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Ganja
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Posted - 2004.03.06 18:10:00 -
[1]
This thread has the intention of suggesting ideas to fine-tune passive skill training, as it was turned off pre-castor due to abuse.
Why do I feel it should be turned back on? Simple. Currently a player who powergames EVE for over 40 hours a week, benefits no more then a player who logs on once a day for 5 minutes to train a new skill.
What is passive skill training? Well incase you weren't informed of it, as it was an unknown *extra* in game design - its this:
Doing certain actions in space/in station would give you anywhere between 60-180 skill points, averaging of around 120. You would only earn skill points in the primary required skill for that object. The minimum intervul of earning passive skill points was at 4 minutes. People who abused this great little tool earned themselves a whopping extra million skill points (and then some) in a month.
IE:
Putting a cargo expander onto your ship would boost your skill points in Mechanic. This is also why so many people earned Mechanic V without training it past II.
Docking your thorax would earn you skill points in Gallente Cruiser.
Using your afterburner in space would earn you skill points in Afterburner.
My suggestion for not only fixing it so it can't be abused, but implement a function so for newer players who are joining the game will not be left behind the people who have 12,000,000 skill points already and counting.
Essentially, base the amount of passive skill points you earn on the amount of skill points you already have.
As a new player you would earn passive skill points out the wazzoo up until you hit about a million skill points, and then passive learning would start to decrease. A player who is at 12 million skill points would notice miniscule results, as he is experienced and ahead of the game.
With this turned back on, and possibly in this fashion; not only would you benefit from actually playing CCP's game, but newer players have a chance amongst us beta players.
Maybe CCP has some plan they intend to throw in when the average population is at 16m skill points.. who knows.
This is mearly my idea on the matter.. now I want yours.
Keep it friendly ;)
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Tyrrax Thorrk
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Posted - 2004.03.06 18:21:00 -
[2]
An excellent idea. One I hope CCP will put into effect in one form or another.
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Demiurge Ialdaboth
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Posted - 2004.03.06 18:22:00 -
[3]
I like this idea. Finetuning would of course be needed, but Ganja has already explained how this could be done without veterans (who already have massive skills) abusing it. It would help us new players to advance faster and actually be able to compete without having to play for six months first.
I am however concerned about this also applying to alts as it could potentially allow powergamers to have several high end characters.
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Dirus
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Posted - 2004.03.06 18:24:00 -
[4]
There would need to be measures taken to prevent people just activating modules, then taking them off repeatibly, gaining free skill points.
**********
Everyone deserves to die.
You go first.
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Raem Civrie
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Posted - 2004.03.06 18:24:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Raem Civrie on 06/03/2004 18:25:57
I like the idea.
Dirus, they might put a cap into it. I.e. it only counts every thirty minutes
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Ganja
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Posted - 2004.03.06 18:29:00 -
[6]
 Quote:
I am however concerned about this also applying to alts as it could potentially allow powergamers to have several high end characters.
That too is a thought - so lets mold it, shall we?
As I said in my idea, the more skill points you have, the less you earn.
Now lets spread that across the board. The more skill points one of your characters has, decreases the amount of passive skill points any of your other characters earn.
If character A has 10m skill points, Character B and C lose 50% of their passive bonuses.
If character A has 10m skill points, and Character B has 5m, then Character C loses 75% of their passive bonuses.
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Ganja
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Posted - 2004.03.06 18:31:00 -
[7]
Quote:
Dirus, they might put a cap into it. I.e. it only counts every thirty minutes
Instead of putting a cap on it, I think they should remove this particular bonus out all together.
Throwing a module on your ship and logging off is not playing the game.. mearly preperation for your next module activation.
The bonuses should be more playing entailed, etc.
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Shaqan
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Posted - 2004.03.06 18:43:00 -
[8]
this should be implemented again indeed. the more skillpoints u have, the less points u get from doing actions which gives u "xp". also, add a timeout, as mantioned before, so that u can't sit in space activating a module over and over again to gain XP. 30 mins sounds fine to me, after all, ppl who have played this game for a while should have an advantage.
Disclaimer: above text is written to express my thoughts about this subject, and are not an attack on anybody. Spelling errors may occur frequently, and will always do, please do not comment -i know. |
Ordo Abchao
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Posted - 2004.03.06 19:03:00 -
[9]
An alternate (or combined) idea would be to add another multiplier to the skill training,such as a 1.00005x increase in training speed while doing a certain action/ having a certain module equiped with a deminishing return.
Also giving an aloted amount of increased skill training time would help reduce the risk of abuse.
Order out of Chaos |
Cirle
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Posted - 2004.03.07 16:19:00 -
[10]
There are all sorts of things you could do to reward active players, for example enable secondary skill training only while logged on and active (for sufficient definition of active). However, any system like this would benefit the older players as well, many of whom are still around and actively playing more than new players at a guess.
However, it raises the point slightly of whether (a) a new player is meant to be able to compete with someone who has played for eight months or so, and thus (b) at what point is a player meant to be able to compete. It would be interesting to know what the churn in the three to six month range is...
Addressing the passive skill training for new players, why? Yes, it is nice to have a reward, but it is nice to have a reward after eight months as well; the difference being after that time you probably have a lot of the skills you need. If new players are so disadvantaged, give them bonus points after a time or when they pass certain milestones... but again, the question is, what exactly do these players need? It is my suspicion that the majority of the game can be accessed and played within a month or two by standard skill training. So, you do not have MechEng II, and others do because they realised it was being rewarded (it happened when you launched and docked, btw, not only when you enabled the module). So you lose 10% structure and 5% armour; is this going to stop you playing? No. Does it mean you need to work with people and think about tactics? Maybe.
Sorry, waffling... the hauling is particularly slow today ;)
Cirle
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Black 5
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Posted - 2004.03.07 16:59:00 -
[11]
Indeed I think it should be brought back and tuned aswell.
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Athule Snanm
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Posted - 2004.03.08 13:04:00 -
[12]
I don't know, the way I see it there are three things in EVE which define how powerful you are:
1. Skill points (and how you've spread them)
2. ISK (and the equipment you've spent money on or collected from kills)
3. Personal (ie real) experience in knowing what to do and how to do it.
A player who logs in for 5 minutes once or a day (or even less often as they go up the skill levels) may have no disadvantage on point 1, but they'll surely be far behind on points 2 and 3.
Apart from the '21st Century Elite' aspect to the game the thing that appealed to me about EVE was that you couldn't simply click on an asteroid a million times and have the edge over everyone that doesn't want to play that way. Agent running already is a bit of a treadmill in EVE but at least it's only one part of the game, adding 'passive learning' would turn EVE into just another MMORPG as it would apply to the entire game.
As to giving new players a headstart - most older players (I started in May a few days into when the game came out) have a lot of skill points spread out in numerous categories that they no longer use. Currently a new player has much more of an advantage in terms of advice and information to draw on and I personally believe this more than evens out the situation.
Currently I can spend an hour or two a day pottering around in EVE, or I can miss a few days without feeling guilty about being left behind - if that changed to being forced to play at a frantic and constant rate to keep up I'm afraid a trip to eBay would be the most likely end-result for me.
_______________________________
Doomheim - EVE's only hygiene! |
Scorpyn
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Posted - 2004.03.08 13:19:00 -
[13]
Suggestions for modification of the original idea:
Don't decrease the speed of learning depending of the total skillpoints the character have, decrease it depending on the level of the skill that is being increased. Or make a 6th level that can only be achieved through autotraining.
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Ganja
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Posted - 2004.03.10 02:02:00 -
[14]
Don't let this thread die..
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Isil'Zha
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Posted - 2004.03.11 12:03:00 -
[15]
How about they make it a new learning skill??
a higher % or other multiplier to the passive training??? Any ideas about this.
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DHU InMe
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Posted - 2004.03.13 01:47:00 -
[16]
Quote:
I don't know, the way I see it there are three things in EVE which define how powerful you are:
1. Skill points (and how you've spread them)
2. ISK (and the equipment you've spent money on or collected from kills)
3. Personal (ie real) experience in knowing what to do and how to do it.
A player who logs in for 5 minutes once or a day (or even less often as they go up the skill levels) may have no disadvantage on point 1, but they'll surely be far behind on points 2 and 3.
Apart from the '21st Century Elite' aspect to the game the thing that appealed to me about EVE was that you couldn't simply click on an asteroid a million times and have the edge over everyone that doesn't want to play that way. Agent running already is a bit of a treadmill in EVE but at least it's only one part of the game, adding 'passive learning' would turn EVE into just another MMORPG as it would apply to the entire game.
As to giving new players a headstart - most older players (I started in May a few days into when the game came out) have a lot of skill points spread out in numerous categories that they no longer use. Currently a new player has much more of an advantage in terms of advice and information to draw on and I personally believe this more than evens out the situation.
Currently I can spend an hour or two a day pottering around in EVE, or I can miss a few days without feeling guilty about being left behind - if that changed to being forced to play at a frantic and constant rate to keep up I'm afraid a trip to eBay would be the most likely end-result for me.
Agree.
I would 't not mind if passive don't go more than 10%skill pts/week.
Still powerplayer earn a lot of $ and playing experience that even old player that have less than 5-10h per week can't match that easily.
Nice links (updated 20 Dec 04):
BP, bugs about them.
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way. |
Silverlancer
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Posted - 2004.03.15 09:17:00 -
[17]
No secondary online skill training. That would make people just leave their comps on.
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Ganja
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Posted - 2004.03.15 15:15:00 -
[18]
Quote:
No secondary online skill training. That would make people just leave their comps on.
You don't get skill points for just sitting in a hangar..
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Marge
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Posted - 2004.03.16 20:23:00 -
[19]
IMHO I think its good the way it is, no need for extra skill training
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Gariuys
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Posted - 2004.03.16 20:46:00 -
[20]
It's fine as is, it could be better if there was a small skillpoint advantage for those that actually play the game. after a couple of months ISK is irrelevant, but skillpoints aren't.
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
GrendelPrime
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Posted - 2004.03.17 01:47:00 -
[21]
Quote:
after a couple of months ISK is irrelevant, but skillpoints aren''t.
so true...
"Though you may die, do not give up your honor"
-- Miyamoto Musashi
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Achec
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Posted - 2004.03.18 22:34:00 -
[22]
People are also forgetting thats what implants are for, for instance, it is very hard for a causal player to get a full head of implants (especially standard and when they start implimenting the advanced, eliet etc.) and that gives an edge in skill gaining.
If I'm correct eleit will be +8 bonus, which will be HUGE boost to anyone with them (as long as they dont get killed  )
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Achec
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Posted - 2004.03.18 22:37:00 -
[23]
Quote:
Quote:
after a couple of months ISK is irrelevant, but skillpoints aren''t.
so true...
Not for causal players (I being one of them who doesnt have a computer at hand all the time to play and macro mine or a battleship to chain rats)
(any corps with constant big minning operations that need a hauler feel free to msg me in game  ..im poor although ive been playing the game for 3months)
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