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dosperado Denial of Service Freelancer Coalition	Posted - 2007.12.06 18:49:00 - [1] Before Trinity I was able to enable FSAA in EVE with adding advanceddevice=1 into prefs.ini. Any way to get that fixed? EVE looks still ugly without FSAA! I better would like to have a FSAA option instead of HDR... ____________________ NPC Mass Murderer Highest Security Status 8.5
MasterEnt	Posted - 2007.12.06 19:26:00 - [2] Use your cards driver settings maybe?
Mattikus	Posted - 2007.12.06 19:30:00 - [3] Originally by: MasterEnt Use your cards driver settings maybe? I've tried it....its like the new addons wont let you run HDR and AA at the same time even though my card is capable of it. :( Wish they let this happen...eve does look really really ugly without AA.
Bimjo Caldari SKULLDOGS	Posted - 2007.12.06 19:32:00 - [4] Originally by: Mattikus Originally by: MasterEnt Use your cards driver settings maybe? its like the new addons wont let you run HDR and AA at the same time I thought CCP said not to run AA and HDR at the same time as EVE's code couldn't run them both at the same time ? Q6600,8800 Ultra SLI, Vista 32, 4Gig RAM , G15 , TripleHead2Go, Raptor X
Mattikus	Posted - 2007.12.06 19:33:00 - [5] Originally by: Bimjo Originally by: Mattikus Originally by: MasterEnt Use your cards driver settings maybe? its like the new addons wont let you run HDR and AA at the same time I thought CCP said not to run AA and HDR at the same time as EVE's code couldn't run them both at the same time ? I think I remember reading or hearing something like that but I just wanted to make sure myself. Sucks terribly cause I'm sure the game could look 10 times more gorgeous with some AA turned on.
Balaurah	Posted - 2007.12.06 19:52:00 - [6] http://www.nhancer.com/ oblivion AA+HDR compatability mode
Meiyang Lee Gallente Azteca Transportation Unlimited Gunboat Diplomacy	Posted - 2007.12.06 19:56:00 - [7] unfortunately that trick won't work for an ATI (nHancer is nVidia specific afteral) and while x1000 series or above cards are supposed to support AA + HDR EVE manages to overrule the settings and shuts down AA the second you enable HDR. The Oblivion trick is basically built into the Catalyst Controls, but it doesn't work here unfortunately. Anyone know an ATI workaround?
dosperado Denial of Service Freelancer Coalition	Posted - 2007.12.06 19:57:00 - [8] Edited by: dosperado on 06/12/2007 19:57:45 I don't like to enable FSAA in my graphics driver, I like to enable it in the game. Pre-Trinity I was able to do so. Every stupid game gives me the option to enable FSAA, why they removed that option from EVE? And I don't want HDR + FSAA...I only want FSAA without HDR ;) ____________________ NPC Mass Murderer Highest Security Status 8.5
Daler Guzman Minmatar	Posted - 2007.12.06 20:04:00 - [9] i from spain and sorry for my english. Two questions: 1) I dont understand why this engine cant run AA with Bloom, that its the only HDR effect that have the engine?. There're so many games with old engines running bloom + AA: world of warcraft, red orchestra... 2) I dont understant why, with hdr disabled, there arent any options ingame for enabled AA. P.S +any solution for ATI users?
Balaurah	Posted - 2007.12.06 20:04:00 - [10] bloom isnt hdr
Kyrall Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.12.06 20:05:00 - [11] I can quite easily enable AA in my graphics driver, but it seems that every time I reboot my computer and then start Eve it goes back to no AA. I then go back the graphics card settings and it hasn't been changed, so I just click it onto it's current setting, press apply, put eve into fullscreen and back to windowed mode, just to play Eve with AA... - Sig follows: Originally by: DrBiologist I didnt know how to describe the things i was seeing. But I just tried another game and it does the same thing :( what could it be?
Daler Guzman Minmatar Academia Hispana de Pilotos	Posted - 2007.12.06 20:09:00 - [12] Edited by: Daler Guzman on 06/12/2007 20:09:44 Originally by: Balaurah bloom isnt hdr bloom its a HDR effect, HDR its a effect's collection:"Bloom (sometimes referred to as light bloom) is a computer graphics effect used in computer games, demos and high dynamic range rendering (HDR)" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloom_(shader_effect)
Asestorian Domination. Cult of War	Posted - 2007.12.06 20:14:00 - [13] I don't know what's going on here and if I actually have some kind of AA turned on, but with HDR activated everything looks fine, as if AA was activated. Either that or I'm blind. If it isn't activated it's certainly not noticeable. Click for screenshot. Unedited. It looks fine to me. --- MOZO
Balaurah	Posted - 2007.12.06 20:14:00 - [14] Originally by: Daler Guzman Edited by: Daler Guzman on 06/12/2007 20:09:44 Originally by: Balaurah bloom isnt hdr bloom its a HDR effect, HDR its a effect's collection:"Bloom (sometimes referred to as light bloom) is a computer graphics effect used in computer games, demos and high dynamic range rendering (HDR)" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloom_(shader_effect) and so bloom is also a demo and a computer game? as far as i understand, HDR is the ability to have floating point reflection... maps, or tevr. bloom is just that bright light, brighter than the monitor can display, is sort of spread, like when you put your ship between the camera and the sun, the sun's brightness "leaks" over the ship parts on the boarder between sun + ship. hdr+bloom together are what gave us glowing sheep in oblivion. bloom itself isnt HDR, and doesnt have problems when used together with AA, like HDR+AA do together.
Balaurah	Posted - 2007.12.06 20:15:00 - [15] Originally by: Asestorian I don't know what's going on here and if I actually have some kind of AA turned on, but with HDR activated everything looks fine, as if AA was activated. Either that or I'm blind. If it isn't activated it's certainly not noticeable. Click for screenshot. Unedited. It looks fine to me. looks jaggy to me
Asestorian Domination. Cult of War	Posted - 2007.12.06 20:31:00 - [16] Originally by: Balaurah Originally by: Asestorian I don't know what's going on here and if I actually have some kind of AA turned on, but with HDR activated everything looks fine, as if AA was activated. Either that or I'm blind. If it isn't activated it's certainly not noticeable. Click for screenshot. Unedited. It looks fine to me. looks jaggy to me Heh. Now that I've activated AA I can indeed see that the above screenshot is of lesser quality than this one for jaggedness. However, I still think that it looks pretty reasonable without AA. Still, it would be good for CCP to have the ability to do that available in the game without having to play around with drivers. --- MOZO
Kavol Valarius Amarr Unity of Honor Legion of Honor	Posted - 2007.12.06 20:38:00 - [17] Originally by: Asestorian Still, it would be good for CCP to have the ability to do that available in the game without having to play around with drivers. It will be, likely with the release of the next nvidia drivers. Nvidia adds "profiles" for game compatibility to each of its driver releases. All that nHancer does is allow you to make your own profile. It works, but it's a hack, personally I'd rather wait for the official nVidia driver set. Nothing wrong with using nHancer though if you want to. -----
Rhaegor Stormborn Volition Cult	Posted - 2007.12.06 20:42:00 - [18] Originally by: Kyrall I can quite easily enable AA in my graphics driver, but it seems that every time I reboot my computer and then start Eve it goes back to no AA. I then go back the graphics card settings and it hasn't been changed, so I just click it onto it's current setting, press apply, put eve into fullscreen and back to windowed mode, just to play Eve with AA... Same here. I can not enable AA with my 8800GTX. I have it set to 16x AA and it looks like jagged crap. [PIA] Recruitment Thread
Daler Guzman Minmatar Academia Hispana de Pilotos	Posted - 2007.12.06 20:49:00 - [19] Edited by: Daler Guzman on 06/12/2007 20:50:21 Originally by: Balaurah and so bloom is also a demo and a computer game? as far as i understand, HDR is the ability to have floating point reflection... maps, or tevr. bloom is just that bright light, brighter than the monitor can display, is sort of spread, like when you put your ship between the camera and the sun, the sun's brightness "leaks" over the ship parts on the boarder between sun + ship. hdr+bloom together are what gave us glowing sheep in oblivion. bloom itself isnt HDR, and doesnt have problems when used together with AA, like HDR+AA do together. i say that bloom is a HDR effect IN EVE, because you ONLY can enabled this effect with HDR enabled. I dont know 100% Technically what its HDR, but i know 100% that in eve, for the developers, bloom its a HDR effect
Fehz Combat and Mining Utility Inc. Brotherhood Of Steel	Posted - 2007.12.06 20:49:00 - [20] Isn't HDR + AA only a capability in DirectX 10? For now, I'd like an option to enable AA instead of HDR. AA is so much more important for some people. I haven't played with the drivers much yet.. just running it with HDR since I can't do AA. I'll see what I can do later with my 8800gtx and vista 64.. ============================ my signature is confidential
Balaurah	Posted - 2007.12.06 20:55:00 - [21] Originally by: Daler Guzman Edited by: Daler Guzman on 06/12/2007 20:50:21 Originally by: Balaurah and so bloom is also a demo and a computer game? as far as i understand, HDR is the ability to have floating point reflection... maps, or tevr. bloom is just that bright light, brighter than the monitor can display, is sort of spread, like when you put your ship between the camera and the sun, the sun's brightness "leaks" over the ship parts on the boarder between sun + ship. hdr+bloom together are what gave us glowing sheep in oblivion. bloom itself isnt HDR, and doesnt have problems when used together with AA, like HDR+AA do together. i say that bloom is a HDR effect IN EVE, because you ONLY can enabled this effect with HDR enabled. I dont know 100% Technically what its HDR, but i know 100% that in eve, for the developers, bloom its a HDR effect in eve, its only available with hdr enabled, but i was aiming at "There're so many games with old engines running bloom + AA: world of warcraft, red orchestra...", saying no, that is not HDR, which is why AA works with it on those games. anyway, heres a pretty chart so you can see what the different modes look like (anti aliasing, high dynamic range rendering, and bloom) OVER 9000 HOURS IN MS PAINT!
Balaurah	Posted - 2007.12.06 20:57:00 - [22] Originally by: Fehz Isn't HDR + AA only a capability in DirectX 10? For now, I'd like an option to enable AA instead of HDR. AA is so much more important for some people. I haven't played with the drivers much yet.. just running it with HDR since I can't do AA. I'll see what I can do later with my 8800gtx and vista 64.. If you have an nvidia card, use nhancer.
Daler Guzman Minmatar Academia Hispana de Pilotos	Posted - 2007.12.06 21:02:00 - [23] Edited by: Daler Guzman on 06/12/2007 21:05:43 Originally by: Balaurah anyway, heres a pretty chart so you can see what the different modes look like (anti aliasing, high dynamic range rendering, and bloom) OVER 9000 HOURS IN MS PAINT! yes probably i dont be a hdr expert,but you say that in eve bloom isnt a hdr effect and the only reality its that IN EVE ONLINE for the developers the bloom effect its a HDR effect or please how can i enabled bloom without HDR enabled? its in eve Bloom a HDR effect yes or not? The answer its YEs because the developers say yes, if this is wrong isnt my error will be the developers error. PS. in red orchestra the setting say "HDR Bloom"
Fehz Combat and Mining Utility Inc. Brotherhood Of Steel	Posted - 2007.12.06 21:07:00 - [24] Originally by: Balaurah Originally by: Fehz Isn't HDR + AA only a capability in DirectX 10? For now, I'd like an option to enable AA instead of HDR. AA is so much more important for some people. I haven't played with the drivers much yet.. just running it with HDR since I can't do AA. I'll see what I can do later with my 8800gtx and vista 64.. If you have an nvidia card, use nhancer. Really... I've been wanting to toss rivatuner since it won't overclock with the latest beta drivers... I'm sure there's a new release of rivatuner that lets you do it, but.. I'm lazy. I'll give nhancer another shot. I didn't like it on the first go-around.. maybe my extremely short attention span contributed to that..
Balaurah	Posted - 2007.12.06 21:16:00 - [25] Originally by: Fehz Originally by: Balaurah Originally by: Fehz Isn't HDR + AA only a capability in DirectX 10? For now, I'd like an option to enable AA instead of HDR. AA is so much more important for some people. I haven't played with the drivers much yet.. just running it with HDR since I can't do AA. I'll see what I can do later with my 8800gtx and vista 64.. If you have an nvidia card, use nhancer. Really... I've been wanting to toss rivatuner since it won't overclock with the latest beta drivers... I'm sure there's a new release of rivatuner that lets you do it, but.. I'm lazy. I'll give nhancer another shot. I didn't like it on the first go-around.. maybe my extremely short attention span contributed to that.. its not too hard, heres all you need to do (after you install it and whatnot) launch it, make sure "Options->show tray icon" is ticked on the list of programs in the windows in the top left, scroll down to Eve Online on the Settings pannel on the right half of the window, make sure the Profile option is selected (NOT global) enhancements tab, tick Anti-Aliasing, and pick a mode, either Multisampling or Coverage Sample (thing CSAA has a lower perfomance hit, tho i use MSAA) tick Anisotropic Filtering (if you want it) and select a number change to the Compatability tab tick "Anti-Aliasing compatability", and scroll down to "000000...00000000000045: Oblivion (AA & HDR)" DONE! if you want to run AA without HDR, you need to uncheck the anti-aliasing compatability box, couldnt turn AA on alone without HDR, with it checked.
Balaurah	Posted - 2007.12.06 21:22:00 - [26] Originally by: Daler Guzman yes probably i dont be a hdr expert,but you say that in eve bloom isnt a hdr effect and the only reality its that IN EVE ONLINE for the developers the bloom effect its a HDR effect or please how can i enabled bloom without HDR enabled? its in eve Bloom a HDR effect yes or not? The answer its YEs because the developers say yes, if this is wrong isnt my error will be the developers error. PS. in red orchestra the setting say "HDR Bloom" sigh, what i was saying was, that because other games have bloom working with AA, does not mean they have full HDR working with AA. it doesnt use the floating point reflections, which is what AA has compatability issues with on some cards. bloom, i believe, is an older technology. for example, the radeon 9800 series did not support HDR, but could run bloom, in for example, HL2 lost coast. Quoth the wiki "Before HDRR was fully developed and implemented, games would create an illusion of HDR by using light blooming"
Ramingo	Posted - 2007.12.06 21:53:00 - [27] Originally by: Balaurah Originally by: Fehz Originally by: Balaurah Originally by: Fehz Isn't HDR + AA only a capability in DirectX 10? For now, I'd like an option to enable AA instead of HDR. AA is so much more important for some people. I haven't played with the drivers much yet.. just running it with HDR since I can't do AA. I'll see what I can do later with my 8800gtx and vista 64.. If you have an nvidia card, use nhancer. Really... I've been wanting to toss rivatuner since it won't overclock with the latest beta drivers... I'm sure there's a new release of rivatuner that lets you do it, but.. I'm lazy. I'll give nhancer another shot. I didn't like it on the first go-around.. maybe my extremely short attention span contributed to that.. its not too hard, heres all you need to do (after you install it and whatnot) launch it, make sure "Options->show tray icon" is ticked on the list of programs in the windows in the top left, scroll down to Eve Online on the Settings pannel on the right half of the window, make sure the Profile option is selected (NOT global) enhancements tab, tick Anti-Aliasing, and pick a mode, either Multisampling or Coverage Sample (thing CSAA has a lower perfomance hit, tho i use MSAA) tick Anisotropic Filtering (if you want it) and select a number change to the Compatability tab tick "Anti-Aliasing compatability", and scroll down to "000000...00000000000045: Oblivion (AA & HDR)" DONE! if you want to run AA without HDR, you need to uncheck the anti-aliasing compatability box, couldnt turn AA on alone without HDR, with it checked. followed your steps, but not working with 8800gtx.. aa still only working without hdr
Balaurah	Posted - 2007.12.06 22:00:00 - [28] did you close nHancer? oh, and are you running it windowed? If not, can you post a screeny of the nhancer settings screen, and an ingame screeny?
Mox Kaleb Caldari Omega Point Logistics	Posted - 2007.12.06 22:20:00 - [29] I have followed Kyrall's procedure, recognising that even if you reset anti-aliasing in your graphics card options, Eve will revert to no AA as soon as you have rebooted your PC, or logged out then in again. As per Kyrall's procedure, if I open my ATI settings (in my case from Omega drivers, so via the default Display menu in Control Panel), reset something, for instance move AA from 8x back to 4x, then back 8x (thus enabling the 'apply' button, which would have been greyed out before resetting something), press apply, then start Eve - hey presto, full screen AA is enabled. I am not interested in HDR, just in having no jaggys. It would appear that we of the ATI crowd are at a disadvantage with regard to a permanent fix for this problem, unlike the nVidia guys, with the 'nhancer' utility. Presumably there will be a fix for this at some stage, my hope being that CCP put the anti-aliasing option back into the ingame menu, or something similar, but I guess with the boot.ini problems, the AA fix will be a way down the list. I'll have to live with resetting AA prior to every Eve session. Any other ATI users who have a more permanent fix, I'd love to hear it! (I'm using an AGP 1950 Pro 512mb by the way, with Omega drivers, since I have never been able to get rid of an old CCC installation, so can't install new genuine ATI drivers anymore)
Meiyang Lee Gallente Azteca Transportation Unlimited Gunboat Diplomacy	Posted - 2007.12.06 22:49:00 - [30] Edited by: Meiyang Lee on 06/12/2007 22:53:46 Originally by: Mox Kaleb It would appear that we of the ATI crowd are at a disadvantage with regard to a permanent fix for this problem, unlike the nVidia guys, with the 'nhancer' utility. Presumably there will be a fix for this at some stage, my hope being that CCP put the anti-aliasing option back into the ingame menu, or something similar, but I guess with the boot.ini problems, the AA fix will be a way down the list. I'll have to live with resetting AA prior to every Eve session. Any other ATI users who have a more permanent fix, I'd love to hear it! (I'm using an AGP 1950 Pro 512mb by the way, with Omega drivers, since I have never been able to get rid of an old CCC installation, so can't install new genuine ATI drivers anymore) Can you create profiles like you can with the newer Catalyst Drivers? Because if you can, you can set the AA profile you want, save it as a profile and let it create a shortcut on your desktop, if you also link it to eve.exe you can use that shortcut to enable AA and launch eve at the same time, that works for me. However i'd like to add HDR aswell, but the instant HDR goes up, AA shuts down, even if i force it with the drivers. ------------------------------------------------------ On a different note, have you tried something like Driver Cleaner Pro to obliterate the last remnants of that CCC install? Works very well for most drivers.
Mysdora	Posted - 2007.12.07 00:46:00 - [31] Edited by: Mysdora on 07/12/2007 00:49:11 I'm guessing the AA problem exists because EVE uses 16b floating point buffers for HDR, but not all DX9.0c cards support hardware multisampling and FP16 blending at the same time. It would have been possible to go the HL2 way of using SM2.0 fixed point buffers to get HDR+AA with negligible effect on quality, while also supporting a wider range of cards, but CCP probably had other features weighing heavily in favor of SM3.0. The DX10 client shouldn't have any of these issues. The bloom effect itself doesn't necessarily have anything to do with HDR rendering. It just happens to be a great way of rubbing your shiny new HDR engine in the player's face, so it's being horribly overused in just about every modern game. Technically you could do a bloom effect with dx8 level hardware, you just store high luminosity values somewhere, blur it and blend with the original frame. Heck of a lot faster than HDR bloom too, although not nearly as nice quality. With so many different ways of implementing specular bloom, it's not really meaningful to say "look, that game has bloom and AA, why doesn't this have too?" As for that nHancer thing, I haven't tried it myself, but I'd be very surprised if it produces correct results with both HDR and AA enabled.
Cyrus Teymour	Posted - 2007.12.09 02:44:00 - [32] Modified my (working) FSAA profile to include the HDR hack - no luck. Whatever EVE is using is not possible to AA on my 7900 GS. (Note: The standard nVidia profile for EVE Online doesn't work. You have to create one for ExeFile.exe.)
SnakeByte86	Posted - 2007.12.09 02:59:00 - [33] Originally by: MasterEnt Use your cards driver settings maybe? you cant use it now, EVE overpowers driver settings, which is just silly.
Azrael Maxim Flexible Demeanour	Posted - 2007.12.09 03:27:00 - [34] Originally by: Cyrus Teymour Modified my (working) FSAA profile to include the HDR hack - no luck. Whatever EVE is using is not possible to AA on my 7900 GS. (Note: The standard nVidia profile for EVE Online doesn't work. You have to create one for ExeFile.exe.) Only the 8800 series nvidia cards are able to run aa and hdr at the same time, using nhancer that is. I hope ccp will create an advanced device option menu with these options at some point though its a bit of a shame that they havnt had the time to do it yet.

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