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Vindicator/Navy megathron (discusion, not setups)

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Gladiator Jonny Omniscient Order	Posted - 2007.12.02 17:15:00 - [1] Im not here to ask/offer setups, im not here to ask or say which is "the better" of the two. What i am curious about is will their be a use for these ships after the kronos? I want a vindicator. Several reasons for this however, with the incoming bonus change and kronos is their actually a point other than looking like teh pimp. Navy megathron --> even after the changes, i think its still gonna get used for what it does best. Plate and gank. Vindicator --> Cap bonus + speed/agility + slot layout basically forces an active tank. Less cap + Kronos soon to be on scene for a similar price tag, what reason is their for the vindicator? Now this is not a complain thread, its just im hoping someone knows something i dont Gonna be sad to waste these ships if a "Mission ship" can pvp (damage + tank) better than a faction pvp ship. Other tham the skill requirements, what reason is their for flying one over a kronos.
Odda Gallente Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.12.02 17:22:00 - [2] Edited by: Odda on 02/12/2007 17:23:27 Edited by: Odda on 02/12/2007 17:23:10 Whel Vindicators are the best i think try to pimp them out with faction\officer stuff. Its beter to gett a tier3 bs (they tank bether) if you dont go for a faction\officer fitt. A Vindi is also a hard ship to fly it also sucks to lose one. So pratice a LOT in a megathron or any other blaster ships. The vindi is a spec ship and wil not be any beter then a megathron if you suck. So train all your skils to max. Watch this movie: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=307529 And this movie http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=344707 and maby this: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=509369 Live and learn, they are realy realy coool ships, you just need to pratice!
Gladiator Jonny Omniscient Order	Posted - 2007.12.02 18:05:00 - [3] I know how to pvp mate, Isk aint the thing im worried about, its the fact that the faction pvp ships are going to be out classed by the t2 mission ships in both tank and gank. Gank navy mega might stand up damage wish but, neutrons + vindicator is unrealistic. not looked at those links but i can bet ive seen em
Kuzya Morozov Gallente Organized Combat Consortium	Posted - 2007.12.02 18:16:00 - [4] Originally by: Gladiator Jonny Im not here to ask/offer setups, im not here to ask or say which is "the better" of the two. What i am curious about is will their be a use for these ships after the kronos? I want a vindicator. Several reasons for this however, with the incoming bonus change and kronos is their actually a point other than looking like teh pimp. Navy megathron --> even after the changes, i think its still gonna get used for what it does best. Plate and gank. Vindicator --> Cap bonus + speed/agility + slot layout basically forces an active tank. Less cap + Kronos soon to be on scene for a similar price tag, what reason is their for the vindicator? Now this is not a complain thread, its just im hoping someone knows something i dont Gonna be sad to waste these ships if a "Mission ship" can pvp (damage + tank) better than a faction pvp ship. Other tham the skill requirements, what reason is their for flying one over a kronos. OH SHI lol you are the guy in the navy mega from Hysera! hahah wow small universe
FraXy 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.12.02 18:17:00 - [5] As been mentioned the Navy Mega is built for Neutron gank fitting with more HP and 8.th low for 3.rd Mag Stab. Vindicator is built for active-tanking with standard tank, 2 mag stabs and sensor booster. Over the two or even over the Kronos i`d take the Vindi every day of the week. Simply because the cap bonus is just awesome. Allows Mwd to be run for 2.5 minutes before needing to inject, built-in agility makes it the perfect for getting into range (Electron/Ion fits) and cap-buffer is excellent for sporting 2 reps. One man's junk is FraXy's choice of weapon to kill you with.
Shiken Kan	Posted - 2007.12.02 18:20:00 - [6] Edited by: Shiken Kan on 02/12/2007 18:21:18 imo with the introduction of t2 bs the faction ones start to suffer the same as cruisers and frigs, ie no special role and not king of the hill in their class but with a pricetag that would warrant it. Hopefully all get some kind of loving from ccp as they did with the sanshas, though serpentis and angel are pretty decent already. The advantage i'd still see with faction ships is the low sensor strangth of marauders which could lead them to be pretty useless with the upcoming availability of ecm ships.
Hephaesteus Gallente	Posted - 2007.12.02 18:27:00 - [7] Originally by: FraXy As been mentioned the Navy Mega is built for Neutron gank fitting with more HP and 8.th low for 3.rd Mag Stab. Vindicator is built for active-tanking with standard tank, 2 mag stabs and sensor booster. Over the two or even over the Kronos i`d take the Vindi every day of the week. Simply because the cap bonus is just awesome. Allows Mwd to be run for 2.5 minutes before needing to inject, built-in agility makes it the perfect for getting into range (Electron/Ion fits) and cap-buffer is excellent for sporting 2 reps. Kronos and 3 med energy neuts and 4 neutron blasters is awesome so long as you have a tackler to hold your target ships down. I tried it on sisi and man that ship is the best.
FraXy 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.12.02 18:29:00 - [8] Originally by: Hephaesteus Originally by: FraXy As been mentioned the Navy Mega is built for Neutron gank fitting with more HP and 8.th low for 3.rd Mag Stab. Vindicator is built for active-tanking with standard tank, 2 mag stabs and sensor booster. Over the two or even over the Kronos i`d take the Vindi every day of the week. Simply because the cap bonus is just awesome. Allows Mwd to be run for 2.5 minutes before needing to inject, built-in agility makes it the perfect for getting into range (Electron/Ion fits) and cap-buffer is excellent for sporting 2 reps. Kronos and 3 med energy neuts and 4 neutron blasters is awesome so long as you have a tackler to hold your target ships down. I tried it on sisi and man that ship is the best. Then you meet a Sacrilege with 3x Hornet EC-300... Nerf those damn ECM drones. Too bloody overpowered. They have been ever since they got released and needs to get a bloody nerfbat! One man's junk is FraXy's choice of weapon to kill you with.
Gladiator Jonny Omniscient Order	Posted - 2007.12.02 18:29:00 - [9] Originally by: Kuzya Morozov OH SHI lol you are the guy in the navy mega from Hysera! hahah wow small universe You might have the wrong person mate
Hephaesteus Gallente	Posted - 2007.12.02 18:36:00 - [10] Originally by: FraXy Originally by: Hephaesteus Originally by: FraXy As been mentioned the Navy Mega is built for Neutron gank fitting with more HP and 8.th low for 3.rd Mag Stab. Vindicator is built for active-tanking with standard tank, 2 mag stabs and sensor booster. Over the two or even over the Kronos i`d take the Vindi every day of the week. Simply because the cap bonus is just awesome. Allows Mwd to be run for 2.5 minutes before needing to inject, built-in agility makes it the perfect for getting into range (Electron/Ion fits) and cap-buffer is excellent for sporting 2 reps. Kronos and 3 med energy neuts and 4 neutron blasters is awesome so long as you have a tackler to hold your target ships down. I tried it on sisi and man that ship is the best. Then you meet a Sacrilege with 3x Hornet EC-300... Nerf those damn ECM drones. Too bloody overpowered. They have been ever since they got released and needs to get a bloody nerfbat! Did you deliberately not read the bit I said about needing a tackler because instead of web, scram, mwd and cap booster you have to sacrifice one mod for an Eccm mod Apart from that tho the Kronos is great
FraXy 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.12.02 18:45:00 - [11] Originally by: Hephaesteus Originally by: FraXy Originally by: Hephaesteus Originally by: FraXy As been mentioned the Navy Mega is built for Neutron gank fitting with more HP and 8.th low for 3.rd Mag Stab. Vindicator is built for active-tanking with standard tank, 2 mag stabs and sensor booster. Over the two or even over the Kronos i`d take the Vindi every day of the week. Simply because the cap bonus is just awesome. Allows Mwd to be run for 2.5 minutes before needing to inject, built-in agility makes it the perfect for getting into range (Electron/Ion fits) and cap-buffer is excellent for sporting 2 reps. Kronos and 3 med energy neuts and 4 neutron blasters is awesome so long as you have a tackler to hold your target ships down. I tried it on sisi and man that ship is the best. Then you meet a Sacrilege with 3x Hornet EC-300... Nerf those damn ECM drones. Too bloody overpowered. They have been ever since they got released and needs to get a bloody nerfbat! Did you deliberately not read the bit I said about needing a tackler because instead of web, scram, mwd and cap booster you have to sacrifice one mod for an Eccm mod Apart from that tho the Kronos is great If you have ever been on the receiving end of someone with golden hair in their, eh, yeah. Then you would understand having ECCM mean nothing. I`ll assume Kronos got 12 strength and with 96% ECCM that is 23.5 strength, a Vindicator got 23 strength. In a fight i had vs 7 ships i was jammed 5/7 minutes by having some flights of ecm drones on me. I checked the fraps and 5 minutes of 7 minutes fighting is correct. 300 out of 420 seconds i was jammed. 15/21 cycles. One man's junk is FraXy's choice of weapon to kill you with.
Djerin Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.12.02 18:45:00 - [12] Originally by: Gladiator Jonny its the fact that the faction pvp ships are going to be out classed by the t2 mission ships in both tank and gank. If you're using the Kronos the same way you're used to be flying your Vindi/Navy Mega i recon it will have only three advantages: no need for dual web, better resists and less ammo-consumption. It lacks both tracking and MWD bonus. So i think it wont be be THAT much better than Vindi/Navy Mega in the role of a blasterboat. ---- Sarmaul's crosstrainorgtfo
Kuzya Morozov Gallente Organized Combat Consortium	Posted - 2007.12.02 18:49:00 - [13] nonono i'm pretty sure you dropped into hysera now and then
Gladiator Jonny Omniscient Order	Posted - 2007.12.02 18:49:00 - [14] Originally by: Djerin Originally by: Gladiator Jonny its the fact that the faction pvp ships are going to be out classed by the t2 mission ships in both tank and gank. If you're using the Kronos the same way you're used to be flying your Vindi/Navy Mega i recon it will have only three advantages: no need for dual web, better resists and less ammo-consumption. It lacks both tracking and MWD bonus. So i think it wont be be THAT much better than Vindi/Navy Mega in the role of a blasterboat. With the web bonus, you dont really need the tracking bonus tbh, so that equals it out in my eyes. What the kronos is left with is similar/more damage. More cap (4 guns > 7) and 3 utility high slots for nos/etc. The "nerf" to the vindicator doesnt help either, But then it comes down to cost, versatility etc.
Gladiator Jonny Omniscient Order	Posted - 2007.12.02 18:51:00 - [15] Originally by: Kuzya Morozov nonono i'm pretty sure you dropped into hysera now and then I dont actually have a navy mega atm sold it months back so, cant be me matey
Hephaesteus Gallente	Posted - 2007.12.02 19:13:00 - [16] Originally by: FraXy Originally by: Hephaesteus Originally by: FraXy Originally by: Hephaesteus Originally by: FraXy If you have ever been on the receiving end of someone with golden hair in their, eh, yeah. Then you would understand having ECCM mean nothing. I`ll assume Kronos got 12 strength and with 96% ECCM that is 23.5 strength, a Vindicator got 23 strength. In a fight i had vs 7 ships i was jammed 5/7 minutes by having some flights of ecm drones on me. I checked the fraps and 5 minutes of 7 minutes fighting is correct. 300 out of 420 seconds i was jammed. 15/21 cycles. yeah in gang fights Ecm drones can be problematic. That said though Kronos has spare highs for smarties remote reppers and Nuets. Problem solved.
Gabriel Karade Nulli-Secundus	Posted - 2007.12.02 19:18:00 - [17] Originally by: Djerin Originally by: Gladiator Jonny its the fact that the faction pvp ships are going to be out classed by the t2 mission ships in both tank and gank. If you're using the Kronos the same way you're used to be flying your Vindi/Navy Mega i recon it will have only three advantages: no need for dual web, better resists and less ammo-consumption. It lacks both tracking and MWD bonus. So i think it wont be be THAT much better than Vindi/Navy Mega in the role of a blasterboat. It has the same tracking bonus, albeit stapled onto the back of a rank 10 skill (), plus don't forget that armour repair bonus... Of course it has that EW hole, 3 Heavy drones compared to 5, less capacitor than the Vindicator... going to be interesting to see how the market pans out, personally I'd just have all three (well, aside from needing Flying Scrapheap level V for the blasted Vindicator ) ---------- Video - 'War-Machine'
Gabriel Karade Nulli-Secundus	Posted - 2007.12.02 19:21:00 - [18] Oh and incidentally, to anyone wanting to off-load their Vindicators due to the upcoming 'nerf' - I'll gladly take them off your hands for lets say, 200M (afterall it's going to be no better than a Megathron...) ---------- Video - 'War-Machine'
Gladiator Jonny Omniscient Order	Posted - 2007.12.03 16:47:00 - [19] Their has to be more opinions out their
Ione Hunt 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.12.03 17:15:00 - [20] Edited by: Ione Hunt on 03/12/2007 17:20:19 Edited by: Ione Hunt on 03/12/2007 17:19:48 All of those ships are "luxury toys" for high-SP pilots with a lot of ISK. 1) Vindicator: MWD/Agility bonus, damage bonus not reliant on BS lvl5, more cap 2) Navy Thron: 1 more lowslot, more HP 3) Kronos: less cap usage, holy batman ECM vulernability The Kronos will suck in PVP because anyone with a multispec or 1 light ECM drone will totally disable the ship. It'll be good for PVE, but I don't see anyone using this for PVP if it's very likely that he's going to be jammed the whole fight. Sure, you could fit backups, but that'll gimp your setup to the point where it's just not useful to fly. The Vindi has enough cap to allow for a repper or even dual repper setup. It does a lot of damage and gets the huge damage bonus even if people don't have BS lvl5! Navy Thron...plate and gank. In the end, the navy thron offers the best bang for the buck if setup for a plate tank 'n gank. Plenty of damage, good buffer tank that doesn't need cap and that rocks even more if you are in a remote rep gang, and it's BLACK!! Only downside is that you need very good gunnery skills and BS lvl5 to pull it off. But it's also one of the cheapest faction BS to set up...1.1-1.2bil max and you're good to go Vindicators are much more expensive to set up, and I have a feeling the Kronos will get close... _______________
slothe Caldari 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.12.03 20:57:00 - [21] we will have to see what the final stats are. but as said above the marauders weakness is sensor strength.
Gladiator Jonny Omniscient Order	Posted - 2007.12.04 00:16:00 - [22] Originally by: slothe we will have to see what the final stats are. but as said above the marauders weakness is sensor strength. Thats what im thinking. But in a realistic scenario, ecm ships are rarely encountered. and eccm is easy enough to fit. Think ill just wait a week or two after the patch, watch the prices change and see what way to go
Ione Hunt 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.12.04 00:25:00 - [23] Originally by: Gladiator Jonny Originally by: slothe we will have to see what the final stats are. but as said above the marauders weakness is sensor strength. Thats what im thinking. But in a realistic scenario, ecm ships are rarely encountered. and eccm is easy enough to fit. Think ill just wait a week or two after the patch, watch the prices change and see what way to go Please tell me where you PVP...I wanna come over _______________
Kristoffer Amarr Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.12.04 01:30:00 - [24] In any situation where a Kronos with an ECCM is going to be jammed a Vindicator or Navy Mega is going to be jammed just the same. The Kronos can fit 38 cap booster 800s and around +1200 rounds of ammunition, which means it will outlast either a vindicator or a megathron. You -will- hit what you web, even with void. Its definately a fun ship for stationhumping if they pull out ewar though.
Dors Venabily	Posted - 2007.12.04 05:29:00 - [25] Excuse me just making a note her 1 use of eccm in kronos will be mandatory 2 with all those high slots i am sure 2 smart bombs will get rid of the pesky but very low hp ecm drones. and another dmg dealing drones for that matter just my 2 cents still want the navy mega as well
Gladiator Jonny Omniscient Order	Posted - 2007.12.04 11:04:00 - [26] Originally by: Ione Hunt Originally by: Gladiator Jonny Originally by: slothe we will have to see what the final stats are. but as said above the marauders weakness is sensor strength. Thats what im thinking. But in a realistic scenario, ecm ships are rarely encountered. and eccm is easy enough to fit. Think ill just wait a week or two after the patch, watch the prices change and see what way to go Please tell me where you PVP...I wanna come over I pvp all over mate Generally all i find is bad setups/gank fits or damps. ecm is annoying tho, if you find a gang with nice teamwork and heavy ew your gonna have one hell of a battle on your hands either way.
Shiken Kan	Posted - 2007.12.04 11:09:00 - [27] don't forget that damps are getting the shaft with trinity, so most ew you'll encounter will be ecm and drones already are quite common (though it's true you got slots for smarties on marauders).
Djerin Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.12.04 14:20:00 - [28] Originally by: Dors Venabily with all those high slots i am sure 2 smart bombs will get rid of the pesky but very low hp ecm drones. and another dmg dealing drones for that matter Afaik medium ECM drones orbit beyond large T2 smartbomb range. With some drones skills even small one's should do so. So you would have to fit like very expensive smartbombs to kill them. I think you would do better, if you tried to use small drones to have em killed (i doubt anyone would want to waste their spare hislots for f.o.f.-firing launchers). Just saying... ---- Sarmaul's crosstrainorgtfo
Horza Otho Minmatar Infortunatus Eventus HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2007.12.04 14:53:00 - [29] In my opinion the Vindicator and Megathron Navy Issue both fill different roles completely. The Vindi is made for active tanking. With the cap bonus it has the cap to make it work. The extra med slot makes it nice too for more versatility in that you can fit a ECCM or a sensor booster. However, with the price of dead space armor repairers and EANMs Vindis are very hard to fit with a properly pimped out setup. On the other hand, the Megathron Navy Issue is made solely for a plated neutron setup. It has the extra low slot and the increased hp to help it be the best at ganking. It is also very, very cheep to fit. I've just got one for myself and i've only spent maybe 2billish max. It pretty much comes down to your play style, and your budget. Let drones use overheat too!
Ozzie Asrail Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.12.04 16:04:00 - [30] Originally by: Gladiator Jonny I want a vindicator. Several reasons for this however, with the incoming bonus change and kronos is their actually a point other than looking like teh pimp. Have I missed something to do with the bonus? Just resubbed so can't get on sisi quite yet to test :( I fly a vindi and personally the deciding factor was the agility, it aligns almost as fast as a BC so ideal for roaming around. Dual faction reps and the cap amount mean it can easily tank sentries and a small gang for long enough to either kill them, get reinforcments or deagro and jump. Depending on how the Kronos looks on the agility side of things (base 10ms faster) it may beat it, especially if it can hold way more cap charges and have the nice hyperion rep bonus on top. The 4 mids and almost manditory eccm means dropping your scram to fit mwd, web, booster, eccm but really how many people go toally solo without an alt scout account or anything anyway? -----

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