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new t2 cruiser idea... exploration/science vessel

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Nybbas Sons of Enelaise Enelaise	Posted - 2007.12.05 01:29:00 - [1] I was just looking at my vexor and thinking how cool it and my ishtar are going to look in the patch, when i remembered that there still isnt a second t2 form of the vexor for me to drool over. I remember back in the day, the vexors described as more of a science/exploration vessel (its description now even talks about how its useful for "surveying potentially hostile sectors") Does anyone else agree that a t2 cruiser type that is somehow geared towards exploration in some way, would be a very cool addition? giving it a bonus to scanning speed, as well as some archeology/hacking bonus... or even scanning accuracy and pinpointing bonuses... anyone else have any ideas or agree? maybe have some suggestion that would be good for it?
Mudkest Ekliptika Engineers Ekliptika	Posted - 2007.12.05 02:03:00 - [2] would be a nice though, same scanspeed bonus as cof ops frigates, but actualy being able to actualy run the (easier?) hacking/arch sites in it(wich the cov ops friggie cant) preferebly covops cloak *****ble on it. but then again, if it's a better cov ops frigate then what's the reason to fly those ships :/ ----- GIEV custom ship paint jobs! I want my hello-kitty-kessie! For your safety do not destroy vital testing apparatus
Nybbas Sons of Enelaise Enelaise	Posted - 2007.12.05 23:52:00 - [3] yeah exactly, thats why we need to think of other ideas to seperate it : P maybe give the scanning bonuses or whatever, make them specific to exploration, and give it a 25% boost to accuracy and sensor strength : D... (i want to see some tech 2 scanner probes!)
NCP S2	Posted - 2007.12.06 00:27:00 - [4] It would turn Cov Ops into the same area as an AF, a temporary stop on the route to the T2 Cruiser :p I don't really want to train Cruiser 5 anytime soon myself, so there'd still be a good market for the cov ops frigs, but yeah, I think it would be a pretty good idea, granted I don't do exploration myself... Maybe make it so it can't fit the recon launcher? That would keep the cov ops frigs great for player scanning, and make exploration the area for the cov ops cruiser. Might be a good topic to take to the ideas section though.
Last Wolf Templars of Space	Posted - 2007.12.06 00:33:00 - [5] hell no, No more tech II ships that use medium mods. They are expensive enough as it is. between tech 1 cruisers/BC and thier tech II equivelents, there is something in the ball park of 60 ships that need medium weapons and armor/shield reppers.
Morlana Syketh	Posted - 2007.12.06 01:00:00 - [6] I think this is a good idea. For example it could result in a lot more small archeological sites in EVE that can be explored, have artifacts taken from them, and generally create some more unique points of interest in eve. I would like to see exploration have more places to go in eve. The difference between this and the cov ops could be that this is not at all suited to finding ships, POSs, etc, therefore reducing it's role in combat, while allowing it still to operate cloaked (cov ops cloak) and scan for archeological objects.
LUH 3471	Posted - 2007.12.06 01:10:00 - [7] Edited by: LUH 3471 on 06/12/2007 01:10:49 how about having a tech 2 version of the tier 2 battlecruisers for exploration as far as i know we dont have any tech 2 version of those yet id very much like to see this
Apollyonn Caldari Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.12.06 03:59:00 - [8] Try the features and ideas forum. Maybe the devs will pay more attention there. I love the idea tho!
Nybbas Sons of Enelaise Enelaise	Posted - 2007.12.06 03:59:00 - [9] maybe even make the tech 2 "exploration" ship like the marauders in the sense it can deal decent amounts of damage and tank, but has a huge weakness (like the sensor strength) or whatever so that it would be possible to do some of the scouted out locations... or like you said, make a T2 exploration battleship... that would be cool too (and another way to implement tech 2 bs's that are more than extra heavy assault ships)
Guillame Herschel Gallente Cheers Restaurant and Bar Coalition Of Empires	Posted - 2007.12.06 04:15:00 - [10] Edited by: Guillame Herschel on 06/12/2007 04:26:43 Edited by: Guillame Herschel on 06/12/2007 04:25:23 Originally by: Nybbas anyone else have any ideas or agree? maybe have some suggestion that would be good for it? A T1 BS with three Gravity Capacitor Upgrades has equivalent scan performance to a Covert Ops ship with a level 3 pilot. Covert Ops Skill Bonus: -98% to -100% reduction in Cloaking Device CPU use per level and 10% reduction to duration/activation time of modules requiring Astrometrics per level Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I This ship modification is designed to reduce a ship's scan probe scan time. Duration Bonus -10 A BS pilot can train all the same skills and use all the same implants as a dedicated Covert Ops pilot. And a T1 ship has one more rig slot than a T2 ship, so in the end, all that separates a T1 Battleship from a Covert Ops in terms of scan peformance is training level 2-5 Covert Ops skill, or four 10% bonuses stacked. And it's pretty easy for a well-skilled BS pilot to outperform an average Covert Ops pilot. -- Guile can always trump hardware --

Nybbas Sons of Enelaise Enelaise	Posted - 2007.12.06 04:32:00 - [11] Originally by: Guillame Herschel Edited by: Guillame Herschel on 06/12/2007 04:27:42 Originally by: Nybbas anyone else have any ideas or agree? maybe have some suggestion that would be good for it? A T1 BS with three Gravity Capacitor Upgrades has equivalent scan performance to a Covert Ops ship with a level 3 pilot. Covert Ops Skill Bonus: -98% to -100% reduction in Cloaking Device CPU use per level and 10% reduction to duration/activation time of modules requiring Astrometrics per level Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I This ship modification is designed to reduce a ship's scan probe scan time. Duration Bonus -10 A BS pilot can train all the same skills and use all the same implants as a dedicated Covert Ops pilot. And a T1 ship has one more rig slot than a T2 ship, so in the end, all that separates a T1 Battleship from a Covert Ops in terms of scan peformance is training level 2-5 Covert Ops skill, or four 10% bonuses stacked. And it's pretty easy for a well-skilled BS pilot to outperform an average Covert Ops pilot. So I don't think a new ship is needed. If anything, Covert Ops ships should get buffed a little. have you ever done exploration?
MalVortex	Posted - 2007.12.06 05:06:00 - [12] A T2 exploration cruiser based on the logistic hulls would be pretty cool. And sense I'm busy waiting for premium trinity to hurry up and download... behold the fruits of boredom!: These ships will have the most advanced scan probes in terms of the accuracy of their results. However, they are unable to mount recon launchers (principally being combat science and mapping vessels), so covert ops and force recons will still have a significant advantage in finding target ships quickly. Their warp core bonus is to allow them to escape combat a little easier. Even with the tanking bonus, they will never be combat ships. Heavy Cartographer Ships: Specifically designed to chart and explore the depths of lawless space, Heavy Cartographers utilize a combination of highly advanced scanning equipment and quantum sub-processing to dramatically improve deep space scanning results. To ensure the safety of their delicate equipment, they incorporate at the design level some of the strongest cruiser defense systems made, while sporting a heavily tweaked warp core drive system. ---- Caldari Hummingbird 5/6/3, 4 turrets, 2 missile hardpoints, 25m^3 drone bay 25mpbs bandwidth Cruiser Bonus: 5% shield resist/level, 10% hybrid optimal range per level. Cartographer bonus: 5% increased scan strength and 5% decreased maximum scan deviation distance on all probes per level. Role bonus: 50% reduction moon analysis duration. Role bonus: 25% increased archeology and hacking module effectiveness. Role Bonus: +1 Warp Core Strength. ---- Galente Sprite 4/5/5, 4 turrets, 65m^3 dronebay, 65mpbs bandwidth. Cruiser Bonus: 7.5% armor repair per level, 5% hybrid damage per level. Cartographer bonus: 5% increased scan strength and 5% decreased maximum scan deviation distance on all probes per level. Role bonus: 50% reduction moon analysis duration. Role bonus: 25% increased archeology and hacking module effectiveness. Role Bonus: +1 Warp Core Strength. ---- Minmatar Gale 5/5/4, 4 turrets, 3 missiles, 35m^3 dronebay, 35mpbs bandwidth. Cruiser Bonus: 7.5% shield boost per level, 5% projectile damage per level. Cartographer bonus: 5% increased scan strength and 5% decreased maximum scan deviation distance on all probes per level. Role bonus: 50% reduction moon analysis duration. Role bonus: 25% increased archeology and hacking module effectiveness. Role Bonus: +1 Warp Core Strength. ---- Amarr Oathbinder 5/3/6, 5 turrets, 120m^3 dronebay, 40mpbs bandwidth. Cruiser Bonus: 5% armor resist per level, 10% laser capacitor reduction per level. Cartographer bonus: 5% increased scan strength and 5% decreased maximum scan deviation distance on all probes per level. Role bonus: 50% reduction moon analysis duration. Role bonus: 25% increased archeology and hacking module effectiveness. Role Bonus: +1 Warp Core Strength.
Nybbas Sons of Enelaise Enelaise	Posted - 2007.12.06 05:18:00 - [13] Edited by: Nybbas on 06/12/2007 05:20:08 MAL AND EVERYONE MAKE SURE YOU READ THE FREAKING GENERAL DISCUSSION FORUM ABOUT THE PROBLEM WITH THE PATCH. it has been deleting people with xp's boot.ini files. there is a way to fix this, and a way to prevent it (dont install premium content patch yet) WHATEVER you do DONT reboot your computer unless you have your windows disk!! CHECK THE STICKIED TOPIC IN GENERAL DISCUSSION also, your ships need a scan speed bonus : P
Nybbas Sons of Enelaise Enelaise	Posted - 2007.12.06 18:55:00 - [14] hmmm
Dheorl Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.12.06 19:40:00 - [15] What about just a reduction in CPU use for probe launchers and maybe a smaller boost to time/strenght so it can have a combat fit and do the sites but not find them as fast as the frigs.
Nybbas Sons of Enelaise Enelaise	Posted - 2007.12.07 06:56:00 - [16] the only point really is to have them be able to be more efficient at scanning : /
Acoco Osiris Gallente Sublime.	Posted - 2007.12.07 14:41:00 - [17] How about we don't suggest redundant ships whose role has already been filled by something else?
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.12.07 15:55:00 - [18] Originally by: Acoco Osiris How about we don't suggest redundant ships whose role has already been filled by something else? Well if the gallente recons dampbonus was changed into a exploration bonus it might be usefull again ^^ _________________________________________________ Breetime A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Malena Panic Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.12.07 16:27:00 - [19] Panic endorses this concept and promises to use it only for peaceful scientific purposes. ...
Sanysa Caldari	Posted - 2007.12.07 16:31:00 - [20] "Explorer Reporting!" "Ah, greetings command!" "Transmit orders." "Eck, who set all these lab monkeys free?"

Nybbas Sons of Enelaise Enelaise	Posted - 2007.12.07 19:31:00 - [21] Originally by: Acoco Osiris How about we don't suggest redundant ships whose role has already been filled by something else? how about you provide an argument against this, instead of trolling around like a nub? there are assault frigs... so by your logic there shouldnt be heavy assault cruisers... there are interdictors, therefore we dont need heavy interdictors... not to mention a helios isnt really specialized for exploration... it was invented for the use of scanning out ships, not entirely for the purpose of exploration. Is there a ship out there that gives exploration bonuses? no there isn't, stop trolling.
Poba Firing Squad Pure.	Posted - 2007.12.07 19:41:00 - [22] I think this could be a good idea and we may want to start pushing CCP and asking for it. mission runners recieved new ships to run missions, I dont think it would be too far out of line to see a exploration ship put in, i personaly love the idea of making the tier 2 BCs into the exploration ships, just put in negative modifiers that discourage people from using them in PVP so its a more exploration probing/running focused ship. however i think we should first all wait and see how the mauraders actually fair when dedicated PVPers try to fit them to fight. [url=http://a4d.corpsewatch.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=3607] [/url] ~Welcome to the internet, where the men are men, the women are men
Garrick Konquero Gallente ImmCo	Posted - 2007.12.07 19:49:00 - [23] Edited by: Garrick Konquero on 07/12/2007 19:49:52 I would certainly love a cruiser or battle cruiser class exploration vessel that could handle the rats found in hacking and archeology sites (at least in low-sec). Swapping out ships after chasing down a signal is something of a pain. Granted, this is a multi-player game and one should have a friend or two to help, but given the unpredictable nature of exploration, this is not always possible. Barring that, just a dedicated exploration/science ship of any type would be welcome. There is hope: There are rumors of a mini-profession ship in the works.
Neon Genesis The Landed Gentry	Posted - 2007.12.07 20:44:00 - [24] Originally by: Guillame Herschel Edited by: Guillame Herschel on 06/12/2007 04:27:42 Originally by: Nybbas anyone else have any ideas or agree? maybe have some suggestion that would be good for it? A T1 BS with three Gravity Capacitor Upgrades has equivalent scan performance to a Covert Ops ship with a level 3 pilot. Covert Ops Skill Bonus: -98% to -100% reduction in Cloaking Device CPU use per level and 10% reduction to duration/activation time of modules requiring Astrometrics per level Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I This ship modification is designed to reduce a ship's scan probe scan time. Duration Bonus -10 A BS pilot can train all the same skills and use all the same implants as a dedicated Covert Ops pilot. And a T1 ship has one more rig slot than a T2 ship, so in the end, all that separates a T1 Battleship from a Covert Ops in terms of scan peformance is training level 2-5 Covert Ops skill, or four 10% bonuses stacked. And it's pretty easy for a well-skilled BS pilot to outperform an average Covert Ops pilot. So I don't think a new ship is needed. If anything, Covert Ops ships should get buffed a little. It's still a lot slower practically for exploring systems for a lot of reasons. _
Shiken Kan	Posted - 2007.12.07 21:20:00 - [25] Edited by: Shiken Kan on 07/12/2007 21:25:42 hmm i think real science vessels would be nice. Give them some sort of new scanners/probes and a lab slot that enables you to do research which gets more effective the more celestials you scan (effectiveness would diminish with rising sec status as there's not much new to find in a 1.0 sys for instance). Fittings could be pretty low for a ship of it's class because it would be a civilian vessel. As for the scanning bonuses, i don't really see a point unless you make em better then covops which would then make this class pretty useless, so i'm against it. Also saying a ship that can scan and run the plex itself is somewhat arbitrary as you'll need helluva pve ship for many 0.0 plexes while a recon will do for most hisec ones. /edit about the bonus to moon scanning time, that one is pretty useless as the probing time itself isn't the main factor in the time needed to scan a system. An agile and fast warping ship (aka frig) will most likely be faster in scanning a whole system though you sit at a ss the last half an hour of your probing. Also you need that time to make your spreadsheet and possibly try to do some first calculations. Personally fast moon probes annoy me more often then not tbh.
Feng Popo	Posted - 2007.12.07 23:15:00 - [26] What *****s me up is that in the info about the FALCON, it says tis the bigger covert-ops ship to the Buzzard. EXCEPT they left off the timer bonus. Which makes it useless for exploring.
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2007.12.08 01:33:00 - [27] Originally by: Nybbas the only point really is to have them be able to be more efficient at scanning : / Not necessarily. The system right now encourages teamwork, tradeoffs, and specialized roles. If you make a ship that can do it all, you're minimizing that. Which is great for an altless solo player like me, but not necessarily in keeping with the game's priorities. Basically I think any design that incorporates both cloaked warping and a scan time reduction is very close to being a failure right off the bat, from a game design standpoint, precisely because this is what the CovOps does, and at the expense of not being able to do much of anything else. I think what I'd like to see is something in the spirit of what MalVortex proposed. Except I hate the names. :P It might seen hard to give up that scan time bonus for Exploration. But some people were already doing so before Trinity and the introduction of the SoE launcher. So I think the sacrifice is more than acceptable if you're getting other capabilities instead. Like, for instance, a chance in hell of clearing a 0.0 site on your own without having to rely on another ship. Another way to go of course is to go ahead and give a scan time bonus, but to also enhance CovOps in some way. For instance, scan strength and/or deviation, or new mechanics like warp throttling. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
Master Technique Club Bear	Posted - 2007.12.08 04:15:00 - [28] This seems like a cool idea to me. I haven't done any exploration, but I trained an alt for it, and almost did, heh. Also, it would make sense to me to use the miner cruiser hulls: Exequror, Probe, Osprey, and, err, whatever the amarr one is called=P
Barstander Rook Takes Pawn Shop	Posted - 2007.12.08 04:33:00 - [29] I would be a big fan of this development, as I've been trying to come up with a ship design for days that would fill this role. What I have so far is this. It should have some bonus, if you can make the bonus only apply to scan probe launchers and not recon probe launchers, it preserves the covops role for ship scanning and pvp. If that isn't possible, then give it a bonus to scan time, just not as good as the covops, ala the T1 ship bonus of 5% per level. Secondly, since I like easily identifiable ships, I was hoping it would be a new ship class created by some faction, like how mining barges are created by ORE. This makes the ship identifiable and standardized across the boards. (this isn't really necessary, but would be cool none the less) third, the ship should be able to handle lite explorations sites, but be under gunned for the bigger stuff. The idea is you could do empire exploration sites in this ship, but bigger sites will require help. To that end, this ship should have good survivability and ok weapons. but at the same time, we don't want it to be a pvp monster. So maybe a low number of weapons points in the highs, but they do ok damage. Or make it really easy to jam/dampen so nobody would take it into pvp (like the new BB Class). Some bonuses to scan strength and deviation would be nice as well. Maybe bonuses to hacking/mag modules too. ok, thats what I have for now, more later.
Nybbas Sons of Enelaise Enelaise	Posted - 2007.12.08 07:47:00 - [30] i thought of something i thought was interesting today... something like a "Exploration Probe Launcher" that only the new specific class could use... and it has its own bonuses and whatnot... just an idea



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