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DMF KingBob
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Posted - 2007.12.02 21:23:00 -
[1]
Edited by: DMF KingBob on 02/12/2007 21:24:13 torps are maybe inbalanced at sisi yes ther brings too much damage for her required skills and shield thank can be still better then armor just think about Crystal implants and boost amps with 30% increas and hardener for all resistances with 30% and a slight haderner for low slot known as damage control
but im sure the community of CALDARIE-Online will like it
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swordslasher
Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.12.02 22:03:00 -
[2]
Cry me a river and go drown in it. This is balanced because it was a nerf AND a boost to different stats; very short range (remember when torps could fly 250km+?) combined with higher damage output makes it a short range PVP weapon, much like T2 blasters on a megathron.
The Caldari had no short range high output boat before, now they do just like everyone else.
Shield tanking is better because it's not sustainable. Armor tanking can be sustained, shield tanking is very cap intensive.
Trust me, until you play the race you know nothing about it's balance, just because you're dying to a ship that is employing new tactics doesn't mean it's unbalanced, it means you need to learn how to adapt and play the game instead of crying on some forums.
Sorry for being so vocal but this isn't KingBob Online either.
Originally by: LeMoose RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
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DMF KingBob
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Posted - 2007.12.02 22:46:00 -
[3]
Edited by: DMF KingBob on 02/12/2007 22:47:41 Edited by: DMF KingBob on 02/12/2007 22:47:24 you are a typical Caldarie-Online Player but im still thinking this change inst so good it will make caldarie better for dmg deal caldarie as the perfekt race for PvE,PvP like E-War,over 200km sniping and now for dmg dealing what want we more ? i just fearing that we will see more ravens then before(i on my self flying one for PvE)but just skilling Torpedoes lvl5 to bring the same dmg like large t2 blaster is already inbalanced it takes allready more time to skill large turrets t2 as skilling missile spam
no race should be good for all look at the amarr the are mostly not good
but the next step to make caldarie better for pvp should be to reduce the cpu usage of Shield Transfers (usable)and not to make easy skilled weapons stronger
and wtf this is not King Bob-Online ? hm oh your right i selected the wrong forum but this does not solve the facts!
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Jurgen Cartis
Caldari Interstellar Corporation of Exploration
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Posted - 2007.12.02 23:37:00 -
[4]
Originally by: DMF KingBob Edited by: DMF KingBob on 02/12/2007 22:47:41 Edited by: DMF KingBob on 02/12/2007 22:47:24 you are a typical Caldarie-Online Player but im still thinking this change inst so good it will make caldarie better for dmg deal caldarie as the perfekt race for PvE,PvP like E-War,over 200km sniping and now for dmg dealing what want we more ? i just fearing that we will see more ravens then before(i on my self flying one for PvE)but just skilling Torpedoes lvl5 to bring the same dmg like large t2 blaster is already inbalanced it takes allready more time to skill large turrets t2 as skilling missile spam
no race should be good for all look at the amarr the are mostly not good
but the next step to make caldarie better for pvp should be to reduce the cpu usage of Shield Transfers (usable)and not to make easy skilled weapons stronger
and wtf this is not King Bob-Online ? hm oh your right i selected the wrong forum but this does not solve the facts!
Actually, reducing the CPU use for shield transfers would be a wonderful thing, they're impossible to fit on most ships. Torpedoes have problems just like blasters do, different problems mind but THEY ARE NOT THE PERFECT WEAPON SYSTEM YOU MAKE THEM OUT TO BE. Enough damn torpedo/ecm whine threads already!
The torpedo Raven is dead for PVE, and has been reborn as a devastating anti-battleship gang PvP boat. It will suck solo (just try to fit a shield tank with MWD/web/scram/painter/injector), but shine in gangs now. It will suck against support due to torpedoes huge explosion radius and horrible explosion velocity, but will destroy battleships.
The 'pick damage type' argument is overrated, since it takes 10-20 seconds to reload a new type midfight, so you really only get your initial pick. Admittedly an explosive/thermal mix is extremely nasty for most work.
They are capless. So are Autocannons. Autocannons can pick damage types too. We know Lasers have cap problems, that is another thread.
They have a delay before damage hits of up to 9 seconds. This means that the gunships may an second volley off before the Raven's first volley even hits.
Yes, the new Raven has OMGWTFINSANE paper DPS. But it is not a win-button as so many people make it out as. It has fitting problems like any other ship, and torps don't get that DPS on anything but large, stationary targets.
Torps are not 1000 DPS at 30km with a few hundred thousand SP. You need the specialization skill, and the support skills to really get the most from them, just like any other weapon. If you walk onto a battlefield with Torpedoes IV and Caldari BS II, you will have be outranged by a Megathron with Null L (10.8km Torpedo range vs. 9000 optimal + 12500 falloff).
As for the "Torpedoes only need 1 skill to V but large turrets need 3" argument, look at getting Torpedoes AND Cruise (like, say, Large Blasters and Large Rails) or Torpedoes AND HAMs AND Rockets (like, say, Small/Medium/Large Blasters). You'll find the skill times much more comparable.
I think torps may have gotten a bit much DPS, a 20% rather than 25% improvement in RoF may have been more balanced. But I'd like to see how it plays out on TQ first. When I see Raven gank gangs, I'll get worried. For now, deal. You fly Amarr, that should not be a new thing for you.
/Rant over. . . wait a second.
There is no e in Caldari.
Rant over. -------------------- ICE Blueprint Sales FIRST!! -Yipsilanti Pfft. Never such a thing as a "last chance". ;) -Rauth |
Aftershock2100
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Posted - 2007.12.02 23:48:00 -
[5]
Quote: Shield tanking is better because it's not sustainable. Armor tanking can be sustained, shield tanking is very cap intensive.
Please elaborate on your meaning here. I mainly armor tank, and I can assure you it is heavily cap intensive. If it were not, why am I needing to fit all this cap recharge stuff and/or cap injectors on all my fits? Also on the subject, where is my passive armor tank? So far everyone I have spoken to seem to consider shield tanking as less cap intensive compared to armor, as it would need to be due to most cap modules being on the mid slots. Every shield tank I have thus far used has needed far less cap than my armor, but again I must say I am primarily a armor tank, but i do fly a multitude of ships from the differant races.
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jade ronin
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Posted - 2007.12.03 00:16:00 -
[6]
the thing thats rough about making a strong sheild tank is that you have to give up any em (warp jammers) so if you find that the torps are doing to much damage and you cant break the tank .... fly away.
i think its a good change gives the caldari a good heavy hitting weapon. they lacked any kind of major dps in the bs fleet. now the raven can be used in pvp again.
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wapacz
Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.12.03 01:20:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Aftershock2100
Quote: Shield tanking is better because it's not sustainable. Armor tanking can be sustained, shield tanking is very cap intensive.
Please elaborate on your meaning here. I mainly armor tank, and I can assure you it is heavily cap intensive. If it were not, why am I needing to fit all this cap recharge stuff and/or cap injectors on all my fits? Also on the subject, where is my passive armor tank? So far everyone I have spoken to seem to consider shield tanking as less cap intensive compared to armor, as it would need to be due to most cap modules being on the mid slots. Every shield tank I have thus far used has needed far less cap than my armor, but again I must say I am primarily a armor tank, but i do fly a multitude of ships from the differant races.
A larger armor takes 400 cap every 15 seconds and give you 600 armor. That works out to 26.666 cap a second with 1.5 armor for ever unit of cap used.
A large shield booster takes 160 cap ever 4 seconds and gives 160 shields. That works out to 40 cap a second and 1 shield for every unit of cap. To match efficiency of an armor repper you would need 2 boost amps.
now lets take a raven who was 6 mid slots. So you need 3 for the mods to make it use the same cap as a armor tanker. You have to plug that pesky em hole. this leaves you with 2 slots. With the exp radius of torps one of them needs to be a target painter and now you have one left, but your torps are so short range that you need at least an ab. It should be noted that most ravens have a pds or two in the lows just becuase they give you 5 lows and well after 2 bcus its not really worth adding more. Also at best a raven will probably only have one boost amp on it if it even has one and in the other spot an invuln field.
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Grainsalt
Free Corp Liberty Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.03 12:39:00 -
[8]
Actually kinda looking forward to this change as it gives us Caldari people some chance of getting involved in PVP... And that's a good thing, because I suck at it ... ---
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=554257
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Buyerr
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Posted - 2007.12.03 13:34:00 -
[9]
Originally by: DMF KingBob Edited by: DMF KingBob on 02/12/2007 21:24:13 torps are maybe inbalanced at sisi yes ther brings too much damage for her required skills and shield thank can be still better then armor just think about Crystal implants and boost amps with 30% increas and hardener for all resistances with 30% and a slight haderner for low slot known as damage control
but im sure the community of CALDARIE-Online will like it
you don't use shield tanks or if so you clearly don't do pvp, and for torp change... ehh you clearly have no idea about the stats of HAM and ROCKETS which torps are not even nearly in line to be the big brother of (as with small, med, larg turrets...
remove the isk farmers and carebears and look at the pvp community and it would be called gallente online.
but one of the races are bound to have more players, but in a game like this where your skills are not locked by your race the race means nothing compared to the ship type used.
now come with some valid numbers and argument or STFU
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Samurai XII
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Posted - 2007.12.03 14:41:00 -
[10]
DMF KingBob, you sir are an idiot. ______________________ Just another cool alt. |
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MellaRinn
Gallente Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2007.12.03 15:41:00 -
[11]
At first I was like: WTF this raven is not that bad, actually maybe he will kill my mega before me... but then I LOL'd at his lack of any tackling gear, making him either: 1. run out of range (as I can freely maneuver about him and his torps are lol-short range or 2. warp out kthxbai :)
✖Veto Corp. Training Officer✖ Click the sig 4 my vids |
Grey Area
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.12.03 15:42:00 -
[12]
Regarding the skill training times issue.
Yes. It is shorter to train for T2 Torps/Cruise than it is to train for T2 Short/Long turrets.
Why?
Because you only get ONE launcher to use! For the turrets you get two or three different choices with varied fitting costs, tracking and damage output.
If I can't fit a full rack of T2 turrets, I can substitute a lesser turret to make it work.
If I can't fit a full rack of T2 Torps...well, then it's time to give up, because there are NO OTHER OPTIONS.
If I want to fight smaller targets then I can fit the better tracking weapons from the class...but I can't reduce the Torps explosion radius in this way.
You train longer for turrets, but you get more choice. ---
I don't mind you disagreeing with me. Just don't say I don't have the SKILLS to comment. |
Ulstan
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Posted - 2007.12.03 16:14:00 -
[13]
Quote: but im still thinking this change inst so good it will make caldarie better for dmg deal caldarie as the perfekt race for PvE
You realize that this torpedo change was pretty much an explicit nerf to caldari pve torp raven mission runners?
It also had the happy effect of making the raven potentially useful in PvP as well.
I think it's a great change.
The scorpion got a slight boost as well, so with this patch, you might start seeing it somewhere other than gathering dust in a hangar!
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