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Xavier Cardde
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Posted - 2004.03.08 08:28:00 -
[1]
Before this is reviewed for locking I ask that participants in this thread not discuss Polaris' actions as that would be naughty for us paying customers to talk about the people we pay for a service. Thus by not talking about their forum practices it shouldnt be locked.
But anyway this is about the existance of the Polaris program in general. I for one think that in regards to the game itself it can only be a good thing, we could have people organizing events and keeping the online world from stagnation, here the zealous people are a good thing as the more they do for the game the better time we all have.
In other regards though why is Polaris moderating this forum? surely we dont need to be watched by so many Polaris members so much of the day? I think at least here the DEVs should be in control of the forums because they dont really require moderation in the first place let alone a small army of people each with dogmatic devotion to keeping it unheathily sanitized.
my proposition is that Polaris be absolved from forum duties and GM managment resume because there just isnt that much stuff to moderate. As for the Polaris here; they should be relegated to doing something that the customers actually do want. More ingame events and activities.
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Erty
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Posted - 2004.03.08 08:35:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Erty on 08/03/2004 08:39:52
lol. Of course the boards needs moderation, the reason you think they doesn't is that they ARE moderated and so you don't see the problems.
Why would CCP pay the GM's to moderate the boards? The GM's are for the game, not for the boards. All forums I've been to have volunteering forum moderators/admins (I'm one myself) and it works well. What's the problem?
You say that the polaris should do ingame events and activities...well I think the GM's as professionals are better at that.
One big reason (at least at "my" forum) that people aren't allowed to talk about forum moderation directly in the forums is that the forums would get flooded by stuff like that. This is a forum about EVE, not about the moderators.
Anyway yes I do think Polaris is good. Maybe some parts could be handled better though.
This is my signature. |
Absurd
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Posted - 2004.03.08 08:47:00 -
[3]
I think a forum where almost everything goes should be a good idea, real mostly unedited flame fests, non EVE related topics and a real general chatty thingy.
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Orestes
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Posted - 2004.03.08 09:07:00 -
[4]
Erty summed it up retty nicely, actually. The reason it seems the boards don't need moderation is because they are moderated. Means that we're doing our job (reasonably) well.
The reason that the devs and GM's aren't moderating the forums is very simple, they're far too busy 
In any case, I would love to have more people join up with the events team and the other teams within Polaris. Would you like to volunteer?
Join the IC! |
Tyrrax Thorrk
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Posted - 2004.03.08 09:18:00 -
[5]
note, the GMs don't really do events.. that's Aurora (part of Polaris)
Unfortunately the highups in Polaris hate me so I can't join :(
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Xavier Cardde
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Posted - 2004.03.08 09:37:00 -
[6]
True we do need moderation but I dont think that it need as much patrol as it is getting, I think instead of this moderation we could be getting far greater ingame event and going ons... the polaris people have the spirit for the job anyway.
I think a more liberal approach to the forums would be great with far less locking 
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Orestes
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Posted - 2004.03.08 09:40:00 -
[7]
 Quote:
True we do need moderation but I dont think that it need as much patrol as it is getting, I think instead of this moderation we could be getting far greater ingame event and going ons... the polaris people have the spirit for the job anyway.
Ehh, opinions differ. Nothing can be done about that .
Join the IC! |
Scorpyn
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Posted - 2004.03.08 09:49:00 -
[8]
Moderation IS required on the forum, no question about it - I've seen a lot of bad stuff posted that was removed by Polaris.
Another question is whether the moderation should be run by volonteers. This is both good and bad - the bad part is that I'm against it by matters of principle - you should not do work for a company you pay money to. However, I've realized that the advantages are far greater than the disadvantages - it's easier to remove Polaris previlege to a non-employee if the person disbehaves, Polaris is located in all timezones and so on.
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M0RIARTY
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Posted - 2004.03.08 12:37:00 -
[9]
Edited by: M0RIARTY on 08/03/2004 12:39:17
It just seems to me that the "Mods" are being just a bit over zealous at present. 
It also seems to me that you are not allowed to express any negative aspects of Eve without the lock button being jumped on. 
I dont see a problem if sombody wants to let off steam because they are upset about an aspect of the game, CCP, Polaris or anything else, its a forum, a place for discussion.
As long as it's not racist, RL threats, or personal insults then I am sure there would be enough people who would defend against the negative comments, if not then maybe there is some validity in them and they should be looked at more closly by the relavent department.
We need moderation on the forums but not so heavy handed on the lock/del button
Noo sig comming SOONÖ
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What are we going to do about all this ignorance and apathy?.... I don't know and I don't care! |
Wrangler
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Posted - 2004.03.08 13:24:00 -
[10]
Well, you could remove the volunteer moderators, and replace us with GMs.
But that would result in a few things. For one, the GMs response time to petitions would be longer, since some of them would spend time moderating. There wouldn't be so many people moderating, so it could get really bad before someone gets a chance to take a look at it. The rules would probably stay, having lots of flaming and trolling isn't good for selling a product, but the consequences for breaking them would be worse. Currently you don't get a temp ban until your 5th warning, and permaban comes at 10th warning, it is likely that there would be a zero tolerance policy, meaning you break rules once and you get permabanned. It's not even certain there would be a forum without volunteers, since it takes some time to moderate, and that will cost if its done by employees.
This isn't some kind of way to tell you all you better keep us or it will be worse, this is the way I've seen a lot of other MMOGs work, for games where there are no volunteers, I can't really name those games though..
Anyway, we're always open for suggestions, and you're welcome to email us at [email protected] if you feel something is wrong, or if you want to suggest we change something, for example policys or rules. We will however not reply to insults and profanity.
Currently, there are a few new moderators, which means they might not always know how to handle something, I hope you'll be nice to them if they make mistakes until they've had a chance to learn how to moderate properly.
We have some good news as well, we're working on getting a OOC Lounge forum up, a place where you can discuss non EVE related things. We don't really have an ETA on when it will open, but it will come.
[Read the Rules!] - [Email the Moderators] |
Morning Maniac
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Posted - 2004.03.08 13:47:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Morning Maniac on 08/03/2004 13:50:07
I think Polaris is a good thing and it helps to keep the game affordable. If GMs would have to do the moderating then CCP would need to hire more or the quality of the game would suffer. There are however many services that provide a free message board, I'm sure a search with google will give you some results. Feel free to create your own message board or forum.
MM
Channel "EVE University"
www.eve-university.cjb.net (ingame)
EVE University commercial |
Isang Relow
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Posted - 2004.03.08 13:58:00 -
[12]
"In any case, I would love to have more people join up with the events team and the other teams within Polaris. Would you like to volunteer?"
Well that's a nice offer/thing to say and i would really love to be apart of polaris but the two occasions i applied i got no response. Now i know only those who get to the next stage get an email, but i do find it annoying that i dont know why i didnt get through.
/me frowns
Anyway, from what ive seen the polaris forum moderators do a great job, ingame i rarely see one maybe the odd occasion in the help channel, but they do help.
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Jacob Molari
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Posted - 2004.03.08 14:11:00 -
[13]
My big beef with polaris is that they wield way to much power.
Removed
I'm still waiting for a reason why they stole it. I don't know if I will get it, but since I am a paying customer with more than one account, I would expect a little explanation.
Removed
That's my beef polaris. And I want to know who yanked my sig, and why!
Discussing forum moderation is not allowed - Wrangler
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Wrangler
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Posted - 2004.03.08 14:19:00 -
[14]
Please send an email to [email protected] regarding your signature.
We are willing to let this thread stay, but if moderation actions are discussed, we will lock it.
[Read the Rules!] - [Email the Moderators] |
Jacob Molari
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Posted - 2004.03.08 14:25:00 -
[15]
LOL! Thanks for proving my (now deleted) points! 
Quote:
My big beef with polaris is that they wield way to much power.
Removed
I'm still waiting for a reason why they stole it. I don't know if I will get it, but since I am a paying customer with more than one account, I would expect a little explanation.
Removed
That's my beef polaris. And I want to know who yanked my sig, and why!
Discussing forum moderation is not allowed - Wrangler
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Riddari
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Posted - 2004.03.08 14:27:00 -
[16]
Quote:
LOL! Thanks for proving my (now deleted) points!
Act your age?
¼©¼
a history |
Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2004.03.08 14:30:00 -
[17]
Some people just don't learn.
Discussing the actions of moderators is not permitted on the forum. You can argue till you're blue in the face about whether or not it SHOULD be; this isn't your forum, and nobody gives a good goddamn about what you think. It's not permitted, end of topic.
If you want to know something, or pass comment, about the moderation on these boards, email the staff as mentioned above, or find some other board to discuss it. This is not the place. If you're not happy with that answer - fine, go someplace else instead of EVE. CCP want to run their game this way, if you don't approve, stop paying them.
_______
"Soon" is an ancient Icelandic word meaning "some time before the next Ice Age." |
Jacob Molari
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Posted - 2004.03.08 14:33:00 -
[18]
Quote:
Some people just don't learn.
Discussing the actions of moderators is not permitted on the forum. You can argue till you're blue in the face about whether or not it SHOULD be; this isn't your forum, and nobody gives a good goddamn about what you think. It's not permitted, end of topic.
If you want to know something, or pass comment, about the moderation on these boards, email the staff as mentioned above, or find some other board to discuss it. This is not the place. If you're not happy with that answer - fine, go someplace else instead of EVE. CCP want to run their game this way, if you don't approve, stop paying them.
Polaris awards you 50 brownie points and two tech II BPs for your subservience...
Now go find yourself a big hunk of scordite and stare at it for a few hours... mmmm... scordite....
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Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2004.03.08 16:31:00 -
[19]
Quote:
Polaris awards you 50 brownie points and two tech II BPs for your subservience...
Nahh ... they'd only do that if I said I was happy about it. I'm just not stupid enough to post my complaints, cos I know it doesn't do any good.
Some people DO learn. 
_______
"Soon" is an ancient Icelandic word meaning "some time before the next Ice Age." |
pooti
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Posted - 2004.03.08 16:49:00 -
[20]
we need more polaris in game
..in ships we can destroy.
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Ronyo Dae'Loki
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Posted - 2004.03.08 16:53:00 -
[21]
Polaris = good, period.
Need the moderators, need the in-game help people. I've never seen a case where Polaris has been in the wrong, and I've been around since beta. (ok, ok, there was one time in early early release, but that hasn't happened since. And no, I'm not talking about it, so don't ask.)
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My salsa makes all the pretty girls want to dance and take off their underpants.
I <3 ( . Y . ) |
Eris Discordia
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Posted - 2004.03.08 16:56:00 -
[22]
Quote:
we need more polaris in game
..in ships we can destroy.
I like the idea, but for a different reason I suppose
Eris Discordia vs Orestes
As a sidenote, Polaris do play the game with normal characters, so you may have a few of our corpses allready.
Not mine though
I ♥ my pink dreadnought of pwnage
Mail [email protected] if you have any questions. |
Basileus
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Posted - 2004.03.08 17:09:00 -
[23]
Quote:
Before this is reviewed for locking I ask that participants in this thread not discuss Polaris' actions as that would be naughty for us paying customers to talk about the people we pay for a service.
Yes, this would be extremely naughty, wouldn't it? |
Wrangler
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Posted - 2004.03.08 19:55:00 -
[24]
Quote:
we need more polaris in game
..in ships we can destroy.
There are, it's called events. 
Quote:
I've never seen a case where Polaris has been in the wrong, and I've been around since beta.
Polaris isn't uber people, we do make mistakes, and I've written emails apologising for mistakes I've made, and for mistakes others made. But we don't make that many mistakes..
[Read the Rules!] - [Email the Moderators] |
Zraahd
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Posted - 2004.03.08 20:09:00 -
[25]
well since polaris isn't paid by CCP they save a lot of money. This money could go to having at least one GM on at all times in the game. Anyone ever check the help forum during the evening in the US (west coast) to see if there is a GM there? I have and you will not see one GM. They seem to only be on during the day here. That doesn't help those of us that actually work during the day on the west coast to make the money that pays for this game. |
GATORAN
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Posted - 2004.03.08 20:22:00 -
[26]
heh maybe a ccp without microsoft dreams :):):)
*read more in my ingame bio! Welcome |
Wrangler
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Posted - 2004.03.08 20:23:00 -
[27]
The GMs work mainly through petitions.
[Read the Rules!] - [Email the Moderators] |
Armetheus
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Posted - 2004.03.08 20:24:00 -
[28]
We aren't paid to moderate  but think of us as people whom enjoy this game to such an extent we feel somewhat obligated to give a little back.
EVE is fantastic - I'm enjoying it nowadays more than ever, and in frank helping make a difference on the boards that I'd otherwise still read as much as I do .
The people in Polaris are fantastic , modding is fun, and meeting all the other Polaris people is enjoyable
Forum Rules |
Traiben Mightius
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Posted - 2004.03.08 20:39:00 -
[29]
I think Polaris is an excellent idea and overall they do a great job and are generally pretty even-handed. It really seems that as of late there have been a growing number of locks/removes, but that is more of a symptom rather than the problem itself. And the real problem seems to be a recently growing dissatisfaction with the game without a real outlet to vent openly. The dissatisfaction get worse as we see changes made to the game dynamics without warning, mass account banning in the news without details of the how/why (so we can all avoid similar results), then as we try to discuss the topics get locked before any sort of resolution or real info comes out. Most of this isn't Polaris' fault, they are volunteers bound by the rules as we are.
Part of this, I'm sure, is the accessibility of these forums. Since these forums are open to the general public (not just Eve citizens) they are used as an advertisement to would-be players as well (sort of a "look at what you could be a part of!"). A lot of talk on people exploiting game mechanics, banning, etc does not make good advertising... but by the same token, nor does a series of lock/removes.
The way I see it there are two things that could help... 1.) Move the forums into Eve Insider so the community can be away from the prying eyes of on-lookers (that way we can act like animals without embarrassing CCP) ...or 2.) have a members-only, forum discussion board where moderation, questions about exploits etc CAN be discussed. Discuss them without using player names, but have a forum where we can voice our dissent and maybe learn the reasons behind why things are the way they are. That keeps our privacy without limiting our communication.
We all want to be part of this community; we all want our voices heard equally, we all want to get the most out of Eve and our $15/month. If an open discussion of the rules of the game and the community (even those that are unspoken) is not allowable, then the community as a whole loses something vital... the right to dissent.
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2004.03.08 20:56:00 -
[30]
Volunteer programs exist soley because companies don't want to actually pay people to moderate forums they also use volunteers so they don't have to hire as many GMs as well.
It's strictly a practice to save money.
Anyways, while I'm sure there's some good people in the CCP volunteer program there's also a few who well, aren't.
I think CCP just needs to keep an eye on forum mods and polaris more, it's gotten quite ridiculous over the last few weeks.
It seems as though the lock/delete/warn/ban bonanza has slowed down a bit though. Perhaps the new CSM guy has had a hand in that, I don't know for sure.
I don't like volunteer programs at all really, it's just a source of free labour for the game company and a way to swell players heads and egos by giving them some false notions of holding power over other players..
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
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