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half the jump clone cooldown?

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Sicil Fioet Minmatar	Posted - 2007.12.03 03:53:00 - [31] 3 hours would be perfect, 12 hours would be better than 24 we have right now. I don't really see how shortening clone jump timer would be abuse of anything as most people don't play more than 3 hours per day anyhow. The timer that we got now is a bit annoying as it has a tendency of making you stuck the entire next day at some location to which you really had to jump previous night to do something for just a few hours. Next day you log on in the morning and find out you have to just hang around all the way until late night to make the jump back.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.12.03 03:55:00 - [32] Jump Clones are not supposed to remove the need to travel to get to places. You want to operate in both 0.0 and Empire? Either wait the 24 hours, or face the gatecamps. Reducing the timer would be ********. Might as well just add in instant travel from Oblivion. - I wish I was a three foot female doll with a watering can and heterochromatic eyes.
Shaemell Buttleson Darwin With Attitude oooh Shiny	Posted - 2007.12.03 04:11:00 - [33] I think there should be a skill to reduce the cooldown between jumps. Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
Sicil Fioet Minmatar	Posted - 2007.12.03 04:17:00 - [34] Originally by: Crumplecorn Jump Clones are not supposed to remove the need to travel to get to places. You want to operate in both 0.0 and Empire? Either wait the 24 hours, or face the gatecamps. Reducing the timer would be ********. Might as well just add in instant travel from Oblivion. You still have to travel to haul anything from point A to point B. Gate campers are more interested in your cargo and ship than travelers in empty shuttles which is equivalent to them jump cloning. Most they can hope for is catching and ransoming your pod, and a lot of people plug in cheap sets of implants if they use the clone to travel in 0.0 - overall campers have little to gain from this and individual player loses a lot of game time with idle traveling. If you travel with your jump clone you lose the ability to jump to the same location the next time, and your corp/alliance might require that you keep a jump clone at certain location in 0.0 at all time should the need arise for you to jump and join a gang. Traveling to empire and back to 0.0 can take hours and game time for most of us is limited. This is why so many people in this thread support the idea of shortening the timer :P
flaming phantom Minmatar Tyrell Corp INTERDICTION	Posted - 2007.12.03 06:06:00 - [35] i agree making it lowered to 12-20 hours, either just changing it or making a skill. casue i hate it when i jump up to empire at the end of night to buy something, and then i could jump back the next day but since its at end of night, i wont be able to do anything and in effect i have to wait 2 days to do anything again.
Cyberman Mastermind	Posted - 2007.12.03 06:26:00 - [36] Originally by: Crumplecorn Jump Clones are not supposed to remove the need to travel to get to places. ?? Then what are they for? You don't think they only exist so you can jump into an empty clone before PVP, do you? Even the background stories suggest they're for fast travel. -- I'd be for a skill. Even a reduction of mere 4 hours would be sufficient to me. -------------------------------------------------- I'm a rich person. How I know? I can afford to be a miner.
Lord Eremet	Posted - 2007.12.03 07:26:00 - [37] NO, as in Not signed. Not even halved. 24 hours is the timer and it should stay so. You may find the restriction timer boring and want it to go but its there for a reason. Continue below if you feel you have the time to read why. Before the jumpclone system was implemented in EVE there was a big discussion spawning several pages of the effect jumpclones would have on the game. Originally CCP wanted players to jumpclone around without restrictions so they could pvp more. The more farsighted players however realized it would have more negative effects then positive, thus CCP put in a timer after listening to their concerns. 2 examples: If people was allowed to jump around freely whenever they wanted to they could avoid wars in one end of the empire by simply jumping to another end. Hardcore Carebears would just jumpclone away at first sign of trouble and the pvpers would have none to shoot. Chasing them around empire wouldn't be an option either. and A dedicated group of Hardcore Pvpers could dominate a large area of 0.0 by leaving ships and gear at strategic locations with their clones and jumpclone there whenever a threat to their domain showed itself. Thus they wouldn't need a homebase. If you think its hard now for small alliances and industrial corps to live in their own small patch of 0.0 then it would get worse. //Erem
Bohoba Caldari The Dragons Den	Posted - 2007.12.03 07:43:00 - [38] I think they just need to remove them altogether it's getting to easy to move around. The Dark Force is strong in EvE But it will fail Get Into the Game it makes it fun for all
Sergeant Spot Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.12.03 08:44:00 - [39] While I happily use Jump clones, and will continue to do so as long as they are in game, I was against them from the start. While a shorter timer would be useful for me, and I WILL use it if it gets in game, I'll suggest "no" on this one. Play nice while you butcher each other.
Ovno ConSyquence Amarr The Plebians	Posted - 2007.12.03 09:24:00 - [40] /Signed Though i'd say 18 hours would be a more happy medium, that way you can jump at the end of one nioght and the start of the next, which is all players want really And to all of those saying no you could move to quickly or whatever, i already can, i just set my cloning sations and pod myself, so how does me not having to kill myself to do it change anything, hell we could even up the install cost to match the price of your medical clone, that way it would even cost you the same but i wouldn't have to kill myself, its just silly the way it is...

Lord DerekSegan	Posted - 2007.12.03 09:26:00 - [41] Interesting... I could see a short time being BADLY abused. I could see hardcore PVPers using it to gank the HECK of out smaller corps. However, it is VERY VERY annoying that it is 24 hours. Even 20 hours would be better. Hello
jam6549 eXceed Inc.	Posted - 2007.12.03 09:34:00 - [42] make it so!
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2007.12.03 09:48:00 - [43] I'd like to propose doubling the jumpclone cooldown. Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav! Also Known As
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.12.03 10:26:00 - [44] Originally by: Danton Marcellus I'd like to propose doubling the jumpclone cooldown. Seconded. I'd rather see them removed all together though. Then again, I never was a fan of "Project Rebirth", as anyone who goes back to read the old threads would soon realise. Jump Clones are a mechanic put in place to mitigate risk, and that sucks. Eve-Online: The Text Adventure
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2007.12.03 10:37:00 - [45] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Danton Marcellus I'd like to propose doubling the jumpclone cooldown. Seconded. I'd rather see them removed all together though. Then again, I never was a fan of "Project Rebirth", as anyone who goes back to read the old threads would soon realise. Jump Clones are a mechanic put in place to mitigate risk, and that sucks. I'm pretty sure it was called 'Project G@ylord'. Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav! Also Known As
Ovno ConSyquence Amarr The Plebians	Posted - 2007.12.03 10:40:00 - [46] Originally by: Avon Jump Clones are a mechanic put in place to mitigate risk, and that sucks. What risk was that then, the risk that you have to kill yourself to travel quicker???
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2007.12.03 10:44:00 - [47] Originally by: Ovno ConSyquence Originally by: Avon Jump Clones are a mechanic put in place to mitigate risk, and that sucks. What risk was that then, the risk that you have to kill yourself to travel quicker??? That should have been fixed not catered to, people self-destructing the pods should've risked skillpoint losses. Chalk that down any way you like from an RP angle, post traumatic stress from the successful suicide or whatnot. Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav! Also Known As
Laechyd Eldgorn Caldari Karjala Inc. Onnenpyora	Posted - 2007.12.03 10:45:00 - [48] First I thought no. But then 24h is kind of annoying, make it a bit less. Lets say I JC at 01:00am somewhere. I'd like to JC back a bit earlier. Maybe like 18-20h. I think 12h isn't enough though. There's obvious danger people would just jump somewhere to pew pew and jump back.
Fester Addams Minmatar	Posted - 2007.12.03 10:47:00 - [49] The timer is in there to prevent people from using jump clones in just the way you wish to have jump clone times altered to allow. Jump clones are ingame mainly to allow people to fast be able to get back "home" to protect their 0.0 systems. It is not ingame to allow you to have a combat clone with one set of implants and one downtime clone with +5 implants. It is not ingame to allow fast travel between where you usually play and Jita. It is not ingame to allow you to jump between R&D agents to do the dailly missions. It is not ingame to allow you to jump to your production site and manage this. Its sole reason is to allow you to dock and instantly get back home in the case of a PC attack, 24hrs later you simply jump back to your main clone and keep going. 24hrs is harch, yes but cut the time down much further and you will be able to effectivelly have a training clone (wich is the one I am most against), it is possible lowering the timer to 20hrs wont make this a problem but the fact is if they lower it by 4hrs now we all know the requests for further lowering will just grow louder and as they then already have lowered it they are in a poor position to put their foot down. This will leed to people demanding it to be lowered and lowered and lowered untill the timer is so short you may as well remove it completelly. Keep it at 24hrs, with planning 24hrs works fine.
Ovno ConSyquence Amarr The Plebians	Posted - 2007.12.03 10:57:00 - [50] Originally by: Danton Marcellus Originally by: Ovno ConSyquence Originally by: Avon Jump Clones are a mechanic put in place to mitigate risk, and that sucks. What risk was that then, the risk that you have to kill yourself to travel quicker??? That should have been fixed not catered to, people self-destructing the pods should've risked skillpoint losses. Chalk that down any way you like from an RP angle, post traumatic stress from the successful suicide or whatnot. Because people wouldn't then have just got their mates to kill them instead then would they...

N1fty Amarr Galactic Shipyards Inc HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2007.12.03 11:05:00 - [51] Edited by: N1fty on 03/12/2007 11:07:17 'Halve' And no I don't think it should be. Clonejumping is supposed to be a choice between say, empire activities and 0.0 activities in any 24hr period. Furthermore if you could jump to a SuperCap's clone vat bay too frequently it could make for some seriously broken game mechanics where entire fleets fight in the north during the morning, then in the south during the evening. Wheres the logistics in that?! If you have 4 clones with different implant sets for different ships / playstyles, it shouldn't be that you can change these styles at whim. You have specialised yourself into these areas and the tradeoff for that it a certain degree of flexibility. As ever in EvE its a tradeoff between two things. á ============================================
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2007.12.03 11:11:00 - [52] Originally by: Ovno ConSyquence Originally by: Danton Marcellus Originally by: Ovno ConSyquence Originally by: Avon Jump Clones are a mechanic put in place to mitigate risk, and that sucks. What risk was that then, the risk that you have to kill yourself to travel quicker??? That should have been fixed not catered to, people self-destructing the pods should've risked skillpoint losses. Chalk that down any way you like from an RP angle, post traumatic stress from the successful suicide or whatnot. Because people wouldn't then have just got their mates to kill them instead then would they... Yes but then at least there would be some multiplaying going on. Also wasting the money on clones getting destroyed would become a deterant as would the issue with implants. Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav! Also Known As
Kayna Eelai Gallente Shadow Legion Covenant Paxton Federation	Posted - 2007.12.03 11:25:00 - [53] i see people agreeing and disagreeing. i understand both points of view... but some pvper said "it's there so you can jump to your 0.0 home to defend your base against attack" and this is fine and good... but look at my example: people with school/job play afternoons... let's say from 18:00 - 00:00 now, you are asked to JC to your homebase at 23:00, you jump back, spend some time there helping, and go to bed. next day, you arrive home, login the game, it's 18:00 ... and you're stuck in your homebase for another 4 hours without any enemies to kill or anything to do... what do you do? you get a shuttle and spend 2 hours of your 4 hours gametime jumping back to where you were PLUS by doing this you leave no jumpclone at home... so... ok, don't 50% the JC cooldown, but maybe 18-20h. like some1 suggested? and i would like to ask all the pvp complainers to look out of the box and stop thinking just about their own bellybutton, but think in general. it's not the end of the world if they kill 99 guys instead 100. and it's not the end of the world either to get some locator agents if your target clone jumps. and yes, it's not the end of the world having a 24h. cooldown on the jump clones, but if you look at my example, you'll have to agree that wasting most of your available gametime in a shuttle, just because you clone jumped at 23:00 the day before... is lame. (specially if it actually served NOTHING as my defense gang was canceled due LAG, which is CCPs fault, lol) fixed to 23.15 kB (23710 bytes)
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.12.03 11:30:00 - [54] Edited by: Crumplecorn on 03/12/2007 11:35:37 Edited by: Crumplecorn on 03/12/2007 11:35:04 Originally by: Sicil Fioet You still have to travel to haul anything from point A to point B. If you really are operating in two seperate areas, you won't be hauling between them. Originally by: Sicil Fioet Gate campers are more interested in your cargo and ship than travelers in empty shuttles which is equivalent to them jump cloning. Most they can hope for is catching and ransoming your pod, and a lot of people plug in cheap sets of implants if they use the clone to travel in 0.0 - overall campers have little to gain from this and individual player loses a lot of game time with idle traveling. Highlighted part is the point Originally by: Sicil Fioet If you travel with your jump clone you lose the ability to jump to the same location the next time, and your corp/alliance might require that you keep a jump clone at certain location in 0.0 at all time should the need arise for you to jump and join a gang. Should'a thought of that when you joined, eh? Originally by: Sicil Fioet Traveling to empire and back to 0.0 can take hours and game time for most of us is limited. Automatic Epic Fail for suggesting that EVE be made to cater to those who can't play much. Yes, it may take you your entire gametime 1 day to get where you are going. EVE is big. If you want instant action or whatever, go play an FPS. You're supposed to work for things in EVE. Originally by: Kayna Eelai people with school/job play afternoons... let's say from 18:00 - 00:00 now, you are asked to JC to your homebase at 23:00, you jump back, spend some time there helping, and go to bed. next day, you arrive home, login the game, it's 18:00 ... and you're stuck in your homebase for another 4 hours without any enemies to kill or anything to do... what do you do? you get a shuttle and spend 2 hours of your 4 hours gametime jumping back to where you were PLUS by doing this you leave no jumpclone at home... Too bad. EVE != Instant Gratification. I can't believe there are people in this thread complaining because they might have to wait 1 whole day to get somewhere. Try hauling high-value cargo through frequently camped systems with only the same window to makes attempts each day. Also, I /sign on removing them. They shouldn't exist. - I wish I was a three foot female doll with a watering can and heterochromatic eyes.
Roemy Schneider BINFORD Solidus Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.03 11:37:00 - [55] 24h really screws with regular online times. 20h would suit a "once per day" description much better - putting the gist back into logistics
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.12.03 12:01:00 - [56] Originally by: Roemy Schneider 24h really screws with regular online times. 20h would suit a "once per day" description much better How is making it possible to jump clone twice a day more like jumping "once per day" than jumping once every 24hrs? I know where you guys are comming from, I really do. It would improve my gameplay if I could jump once every 20hrs too .. but is that improvement better for the game? I think not. Jump clones already allow too much power projection, and I use the sytem to the maximum. Even so, I still find myself using the old podding myself method too. The difference then is that I have to actually consider the costs involved, and make a value judgement on how important it is that I am somewhere else. Is that jump worth 14+ million isk for a clone, and the loss of whatever implants my current clone has? Sometimes it is, and I do it. Progressive reduction of the timer (and it would be foolish to think that if the timer was reduced to 20hrs we would not in the future have calls to reduce that) serves only to help mitigate risk and cost .. and that serves to reduce the value of the game itself. At the extreme end of the scale, would a lossless, riskless, Eve be as much fun as it currently is? If you agree that it would not, where do you draw the line between how much of that risk you are willing to sacrifice, how much of the meaning which makes Eve fun, in order to facilitate the ease of your own personal playstyle? I don't like things being made easier for the sake of personal desire if it has a negative impact on the whole precept of the harsh enviroment Eve is meant to be. The fun comes from overcoming the difficulties, the risks, the cost, not in spite of them. Eve-Online: The Text Adventure
Fester Addams Minmatar	Posted - 2007.12.03 12:07:00 - [57] Originally by: Kayna Eelai i see people agreeing and disagreeing. i understand both points of view... but some pvper said "it's there so you can jump to your 0.0 home to defend your base against attack" and this is fine and good... but look at my example: ... Neat, while I am not sure that I am the player you are refering too it may very well be possible that I am considering my post. Ok firstly... Me a PvPer? Dont make me laugh, I admit I have done some PvP back in the Blue Pill days, I did decently I supose for a rookie but I lost my ship in most engagements. I find PvP interesting but the game mechanics do not support it in a way that I enjoy much and thus I do it very little. As for your example... Its a perfect example of why the timer has been set to 24hrs, it shows that going home to protect your holdings is somthing to be done with thought. If 3 cruisers start hunting your miners it may not be prudent to clone back home, if however a capital fleet is taking down your POSes it may be. As for being "stuck" for a few hours back in your home base... If you cant find somthing usefull to do in your homebase you might consider moving it. After a sizable attack I expect cleaning upp and reorganizing the home base will take some time, POS shields needing to be put back upp, new guns anchored... And in any case having the fleet at home may very well be a good idea, I meen people who safespotted and logged will pop back and there is the possibility of following the attackers for a retalatory strike. In any case, having the possibility to jump home fast is a very good opportunity, back in the day before jump clones it was very hard to engage the enemy at their home as this would leave you open to attack, and like it or not CCP's main interest lies in 0.0 warfare and PvP. For me the jump clones are even better, I can use them exactly in the way I say is the wrong way to use them however I make sure I have things to do in each end while the cooldown is ticking.
Vardemis Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.12.03 12:23:00 - [58] I think the 24h are a bit short already, reducing it even more, would enable a lot of people to reduce risk even more. If you cannot afford to lose the implants you have, why did you bother with them in the first place? - Vardemis
Kayna Eelai Gallente Shadow Legion Covenant Paxton Federation	Posted - 2007.12.03 12:51:00 - [59] well i think we have two different opinions and concept crashing at each other... the people against the cooldown reduction are talking about risk all the time. the people for it, are talking about TIME. comming back to my previous example: i don't care about the risk i run by shuttling myself back 25 jumps through 0.0 and lowsec... it's the time i waste doing this, just because i dared to clone jump at 23:00 to try and help in a defensive OP, that got cancelled due massive lag. fixed to 23.15 kB (23710 bytes)
Dlardrageth Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2007.12.03 13:12:00 - [60] Bring in the heat! Get a complexity 6 skill which offers a time redux of 2 hours per level (call it "Clone Pimping"? ) and set as prerequisite Thermodynamics Level 5. Oh, noes, forget that, then another whine-fest about how notoriously difficult it is to train up Thermodyn will ensue...



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