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Selling GTC = Hiring Farmers

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Guillame Herschel Gallente Cheers Restaurant and Bar Coalition Of Empires	Posted - 2007.11.27 21:17:00 - [1] This isn't a gripe. This isn't a whine. This isn't a complaint. This is an epiphany. And I might ramble a bit, so bear with me. I was listening to allies talk on Vent last night, and they were talking about obtaining enough ME datacores to invent the new ships that are coming. I have an invention alt (just one) I've been training to do that too, so it was very interesting to hear what someone else was doing to get an adequate supply. They're farming them with purpose-built research alts, of course. But that wasn't what elicited the epiphany. This is probably a small-time operation compared to what some other people do, but this player has four or five research alts, and he spent months getting them to ME level 5 and grinding their standings to level 4 R&D agents for ME and the racial starship agents too, by running courier missions with the alts. Once they were trained, he transferred them into one or two accounts, and now pays for those accounts by selling some of the ME datacores the alts generate and buying GTC. None of this should be surprising to anyone that has been paying attention. Now on to the epiphany: I learned while listening to this conversation that the price at which GTC can be obtained is the most significant factor that determines the price he must charge for the ME datacores, in order for his operation to be a net gain, instead of a loss. It seems pretty obvious now that this must be so, but the indirection of using GTC as intermediaries for purchasing in-game items tends to obscure the relationship. If ME datacores, or Isk, or any other game item were able to be purchased directly for cash, the relationship would be open and obvious. Essentially, GTC are Linden dollars with a layer of indirection so you aren't directly purchasing in-game items like you do in Second Life. The indirection allows us to pretend that we're making a living in game. But the game is balanced to account for GTC sales. The build requirements for invention, including how many datacores are needed for a particular job, or the mineral requirements of a MOM, are determined with GTC sales and farmers in mind. That is why it is so difficult for a single character to earn enough ME datacores, and many other "bottleneck" items like the four salvage circuits, by himself. I have often wondered why, with so many different types of salvage items, do almost all rigs use one or more of those four circuits. Creating a supply bottleneck that requires farming salvage to overcome is the reason it is that way. Farmers buy GTC. GTC sales are income for CCP. More need for farming leads to more GTC sales. So if you want to make it big alone, you must farm with multiple alts. If you don't want to go it alone, you must band together and pool resources, you know, with your corporation and alliance. And if you can't bear the grind of months of courier missions, day after day in boring Empire, you can hire someone to grind for you an pay in GTC. The game is balanced with all this in mind, and that's why so many things seem insurmountably difficult for one player to accomplish, like keeping just a modest T2 invention operation running profitably. It's cheaper to buy a T2 ship every now and then, than to build one for yourself every now and then. Small scale industrial operators have to be doing it because they like it. It certainly isn't profitable to invent T2 frigates, for example, not this year anyway with that big up-front investment in the ship interface and skills. Only the big operations with farming alts have a prayer of operating at a gain in a timely manner, producing isk they can use for other purposes. The rest of us can just sell them GTC so they farm on our behalf, sparing us the grind. That's how I see it anyway. And I don't feel "guilty" about selling GTC, even though some people look down on that practice. I am paying people to farm for me. It's quite clear now that this is how this game is supposed to work. -- Guile can always trump hardware --
Jenny Spitfire Caldari	Posted - 2007.11.27 21:26:00 - [2] I think it is fine. There are players who are rich in RL but poor in time and players who are poor in RL but rich in time. Quite balance to be honest. They have time to play and we give them GTCs and they give us ISKs. Fair and square. :) --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Kali is for KArebearLIng. I 100% agree with Avon. Female EVE gamers? Mail Zajo or visit WGOE.Public in-game.
Cleric Hammond	Posted - 2007.11.27 21:29:00 - [3] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire I think it is fine. There are players who are rich in RL but poor in time and players who are poor in RL but rich in time. Quite balance to be honest. They have time to play and we give them GTCs and they give us ISKs. Fair and square. :) I agree 100% with the above statement.
Richard Phallus	Posted - 2007.11.27 21:31:00 - [4] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire I think it is fine. There are players who are rich in RL but poor in time and players who are poor in RL but rich in time. Quite balance to be honest. They have time to play and we give them GTCs and they give us ISKs. Fair and square. :) As long as CCP gets it's cut, exactly. Keeps the servers humming.
Tammarr Trident RMBK	Posted - 2007.11.27 21:32:00 - [5] Originally by: Cleric Hammond Originally by: Jenny Spitfire I think it is fine. There are players who are rich in RL but poor in time and players who are poor in RL but rich in time. Quite balance to be honest. They have time to play and we give them GTCs and they give us ISKs. Fair and square. :) I agree 100% with the above statement. I agree 100% with the above speakers and as a side dish this makes the new jenny... likeable =) Nerfing carriers and most everything nice for a t2 freighter that should be tier 2 isnt balancing ccp :(
Cleric Hammond	Posted - 2007.11.27 21:33:00 - [6] Originally by: Richard Phallus Originally by: Jenny Spitfire I think it is fine. There are players who are rich in RL but poor in time and players who are poor in RL but rich in time. Quite balance to be honest. They have time to play and we give them GTCs and they give us ISKs. Fair and square. :) As long as CCP gets it's cut, exactly. Keeps the servers humming. Actually the servers are hamster powered so they dont hum they squeak... or whatever sound hamsters make.

ISD Santiago Cortes Caldari ISD Interstellar Correspondents	Posted - 2007.11.27 22:01:00 - [7] At the level of work and speed required the hamsters make some very interesting sounds. forum rules \| mailto:[email protected]

Moghydin Confederation of Red Moon Red Moon Federation	Posted - 2007.11.27 22:49:00 - [8] Edited by: Moghydin on 27/11/2007 22:49:28 Very nice post from the OP. May be wrong on details, but the main theme is spot on: IN ORDER TO SUCCEED IN EVE BIG TIME YOU NEED MULTIPLE ALTS. Now, may be someone comes in and says that he can do with 1 account what other ppl do with 5, may be it is true, but it is an exception. The rule is: if you don't want to check your wallet when you buy your next ship, better prepare those farming alts. Press alt+F4 to reduce lag
Stakhanov The Good Fellas	Posted - 2007.11.28 01:03:00 - [9] "Success" in Eve is all relative. In my view , if you need multiple accounts or selling GTCs to pay for your pvp ships , you fail at Eve.
Aseite Lodis	Posted - 2007.11.28 01:29:00 - [10] Yes it does create sort of a feedback loop. And is probably the reason why CCP doesn't ban the ISK farmers. They are running multiple accounts to farm ISK and are paying to CCP for subscription meanwhile. It is when they get to the selling of ISK that they begin to compete with CCP's own sale of codes and that's when CCP takes actions against them doing such things as trying to trace the accounts that advertise various websites in game to the ISK selling characters, banning the sellers and removing ISK from the buyers. But the swarms of macro-miners and achura 0.0 raven ratters and mission runners that get petitioned every day? They leave them to their farming. As for me, I have figured a way to make enough ISK without substantial grind - 320 mil per hour spent playing with two characters that have less than 1 million skill points each. Few days pay for all of my accounts, and extra revenue goes into enjoying other aspects of the game. I'm happy as long as there are people who either haven't discovered that they can do same, or think that even a few hours each week is a huge grind, or aren't satisfied making several billion ISK per week. They choose to spend their money on game time codes and pay for my game. I have absolutely no complaints about this matter.
Celeste Coeval The Gosimer and Scarab	Posted - 2007.11.28 01:45:00 - [11] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire I think it is fine. There are players who are rich in RL but poor in time and players who are poor in RL but rich in time. Quite balance to be honest. They have time to play and we give them GTCs and they give us ISKs. Fair and square. :) Agreed Originally by: Death Kill Go travel or live in the rainforest if neccesary, just dont turn to religion as its a cul de sac.
Malcanis High4Life SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.28 02:13:00 - [12] "The build requirements for invention, including how many datacores are needed for a particular job, or the mineral requirements of a MOM, are determined with GTC sales and farmers in mind." Proof? CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Masheine	Posted - 2007.11.28 02:23:00 - [13] OP understands what the second "M" is for in "MMO", right? As do, hopefully, the other players insisting you need alts. "Only acheivable by corporations" may sort of be the point. Pushing the game to stress that second M, unlike a lot of other MMO's that don't really stress either M. Of course, given how few of my MMO friends play Eve (apart from friends I've made within Eve), the point about needing alts becomes valid again.

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