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Extremest
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Posted - 2007.12.04 07:52:00 -
[1]
Let's compare gallente amarr minmatar guns:
t2 large close range and highest dps guns with shortest range(or if you ike hghest dmg) t2/t1 ammos are used for comparations
all t2 ammos does 56 dmg per shot in totle for what ever dmg.
Amarr: dmg modifier:3.6x, t2 ammo dmg type 28 em+28 ther, t1 ammo dmg type 28 em+20 ther
Gallente: dmg midifier:4.2x, t2 ammo dmg type 28 kin+28 ther, t1 ammo dmg type 28 kin+20 ther
Minmatar: dmg modifier:3.234, t2 ammo dmg type 44 exp+12 kin, t1 ammo dmg type all dmg types
There are only 2 types of t2 ammo for each type of gun: one longer range/less dmg one shorter range/high dmg; the dmg type is fixed. So i spot Minmatar is being treated a bit unfairly. they got the lowest dmg modifier. "amarr and gallente uses cap to fire each shot!!" but minmatar got a capacitor charge rate "bonus" of -5%, which one penalized more? Amarr and Gellente got higher dmg modifier but with limited dmg types compared with minmatar lower dmg modifier but can choose whatever dmg suits if t1 ammo is used. but the case is different with t2 ammos, Amarr and Gallent can still only deal same dmg types as their t1 conterparts but a bit more dmg number wise. whereas minmatar got the same bit of dmg increase number wise but with limited dmg type can deal. (exp+kin)
The arguement appears that despite with low dmg modifier minmatar got nothing else to make-up for to be leveled with both amarr and gallente pilots when t2 ammos are used.
I am not here saying make minmatar stronger/make amarr and gallente weaker. After a bit tweak with the figures and few game experiences, I am here to ask if i have miss anything that would make-up for the "minmatar t2 weakness"
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Keta Min
Pre-nerfed Tactics
SOUL CARTEL
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Posted - 2007.12.04 08:24:00 -
[2]
grats on not taking fitting reqs, cap use and dmg type variability into account.
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Sheriff Jones
Amarr
Please Enter Password
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Posted - 2007.12.04 08:30:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Keta Min
grats on not taking fitting reqs, cap use and dmg type variability into account.
Or the average armor resistances, speed of ships or really any other aspect except "gun vs gun".
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
Extremest
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Posted - 2007.12.04 08:32:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Keta Min
grats on not taking fitting reqs, cap use and dmg type variability into account.
 i did (in bold), although my paragraphs are a bit messy.
about fitting reqs, all battleships can fit it's maximum number of turrets with large t2s right?
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Aion Amarra
Minmatar
Ascent of Ages
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.12.04 08:33:00 -
[5]
Or RoF, for that matter?
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Extremest
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Posted - 2007.12.04 08:39:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Extremest on 04/12/2007 08:41:19
Originally by: Aion Amarra
Or RoF, for that matter?
they are all the same.
7875 for all of them if i remember right
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Extremest
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Posted - 2007.12.04 19:24:00 -
[7]
no replies, does this mean everybody agrees?
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Tarminic
Forsaken Resistance
The Last Stand
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Posted - 2007.12.04 19:29:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Extremest
"Amarr and gallente uses cap to fire each shot!!" but minmatar got a capacitor charge rate bonus of -5%, which one penalizes more?
Railguns, Blasters, and Lasers use far more cap per second than 5% of their respective ships' capacitor recharge rates.
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Tarminic - 29 Million SP in pink Forum Warfare |
Wu Jiun
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Posted - 2007.12.04 19:30:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Extremest
no replies, does this mean everybody agrees?
It means you are so stupid and the OP so full of mistakes that no one could be bothered to take the time to actually argue with you.
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Sky Grunthor
Minmatar
Core Element
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Posted - 2007.12.04 19:31:00 -
[10]
I think it really means that regardless of the accuracy or lack there of in your post. There really isn't much flameable material here. So I will post the first flame for you.
your a blankety blank blank blank idiot who should go back to WOW.
Can I have your stuff?
hope you enjoyed the obligatory flame :D.
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now that the obligatory flame is over I must state I have no idea what any of those numbers are and what they mean. So I'll just go put on my t2 guns on my t2 frigate and shoot some people.
Search: Sky Grunthor |
Extremest
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Posted - 2007.12.04 19:35:00 -
[11]
My english it's not that good, here i edited it again on Word, and simplified it a bit. hope it makes some sense 
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Si Delane
Sector 7
Visions of Warfare
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Posted - 2007.12.04 19:37:00 -
[12]
Too mathy to be actual trolling.
Not mathy enough to be actual supported argument.
The flameproof no-man's land between good and bad posts? Maybe.
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Actually this IS my main. |
Neal Cassady
Mutually Assured Distraction
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Posted - 2007.12.04 19:47:00 -
[13]
these types of rational (although incomplete) arguments do not belong on eve-o! go to shc with your maths and leave eve o for the trolls and flamers!
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Taedrin
Gallente
Magellan Exploration and Survey
Rare Faction
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Posted - 2007.12.04 19:53:00 -
[14]
We're looking at short range weapons only, right?
Blasters vs. Pulses vs. Autocannons.
Autocannons definately lack any punch compared to the other weapons, but I believe they have the highest tracking out of all short range weapons. On top of this, they are the only short range weapon in the game that can deal 3 damage types simultaneously, making them hard to tank against (at least with T1 ammo).
Pulses have the worst tracking, but the longest range. They have a DPS between ACs and Blasters, but also the highest cap use (I think). They almost ALWAYS deal more EM than Thermal (Multifrequency crystals are the only exception, I think with equal Em and Thermal components), so they are very easy to tank against. On top of this, both EM and Thermal are more common damage types than explosive - ignoring missiles, projectile are the *ONLY* weapon which can deal explosive damage.
EM damage is dealt by both lasers and Projectiles, Thermal is dealt by Lasers, Hybrids and projectiles (although to a lesser extent on all 3 of these). Kinetic is dealt by Projectiles and Hybrids (and Caldari ships sometimes have a bonus to Kinetic damage on missiles).
Blasters, IMO, are the ultimate short range weapon. They have decent tracking, moderate cap use and insane damage. I'm not certain how the range/fall-off works with them, but that is hardly a point when you fit a web.
Autocannons, at least, are an excellent choice for taking down faster ships, and for being able to vary your damage type to the situation at hand.
Pulses in the end get the short end of the stick. Moderate DPS, high range, high cap use, and poor tracking.
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Cadiz
Caldari
No Quarter.
Vae Victis.
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Posted - 2007.12.04 19:54:00 -
[15]
Wait, people actually use t2 close-range ammo these days? I thought everybody just loaded up on faction ammo and flipped the bird at all the ridiculous penalties on the t2 stuff.
------
Director, No Quarter
"There is no problem that cannot be solved by the judicious application of violence." |
Dirk Magnum
FinFleet
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.12.04 19:58:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Cadiz
Wait, people actually use t2 close-range ammo these days? I thought everybody just loaded up on faction ammo and flipped the bird at all the ridiculous penalties on the t2 stuff.
Barrage ammo has an uber falloff bonus that makes it worth using, especially if you're in a ceptor or Vagabond, and are always alternating between close and long range to your opponents as opposed to just orbiting.
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Cadiz
Caldari
No Quarter.
Vae Victis.
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Posted - 2007.12.04 20:00:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Cadiz on 04/12/2007 19:59:49
Originally by: Dirk Magnum
Originally by: Cadiz
Wait, people actually use t2 close-range ammo these days? I thought everybody just loaded up on faction ammo and flipped the bird at all the ridiculous penalties on the t2 stuff.
Barrage ammo has an uber falloff bonus that makes it worth using, especially if you're in a ceptor or Vagabond, and are always alternating between close and long range to your opponents as opposed to just orbiting.
Barrage is long-range ammo, and all of the long-range ammo is immensely useful. Close-range is stuff like Javelin, Hail, Void, etc.
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Director, No Quarter
"There is no problem that cannot be solved by the judicious application of violence." |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
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Posted - 2007.12.04 20:03:00 -
[18]
needs more numbers
that and i will listen when people complain of minmatar fitting lasers to their boats
*cough like how some amarr/gallete ships are fit up with projectiles cough*
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Dirk Magnum
FinFleet
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.12.04 20:12:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Cadiz
Barrage is long-range ammo, and all of the long-range ammo is immensely useful. Close-range is stuff like Javelin, Hail, Void, etc.
Barrage is for ACs, not artillery, and should be considered in any discussion of short range fitting.
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Extremest
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Posted - 2007.12.04 20:25:00 -
[20]
Just state my point, no much hatred in your replies.
I wanted to train minmatar in the future, i recently just lost the reason why i would train for minmatar, i.e. what's minmatar's advantage when large guns are used.
Tracking-i don't think it matters with bs vs bs situation.
I just figured it out:
800 AC tempest with Hail vs nuetronblaster mega with Void, (assume it's a good corp-mates 1v1)
will the tempest get bbqed or it can get the mega to near-death state when it gotten blown-up by the mega?
Assume standard fitting+same related skill for both of them and start at 500m to each-other.
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Cadiz
Caldari
No Quarter.
Vae Victis.
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Posted - 2007.12.04 20:34:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Cadiz on 04/12/2007 20:35:16
Originally by: Dirk Magnum
Originally by: Cadiz
Barrage is long-range ammo, and all of the long-range ammo is immensely useful. Close-range is stuff like Javelin, Hail, Void, etc.
Barrage is for ACs, not artillery, and should be considered in any discussion of short range fitting.
All t2 ammo is divided into "short-rage" and "long-range" varieties.
Hail = short-range.
Barrage = long-range.
Quake = short-range.
Tremor = long-range.
Whether you're talking about railguns or pulse lasers, there is a short-range t2 ammo, and a long-range t2 ammo. And the short-range t2 stuff almost universally sucks. Hence why most people I know just use faction ammo instead - most of the damage output with none of the godawful drawbacks.
------
Director, No Quarter
"There is no problem that cannot be solved by the judicious application of violence." |
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