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Dreth Krasen
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Posted - 2007.11.28 00:30:00 -
[1]
I use to fly a pilgrim but I sold it before the nos changes went into effect. Those of you who are still flying them, how are they performing? What setups are you guys using? Please only respond if you fly a pilgrim currently and have something to contribute. Thanks.
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Khan Durian
Amarr
Phoenix Pirates
Mass Destruction.
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Posted - 2007.11.28 00:40:00 -
[2]
I dont fly one, but from what ive been hearing, ever since the nos nerf their effectiveness has gone down. This is due to the fact taht they lack a range bonus on nos/neuts and have to be pretty close to the enemy allowing them to get webbed. Furthermore, this means that you'll have to work on an armor tanked defense, which is not that great in itself. In addition, you have to pick your targets very carefully.
Like i said i dont fly one, but those are my impressions on it
 Originally by: Graalum
also its called a damage control. Not a suitcase.
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Ph'arek
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Posted - 2007.11.28 00:46:00 -
[3]
The web and armor tanking issue doesn't really seem to be anything new though since it has always had to operate inside web range and I really can't see doing anything other than armor tanking this ship.
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Khan Durian
Amarr
Phoenix Pirates
Mass Destruction.
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Posted - 2007.11.28 00:54:00 -
[4]
well with the nos nerf, these previous slight drawbacks have been exemplified i would say. By utilizing neuts, its harder to keep an armor tank running. But yeah, ill let the experts decide on this one. I got no clue
Originally by: Graalum
also its called a damage control. Not a suitcase.
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Hardtail
Red Dawn Empire
Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.11.28 01:26:00 -
[5]
The pilgrim was useful...?
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StinkFinger
Caldari
State War Academy
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Posted - 2007.11.28 01:38:00 -
[6]
Nope, it's garbage.
Originally by: Karanth
That's like sitting on your hand till it goes numb, so it's like a stranger. It's not as satisfying, and I'LL know the difference.
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ChimeraRouge
Caldari
Eve University
Ivy League
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Posted - 2007.11.28 01:42:00 -
[7]
The pilgrim looks like it can still beat things 1v1 so it's fine as it is.
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Crazy Tasty
Beyond Divinity Inc
Terra Incognita.
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Posted - 2007.11.28 01:50:00 -
[8]
They are pretty broken atm, can still be useful but only for niche situations.
Basically anything that can cap boost with some tank will beat you, for example, I took one out in a thorax. A corp mate uses them for getting close to solo targets for a quick point or killing smaller stuff.
My personal experience in one is its an expensive wreak if you meet anything bigger than a cruiser, or multiple targets.
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Xequecal
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Posted - 2007.11.28 04:53:00 -
[9]
Originally by: ChimeraRouge
The pilgrim looks like it can still beat things 1v1 so it's fine as it is.
It can beat things 1v1.....as long as they don't have an injector, or a web, or a heavy neut, or use missiles, or heavy drones, or heavy nos.
Oh, and it'll still take you 5+ minutes to kill anything and if your target can find a friend in pretty much anything in that time, you're also dead. Unlike the other recons, you have to get in close which means you can't just disengage when something else shows up.
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Kain De'Stroi
Epic.
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Posted - 2007.11.28 05:25:00 -
[10]
ya, amarr sucks, and the pilgrim even got bonus for it.
now drop prices on them more. please
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Boost Amarr and I will conquer the Universe - you been warned |
Feng Schui
Minmatar
The Ninja Coalition
Drunken N Disorderly
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Posted - 2007.11.28 05:58:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Crazy Tasty
They are pretty broken atm, can still be useful but only for niche situations.
Basically anything that can cap boost with some tank will beat you, for example, I took one out in a thorax. A corp mate uses them for getting close to solo targets for a quick point or killing smaller stuff.
My personal experience in one is its an expensive wreak if you meet anything bigger than a cruiser, or multiple targets.
and those "niche" situations are going bye bye when scripts are introduced \o/
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Forge Seer
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Posted - 2007.11.28 09:16:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Feng Schui
Originally by: Crazy Tasty
They are pretty broken atm, can still be useful but only for niche situations.
Basically anything that can cap boost with some tank will beat you, for example, I took one out in a thorax. A corp mate uses them for getting close to solo targets for a quick point or killing smaller stuff.
My personal experience in one is its an expensive wreak if you meet anything bigger than a cruiser, or multiple targets.
and those "niche" situations are going bye bye when scripts are introduced \o/
Sorry to sound like a complete noob, but what are 'scrips'?
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Feng Schui
Minmatar
The Ninja Coalition
Drunken N Disorderly
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Posted - 2007.11.28 11:15:00 -
[13]
Take the 'Balmer' Tracking Disruptor.
TQ Ewar-Stats (taken from EFT since tq is down atm):
Optimal Range: -46%
Tracking Speed: -46%
Sisi Ewar-Stats:
Optimal Range: -20.1%
Tracking Speed: -20.1%
Now, you can load a script into the module, which will boost 1 of the stats, while lowering the other. Ex: A Tracking Speed Disruption script will give the following:
Optimal Range: 0
Tracking Speed: 40.2%
Not much of a difference for unbonused ships with pilots not hard core spec'd into them, but a VERY, VERY noticeable difference when using a pilgrim + weapon disruption 4 + turret destabalization 4 (ie: they don't freaking work anymore).
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Cailais
Amarr
W A R
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Posted - 2007.11.28 12:22:00 -
[14]
The pilgrim is on its last legs, the nos nerf coupled with TD nerf makes this ship significantly less useful than its peer group.
Because Nos only work if your opponent has more cap than you, then by definition your opponent has enough cap to repair your limited damage.
If you use neuts, then (hopefully) your opponent has less cap than you (at which point any nos you have fitted become worthless). However the cap demands on the pilgrim are so high that very quickly neither ship has cap: its then a race between armor/shield hps and dps.
While the pilgrim can manage a reasonable armor hp level its dps is feeble and its almost certain to loose this race.
Those problems are bad, making the issue worse however is that the pilgrim must remain inside web and warp disruption range so if using nos its likely to be webbed (slower and thus easier to hit) and scrambled and hence unable to flee as the other recons can if 'things go wrong'.
So, if youre nossing you'll still be webbed, scrammed and fully commited - whilst not doing very much damage.
If youre neuting you'll be out of cap (pretty soon) so you can't web, scram or repair or run your TDs.
Why not use nos and neuts! 
A common misconception is that 1 nos + 1 neut = the old pre nerf nos. It doesnt.
Your nos doesnt replace enough cap to run the neut, and once your opponents cap is down your nos does nothing. Its very difficult to judge when a opponent is out of 'cap' so you can easily switch your neut off too late (and run out of cap yourself) or too early (as the target replens cap - often via a cap injector).
Can the pilgrim destroy ships? Yes - its not totally useless. Is there an alarmingly high probability that you pilgrim will be destroyed in said battle - Yes.
C.
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Dehumanisation - griefers are cool and if you are not a griefer, you do not belong here.
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Shevar
Minmatar
A.W.M
Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2007.11.28 13:13:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Ph'arek
The web and armor tanking issue doesn't really seem to be anything new though since it has always had to operate inside web range and I really can't see doing anything other than armor tanking this ship.
This wasn't a big issue back in the day when you could use a dual rep nos boat. Now you can't use it though since you will run out of cap and your opponent won't.
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-The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs |
Thargorr
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2007.11.28 13:54:00 -
[16]
Hey, Corwain here. I'm posting on my probe alt cause my account is inactive till payday tomorrow at midnight. Although the Pilgrim is in pretty bad shape, I've recently managed to solo NPCing BSes with my new super-secret setup that I'm not sharing with anyone. Still it's pretty tough and in they've got a cap injector or backup arrives immediately you're pretty screwed. It'll be lots harder once the TD nerf comes, though if I set my scripts to just disrupt tracking of most things and range for blasterboats (unless they get me inside 500m) it could still work. I find it very hard to have enough EWar and propulsion fitted to keep myself safe. I remember the old days of being able to pack an AB, scram, web, 2x td and a multi ECM. Now I'm pretty much limited to either AB/MWD, cap mod, scram, web, TD or cap mod, scram, 2x web, td. From 3 usable ewar slots to 1...ouch.
Anyways, enjoy my killmails! 
2007.11.16 22:18
Victim: ****
Alliance: ****
Corp: ****
Destroyed: Raven
System: Y-ZXIO
Security: 0.0
Involved parties:
Name: Guristas Eradicator / Guristas
Name: Corwain (laid the final blow)
Security: -1.4
Alliance: NONE
Corp: Down In Flames
Ship: Pilgrim
Weapon: Warrior II
Destroyed items:
Power Diagnostic System II
Damage Control II
Ballistic Deflection Field I
Dread Guristas Heat Dissipation Field
Ballistic Deflection Field I
Power Diagnostic System II
ZW-4100 Siege Missile Bay
Ballistic Deflection Field I
Ballistic Control System II
Juggernaut Torpedo, Qty: 881 (Cargo)
Power Diagnostic System I
Juggernaut Torpedo, Qty: 18
Juggernaut Torpedo, Qty: 2
Juggernaut Torpedo, Qty: 2
2007.11.19 05:08
Victim: ****
Alliance: ****
Corp: ****
Destroyed: Typhoon
System: 4GYV-Q
Security: 0.0
Involved parties:
Name: Corwain (laid the final blow)
Security: -1.4
Alliance: NONE
Corp: Down In Flames
Ship: Pilgrim
Weapon: Hammerhead II
Name: Guristas Eradicator / Guristas
Destroyed items:
Armor Kinetic Hardener I
Small Tractor Beam I
Salvager I
Salvager I
Ogre I (Drone Bay)
1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates I
1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates I
Scourge Heavy Missile, Qty: 4648 (Cargo)
Armor Kinetic Hardener I
Cap Recharger I
Scourge Heavy Missile, Qty: 2
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Kruel
Blunt Force Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.11.28 16:21:00 -
[17]
I can solo a NPCing Raven in my Taranis. Killing one in a Pilgrim is hardly worth bragging about.
Fact is Pilgrims suck a fat one compared to other recons. Sure you can solo some BS, but it takes 10 minutes to kill one, and by then backup has arrived. Being close range, you can't bail like the other recons.
Result = dead Pilgrim.
Hell I stopped using it BEFORE the nos nerf. Curse was always better. Now with the nos nerf and upcoming TD nerf... you have to really like the ship to fly it.
Not saying it's bad... compared to a T1 cruiser the Pilgrim is great. But compare it to other HACs/Recons, not so much.
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Feng Schui
Minmatar
The Ninja Coalition
Drunken N Disorderly
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Posted - 2007.11.28 16:29:00 -
[18]
a torpedo using raven (which are getting severely boosted to mega-blaster level in trinity) and a noob typhoon pilot, probably a month old or so.
nothing to see here 
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Madla Mafia
The Dead Man's Hand
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Posted - 2007.11.28 17:42:00 -
[19]
The Pilgrim can beat a very narrow selection of ships 1 on 1. (t1 frigs and cruisers mostly.)
And that's about as far as the Pilgrim shines. Pretty worthless. Mine is hung up on my hangar wall for
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Amarr - getting screwed since 2005. |
Thargorr
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2007.11.28 19:49:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Feng Schui
a torpedo using raven (which are getting severely boosted to mega-blaster level in trinity) and a noob typhoon pilot, probably a month old or so.
nothing to see here
Even in Rev3 it'll be about as easy to tank a Raven in a Pilly, it'll only be a problem if you're painted by a minnie recon. Not to mention in Rev3 ratting Ravens will prolly be fitting cruise, which will actually prolly be harder to tank with a Pilly than pre- or post-boost torps.
They were actually quite old pilots and I missed getting killed by reinforcements of a Huginn, Pest, Domi, and Raven+dictor by like 10s (warping out as they warped in). The Dread Guristas Thermal hard really gave my Hammerheads a problem, and the rats actually MWDed back to their respawn 150km away and stopped helping with the damage during the fight. At one point the raven started spamming FoF torps which wreaked havoc on my drones as as soon as I re-launched em he could hit without waiting for a new lock.
The 'phoon only had 1 BS rat on him, but he was pretty easy to tank as he only had T1 Ogres, large projectiles that I was TDing, and heavy missiles. I might have died if he had T2 Ogres, and T2 cruise with medium projectile turrets.
If I get nossed I'm dead because of the way neuts work now, I can work with being webbed somewhat.
I'm not saying the Pilgrim doesn't need a boost here, I'm saying it can do SOMETHING in very niche situations against newer pilots. Ratters are still prime game, just trickier now. Pilgrim was really always a ratter killer ANYHOW as any PvP ship isn't exposing itself if it doesn't know what it's up against. That leaves gates, and with the Pilgrim's low mobility, and CPU issues that caused a lot of Pilgrim pilots to fit an AB+7500m scram you weren't catching anything at a gate. Plus as a Pilgrim pilot you didn't know if someone jumping in was just a scout for a gang, rather a quick death.
No, Pilgrim has always been a belt-ratter killer. It can still do this as:
1. Even experienced pilots usually fit their ratting ships fairly cheaply, it's hard to get T2 mods in 0.0, and ratting ships usually die sooner or later, especially slow, fat BSes.
2. Most ratters don't cap inject
3. A lot of ratters don't use nos since the nerf, and they'd never fit a neut unless they were expecting PvP.
I'm not releasing my setup despite its effectiveness because:
1. I like the cost of the Pilgrim right now. I'm thinking of buying a bunch in bulk and hope for a boost.
2. Pilgrim still needs a boost and I don't want people using my setup to say it doesn't. It's just a very niche thing that will only work if I'm dedicating it to hunt 0.0 BS ratters. As a plus it can also handle most long turreted PvP HACs and BCs.
And don't make fun of my kills, or do I need to bring up you losing a Pilgrim to my corpies Prophecy?
We haven't put it to the test yet, but I know how Kaileen fits The Proph[TM] and I expect I can beat it. I have nearly the same tank on my Pilgrim, only 200dps less and I can suck, or choose not to suck cap as needed. I don't cap inject and neither does Kaileen.
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Steakkbone
Helios Incorporated
Insurgency
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Posted - 2007.11.29 02:47:00 -
[21]
The ship definitely requires more thought and skill to fly now, kinda like most Amarr ships 
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Wayward Hooligan
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.11.29 04:53:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Wayward Hooligan on 29/11/2007 04:53:50
Ignore, wrong thread.
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WELP!
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Feng Schui
Minmatar
The Ninja Coalition
Drunken N Disorderly
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Posted - 2007.11.29 04:53:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Feng Schui on 29/11/2007 04:53:42
corwain:
i'm not saying the pilgim cannot make ANY kills right now, it can. hell, i still get kills.
a few things though:
1) That prophecy is probably the best setup BC i've come across.. ever. I've lost 2 other pilgrims, in a 1v1 against BC's; 1 being a myrmidon and the other being a hurricane that was using ECM drones. Hurricane got lucky i was jammed before i could target.
2) Currently, a torp using raven won't do squat to a cruiser and below, unless they have a TP and web. With trinity, since torps will be such close range, you can bet on 99% of all torp using ravens using these.
Cruise missles hurt. especially if you're not specifically tanked for them. It depends on pilot age / how much they put into missles if you can kill them or not.
3) Yea, I try to hunt mainly low SP targets myself. But with these pilots, I could kill them just as easily in an arbitrator
So, all in all, what can a Pilgrim kill that an Arbitrator couldn't? Ummm... I've yet to find out. Seriously.
edit: typhoon using T1 gear and T1 drones = noob in my book, who cares how old he is =p
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Neena Valdi
Art of War
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Posted - 2007.11.29 08:32:00 -
[24]
Originally by: ChimeraRouge
The pilgrim looks like it can still beat things 1v1 so it's fine as it is.
Ivy League... Didn't you guys learn yet - EVE is NOT about 1 vs 1.
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Wishy
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Posted - 2007.11.29 17:43:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Neena Valdi
Originally by: ChimeraRouge
The pilgrim looks like it can still beat things 1v1 so it's fine as it is.
Ivy League... Didn't you guys learn yet - EVE is NOT about 1 vs 1.
Wont be any better in gangs  Curse is way better.(Because of the range ofc and more nautz in both gangs and solo)
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Veng3ance
Prophets Of a Damned Universe
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Posted - 2007.11.29 20:16:00 -
[26]
Hahaha Pilgrim.
I would rather fly an Omen.
And thats saying a lot 
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Emperor D'Hoffryn
No Quarter.
Vae Victis.
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Posted - 2007.11.29 20:39:00 -
[27]
a pilgrim attacked my abso on SISI last night. The pilgrim looked awesome by the way, i like the graphics updates...
which brings up a point. I had time to look at the pilgrim, then blast him out of the water, all the while not really noticing any problems with my cap. I killed him in about 15 seconds once i started firing...
not saying a pilgrim could have killed an abso prior to the nos nerf either tho. It definately must pick and choose its targets now, however.
Originally by: Snuggly
It's just so great to have an actual reason to not die, incentive is fantastic!
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Cailais
Amarr
W A R
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Posted - 2007.11.29 20:49:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Cailais on 29/11/2007 20:49:16
Originally by: Emperor D'Hoffryn
a pilgrim attacked my abso on SISI last night. The pilgrim looked awesome by the way, i like the graphics updates...
which brings up a point. I had time to look at the pilgrim, then blast him out of the water, all the while not really noticing any problems with my cap. I killed him in about 15 seconds once i started firing...
not saying a pilgrim could have killed an abso prior to the nos nerf either tho. It definately must pick and choose its targets now, however.
Yeah, I think that was me - youd need to check the kill mail tho. Does look nice doesnt it? All red and glowy and stupidly useless.
C.
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Dehumanisation - griefers are cool and if you are not a griefer, you do not belong here.
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Semkhet
KR0M
The Red Skull
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Posted - 2007.11.29 21:08:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Cailais
Edited by: Cailais on 29/11/2007 20:49:16
Originally by: Emperor D'Hoffryn
a pilgrim attacked my abso on SISI last night. The pilgrim looked awesome by the way, i like the graphics updates...
which brings up a point. I had time to look at the pilgrim, then blast him out of the water, all the while not really noticing any problems with my cap. I killed him in about 15 seconds once i started firing...
not saying a pilgrim could have killed an abso prior to the nos nerf either tho. It definately must pick and choose its targets now, however.
Yeah, I think that was me - youd need to check the kill mail tho. Does look nice doesnt it? All red and glowy and stupidly useless.
C.
Pilgrim was the most tactical ship in the whole game. A slow, lone shark, observing the prey and struggling to get into a good position, only surfacing for a duel to death. It was philosophically so pure. The good ol'days...
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Feng Schui
Minmatar
The Ninja Coalition
Drunken N Disorderly
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Posted - 2007.11.30 02:41:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Semkhet
Pilgrim was the most tactical ship in the whole game. A slow, lone shark, observing the prey and struggling to get into a good position, only surfacing for a duel to death. It was philosophically so pure. The good ol'days...
thats going in my bio 
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