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goodby4u
Logistic Technologies Incorporated
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Posted - 2007.12.02 01:36:00 -
[1]
Ok,first off i know real life is different from eve so dont take this as a caldari or amarr"nerf or boost"but i found some funny things between the races that i'd like to share....Lets start with reactors.
gellente-fusion.
minmatar-fission.
amarr-antimatter.
caldari-graviton.
Ok,so first off you might think minmatar obviously have a weaker reactor then gellente,fusion being stronger then fission...It makes sense,However caldari appearently by the backstory have the weakest reactors,but it is known that graviton(or mini black holes)are very strong reactors(possibly even stronger then amarrs antimatter)...Soooo...Wtf?
So if you compare them you would end up with caldari>amarr>gellente>minmatar in the form of reactors(i'd say caldari is better then amarr because caldari can use any substance as fuel whereas amarr must use antimatter).
Now in the form of plating,i'll leave out gellente and minmatar for this one...
amarr-tungsten.
caldari-titanium.
Now this would be quite obvious,tungsten is dense and heat resistant,titanium is light,sharp,and strong...So since tungsten is so strong against heat damage(it stays solid at about 3,000C)wouldnt that make amarr strong against therm...And since titanium is weak against therm shouldnt caldari be the opposite?
Flame on(im amarr ya know)
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Tortun Nahme
Minmatar
Heimatar Services Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.12.02 01:45:00 -
[2]
well the power source information is essentiall a null discussion as the two main ones in question dont exist and are only theoretical, so they can define whichever they want as the most powerful (technically speaking antimatter power has infinite energy to the power of two so it "would" be more powerful)
as for the armor, tungsten is great on its own but doesnt do so well in alloys, where as titanium is the exact opposite (pure titanium is weak, brittle, and useless for armor)
 Originally by: Cecil Montague
They should change that warning on entering low sec to:
"Go read Crime and Punishment for a few days then come back."
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Jupiter Sun
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Posted - 2007.12.02 01:46:00 -
[3]
a small blackhole would explain why my caracal is so bloody heavy.
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Celeste Coeval
The Gosimer and Scarab
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Posted - 2007.12.02 01:48:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Jupiter Sun
a small blackhole would explain why my caracal is so bloody heavy.
Originally by: Death Kill
Go travel or live in the rainforest if neccesary, just dont turn to religion as its a cul de sac.
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goodby4u
Logistic Technologies Incorporated
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Posted - 2007.12.02 01:50:00 -
[5]
Edited by: goodby4u on 02/12/2007 01:51:04
Originally by: Tortun Nahme
well the power source information is essentiall a null discussion as the two main ones in question dont exist and are only theoretical, so they can define whichever they want as the most powerful (technically speaking antimatter power has infinite energy to the power of two so it "would" be more powerful)
as for the armor, tungsten is great on its own but doesnt do so well in alloys, where as titanium is the exact opposite (pure titanium is weak, brittle, and useless for armor)
Wish i still had the link but graviton theoretically is a stronger device by a very small number,the only problem is starting that engine and shovelling enough fuel in the keep it going.
And since the armors are"titanium and tungsten"i'll say its a given that it isnt an alloy...
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Tortun Nahme
Minmatar
Heimatar Services Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.12.02 01:52:00 -
[6]
er alloys are all artificial, and if its straight up titanium its definately the worst of the armors 
Originally by: Cecil Montague
They should change that warning on entering low sec to:
"Go read Crime and Punishment for a few days then come back."
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goodby4u
Logistic Technologies Incorporated
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Posted - 2007.12.02 02:11:00 -
[7]
Edited by: goodby4u on 02/12/2007 02:12:43
Originally by: Tortun Nahme
er alloys are all artificial, and if its straight up titanium its definately the worst of the armors
True but why would it be strong against thermal?...If it were even an alloy titanium is usually terrible when it comes to heat resistance.
Oh and the worst would be mercury at room temperature,not only would it suck for resistance but everybody in the ship would die if they decided to lick the walls.
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Arana Tellen
Gallente
The Blackguard Wolves
Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.12.02 02:16:00 -
[8]
Originally by: goodby4u
Edited by: goodby4u on 02/12/2007 02:12:43
Originally by: Tortun Nahme
er alloys are all artificial, and if its straight up titanium its definately the worst of the armors
True but why would it be strong against thermal?...If it were even an alloy titanium is usually terrible when it comes to heat resistance.
Oh and the worst would be mercury at room temperature,not only would it suck for resistance but everybody in the ship would die if they decided to lick the walls.
Actually some titanium alloys have excellent heat performance.
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Oh noes! |
goodby4u
Logistic Technologies Incorporated
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Posted - 2007.12.02 02:19:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Arana Tellen
Originally by: goodby4u
Edited by: goodby4u on 02/12/2007 02:12:43
Originally by: Tortun Nahme
er alloys are all artificial, and if its straight up titanium its definately the worst of the armors
True but why would it be strong against thermal?...If it were even an alloy titanium is usually terrible when it comes to heat resistance.
Oh and the worst would be mercury at room temperature,not only would it suck for resistance but everybody in the ship would die if they decided to lick the walls.
Actually some titanium alloys have excellent heat performance.
As good as tungsten?dont think so.
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Vitrael
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.12.02 02:21:00 -
[10]
Yes! The science of Eve capacitors is inconsistant with models of capacitors according to real-world physics!
Also, in Eve, space is a viscous liquid and hamburgers eat people!
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Jupiter Sun
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Posted - 2007.12.02 02:22:00 -
[11]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chobham_armour
yay britian \o/
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Paulo Damarr
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Posted - 2007.12.02 02:31:00 -
[12]
Graviton reactors are more efficient but necessarily more powerful, they can run on anything to even the ships garbage but the magnetic containment and shielding could explain the Caldari ships mass.
Fission in the future could be radically different in the future and a lot more efficient and with future technology perhaps fission needs very little shielding or the Minmatar either dont care about it much and just position crew areas away from the reactor.
You can argue all the points back and forwards without really getting anywhere as in Science fiction everything is made of uberanimum and unobtainium and then game balance always trumps reality so what hope does make believe reality stand?
But fluff wise Caldari, Angels, Sansha and Amarr are the leaders in technology.
Originally by: Tortun Nahme
CCP also condones thinking, I suggest you try it from tiem to time
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Ishan Mons
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Posted - 2007.12.02 03:57:00 -
[13]
Infrared Crystals increase EM damage and lower thermal damage... Infrared = thermal = heat... don't get me started on eve physics(especially of the LASER variety... its one of the reasons I can't fly amarr, besides the fact they suck)
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Freya Runestone
Minmatar
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2007.12.02 04:05:00 -
[14]
Originally by: goodby4u
Now in the form of plating,i'll leave out gellente and minmatar for this one...
I always wondered how Duct tape stacked up against tungsten resistance wise
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techzer0
IDLE GUNS
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Posted - 2007.12.02 04:17:00 -
[15]
One question on the armor part... other than the armor tanked raven and a few other oddball setups, and yes I looked... caldari base armor resist to thermal is 45% amarr 35%, but back to my question.
Since when do caldari armor tank?
____________________
Hi. I'm not an alt :) |
goodby4u
Logistic Technologies Incorporated
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Posted - 2007.12.02 05:37:00 -
[16]
Edited by: goodby4u on 02/12/2007 05:37:55
Originally by: techzer0
One question on the armor part... other than the armor tanked raven and a few other oddball setups, and yes I looked... caldari base armor resist to thermal is 45% amarr 35%, but back to my question.
Since when do caldari armor tank?
Obviously they do not,but titanium is extremely strong within its alloys,but in most forms its downfall is heat...Not necessarily because it melts but because it expands heavily due to it...Whereas the caldari armor is strong against heat.
I would talk about shield emitters but im ignorant in that area
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Fraszoid
Caldari
Condottieri Industries
The Economy
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Posted - 2007.12.02 06:11:00 -
[17]
Look at the power needs of the races ships; Caldari use heavy shield tanks and ECM which need a lot of power so they need a very powerful reactor, hence the Graviton reactor.
Amarr favour their lasers and armour tanks and need a fair bit to keep the lasers firing and the armour repping, so antimatter does the trick.
Gallente use drones and blasters primarily with an armour tank so they not need much power to run things, and use a clean efficient fusion reactor to power everything.
Minmatar on the other hand didn't have the luxury of being able to develop a proper ship and power supply, so they had to use their jury rigging skills and built make shift fission reactors, which is more than enough power for them, they use projectile weapons and missiles, with what ever tank they happen to be able to build.
Each race has a reactor that meets their needs.
Everyone is born right handed, only the great over come it.
Check out my players guide at:
http://www.eve-miners.info/guide/minersguide.html |
Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
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Posted - 2007.12.02 06:31:00 -
[18]
Originally by: goodby4u
Originally by: Arana Tellen
Originally by: goodby4u
Edited by: goodby4u on 02/12/2007 02:12:43
Originally by: Tortun Nahme
er alloys are all artificial, and if its straight up titanium its definately the worst of the armors
True but why would it be strong against thermal?...If it were even an alloy titanium is usually terrible when it comes to heat resistance.
Oh and the worst would be mercury at room temperature,not only would it suck for resistance but everybody in the ship would die if they decided to lick the walls.
Actually some titanium alloys have excellent heat performance.
As good as tungsten?dont think so.
LOL
That reminds me to people who say that carbon can't be used for anything which requires a certain hardness of material because graphite is very soft and therefore every carbon (not to mention alloys at all, just the pure Carbon, C) is soft.
They never heard of diamonts, which are pure C as well, just a different structure. They also have never heard of nanorods (-> ADNR) which are said to be even harder than diamonts and only discovered in the recent years!
So, even if you want to compare Eve with RL, then your reasoning is completely useless. Unless of course you elaborate why titanium never can have a useful heat performance as tungsten. And don't say that 'i think so'. And remember that example of the carbon from above. Are you really sure that there never will be any allotropes with excellent heat properties, that there will be never any alloy with good heat resistances?
And also don't forget that everything is about 'the best' material. Look at the real world how it works also. Certainly silver transmits currency better than copper and should be then therefore used in power supply lines, no? No, because the abundancy of silver is very poor compared with that of copper. So we use the second best material, which (considered the price and availability) turns out to be best!
Look at all the moons in the factions space, what material do they contain often? Riiiight, that material which the races use for their armors and other building...
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Caligulus
Eve University
Ivy League
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Posted - 2007.12.02 07:45:00 -
[19]
Theoretically speaking, fission will never be more powerful then fusion. Fusion is more powerful then fission by an order of several magnitudes.
Coinsidentally, check this real world fusion reactor project. Fusion power will be a very viable energy source in the next 50-80 years with near negligible environmental concerns when compared to a fission reactor.
ITER
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**** Name ONE thing that your windows comp can do that my MAC cant
**** Right click. |
goodby4u
Logistic Technologies Incorporated
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Posted - 2007.12.02 08:18:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Gnulpie
Originally by: goodby4u
Originally by: Arana Tellen
Originally by: goodby4u
Edited by: goodby4u on 02/12/2007 02:12:43
Originally by: Tortun Nahme
er alloys are all artificial, and if its straight up titanium its definately the worst of the armors
True but why would it be strong against thermal?...If it were even an alloy titanium is usually terrible when it comes to heat resistance.
Oh and the worst would be mercury at room temperature,not only would it suck for resistance but everybody in the ship would die if they decided to lick the walls.
Actually some titanium alloys have excellent heat performance.
As good as tungsten?dont think so.
LOL
That reminds me to people who say that carbon can't be used for anything which requires a certain hardness of material because graphite is very soft and therefore every carbon (not to mention alloys at all, just the pure Carbon, C) is soft.
They never heard of diamonts, which are pure C as well, just a different structure. They also have never heard of nanorods (-> ADNR) which are said to be even harder than diamonts and only discovered in the recent years!
So, even if you want to compare Eve with RL, then your reasoning is completely useless. Unless of course you elaborate why titanium never can have a useful heat performance as tungsten. And don't say that 'i think so'. And remember that example of the carbon from above. Are you really sure that there never will be any allotropes with excellent heat properties, that there will be never any alloy with good heat resistances?
And also don't forget that everything is about 'the best' material. Look at the real world how it works also. Certainly silver transmits currency better than copper and should be then therefore used in power supply lines, no? No, because the abundancy of silver is very poor compared with that of copper. So we use the second best material, which (considered the price and availability) turns out to be best!
Look at all the moons in the factions space, what material do they contain often? Riiiight, that material which the races use for their armors and other building...
Uhhh ok,first off i do agree with the statement"nothing is fixed"however titanium has several pesky problems when it comes to heat,one of which is its low melting point...As far as ive seen,heat resistant forms of titanium melt at 3100C whereas normal elemental tungsten can withstand 3400C.
The second one is expansion,way back when the USA used the"blackbird"which is a spy plane made of titanium...Now in their designs they had to make sure it leaked when it wasnt on,Do you know why?Because it would literally expand when the engines were on and become its normal size.
Obviously i cannot say without a shadow of a doubt that anything is better then something else,but according to these strengths and weaknesses why would caldari be resistant to heat?
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The EmperorMan
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Posted - 2007.12.03 06:49:00 -
[21]
caldari could be more resistant to heat because of the fact that tungsten is so dense so it wont cool off as fast as titanium and since space is cold it would allow the titanium to cool faster
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techzer0
IDLE GUNS
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Posted - 2007.12.03 06:58:00 -
[22]
Originally by: The EmperorMan
caldari could be more resistant to heat because of the fact that tungsten is so dense so it wont cool off as fast as titanium and since space is cold it would allow the titanium to cool faster
Simply put, caldari are resistant to heat because the guys are so ugly the wouldn't know what to do... and gallente have all the fun.
And amarr... well everyone just hates them
____________________
Hi. I'm not an alt :) |
James Duar
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.12.03 07:04:00 -
[23]
Interestingly though, blaster weapons as defined by the Gallente would actually do a lot of damage to tungsten armor because they'd oxidize it.
One of the great scams of the 20th century was Brown's gas, which is just H2 and O2 in the same bottle. It appears to cut tungsten "like butter" but the reality is that the H2/O2 combustion has a very high electron flux which degrades the tungsten and easily passes through it compared to if you were just relying on heat.
Since plasma is going to be electron rich, blasters would wreck it up.
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SonShadowCat
New Eden Communist Nation
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Posted - 2007.12.03 07:05:00 -
[24]
Originally by: The EmperorMan
caldari could be more resistant to heat because of the fact that tungsten is so dense so it wont cool off as fast as titanium and since space is cold it would allow the titanium to cool faster
Things in space do not "cool" off faster contrary to popular belief. The lack of an atmosphere/matter( space is not a total vacuum) means heat cannot transfer from one object to space since there isn't enough there to transfer to.
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techzer0
IDLE GUNS
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Posted - 2007.12.03 07:10:00 -
[25]
Originally by: James Duar
Interestingly though, blaster weapons as defined by the Gallente would actually do a lot of damage to tungsten armor because they'd oxidize it.
One of the great scams of the 20th century was Brown's gas, which is just H2 and O2 in the same bottle. It appears to cut tungsten "like butter" but the reality is that the H2/O2 combustion has a very high electron flux which degrades the tungsten and easily passes through it compared to if you were just relying on heat.
Since plasma is going to be electron rich, blasters would wreck it up.
And Blasters shoot fricken antimatter charges! Should wreck anyones day 
____________________
Hi. I'm not an alt :) |
Lyria Skydancer
Amarr
Uninvited Guests
Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.12.03 07:30:00 -
[26]
Originally by: goodby4u
Ok,first off i know real life is different from eve so dont take this as a caldari or amarr"nerf or boost"but i found some funny things between the races that i'd like to share....Lets start with reactors.
gellente-fusion.
minmatar-fission.
amarr-antimatter.
caldari-graviton.
Ok,so first off you might think minmatar obviously have a weaker reactor then gellente,fusion being stronger then fission...It makes sense,However caldari appearently by the backstory have the weakest reactors,but it is known that graviton(or mini black holes)are very strong reactors(possibly even stronger then amarrs antimatter)...Soooo...Wtf?
So if you compare them you would end up with caldari>amarr>gellente>minmatar in the form of reactors(i'd say caldari is better then amarr because caldari can use any substance as fuel whereas amarr must use antimatter).
Now in the form of plating,i'll leave out gellente and minmatar for this one...
amarr-tungsten.
caldari-titanium.
Now this would be quite obvious,tungsten is dense and heat resistant,titanium is light,sharp,and strong...So since tungsten is so strong against heat damage(it stays solid at about 3,000C)wouldnt that make amarr strong against therm...And since titanium is weak against therm shouldnt caldari be the opposite?
Flame on(im amarr ya know)
Actually graviton force is one of the weakest and is barely measurable. The reason why you think graviton/gravity is so powerful is because you can only see it working between huge masses like sun and earth, earth and moon etc. Thats why you think its strong but its actually very weak.
Antimatter most powerful, then fusion, then fission, last graviton. Yep.
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goodby4u
Logistic Technologies Incorporated
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Posted - 2007.12.03 08:34:00 -
[27]
Edited by: goodby4u on 03/12/2007 08:40:02
Edited by: goodby4u on 03/12/2007 08:37:00
Edited by: goodby4u on 03/12/2007 08:36:41
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: goodby4u
Ok,first off i know real life is different from eve so dont take this as a caldari or amarr"nerf or boost"but i found some funny things between the races that i'd like to share....Lets start with reactors.
gellente-fusion.
minmatar-fission.
amarr-antimatter.
caldari-graviton.
Ok,so first off you might think minmatar obviously have a weaker reactor then gellente,fusion being stronger then fission...It makes sense,However caldari appearently by the backstory have the weakest reactors,but it is known that graviton(or mini black holes)are very strong reactors(possibly even stronger then amarrs antimatter)...Soooo...Wtf?
So if you compare them you would end up with caldari>amarr>gellente>minmatar in the form of reactors(i'd say caldari is better then amarr because caldari can use any substance as fuel whereas amarr must use antimatter).
Now in the form of plating,i'll leave out gellente and minmatar for this one...
amarr-tungsten.
caldari-titanium.
Now this would be quite obvious,tungsten is dense and heat resistant,titanium is light,sharp,and strong...So since tungsten is so strong against heat damage(it stays solid at about 3,000C)wouldnt that make amarr strong against therm...And since titanium is weak against therm shouldnt caldari be the opposite?
Flame on(im amarr ya know)
Actually graviton force is one of the weakest and is barely measurable. The reason why you think graviton/gravity is so powerful is because you can only see it working between huge masses like sun and earth, earth and moon etc. Thats why you think its strong but its actually very weak.
Antimatter most powerful, then fusion, then fission, last graviton. Yep.
True graviton engines are quite small and gravity in most situations is weak,the graviton engine(being a black hole)is much stronger then you might think..I really wish i had the link i read it from but the power output of a graviton engine vs antimatter would=graviton engine being .001 to the sixteenth power stronger(both engines being the size of a nuclear power plant's reactor)..
I believe it was something like 9.001 to the sixteenth power for a graviton engine...Ofcourse both antimatter and graviton engines are all theory so it could go either way.
As for the"tungsten cannot release heat"thats true on earth,but in space things are different...And sadly if titanium received that much heat it would expand heavily then split(which i assure you isnt good in space).
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
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Posted - 2007.12.03 08:39:00 -
[28]
Originally by: techzer0
Originally by: James Duar
Interestingly though, blaster weapons as defined by the Gallente would actually do a lot of damage to tungsten armor because they'd oxidize it.
One of the great scams of the 20th century was Brown's gas, which is just H2 and O2 in the same bottle. It appears to cut tungsten "like butter" but the reality is that the H2/O2 combustion has a very high electron flux which degrades the tungsten and easily passes through it compared to if you were just relying on heat.
Since plasma is going to be electron rich, blasters would wreck it up.
And Blasters shoot fricken antimatter charges! Should wreck anyones day
getting hit with antimatter isnt very fun :(
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Sheriff Jones
Amarr
Please Enter Password
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Posted - 2007.12.03 08:47:00 -
[29]
That's 21 thousand years in the future.
Around 420 times our latest "high tech discovery age", if you take the past 50 years or so.
And it's in a whole new universe, where they started from scratch at one point. Tech wise, not smart wise. So, what does that tell?
Things may have same names, but are from different materials altogether.
Platings may not be pure blends.
Reactors could be efficiently or inefficiently built. The caldari may nto know all about gravitons, and Amarr might know MORE about anti-matter. Not to mention, in 21.000 years, all you know will be completely different.
These kind of 21st century vs 21st millenia discussions are a bit, well, pleh.
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
goodby4u
Logistic Technologies Incorporated
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Posted - 2007.12.03 08:49:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Sheriff Jones
That's 21 thousand years in the future.
Around 420 times our latest "high tech discovery age", if you take the past 50 years or so.
And it's in a whole new universe, where they started from scratch at one point. Tech wise, not smart wise. So, what does that tell?
Things may have same names, but are from different materials altogether.
Platings may not be pure blends.
Reactors could be efficiently or inefficiently built. The caldari may nto know all about gravitons, and Amarr might know MORE about anti-matter. Not to mention, in 21.000 years, all you know will be completely different.
These kind of 21st century vs 21st millenia discussions are a bit, well, pleh.
You make my head hurt.
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