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Masu'di Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative	Posted - 2007.12.01 03:59:00 - [1] Edited by: Masu''di on 01/12/2007 03:59:54 CCP with one discreet and little announced change in Trinity, is going to do more damage to the contraband and narcotics black-market in Eve, than the DEA will have ever manage to parallel in their 30 year war on drugs. Taken from the patch notes: "illegal items can now be traded on the market in regions where they are condemned." Remove prohibition, and remove the criminal element. I'll go further, I believe this is bad for eve on so many levels, not only does it make no sense to the back story, it also removes any kind of black-market in eve. As someone who regularly sells combat boosters, and before this narcotics, the appeal to me was the customer face to face interaction. If I can just stroll over to Jita, yes customs rarely catch you (besides which they are fairly boringly implemented as a random dice roll), and drop them on the market - where is the interest and fun in that? Contraband will become just another commodity, like any other. Combat Booster production, will just be another grind to throw on a market hub and watch your wallet blink. No customers to meet in a quiet station and slip a dime or twenty bag of X-instinct too. No more, "I know this guy who knows a guy who can sort you out". No more intrigue and double dealing against other dealers, instead 0.1 ISK price wars. I could go on... Es and Whizz is recruiting
edane Gallente Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative	Posted - 2007.12.01 04:05:00 - [2] Ive had an account for around 2 years now, i just found the black market 15 days ago. Finding the black market has saved my subscription. The great thing about EVE's black market is its real, its word of mouth, not a button or a tab underneath the regular market button. Narcotics has already been nerfed. Now the most unique, deep, and attractive part of this very niche profession, face to face in the shadows dealings, is going away. The black market is an entire other world within EVE. And when one finds this world, it add so much depth. This is meta gaming at is finest, there are no skill books, there is not a Black market button. There are no game play mechanics, this is emergent content created and run by the players. (yes this is a copy paste from one of my posts in the GDF, but im not going to reword what my opinion is)
Mr Broker Amarr Station Gremlings	Posted - 2007.12.01 04:10:00 - [3] the rest of us would like to be finally able to responsibly accquire boosters without having to deal with scumbag pushers, and finally, some of the money will go into government coffers as taxes to upgrade Eve infrastructure legalize boosters! death to republican businessmen who have been profiting from this system all awhile condemning it in public!
Neal Cassady Mutually Assured Distraction	Posted - 2007.12.01 04:13:00 - [4] sucks for you bud, you have my sympathy. always been an admirer of the narcotics and booster slangers.
Masu'di Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative	Posted - 2007.12.01 04:13:00 - [5] Originally by: Mr Broker the rest of us would like to be finally able to responsibly accquire boosters without having to deal with scumbag pushers, and finally, some of the money will go into government coffers as taxes to upgrade Eve infrastructure legalize boosters! death to republican businessmen who have been profiting from this system all awhile condemning it in public! i was expecting someone to say that soon but hey you know, we might be sleazy drug pushers, but we bring some character and variety to the game Es and Whizz is recruiting
Kiithnaras Minmatar OVER-DOSE Hedonistic Imperative	Posted - 2007.12.01 04:15:00 - [6] Yeah, that's probably the dumbest idea I've ever heard. If a politician tried that in real life, they'd be shot. "I propose that we legalize the sale of all drugs, deviant ****ography, and dangerous weapons. However, we're still going to come down on you like the righteous fury of heaven if we catch you with them!" Most inane idea ever. Variation of the idea I posted elsewhere before; for RP purposes, sale of contraband should only be legal in empire space if the sale is in sovereign space where the contraband is also legal, and only in stations whose factions consider it legal. This automatically rules out all boosters from open sale. Slaves, for instance, could only be traded in Amarr or Khanid space in Amarr or Khanid stations. Sovereign nations will not allow open illegal activity within their borders, and factions will not have such activity that they consider illegal going on in their stations. Simple. Realistic. Sane.
An Anarchyyt Gallente Sublime.	Posted - 2007.12.01 04:17:00 - [7] Originally by: Mr Broker the rest of us would like to be finally able to responsibly accquire boosters without having to deal with scumbag pushers, and finally, some of the money will go into government coffers as taxes to upgrade Eve infrastructure legalize boosters! death to republican businessmen who have been profiting from this system all awhile condemning it in public! Which is what the Synth boosters are for. You want the real stuff, you gotta come to us. As of now, I don't think I plant t o put the boosters up on the market, Synth ones sure, but I am not foreseeing the surge of people putting these on the market, as there just aren't that many of us doing it. And the black market is still better for regular supply. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Jack Freely The Intergalactic Federation Endless Horizon	Posted - 2007.12.01 04:17:00 - [8] Originally by: Masu'di Edited by: Masu''di on 01/12/2007 03:59:54 "illegal items can now be traded on the market in regions where they are condemned." From my noob reading skills I read that you can sell them on the market but that doesn't remove the fact they are still banned. So what you think?
An Anarchyyt Gallente Sublime.	Posted - 2007.12.01 04:18:00 - [9] Originally by: Jack Freely Originally by: Masu'di Edited by: Masu''di on 01/12/2007 03:59:54 "illegal items can now be traded on the market in regions where they are condemned." From my noob reading skills I read that you can sell them on the market but that doesn't remove the fact they are still banned. So what you think? Getting past customs isn't that big of a deal. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Jack Freely The Intergalactic Federation Endless Horizon	Posted - 2007.12.01 04:26:00 - [10] Originally by: An Anarchyyt Originally by: Jack Freely Originally by: Masu'di Edited by: Masu''di on 01/12/2007 03:59:54 "illegal items can now be traded on the market in regions where they are condemned." From my noob reading skills I read that you can sell them on the market but that doesn't remove the fact they are still banned. So what you think? Getting past customs isn't that big of a deal. Ok see and there is my noob level I will go back to popping haulings in empire
Cmdr Sy Appetite 4 Destruction	Posted - 2007.12.01 04:35:00 - [11] Drugs are bad - the only solution is full decriminalisation. Logoffs
Kiithnaras Minmatar OVER-DOSE Hedonistic Imperative	Posted - 2007.12.01 04:43:00 - [12] Edited by: Kiithnaras on 01/12/2007 04:45:41 "So I went into the drugstore at Wal-Mart the other day. It was great, I got all the weed, coke, and smack I could ever want. But wouldn't ya know, the moment I left the store, the cops busted me and slammed me into the wall. They took all my stuff and then towed my car. I had to walk to the bloody dealership to get a new car just to make the drive home." -On the Legal Sale of Illegal Goods. Seriously, CCP. If you make this move, it will murder a lot of the real "Black Market" that makes contraband trading so interesting, fun, and multifaceted. Making sale legal just turns it into a typical commodity. Was there even a purpose behind this? Because this would never work in any real life situation. There's a reason black markets operate underground without the authorities knowing.
Riley Craven Caldari Sunshine Carebear Crew	Posted - 2007.12.01 05:20:00 - [13] Originally by: Kiithnaras Edited by: Kiithnaras on 01/12/2007 04:45:41 Was there even a purpose behind this? Because this would never work in any real life situation. The funny thing about Trinity is that question pretty much applies to the whole patch. WTF are they smoking over there. Probably the same stuff as when they wanted to do away with the trade and market forums.... Apparently CCP think they are above listening to players these days.
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2007.12.01 06:11:00 - [14] Do people actually use boosters? Everyone I talk to (alliance types, diehard PvPers) say they never bother because the upside is not worth the potential downside.
F90OEX	Posted - 2007.12.01 06:21:00 - [15] wtb boosters 1 isk
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.12.01 06:32:00 - [16] you all must be high Originally by: Cecil Montague They should change that warning on entering low sec to: "Go read Crime and Punishment for a few days then come back."
LUH 3471	Posted - 2007.12.01 06:34:00 - [17] ringedingedingdingdong i think ccp has looked to deep in da bong
An Anarchyyt Gallente Sublime.	Posted - 2007.12.01 06:41:00 - [18] Originally by: Tortun Nahme you all must be high Hey, I'm a provider, not a user. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Masu'di Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative	Posted - 2007.12.03 10:47:00 - [19] Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Do people actually use boosters? Everyone I talk to (alliance types, diehard PvPers) say they never bother because the upside is not worth the potential downside. Some people love them, but a lot of people feel the same about the downside, and it is the most common thing i hear said. Still we get more customers looking for boosters than we can currently make, and have to turn people away, and save the "good" stuff for people we like and long-term customers. Es and Whizz is recruiting
Agor Dirdonen	Posted - 2007.12.03 17:29:00 - [20] Edited by: Agor Dirdonen on 03/12/2007 17:29:36 Originally by: Kiithnaras Yeah, that's probably the dumbest idea I've ever heard. If a politician tried that in real life, they'd be shot. oh I don't know. I believe there's a country in Europe where it's allowed to buy (soft)drugs in a coffeeshop although they are officially still illegal. Don't know the details of it though but it's something like that.
DrAtomic Atomic Heroes Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.03 17:54:00 - [21] Originally by: Agor Dirdonen Edited by: Agor Dirdonen on 03/12/2007 17:29:36 Originally by: Kiithnaras Yeah, that's probably the dumbest idea I've ever heard. If a politician tried that in real life, they'd be shot. oh I don't know. I believe there's a country in Europe where it's allowed to buy (soft)drugs in a coffeeshop although they are officially still illegal. Don't know the details of it though but it's something like that. Lol, yes, The Netherland... And it's just softdrugs, surprisingly The Netherlands have one of the lowest harddrug addiction levels in the world contrary to hard nut policiy countries like euhrm say the USA. ----------------------------------------------- Originally by: CCP Sharkbait we are screwed. My Top 10 List
Louis DelaBlanche Cosmic Odyssey YouWhat	Posted - 2007.12.03 18:20:00 - [22] Oddly, this is quite a big change that ive seen absolutely no demand for. Would make selling them easier for a casual producer, but reducing the whole process of aquiring drugs to simply headed to Jita & opening the market tab would be sad . Can already buy em off market in 0.0 which is enough imo
Lisento Slaven Amarr Capitalism Amuck	Posted - 2007.12.03 18:29:00 - [23] What do you guys do with the NPC drugs anyways? Do npc agents ask for them still? --- Put in space whales!
Agil TradeAlt	Posted - 2007.12.03 18:37:00 - [24] Hello I buy tradegoods to fill in a NPC buy order. Oh dear, it seems that the NPC buy oder cannot be filled becuase it wont let me sell it. Thanks for fixing this CCP, as this will no longer be an issue anymore. Freightor loads of whisky, here we come!
Masu'di Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative	Posted - 2007.12.03 19:34:00 - [25] Originally by: Lisento Slaven What do you guys do with the NPC drugs anyways? Do npc agents ask for them still? we used to sell these to agent runners for pirate implant offers, but CCP accidentally killed this off when they introduced loyalty point stores. Es and Whizz is recruiting
MrTripps Gallente	Posted - 2007.12.03 19:49:00 - [26] I'd be willing to bet that the majority of players don't know that boosters exist in the game. Same goes for the black market. Certainty of death...small chance of success...what are we waiting for? - Gimli
Mr Reeth Aegis Militia	Posted - 2007.12.03 20:03:00 - [27] My advise to the smugglers and dirty drug pushers is to start acting like real dealers. Start ganking people buying drugs from the competition. Keep some people in Jita and nail anyone you see with dope in the cargohold. Travel around looking at local markets see who is making drugs, and force the to give it up or join you. Buy the drugs yourself and keep the markets empty. This might be good for you guys... the start of drug wars!
An Anarchyyt Gallente Sublime.	Posted - 2007.12.03 20:13:00 - [28] Originally by: Mr Reeth My advise to the smugglers and dirty drug pushers is to start acting like real dealers. Start ganking people buying drugs from the competition. Keep some people in Jita and nail anyone you see with dope in the cargohold. Travel around looking at local markets see who is making drugs, and force the to give it up or join you. Buy the drugs yourself and keep the markets empty. This might be good for you guys... the start of drug wars! Stop giving out my plans! Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
nyogen Gallente Ninmu Seijaku Legionnaire Services Ltd.	Posted - 2007.12.04 11:05:00 - [29] Always admired your niche Masu'di. You have my signature on this, for what it's worth.
Odda Gallente Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.12.04 11:10:00 - [30] Hope this works for combat boosters :) Whuld love to be able to by them in more places!
Karlemgne The Black Fleet The Cosa Nostra	Posted - 2007.12.04 19:09:00 - [31] Originally by: edane Edited by: edane on 01/12/2007 04:07:44 Ive had an account for around 2 years now, i just found the black market 15 days ago. Finding the black market has saved my subscription. The great thing about EVE's black market is its real, its word of mouth, not a button or a tab underneath the regular market button. Narcotics has already been nerfed. Now the most unique, deep, and attractive part of this very niche profession, face to face in the shadows dealings, is going away. The black market is an entire other world within EVE. And when one finds this world, it add so much depth. This is meta gaming at is finest, there are no skill books, there is not a Black market button. There are no game play mechanics, this is emergent content created and run by the players. (Yes this is a copy paste from one of my posts in the GDF, but im not going to reword what my opinion is. This is the best i know how to say it) That might be all well and good, but... I have played EVE for two years, and I've got no idea what you are talking about when you refer to a "black market." Indeed, I've got a feeling that most of eve, especially the non-roleplayers, are excluded from this "black market." If I'm wrong that's really strange, because as an underworld eve pirate, I've never (ever) been exposed to said "market" and as a real life regular guy I have been exposed to the real life black market. So, again, this black market boo hoo talk seems to apply to roleplayers only. The rest of us, especially the ones who don't rp day-in-and-day-out would like to have access to stuff like boosters, without having to pay some douche on the forums a gazzilion isk and then have to wait two weeks for the guy to move the boosters to you. -Karl
Karlemgne The Black Fleet The Cosa Nostra	Posted - 2007.12.04 19:14:00 - [32] Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Do people actually use boosters? Everyone I talk to (alliance types, diehard PvPers) say they never bother because the upside is not worth the potential downside. The answer to your question is yes, pvpers would like to use boosters, but really they don't use boosters because: They are illegal to sell in any low-sec NPC station. Because of this the four or five whiners in this thread have a veritable monopoly on the booster trade. So they charge far too much for their product, and if you do buy it you've got to wait a very long time for them to actually get it to you, then trade it "by hand." All this means is that most people don't use/have reasonable access to boosters. I'm guessing CCP doesn't like that, thus this change. -Karl
SG Felcoree	Posted - 2007.12.04 21:18:00 - [33] Edited by: SG Felcoree on 04/12/2007 21:22:28 Originally by: Karlemgne Originally by: edane Edited by: edane on 01/12/2007 04:07:44 Ive had an account for around 2 years now, i just found the black market 15 days ago. Finding the black market has saved my subscription. The great thing about EVE's black market is its real, its word of mouth, not a button or a tab underneath the regular market button. Narcotics has already been nerfed. Now the most unique, deep, and attractive part of this very niche profession, face to face in the shadows dealings, is going away. The black market is an entire other world within EVE. And when one finds this world, it add so much depth. This is meta gaming at is finest, there are no skill books, there is not a Black market button. There are no game play mechanics, this is emergent content created and run by the players. (Yes this is a copy paste from one of my posts in the GDF, but im not going to reword what my opinion is. This is the best i know how to say it) That might be all well and good, but... I have played EVE for two years, and I've got no idea what you are talking about when you refer to a "black market." Indeed, I've got a feeling that most of eve, especially the non-roleplayers, are excluded from this "black market." If I'm wrong that's really strange, because as an underworld eve pirate, I've never (ever) been exposed to said "market" and as a real life regular guy I have been exposed to the real life black market. So, again, this black market boo hoo talk seems to apply to roleplayers only. The rest of us, especially the ones who don't rp day-in-and-day-out would like to have access to stuff like boosters, without having to pay some douche on the forums a gazzilion isk and then have to wait two weeks for the guy to move the boosters to you. -Karl Sorry to say my friend it dose not just apply to role playing. Not all things in eve are on the market. I believe Booster should stay out of the market for many reasons if you donÆt want to get off your @$$ and look for it, its not anyoneÆs fault but your own. Their is a lot of items that can not be bought on the market and will stay that way and can only be bought by contract. Why should an illegal substance have priority over regular items it dose not make sense. and if CCP changes that because people are wining then they are losing their priorities on how they designed booster to be in the game. this is my point of View
Masu'di Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative	Posted - 2007.12.04 22:12:00 - [34] Originally by: Karlemgne Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Do people actually use boosters? Everyone I talk to (alliance types, diehard PvPers) say they never bother because the upside is not worth the potential downside. The answer to your question is yes, pvpers would like to use boosters, but really they don't use boosters because: They are illegal to sell in any low-sec NPC station. Because of this the four or five whiners in this thread have a veritable monopoly on the booster trade. So they charge far too much for their product, and if you do buy it you've got to wait a very long time for them to actually get it to you, then trade it "by hand." All this means is that most people don't use/have reasonable access to boosters. I'm guessing CCP doesn't like that, thus this change. -Karl armchair commentary for the win Es and Whizz is recruiting
Yokan Daifuku Gallente The Flaming Sideburn's Hedonistic Imperative	Posted - 2007.12.04 22:52:00 - [35] Originally by: Karlemgne Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Do people actually use boosters? Everyone I talk to (alliance types, diehard PvPers) say they never bother because the upside is not worth the potential downside. The answer to your question is yes, pvpers would like to use boosters, but really they don't use boosters because: They are illegal to sell in any low-sec NPC station. Because of this the four or five whiners in this thread have a veritable monopoly on the booster trade. So they charge far too much for their product, and if you do buy it you've got to wait a very long time for them to actually get it to you, then trade it "by hand." All this means is that most people don't use/have reasonable access to boosters. I'm guessing CCP doesn't like that, thus this change. -Karl If you really wanted to use boosters why don't you put a want to buy order on the forum? We have been successful at trading them, so don't you think we would have a business process that includes the quick transfer to a customer. I don't think you understand why boosters cost so much and I'm not willing to tell you anything other than this: you can't fly into where the raw materials are with a Hulk. As far as prices go we'll see if they go down after the patch. I have my prices linked in my ingame bio so we have a record of what I charge before the market opens. Instead of whining about people who have an interest in keeping things the same take a look in the mirror ask yourself, "If I really wanted boosters why am I a Johnny-come-lately to them". ---- Yo-con Die-foo-koo
An Anarchyyt Gallente Sublime.	Posted - 2007.12.04 23:09:00 - [36] Originally by: Masu'di But until you actually have a go at making the boosters yourself, you won't realise the amount of logistics, the variety of skills, and danger in making them. Which is exactly why I'm not too worried. At first, people might start thinking that now they can go and do it, but the reality is, you still need the infrastructure, you still need the pieces reactions and BPCs. This, is what keeps people from producing them, and what will still keep it close to this way. I have found that word of mouth has been far more effective than the market, or of the sell forum. And I don't think people understand that. The market is not going to suddenly exist everywhere. What it will be easier to do now, is to find the other people making boosters, and take care of them. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Karlemgne The Black Fleet The Cosa Nostra	Posted - 2007.12.05 01:23:00 - [37] Originally by: SG Felcoree Sorry to say my friend it dose not just apply to role playing. I'm sorry, what I meant to say was role players and booster manufacturers. By-the-way since most of you post on the forums, I wouldn't really call that a "black market" just an annoying one. Quote: Not all things in eve are on the market. I believe Booster should stay out of the market for many reasons if you donÆt want to get off your @$$ and look for it, its not anyoneÆs fault but your own. Lets be fair, you don't want boosters to be available on market because you produce them (or someone you know does.) As they are now, they are such a hassle to procure and sell that most people who don't want to spend their days flying all around the universe dropping off orders don't produce them. This change is going to open up the booster market and send the prices of your product through the floor. Well, I'm sorry, I'm not in favor of rather dumb game mechanics that make you rich and deny the vast majority of the player base access to boosters. Quote: Their is a lot of items that can not be bought on the market and will stay that way and can only be bought by contract. I always thought this was stupid, and I still do. However, I'm sure if you would be in favor of returning all faction items, including ammo, to contracts. Quote: Why should an illegal substance have priority over regular items it dose not make sense. Number one, its a game, it doesn't always have to make perfect sense. Number two, its stupid that there is anything you can't sell on the markets. Number three, my guess is that CCP intended booster usage to be higher than it currently is, and figured lack of access was what was preventing the wider use of boosters. Quote: and if CCP changes that because people are whining then they are losing their sence priorities on how they designed boosters to be in the game. My experience with MMOs has taught me (I should know I've worked on them) that very little changes are made because a group of players whined. Most likely, CCP thought that boosters would reach a greater number of players, even with the old system. When this didn't pan out like they expected it to, they changed the system. Quote: this is my point of View Well, we disagree. -Karl
An Anarchyyt Gallente Sublime.	Posted - 2007.12.05 01:26:00 - [38] It seems like you don't really have the faintest idea about booster manufacturing. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Masu'di Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative	Posted - 2007.12.05 01:32:00 - [39] Originally by: Karlemgne ... stuff... let's just see how it turns out aye? Es and Whizz is recruiting

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