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Sally
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Posted - 2004.03.06 01:23:00 -
[1]
... you enter local and people warp to a safe spot within of 30 seconds and log off.
... they log on back when you left the system.
How tensing! Thank you for this beatiful game of ultra consent PvP CCP.
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Stories: #1
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Synapse
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Posted - 2004.03.06 01:34:00 -
[2]
what else would you suggest ? forcing players to stay and fight? even if they outnumbered 2:1+ ?
Ask you self this :
would you fight a bship in a 1v1 or go into a fight where you are outnumbered unless you were pretty certain you could survive ? i thought not.
- + - + - + - + - + - + - + - + - + - + - + - + - + -
In a future where freedom is outlawed,
outlaws will become heros |
Negotiator Navy
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Posted - 2004.03.06 01:36:00 -
[3]
wouldnt log off, no...
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Lansfear
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Posted - 2004.03.06 01:39:00 -
[4]
Not much damage people can do to you with a full set of miners eh? Would you stick around and fight loaded for mining?
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Sally
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Posted - 2004.03.06 01:48:00 -
[5]
 Quote:
what else would you suggest ? forcing players to stay and fight? even if they outnumbered 2:1+ ?
Ask you self this :
would you fight a bship in a 1v1 or go into a fight where you are outnumbered unless you were pretty certain you could survive ? i thought not.
Ask yourself this:
Where is the risk in mining in 0.0 space rare ore with a Battleship and an Industrial when you have ultra lame radar like local chat and map and an auto log off with safe spot ability?
There is none.
In games like DAoC you get the best stuff in the crowded PvP areas (e.g. Darkness Falls, near keeps). You get the best skills (Realm Abilities) for PvPing. You can not log off while enemies are near or while you are fighting. Yet you can become level 50 without killing any single player and still have some fun and buy the rare stuff of the people who are PvPing. But if you go out and earn you some rare stuff you might get killed.
Some interesting features like deployable warp distruptors are not on the market or not in game (like cloaking devices or covert ops frigates).
To answer your question: Yes, I pick fights in bad odds and I sometimes lose ships to it, but sometimes I win such fights with luck and some skill and that's the best part of the game.
Lame radar and log off while earning the best ISK in game with no danger surely has nothing to do with luck or skill.
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Stories: #1
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Xelios
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Posted - 2004.03.06 01:58:00 -
[6]
To be fair though, it used to be much, much worse.
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Quinn Manaan
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Posted - 2004.03.06 02:00:00 -
[7]
Hm. Yeah -- seeing local chat doesn't help pirates much. Still, if you manage to warp-scramble 'em, you've got yourself set for a kill if they log off.
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Tsual
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Posted - 2004.03.06 03:01:00 -
[8]
Yep Sally in Daoc this was possible on the RvR servers, however there were areas where no danger from players was, none, null.
Eve imho is more like the PvP Daoc server? Did you play there freequently? And don't forget in Daoc you loose nothing compared to what you can loose in Eve (it became better with the standart 40% insurance)
As far as I could observe it the player numbers on the PvP server are relative low compared to the RvR servers. (My brother and his friend like to play on the pvp server, however for relaxation they went to the rvr server.)
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Tsual - Miner from faith, frigat junky for life.
Ritual of the Qua'nadhar. |
Ris Dnalor
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Posted - 2004.03.06 03:10:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Ris Dnalor on 06/03/2004 03:11:32
Quote:
what else would you suggest ? forcing players to stay and fight? even if they outnumbered 2:1+ ?
Ask you self this :
would you fight a bship in a 1v1 or go into a fight where you are outnumbered unless you were pretty certain you could survive ? i thought not.
no i wouldn't stay & fight, but I shouldn't automatically KNOW i'm going to get away. There should be some bloody risk, especially in lower security systems. If I'm not prepared to take the damb risk, then i have no business being in the forkin 0.0 space, now do I?
In other words the bad guy should have a chance of catching you, if he finds you alone in low sec space. period. Otherwise, make every system 1.0 security & put up anchorable targeting lock platforms that cover a radius of aproximately 1,000,000 AU, just to be sure you can't get hurt.
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Jump Drive Operation / Rank 5 / SP: 1280000 of 1280000
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Sally
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Posted - 2004.03.06 03:10:00 -
[10]
Quote:
Yep Sally in Daoc this was possible on the RvR servers, however there were areas where no danger from players was, none, null.
Yeah, I compare those areas with 1.0-0.5 and to some degree with 0.4-0.0 with sentries (empire space).
Quote:
Eve imho is more like the PvP Daoc server? Did you play there freequently? And don't forget in Daoc you loose nothing compared to what you can loose in Eve (it became better with the standart 40% insurance)
As far as I could observe it the player numbers on the PvP server are relative low compared to the RvR servers. (My brother and his friend like to play on the pvp server, however for relaxation they went to the rvr server.)
Yes, I have been playing on the european PvP server as well, numbers were going down there as on the U.S. ones, I think the nature of DAoCs PvP lies in fighting in the realms (what I see as 0.0 outside empire space in EVE) or keep warfare (player owned stations).
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Stories: #1
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Fester Addams
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Posted - 2004.03.06 08:29:00 -
[11]
Sally, rather than stating the obvious that people who cant defend themselves will try to flee, why not offer some constructive critisism.
How would you like it to work?
Atm you just come of as a big whiner who is upset because the game isnt easy on you, the word carebear springs instantly to mind...
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M0RIARTY
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Posted - 2004.03.06 09:28:00 -
[12]
I wouldnt log off, if it was 1v1 
Corp1=
Noo sig comming SOONÖ
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What are we going to do about all this ignorance and apathy?.... I don't know and I don't care! |
Falhofnir
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Posted - 2004.03.06 10:18:00 -
[13]
sally, i'd like to welcome you to the world of fleeing targets.
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Riddari
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Posted - 2004.03.06 10:33:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Riddari on 06/03/2004 10:35:49
Quote:
sally, i'd like to welcome you to the world of fleeing targets.
The fleeing targets being some infamous PVP-ers... often very vocal on fleeing "carebears".
P.S. Not a slight at Sally, haven't met her yet.
¼©¼
a history |
Lump Hammer
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Posted - 2004.03.06 11:25:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Lump Hammer on 06/03/2004 11:26:49
Edited by: Lump Hammer on 06/03/2004 11:26:29
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Zopyros
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Posted - 2004.03.08 08:18:00 -
[16]
Imagine that there would be a user setting that enable/disable your visibility in local chat room.
While disable you would not be seen in that channel nor would you be able to read what is said in that channel.
Would add an element of uncertainty, and would be more fare for pirates.
"normal" ppl couldn't see the pirates and pirates couldn't see the content of chat room to detarmine if someone have reported their presence.
-- Zopyros -- |
Hematic
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Posted - 2004.03.08 08:50:00 -
[17]
Eve has evolved the way it has due soley to people who cannot show self restraint. As in life.
One day a gaming company will build a game with the worst possible player in mind and work from there. That game will be more successful than the countless list of failures (including DAOC PvP servers).
The DAOC PvP server (only one now) runs maybe 1500 players out of say 22k? Why? Very simple, spawn in campers / greifers. People who have zero self moderation.
We have sentries in .4- because of m0o. We have 150km range thanks to SI, Zombie and the host of other bandwagoning wannabes.
Heck why do you think there are thousands of laws on the books in RL? Because a certain % of people will ALWAYS abuse the system no matter what. So we all suffer.
Create a system that takes that into account from day one and your at least on the right track.
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Severe McCald
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Posted - 2004.03.08 14:39:00 -
[18]
Quote:
Eve has evolved the way it has due soley to people who cannot show self restraint. As in life.
Heck why do you think there are thousands of laws on the books in RL? Because a certain % of people will ALWAYS abuse the system no matter what. So we all suffer.
The answer to paragrph 2 lies in paragraph 1. Politicians/Civil Servants/Devs cannot show self restraint in the face of one or two ppl behaving in a way that Politicians/Civil Servants/Devs don't like, so they keep introducing new laws/regulations/game restrictions. These do not work, because the one or two will always find another way to annoy the Politicians/Civil Servants/Devs and another load of restrictions get introduced.
When enough laws/regulations/game restrictions have been introduced, the system breaks down completely. The only way it can be made to work in the long run is through checks and balances operated by the people/players.
The Devs should just make unacceptable actions (Yulai) automatic and immediate kos (-10). Then leave it to players.
Severe
And Moses was content to dwell with the man:and he gave Moses Zipporah his daughter. And she bare him a son, and he called his name Gershom:for he said, I have been a stranger in a strange land. |
Dalmont Delantee
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Posted - 2004.03.08 15:08:00 -
[19]
Quote:
Quote:
Eve has evolved the way it has due soley to people who cannot show self restraint. As in life.
Heck why do you think there are thousands of laws on the books in RL? Because a certain % of people will ALWAYS abuse the system no matter what. So we all suffer.
The answer to paragrph 2 lies in paragraph 1. Politicians/Civil Servants/Devs cannot show self restraint in the face of one or two ppl behaving in a way that Politicians/Civil Servants/Devs don't like, so they keep introducing new laws/regulations/game restrictions. These do not work, because the one or two will always find another way to annoy the Politicians/Civil Servants/Devs and another load of restrictions get introduced.
When enough laws/regulations/game restrictions have been introduced, the system breaks down completely. The only way it can be made to work in the long run is through checks and balances operated by the people/players.
The Devs should just make unacceptable actions (Yulai) automatic and immediate kos (-10). Then leave it to players.
Severe
So you think that because 1 or two people murdering or doing worse things to people mean that politicans don't set laws? I think your agrument is totally invalid.
Take comfort in knowing that its probably some pimply faced twit, or 40 year old virgin, who gleens everytime mommy offfers to take them to needle point lessons |
slothe
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Posted - 2004.03.08 15:23:00 -
[20]
Quote:
... you enter local and people warp to a safe spot within of 30 seconds and log off.
... they log on back when you left the system.
How tensing! Thank you for this beatiful game of ultra consent PvP CCP.
sounds like most of the pirates our corp come across
Say hello on our forum @www.aserea.com
or join our public channel ingame "MLM Public"
http://www.khainestar.com/eve |
OmegaTron
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Posted - 2004.03.08 15:25:00 -
[21]
Edited by: OmegaTron on 08/03/2004 15:32:27
Edited by: OmegaTron on 08/03/2004 15:31:34
Edited by: OmegaTron on 08/03/2004 15:29:05
Quote:
... you enter local and people warp to a safe spot within of 30 seconds and log off.
... they log on back when you left the system.
How tensing! Thank you for this beatiful game of ultra consent PvP CCP.
what u r asking for "WILL" "NEVER" happen. besides if i don't want to fight 3vs1 odds exspecially if i know i will lose (hence the safe spots) I shouldn't be forced to.
Pirate hunters have the same problem u don't see them crying about it
Also do u really think your chances r any better trying to search every planet and moon if there was no such thing as safe spots? i think not. try again Pirate
P.S.
I'm not a carebear, i "DO" pvp "WHEN" i have my pvp set-up on and if the situation requires me to, u know that Sally, we met just the other day
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A Plague is comming.... |
Dekar
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Posted - 2004.03.08 15:34:00 -
[22]
....pirates warring other pirates!
Alas, such excitement and braveness is hardly seen anymore, as most of them lack both the creativity and the balls.
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Lying Scumbag |
Baun
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Posted - 2004.03.08 15:39:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Baun on 08/03/2004 15:40:41
Your point in general is fine Sally. It is still too easy for people to avoid a fight unless they are impatient enough, or have an urgent enough need to try to run a blockade. You yourself, however, utilize the same tactics that you are complaining about whenever you don't want to fight. I think your stand here would be more credible if I actually believed you wouldn't mind being ganked without anyway of knowing if someone was in the same system as you until they warped to you.
In any case, however, explain to me how any of your pirating would be effective if you did not have the map features/local chat yourselves? If you did not have map features you would not know if someone is in a system so you might over look it or go to it. If you did not have local chat you would not know someone was in the system you were in so you would have to resort to scanning and warping around to celestial objects, just to verify no one was in the system. Futhermore, you would have no idea if the ships you did find on the scanner actually had pilots in them. As such you would have to resort to simply camping bottleneck gates leading into and out of 0.0 space and you yourself would run a tremendous risk of running into far larger forces and getting ganked.
In the end though, you might be right that such changes would stimulate combat, but they would do so at the expense of limiting the ability of people within the game to interact with each other, which is still the main purpose of the local channel.
The Enemy's Gate is Down
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Harisdrop
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Posted - 2004.03.08 15:39:00 -
[24]
We are at war with a corp. A BS is sitting at a gate on the highway. He blasts one of our Indy's. I get in my celestis and lock and fire. He jumps.
This is the true problem. Its not that its not fair to the pirates, its the pirates dont want to play the same game.
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Garsh ma it soo cool killing people in there space thingies |
Severe McCald
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Posted - 2004.03.08 18:11:00 -
[25]
[quote
So you think that because 1 or two people murdering or doing worse things to people mean that politicans don't set laws? I think your agrument is totally invalid.
I take your "don't" to mean "should not". We have had laws against murder since before history began. Last year the UK government produced over 4000 new laws. And the year before that. And the year before that...etc.
I suspect most developed nations have the same problem. Everyone wants to be Moses.
Severe
And Moses was content to dwell with the man:and he gave Moses Zipporah his daughter. And she bare him a son, and he called his name Gershom:for he said, I have been a stranger in a strange land. |
Dalmont Delantee
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Posted - 2004.03.08 19:07:00 -
[26]
Quote:
[quote
So you think that because 1 or two people murdering or doing worse things to people mean that politicans don't set laws? I think your agrument is totally invalid.
I take your "don't" to mean "should not". We have had laws against murder since before history began. Last year the UK government produced over 4000 new laws. And the year before that. And the year before that...etc.
I suspect most developed nations have the same problem. Everyone wants to be Moses.
Severe
Sorry I wrote that at work trying to hide the fact I was reading the forum :P
But your argument is still invalid. 1 person starts using the internet to spread bad pron(sp) another uses it to spam people with sales of viagra...hence laws against it as in the first case its harmful and in the second case its an problem and an annoyance and we shouldn't suffer it.
Laws are there for a purpose and if people obeyed them there wouldn't be any problems, but the problem is people don't. Also new things appear that require new laws (I don't think 4000 years ago they had the internet for example) and they need to be made to cover that.
BTW I'm british too.
People also have a tendancy to copy other people. If CCP hadn't jumped in on the Yuilu(sp) incident it would have happened again, and again, and again but the 13 year olds.
Take comfort in knowing that its probably some pimply faced twit, or 40 year old virgin, who gleens everytime mommy offfers to take them to needle point lessons |
Jash Illian
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Posted - 2004.03.08 20:32:00 -
[27]
Quote:
Yep Sally in Daoc this was possible on the RvR servers, however there were areas where no danger from players was, none, null.
Eve imho is more like the PvP Daoc server? Did you play there freequently? And don't forget in Daoc you loose nothing compared to what you can loose in Eve (it became better with the standart 40% insurance)
And in Anarchy Online, there are areas where you're completely safe from PvP. One is in the cities, where you can do almost absolutely nothing to advance beyond the newbie levels. The mission terminals will start sending out into more dangerous areas, including PvP zones. And you cannot advance via tradeskills (hardcoded that you cannot gain the last piece of xp to level via tradeskills).
The other areas, the 75% gas zones are also PvP less. Mostly because that'd be overkill. The NPCs are fully capable of whipping the crap out of players, even when the player is much higher in level than the npc by using social aggro (nothing like a pack of npcs 100 lvls below you beating the crap out of you so your head doesn't swell). Some areas are completely locked off for people under their levels. Without equipment that you cannot get at low levels, the environment itself will kill you.
As for the death penalty, I've actually thought about that. And it's hard to say if AO's death penalty is actually less than Eve's. In AO, you can only lose XP that you've gained since last scan point (which is entirely up to you) or since the last time you levelled. There have been nights when I've played for 2-3 hours and made absolutely 0 progress. Dying reversed every single point of XP I gained since logging in and starting to play. And considering how often and how easy it is to die there, I've prolly lost several months worth of playing time since starting.
How much have I lost in Eve? A pittance. 2 Battleships (Tempest and Typhoon), 5 cruisers (all Ruptures and 3 of those to bugs, 2 involving Concord  ) and 2-3 Rifters (not sure about the third one as I think I've simply forgotten where I've left it).
What about in PvP? What can you lose during PvP in AO? At the individual level, you can lose your PvP rank title. Which is about the only reason to PvP as an individual there. At the organizational level?
1) You can lose your base, several million worth of structures (1 million credits is about as hard to earn as 10m isk here). Some of those structures buildable using components only availible by quests.
2) You can lose your abilities. Bases buff attributes and skills for the owner of the structure and every member of the organization. Some abilities have requirements so high, people depend on the boosts their bases give to perform high level tradeskills (including constructing some of the base's structures) and use high level abilities.
3) You can lose the ability to use the equipment you're currently using, or at least it's full effectiveness. Same thing as above. Several people depend on the towers their organization owns to boost their skills to meet the requirements to equip items. It's arguable some items cannot be used without a base to boost the skills to high enough levels. And if you do manage to equip something and fail to maintain high enough skill to use it (ie: another org knocks down your base), it begins taking penalties. Or unequips itself.
Yeah, Eve seems to have a high death penalty compared to other games. But that may only be in appearance as the loss of time over time balances out. But there's one thing I do know:
Every loss I've taken in Eve is either through my own blatant carelessness (going afk while in mid-warp to a roid belt is not recommended), to bugs (yah, CONCORD was supposed to destroy my ship for participating in the destruction of a person that attacked me first) or through actions of my own choosing. Without the bugs, carelessness or my choice? I'd never have taken a single loss.
In AO fighting npcs below my level, which the system itself states "Killing it will be relatively easy"? I've died hundreds of times through no fault of my own or the system. The npcs just had better numbers or better rolls. And ganked by players? Heh...the developers there adamantly refused to remove mission entrances that were inside PvP zones.
So what's the point? AO, a primarily PvE game with strong PvP mechanics at the organizational level, is extremely high in risk from PvE and can have extremely high losses at the organizational PvP level. Eve, a primarily PvP game (npc corps and drones present little orrisk to the activities of players), has almost no risk whatsoever.
And in time lost, as that's all dying in either game means? I've 'died' 9 times in Eve, recovering from which took almost no time (started to manufacture a tempest immediately after Keenon destroyed my Tyhpoon). In AO? It'd take a developer to datamine the # of times I've died and how much time was lost.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
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