounmidong coming in to say the optimal bonus would obsolete the megathron. But really any change to the ship is welcome. Though missiles, it's not a Khanid ship, I'd much rather see a proper Khanid faction apoc released.
IamBen Caldari Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2007.11.23 20:55:00 - [19] apoc with energy emission skills lvl 5 and a mix of neuts and lasers is a great solo ship :)
iiOs	Posted - 2007.11.23 20:58:00 - [20] would be nice if it was khanid boat!
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Uninvited Guests Cult of War	Posted - 2007.11.23 21:02:00 - [21] Originally by: Horza Otho Originally by: kessah Originally by: Horza Otho Edited by: Horza Otho on 23/11/2007 14:20:44 There is no need for a boost to an Apoc, aside from a small cpu boost, because it is as good exploiting its strengths as a megathron exploits its strengths. I'm sure you've heard of cap = life... well whenever i pvp in my Apoc i tend to live alot. if ur talkin about hte neut apoc ur not using it properly and the way i believe CCP wants it to be known for. I like guns! Amarr like guns! I like guns too, but if your using a ship wouldn't you want to play its strengths to insure victory? Not exploiting the Apocs cap superiority is like fitting TP's on Arazu's or Webby's on Rooks. I believe the Neut Apoc is exactly what ccp wanted the apoc to be. However, lets not forget how it can perma-run 8 Tachyon II. Cap superiority doesnt exist in a game run by cap boosters. Its a lie.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Uninvited Guests Cult of War	Posted - 2007.11.23 21:04:00 - [22] Originally by: Mastin Dragonfly Originally by: kessah Originally by: Horza Otho Edited by: Horza Otho on 23/11/2007 14:20:44 There is no need for a boost to an Apoc, aside from a small cpu boost, because it is as good exploiting its strengths as a megathron exploits its strengths. I'm sure you've heard of cap = life... well whenever i pvp in my Apoc i tend to live alot. if ur talkin about hte neut apoc ur not using it properly and the way i believe CCP wants it to be known for. I like guns! Amarr like guns! I love guns, but I'd rather see the Apoc get changed into a big arbitrator, 3 battleships that are pretty much the same isn't all that useful. Nah screw the EW its crap anyways. Just give it 8 missile slots and a missile dmg bonus instead of lasers. How about that.
kessah Blood Corsair's Blood Blind	Posted - 2007.11.23 21:44:00 - [23] Needed a song to show what the Apoc does to me... in first post NOW THE LOVE ISSSSSS GONE! ------ [Video] Forever Pirate 4
Mrski Okupator Amarr The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.11.24 02:01:00 - [24] @ OP May Gods bless your soul. ___ Apocalypse Mining. Mine your way to heaven. What playing Amarr feels like. Shamelessly snatched from Almarez.
Naviset	Posted - 2007.11.24 03:33:00 - [25] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Mastin Dragonfly Originally by: kessah Originally by: Horza Otho Edited by: Horza Otho on 23/11/2007 14:20:44 There is no need for a boost to an Apoc, aside from a small cpu boost, because it is as good exploiting its strengths as a megathron exploits its strengths. I'm sure you've heard of cap = life... well whenever i pvp in my Apoc i tend to live alot. if ur talkin about hte neut apoc ur not using it properly and the way i believe CCP wants it to be known for. I like guns! Amarr like guns! I love guns, but I'd rather see the Apoc get changed into a big arbitrator, 3 battleships that are pretty much the same isn't all that useful. Nah screw the EW its crap anyways. Just give it 8 missile slots and a missile dmg bonus instead of lasers. How about that. Making it as good as a state raven. Sure. How about we give it 7 maybe 8 missile hardpoints and NO missile bonus. Or make it a 4/4 system, or 6 missiles and a missile bonus, with 2 turret hardpoints. I don't think making the Apoc the best missile boat in the game is the best of ideas :-P
Yukisa	Posted - 2007.11.24 03:54:00 - [26] Drone BOAT!! Arbi needs a big bro! Amarr already have 2 gun boats, a 3rd one is redundant.
Commander Thrawn Fluffy Rabbit Killers	Posted - 2007.11.24 04:04:00 - [27] Originally by: Yukisa Drone BOAT!! Arbi needs a big bro! Amarr already have 2 gun boats, a 3rd one is redundant. agreed. but from an RP standpoint, the abbadon is what the apoc should of been and the abbadon should of been the EW drone boat
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Uninvited Guests Cult of War	Posted - 2007.11.24 05:00:00 - [28] Originally by: Naviset Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Mastin Dragonfly Originally by: kessah Originally by: Horza Otho Edited by: Horza Otho on 23/11/2007 14:20:44 There is no need for a boost to an Apoc, aside from a small cpu boost, because it is as good exploiting its strengths as a megathron exploits its strengths. I'm sure you've heard of cap = life... well whenever i pvp in my Apoc i tend to live alot. if ur talkin about hte neut apoc ur not using it properly and the way i believe CCP wants it to be known for. I like guns! Amarr like guns! I love guns, but I'd rather see the Apoc get changed into a big arbitrator, 3 battleships that are pretty much the same isn't all that useful. Nah screw the EW its crap anyways. Just give it 8 missile slots and a missile dmg bonus instead of lasers. How about that. Making it as good as a state raven. Sure. How about we give it 7 maybe 8 missile hardpoints and NO missile bonus. Or make it a 4/4 system, or 6 missiles and a missile bonus, with 2 turret hardpoints. I don't think making the Apoc the best missile boat in the game is the best of ideas :-P Give it an heavy assault missile bonus. That way it wont interfere with ravens role. No turret points, no extra useless utility high either. Give it 8 missile slots with HAM bonus. And what is so wrong with the idea that it would be as good as a raven? An amarr ship shouldnt be as good as another races ship or whats your point? They should always be subpar or ...?
Arthur Frayn Veterans Of Liberation Ltd.	Posted - 2007.11.24 05:59:00 - [29] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Give it an heavy assault missile bonus. That way it wont interfere with ravens role. No turret points, no extra useless utility high either. Give it 8 missile slots with HAM bonus. And what is so wrong with the idea that it would be as good as a raven? An amarr ship shouldnt be as good as another races ship or whats your point? They should always be subpar or ...? Giving the Apoc a bonus to CRUISER weapons is the epitome of silliness. What would you have, a 20% bonus to HAM damage and flight time per level? You might as well make it a torp boat. I think of an armortanked missile ship with no space for BCUs and I hope... I just hope it happens for the comedy value when everyone who flies it gets podded. -- Eve needs a dose of Top Gun without the sweaty shower scenes.
Verx Interis Amarr Aurora Security	Posted - 2007.11.24 07:25:00 - [30] Well looking at setups here.. Yes I'll admit I'm playing EFT here and don't have much experience fighting against/with an Apoc but... It can fit and run 6 MPII and 2 Heavy Neut II's with 2xCap Recharger I and CCC rigs. The Neuts let it negate the bonus from a single cap injector, and with drones it does 508 DPS.. I'm not sure how well it would tank since this only has one LARII, a 1600mm plate, Damage Control II, and 3 EANM. I wasn't sure what to put in the last lowslot because of CPU limitations, but with a CPU boost it could easily have a HSII or whatever the pilot deems worthwile. -----sig-starts-here------ I survived Armageddon Day. I'm just too lazy to put a picture of a nuke in here.

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