| Pages: [1] :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Baalzaman
   |
Posted - 2007.11.24 22:26:00 -
[1]
Hi everyone. I am new to EVE but I have played a lot of mmorpgs in the past. I always seem to gravitate to trading, crafting, manufacturing, alchemy, etc. I played WOW for a while but I read a forum post about EVE and it got me really interested. So I started checking into this game. I sat down and read this forum for a few days, trying to figure out what the crafting side of EVE was like.
Whaaaaaa? sums ups my initial reaction. I was completely and totally lost. People seemed to be speaking in a foreign language. I kept seeing people discussing buy and sell orders, market fluctuations, taxes, IPO's, etc. I thought I was reading the wrong forum, it seemed more like real life than any game I had played.
So here I am. I've read through about 10 pages on this forum now and I'm skimming through posts further back than that. I hate asking for help in mmorpgs, I like figuring out everything on my own. It's just the way I am. I like to know every single thing about the game I play. From the combat system to the market dynamics. But it seems that just isn't possible in EVE, the game seems very complex.
I've managed to make a few million isk fiddling around in these newbie starting areas, picking up loot that I see and selling it on the market and killing some baddies. After a few days I realized I was selling my stuff to other traders and I figured out I should be placing my own buy orders. Then I sell the stuff for a profit. I also realized that I made my character totally wrong, so I made a new character with trade skills and int/mem atts. I deleted my first char which was a week old (which I now realize I should not have done, but too late now). Anyhow, I have about 35 million isk now.
Now that I've told about myself, I have a couple of questions.
My Questions (and I hope I am using the terms correctly):
1. What is the market or attitude of the players here about small IPO's, in the 200-500 million range?
2. Are short IPO's acceptable? It seems most of the ones I see are long term. What are the attitudes here about a 30-60 day IPO for example.
3. What are the chances that a new player such as myself would be able to start such an IPO?
Thanks in advance!
|
LaVista Vista
Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd
Zzz
|
Posted - 2007.11.24 22:44:00 -
[2]
Theres trading and theres public corporations(IPO's)
*Trading is done in the market window. Buy low, sell high. Quite simple.
*IPO's are investments done into people, to pay dividends to people.
So theres a major difference between the two. But it sounds like you got the idea with normal trading.
1. 200-500mill range can easily be filled by 1 person. And i know alot of people would do that. At least i like to see new people do really well :)
2. Theres no idea as i see it in short IPO's. Those i would see as loans.
3. Get used to the markets, find out where you can make a killing, but need fundings help. Start chatting in here. Write a damn good business plan.
|
Dark Shikari
Caldari
Imperium Technologies
Firmus Ixion
|
Posted - 2007.11.24 22:45:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Baalzaman
1. What is the market or attitude of the players here about small IPO's, in the 200-500 million range?
Ridiculously easy. Come up with a half-assed business plan and you'll most likely get money; the reason being that 200-500 million is pocket change, and people generally don't care about the few million they end up investing in such a venture; rather, they're more interested in seeing how good a job you do, and whether you'll be able to improve your skills to create larger IPOs in the future.
Originally by: Baalzaman
2. Are short IPO's acceptable? It seems most of the ones I see are long term. What are the attitudes here about a 30-60 day IPO for example.
Definitely... people like those also, as longer ones tend to burn out the people running them, while shorter ones have a very specific length and discourage speculation on share price (since they have a definite end).
Originally by: Baalzaman
3. What are the chances that a new player such as myself would be able to start such an IPO?
Very high, as long as you show that you are reasonably competent and have a decent business plan.
23 Member
EVE Video makers: save bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder! (updated) |
Baalzaman
|
Posted - 2007.11.24 22:58:00 -
[4]
Thank you both for your replies. I was not sure what to expect as these are my first posts on this forum. I notice sometimes things get a bit ruthless here, though it is quite fun to read 
It sounds positive so far though. I will have to collect my thoughts better and perhaps take a look at this template I've read about for IPO's.
A few more questions if you don't mind:
1. With this type of IPO should I offer fixed returns or variable? (I am thinking variable as I really don't have a clue how much I will make and it seems unfair to myself and people giving me their money to set a hard number that either I may not reach or I may exceed by a large margin respectively)
2. I believe people expect over 5% per month these days, some seem to want 10% or more, but what would people expect from a 1-2 month IPO?
3. Why is profit based on months? Is there any reason? (I notice almost every IPO paying out monthly. I would think in a short IPO that I should pay out more frequently to make up for the short term)
|
LaVista Vista
Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd
Zzz
|
Posted - 2007.11.24 23:07:00 -
[5]
1. Id do variable. Fixed can hurt you badly
2. For 1-2 month, id do 1 payout actually. Basically trade for 2 months, then sell everything, and pay that out. That will make 100% + whatever you made
3. Because of the rate at which some markets go. For some things, 2 week/payout works(rawcola), for some things(capital ships), 1 months is better, because thats about the time it takes to produce and sell them.
|
Matalino
Gallente
Ki Tech Industries
|
Posted - 2007.11.24 23:19:00 -
[6]
Given that this is a learning experience for you, I would recommend having a look at my original bond. It has a simple structure and a short to mid term scope: I expec to close it within a couple months.
One advantage of having a fixed return is that it makes repayment easier as you can use the excess profits to pay back the original capital.
The expected return is probably in the 6% - 10% per month range. Don't offer more than you can make just to get the shares to sell. Be reasonably pesimistic in your projections. Don't start making promises that you cannot keep.
With the amount that you are thinking about, you might want to drop Ricdic or Hexxx a note as they run a decent bank and have a history of helping smaller startups.
The reason that profit is based on months is that keeps things managable for larger corps. As you can see, my first bond is based on a weekly return, and my current one is based on bi-weekly returns as that is what works best for me. Even if you pay out more frequently, it helps to provide a comparison in terms of monthly returns as that is what most people are used to seeing.
**************************
Datacore Harvesting IPO |
FastLearner
Fury Holdings
Brutally Clever Empire
|
Posted - 2007.11.24 23:33:00 -
[7]
Edited by: FastLearner on 24/11/2007 23:33:45
Originally by: Baalzaman
Hi everyone. I am new to EVE but I have played a lot of mmorpgs in the past. I always seem to gravitate to trading, crafting, manufacturing, alchemy, etc. I played WOW for a while but I read a forum post about EVE and it got me really interested. So I started checking into this game. I sat down and read this forum for a few days, trying to figure out what the crafting side of EVE was like.
Whaaaaaa? sums ups my initial reaction. I was completely and totally lost. People seemed to be speaking in a foreign language. I kept seeing people discussing buy and sell orders, market fluctuations, taxes, IPO's, etc. I thought I was reading the wrong forum, it seemed more like real life than any game I had played.
So here I am. I've read through about 10 pages on this forum now and I'm skimming through posts further back than that. I hate asking for help in mmorpgs, I like figuring out everything on my own. It's just the way I am. I like to know every single thing about the game I play. From the combat system to the market dynamics. But it seems that just isn't possible in EVE, the game seems very complex.
I've managed to make a few million isk fiddling around in these newbie starting areas, picking up loot that I see and selling it on the market and killing some baddies. After a few days I realized I was selling my stuff to other traders and I figured out I should be placing my own buy orders. Then I sell the stuff for a profit. I also realized that I made my character totally wrong, so I made a new character with trade skills and int/mem atts. I deleted my first char which was a week old (which I now realize I should not have done, but too late now). Anyhow, I have about 35 million isk now.
Now that I've told about myself, I have a couple of questions.
My Questions (and I hope I am using the terms correctly):
1. What is the market or attitude of the players here about small IPO's, in the 200-500 million range?
2. Are short IPO's acceptable? It seems most of the ones I see are long term. What are the attitudes here about a 30-60 day IPO for example.
3. What are the chances that a new player such as myself would be able to start such an IPO?
Thanks in advance!
1. Small IPOs tend to either fill immediately or never get any ISK - depends how well you describe yourself and your plans.
2. if you plan to only pay out for a few months then really you're looking at issuing a bond not an IPO: you're intending to pay back investors (at a profit but not give them a long-term stake in your corporation/investment).
3. Pretty good. recent events have demonstrated somepeole will invest just if you say "I'm not scamming" convincingly. So if you actually have a plan you should be fine.
|
Shadarle
|
Posted - 2007.11.24 23:53:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Baalzaman
1. What is the market or attitude of the players here about small IPO's, in the 200-500 million range?
2. Are short IPO's acceptable? It seems most of the ones I see are long term. What are the attitudes here about a 30-60 day IPO for example.
3. What are the chances that a new player such as myself would be able to start such an IPO?
4. With this type of IPO should I offer fixed returns or variable? (I am thinking variable as I really don't have a clue how much I will make and it seems unfair to myself and people giving me their money to set a hard number that either I may not reach or I may exceed by a large margin respectively)
5. I believe people expect over 5% per month these days, some seem to want 10% or more, but what would people expect from a 1-2 month IPO?
6. Why is profit based on months? Is there any reason? (I notice almost every IPO paying out monthly. I would think in a short IPO that I should pay out more frequently to make up for the short term)
1. Small IPO's are very popular these days. Possibly higher risk (as the person is usually new and may not be experienced or smart enough to run it). Can pay out very well as the person is trying to prove themselves. I'm always looking for small IPO's that look promising to invest in.
2. Short IPO's are popular for the same reason small ones are. They get people a nice profit for a month or two or three and usually pay out higher than longer term IPO's. Again, I'm always looking for short term IPO's but there are not usually many to be found.
3. New players in general will have problems currently because of two recent scams (and one potential scam). You say you've read 10 pages of the forums, perhaps you could name these three for me? If you've indeed read a lot of these forums and took it all in then you've done far more than most new people starting IPO's seem to have done.
4. Variable is what I'd want as an investor. I don't trust new players to know what level of fixed return they can handle. So one offering a fixed return is usually guessing IMO. Plus variable leaves more room for you to shine in an early IPO.
5. I personally like 7-8%+ in IPO's I invest in. But with a new player or a risky investment I really look for higher still, 10%+. That said, I would rather you gave realistic numbers and didn't make stuff up. Be honest in all your projections and be conservative... better to pay out more than you projected than to pay out less.
6. There is no reason. As a new IPO I'd suggest either paying out in one lump sum as was suggested above or paying out weekly or bi-weekly. Monthly on a two month investment is kind of silly. I personally would love a weekly payout if I were to invest, others may find the book keeping easier on a lump sum payout.
You remind me a lot of myself, though you caught onto trading a lot faster than I did. Took me several months to get into it. I'm very impressed if you made 30+ mil in just a few weeks as it would seem based on your char age and the fact your first char was a week old.
I think the problem with you will be that whatever you offer is going to sell out too quickly. You're going to have people wanting to snatch up the entire thing instantly. This is fine if you just want the money to begin working with. I'd offer to give you some money right now if this is your goal. If your goal is to get experience with an IPO as well as to raise money and to make a name for yourself here then you may consider limiting the investment per person. More people investing in you means more people will remember your name if you do well.... and the more who will curse you if you screw up.
Tanking Setups Compared
Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained |
Meleil
|
Posted - 2007.11.24 23:54:00 -
[9]
If you show to have a good plan and strong skills. I'd be willing to front you enough isk to start off. Although chances are Ricdic will snatch the whole thing up if he gets wind of a good offering from you. 
~Mel
|
Baalzaman
|
Posted - 2007.11.25 00:01:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Meleil
If you show to have a good plan and strong skills. I'd be willing to front you enough isk to start off. Although chances are Ricdic will snatch the whole thing up if he gets wind of a good offering from you.
~Mel
I have noticed that he has done this before. He seems to be very helpful here from what I've read. But I sense that people do not always like him snatching everything up. Based upon your post and the one above yours I think I would rather let a few people have a chance to invest if they really think I am worthy of it. It would give me more confidence as well as I would know multiple people think my plan is worth going forward on.
I will begin writing up a plan of sorts, not sure when I will be done with it. I am working on some RL stuff tonight. Perhaps I'll have some spare time to write it up.
|
Dark Shikari
Caldari
Imperium Technologies
Firmus Ixion
|
Posted - 2007.11.25 00:09:00 -
[11]
I would suggest you make an IPO with a limitation on investment per person--perhaps 10m ISK. Otherwise, you'll get one or two people buying you out, and your successes will not get much publicity.
23 Member
EVE Video makers: save bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder! (updated) |
Meleil
|
Posted - 2007.11.25 00:17:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Meleil on 25/11/2007 00:17:13
Originally by: Dark Shikari
I would suggest you make an IPO with a limitation on investment per person--perhaps 10m ISK. Otherwise, you'll get one or two people buying you out, and your successes will not get much publicity.
Depending on the size of his IPO I'd agree. If it's 500 mil, then that's 50 investors he has to find. All his choice though. A limit equal to 5-10% of your offering per investor would be more ideal if you ask me.
~Mel
|
Matalino
Gallente
Ki Tech Industries
|
Posted - 2007.11.25 00:38:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Meleil
If you show to have a good plan and strong skills. I'd be willing to front you enough isk to start off. Although chances are Ricdic will snatch the whole thing up if he gets wind of a good offering from you.
~Mel
I wouldn't worry about that right now. Remember he just liquidated a bunch of assets for his own little project. That will probably keep him busy for a few weeks atleast.
**************************
Datacore Harvesting IPO |
Shadarle
|
Posted - 2007.11.25 03:17:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Baalzaman
I forgot to answer Shadarle's question. I have read nearly 20 pages on this forum now, but I've skipped some posts that seem to be repetitive. I am not sure if my answer will be correct. I wasn't taking notes when I read this forum expecting a test!
Based on your posts I do not know if you count Wylker's IPO as a scam or a potential scam. Rieth just made a post which apparently proves he is a scammer. I honestly can't recall the name of the 3rd scam, but I remember another being mentioned. It was someone who posted a bit and then disappeared perhaps into the army? I can't remember the name and can't remember which post it was in now. If you want I can keep looking until I figure out the name of the person.
Interesting, I expected my question to be lost in the shuffle conveniently. To top it off you remember some of the discussions about scams I've had. I'm mildly impressed. The name you were looking for was Blue Dice with NanoTechInc.
The only reason I'd question investing in this is because I hate making extremely tiny investments (under 100 mil). But I may make an exception in this case.
The fact you're getting such generally helpful and positive replies on the same day Riethe pulled his scam is in itself something you should be proud of Baal. (is the name from SG1?)
Tanking Setups Compared
Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained |
Baalzaman
|
Posted - 2007.11.25 19:22:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Baalzaman on 25/11/2007 19:23:37
Originally by: Shadarle
Interesting, I expected my question to be lost in the shuffle conveniently. To top it off you remember some of the discussions about scams I've had. I'm mildly impressed. The name you were looking for was Blue Dice with NanoTechInc.
The only reason I'd question investing in this is because I hate making extremely tiny investments (under 100 mil). But I may make an exception in this case.
The fact you're getting such generally helpful and positive replies on the same day Riethe pulled his scam is in itself something you should be proud of Baal. (is the name from SG1?)
Thanks for saving me the trouble of finding that name!
Ugh, this is going to be tricky to figure out how to handle an investment cap. It seems most want some sort of cap per person, but each wants it at a different level.
I have two questions:
1. How would providing shares at say 25 or 50 mil each work?
2. Do I actually have to start a corp up for this and make shares and all that? I really have 0 clue how to do that as I've not gotten into the corp creation parts of the game yet. Since I would be doing this fairly small scale (compared to other IPO's), could I just keep a spreadsheet list of investors. Hopefully between 5-10 investors? This is one reason I'd like to keep everyone investing relatively similar amounts (in quantities of 25/50/100 mil) or some such like I stated in question 1. Would people have real problems with this? Is there a specific reason to use shares for my sort of IPO?
Forgot to answer Shadarle. No not from Stargate. I watch Stargate but I got the name from the Wheel of Time series by Robert Jordan. Unfortunately the spelling is off as someone else had the spelling I wanted.
|
Ambo
2nd Outcasters
|
Posted - 2007.11.25 21:38:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Baalzaman
Edited by: Baalzaman on 25/11/2007 19:23:37
Thanks for saving me the trouble of finding that name!
Ugh, this is going to be tricky to figure out how to handle an investment cap. It seems most want some sort of cap per person, but each wants it at a different level.
I have two questions:
1. How would providing shares at say 25 or 50 mil each work?
2. Do I actually have to start a corp up for this and make shares and all that? I really have 0 clue how to do that as I've not gotten into the corp creation parts of the game yet. Since I would be doing this fairly small scale (compared to other IPO's), could I just keep a spreadsheet list of investors. Hopefully between 5-10 investors? This is one reason I'd like to keep everyone investing relatively similar amounts (in quantities of 25/50/100 mil) or some such like I stated in question 1. Would people have real problems with this? Is there a specific reason to use shares for my sort of IPO?
Forgot to answer Shadarle. No not from Stargate. I watch Stargate but I got the name from the Wheel of Time series by Robert Jordan. Unfortunately the spelling is off as someone else had the spelling I wanted.
1. You can assign shares whatever value you like. 1 mil per share is the most common amount used but there is no reason you can't use 25 or 50 mil.
2. It's pretty simple to create a corp and then you can create shares by holding a corporate vote. You certainly don't have to issue shares but it just nice to have them as an investor. 
|
Niedar
MASS
|
Posted - 2007.11.25 22:22:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Niedar on 25/11/2007 22:22:05
Edited by: Niedar on 25/11/2007 22:21:49
Originally by: Baalzaman
Edited by: Baalzaman on 25/11/2007 19:23:37
Forgot to answer Shadarle. No not from Stargate. I watch Stargate but I got the name from the Wheel of Time series by Robert Jordan. Unfortunately the spelling is off as someone else had the spelling I wanted.
Kind of offtopic but just wanted to say good series and also that I would be willing to invest and also agree there should be a cap on per person, i wont throw in any suggestions on the amount since you already have some and in end its your choice.
------------------
|
Marie deMedici
|
Posted - 2007.11.25 23:10:00 -
[18]
one option would be to auction the ipo out. If the amount of money you need is constant, divide it up to 25m slots or something and create a thread for people to bid ont he slots.
What they do is bid the minimum amount of interest they want for their investment. Naturally the bids start high, and get lower as people outbid each other. Once your reach a timelimit , you will take the 500m worth of lowest bidders and give them the highest interest that fit into the 500m or discard the whole deal if that is unacceptable.
|
Baalzaman
|
Posted - 2007.11.26 02:13:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Marie deMedici
one option would be to auction the ipo out. If the amount of money you need is constant, divide it up to 25m slots or something and create a thread for people to bid ont he slots.
What they do is bid the minimum amount of interest they want for their investment. Naturally the bids start high, and get lower as people outbid each other. Once your reach a timelimit , you will take the 500m worth of lowest bidders and give them the highest interest that fit into the 500m or discard the whole deal if that is unacceptable.
Very interesting. I have never heard of this being done before. If it has could you point me to the IPO? I don't think it really fits with my idea, but some of the forum regulars should think about doing this perhaps. I think I'd like to pay out a percentage of my profits... this is safe for me in-case RL gets in the way and my profits suffer. It is also good for my investors as I could double my money potentially. More risky, but that makes it much more fun!
|
Treelox
Amarr
Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party
|
Posted - 2007.11.26 02:53:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Baalzaman
Originally by: Marie deMedici
one option would be to auction the ipo out. If the amount of money you need is constant, divide it up to 25m slots or something and create a thread for people to bid ont he slots.
What they do is bid the minimum amount of interest they want for their investment. Naturally the bids start high, and get lower as people outbid each other. Once your reach a timelimit , you will take the 500m worth of lowest bidders and give them the highest interest that fit into the 500m or discard the whole deal if that is unacceptable.
Very interesting. I have never heard of this being done before. If it has could you point me to the IPO? I don't think it really fits with my idea, but some of the forum regulars should think about doing this perhaps. I think I'd like to pay out a percentage of my profits... this is safe for me in-case RL gets in the way and my profits suffer. It is also good for my investors as I could double my money potentially. More risky, but that makes it much more fun!
I believe that Ionia administered such a dutch auction for the CRA SPO. I am sure that Ricdic will chime in later on to confirm this. There was a thread about it in MD, but the auction actually took place in the Sell Orders part of the forums.
--
|
| |
|
| Pages: [1] :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |