| Pages: 1 2 :: [one page] |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Morkt Drakt
   |
Posted - 2004.03.10 14:57:00 -
[1]
Follow on from todays CSM - the below Question was raised from player questions on the forums here:
 Quote:
Morkt Drak > 1) Who killed who, where, when and in what, with what - these are the quintessential "Must haves" of any combat report/article or event. ATM it is too difficult to get these figures even if all sides co-operate (as only the "victim" gets an eve-mail). Can CCP re-institute the "you killed XYZ" eve-mails that we had in Beta? Also: a publically viewable, searchable comprehensive kill-list would be of immense value and use to "the press" as well as being of interest to almost everybody in EVE. Will CCP provide a accessible daily file of all kills, via a downloadable file? Given the raw data the player community is MORE than capable of producing their own front end for it... and thus CCP only need provide the raw data.
Chandra > we obviously have this data in the DB, so we could look into it
Chandra > but are you sure everybody would want this to be public?
SolarisCCP > Yes, we like this and are already collecting this data for various purposes. We could immediately re-instate the concord mail about killing.
Discorporation > @
SolarisCCP > but as TomB notes, there is a question about wehter this should be public or not.
SolarisCCP > Kill lists that is.
Caleb Ayrania > @
semp > @
Morkt Drak > There is more "angst" generated by not-knowing than by knowing I would suggest.... but, no, not everybody will always agree, they never do, on anything.
Morkt Drak > From an RP perspective though - surely CONCORD would provide this data for insurance purposes - it does track it afterall?
Morkt Drak > .
SolarisCCP > I believe something like this would be very interesting, input is wanted on this issue.
SolarisCCP > Yes, Concord does track this.
SolarisCCP > .
Discorporation > Please re-instate the concord kill e-mails as soon as possible. They save a LOT of confusion and ultimately a lot of pointless forum smacktalk. We'd even go so far as to create killboards making use of this information. Furthermore, would it simply be possible to allow users to specify wether or not their information should be lsited in a downloadable list such as the one morkt suggested?
Caleb Ayrania > There really should be a distinction between publically observed, and hence posted info, and non observed and hence secret events. (basing it on wether or not it was in empire 0.1+ would be fair on all I believe.) "secret event could be piled by players, if the mails was sent to the victims these could be worked/repported to someone willing to publicize it.. Personally I dont want everyone to know what I do in 0.0 I would think most pirates etc thinks in this direction aswell.
Discorporation > .
Caleb Ayrania > .
SolarisCCP > points noted
SolarisCCP > .
semp > the sooner basic confirmations of kills etc is in the better, but it would also be good if you could have weekly kill lists sorted by corps/alliances etc.
Please will pilots indicate pros/cons and ideas, wants and so forth.
Please leave any Smak-Talk at the gate; Offenders will be percolated.
|
Reverend Necrona
|
Posted - 2004.03.10 15:04:00 -
[2]
Simple.
<Homo Errectus> HAHA NEWBIE CURSE! YOU SUCK! UNLUCKY <RANDOM CA PILOT NAME> WE GOT YOUR BATTLESHIP EARLIER
<Reverend Necrona> Well done, but we nailed your fleet on jumping into u-qvwd.
<Shrike> No we do not lose ships.... ever...
<Duke Droklar> <PASTE OF KILL REPORT>
<Shrike> erm... - sutty, help
So liek.. yea whenever you can CCP.
Reverend Necrona |
Arthur Guinness
|
Posted - 2004.03.10 15:08:00 -
[3]
Con:
- no need for intel on kills
Pro:
- less smacktalk
Would be cool if kills could be linked to battles too.
Kill:
PlayerA(Battleship) kills PlayerB (Battleship) at battle in sundays U-QWVD battle.
so you could query "give kills from sundays U-QWVD battle"
I think some info should certainly be displayed, maybe limit it to ship class.
Maybe add who was shooting someone, if it was a 1 vs many kill.
I really do hope we get a kill board.
At least in a basic version. |
Morkt Drakt
|
Posted - 2004.03.10 15:16:00 -
[4]
Quote:
Would be cool if kills could be linked to battles too.
FI we get the raw daily data we can mine for that info ourselves... sky is the limmit on what we can do wtih the data once we get it (daily files).
|
Arthur Guinness
|
Posted - 2004.03.10 15:26:00 -
[5]
Quote:
Quote:
Would be cool if kills could be linked to battles too.
FI we get the raw daily data we can mine for that info ourselves... sky is the limmit on what we can do wtih the data once we get it (daily files).
yer ofc, if we'd get csv files or something whit who killed who and locaton (maybe even ship class or ship type, gun type...) the community could do such stuff.
So the main argument is about how much data should be given out and if it's optional or not?
Pro:
+ more accurate battle reports
+ more accurate knowledge of ship losses
+ less smack talk
i see a lot of potential :)
don't think it would affect any RP perspective of the game.
So i don't really see any cons atm. |
Sequin
|
Posted - 2004.03.10 15:30:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Sequin on 10/03/2004 15:33:33
Rev, I'm disappointed. You went from posting a good thread to becoming another CA troller in under 10 minutes.
Please point me to anywhere where something like this has EVER happened? I'll probably be ***** slapped for even bothering, but i'd like to know.
^A Raem Civre Original
EVE-Trade, for your buying and selling needs. A Voogru original.
[i]Redon > evol and mass have a GM helping them with everything
Redon > notice how they always get ships replaced and none of us cant <--- Hurray for teamwork!
b]
We are evil exploiters! |
Sun Wu
|
Posted - 2004.03.10 15:36:00 -
[7]
I think what the game really needs on this area is a both private and open part of corp info on the website.
You can already see the corp name under people's names, it could easily be made into a link to a public portion about each corp on the website, containing the obvious logo of the corp, name, CEO, description, membercount and possible other information like amount of stocks and their price if a stock market ever gets implemented. In addition It would show overall war stats for that corp, which wars they have declared, which have been declared against them. Each war will lead to a more detailed page about the war.
When it started, by whom, how many kills of each ship class total aswell as during each day on both sides, aswell as a declaration of hostilities that the aggressor(the person who started the war) filled in, along with some kind of official statement by the defending corp on what it thinks about the corp war.
In addition to that info which is publically available there could later on be some form of surrender options that the agressor can define, assuming such a contract will be possible in the future. Whether that is open information could be discussed, it might be intresting to let the aggressor and defender choose whether they want that information public.
On the nonpublic side, which would be visible to participants only, we could then see more detailed information. That would be statistics for each day listing what system the kill was in, who flew which ship, who killed that person. It would also contain a kill-list for that current war for each side's pilots so that we could have some friendly competition within the corps. Perhaps corp leadership could put bounties and awards for a certain amount of kills or certain amount of materials destroyed.
Station ownership and taking over should also be visible on either the public or private side, which one should perhaps be open to discussion, it should list who owned it, for how long they kept it and the likes, making it possible to see that corp A kept station 456 for 75% of the time during the last 10 days or so, for example.
All this would make wars something you might want to declare, atleast more than right now. It would also mean the corp can see better and easier who killed what, who got killed how, and the public and combatants alike could follow how wars play out.
As for alliances, if those get implemented into the game itself this would obviously be possible to make for them aswell, else each corp could just declare the war on all in the other alliance, still making it possible on a per corp basis to see all kills/killed and other info about the current wars.
________________________________
|
Mitchman
|
Posted - 2004.03.10 15:38:00 -
[8]
Sorry to interupt the flaming, but I would say that some people would probably object to public kill lists, the same way people objected to the old Scope reporters etc. This might be doable later on, and I certainly wouldn't mind, but for the time being I suggest the following:
- Every time a member of a corp is killed, a corp mail goes out to every member or the CEO/Directors of that same corp (configurable).
- Every time a corp member is in on killing someone else, a corp mail goes out to every member or the CEO/Directors of the corp participating in the kill (configurable).
It would seem like a good idea to keep the CEO in the loop about what his corp members are doing when it comes to getting killed or being killed, with the option to turn it off.
Next step might be public kill lists, but I'm pretty sure some people will object and the list will be removed fairly quickly.
|
Discorporation
|
Posted - 2004.03.10 15:40:00 -
[9]
Give me this.
[Heterocephalus glaber]
|
Sun Wu
|
Posted - 2004.03.10 15:40:00 -
[10]
Quote:
Sorry to interupt the flaming, but I would say that some people would probably object to public kill lists, the same way people objected to the old Scope reporters etc. This might be doable later on, and I certainly wouldn't mind, but for the time being I suggest the following:
- Every time a member of a corp is killed, a corp mail goes out to every member or the CEO/Directors of that same corp (configurable).
- Every time a corp member is in on killing someone else, a corp mail goes out to every member or the CEO/Directors of the corp participating in the kill (configurable).
It would seem like a good idea to keep the CEO in the loop about what his corp members are doing when it comes to getting killed or being killed, with the option to turn it off.
Next step might be public kill lists, but I'm pretty sure some people will object and the list will be removed fairly quickly.
The scope issue was another of an automatically created list. This is about automatically and dynamically building a good visual representation of information that exists within the database already. There would be no "human" interaction creating this, hence it would per default not have it's own potential angle to it.
________________________________
|
SirMolle
|
Posted - 2004.03.10 15:46:00 -
[11]
In one word.
YES. Reinstate kill mails. YES.
|
Reiisha
|
Posted - 2004.03.10 15:55:00 -
[12]
We want kill mails!!!!
Gamersland.nl, DE site voor PC gaming! |
Seleene
|
Posted - 2004.03.10 15:56:00 -
[13]
KILL MAILS! GIVE! NOW! 
-
T2 Weapons Testing in progress! Volunteer today! |
Mitchman
|
Posted - 2004.03.10 16:12:00 -
[14]
Quote:
The scope issue was another of an automatically created list. This is about automatically and dynamically building a good visual representation of information that exists within the database already. There would be no "human" interaction creating this, hence it would per default not have it's own potential angle to it.
Yes, I realize that, but I still think kill mails will do for the time being, there are a number of issues involved in making that kind of information public that will cause trouble. 99% prolly wouldn't mind, but that 1% can make a lot of noise.
|
Morkt Drakt
|
Posted - 2004.03.10 16:15:00 -
[15]
Quote:
Sorry to interupt the flaming, but I would say that some people would probably object to public kill lists, the same way people objected to the old Scope reporters etc. This might be doable later on, and I certainly wouldn't mind, but for the time being I suggest the following:
- Every time a member of a corp is killed, a corp mail goes out to every member or the CEO/Directors of that same corp (configurable).
- Every time a corp member is in on killing someone else, a corp mail goes out to every member or the CEO/Directors of the corp participating in the kill (configurable).
It would seem like a good idea to keep the CEO in the loop about what his corp members are doing when it comes to getting killed or being killed, with the option to turn it off.
Next step might be public kill lists, but I'm pretty sure some people will object and the list will be removed fairly quickly.
Totally aree with the other comment on this:
This is about providing raw data. It has nothing to do with interpretation by select individuals... the data would be there for everybody to query should they wish.
In essence this ENDS the Scope issues (and EG and the IR) as we at long last all get acces to check kills on our accord.
|
Ronyo Dae'Loki
|
Posted - 2004.03.10 16:18:00 -
[16]
I agree, I want kill emails to return.
Kill stats might be interesting, but I don't care about them so much as I do the kill emails.
-------------
My salsa makes all the pretty girls want to dance and take off their underpants.
I <3 ( . Y . ) |
Primer Xenius
|
Posted - 2004.03.10 16:26:00 -
[17]
I think people would not and could not be annoyed at this data being public. The approach CCP should take is to look at it from the perspective of roleplayering i.e Could concord know about this?
Now in some 0.0 situations, the answer used to be no since insurance was not automatic at 40%. However now as in any real life insurance company, they will ask you a ton of question before they fork over 80 mil for a new battleship. Thus, concord SHOULD have access to most of the kill info ingame.
CCP could argue any roleplaying reason why CONCORD would release that information.
"we all know CA planned to attack Xetic "when the time was right" from day1" - Lallante
|
Darkcraft
|
Posted - 2004.03.10 16:27:00 -
[18]
Mitchman's idea was what i was going to suggest, but if need be also add a role that can be assigned so that whoever has that corp role also gets sent the mails about corp deaths and kills / assisted kills.
|
Conrad
|
Posted - 2004.03.10 16:30:00 -
[19]
yes, eve mails that display kills is nice.
Kill lists perhaps amongst corp members would be more appropriate than a full public list. Like perhaps when a corp member logs on he says everyone killed by a corp member, and everyone that killed a corp member. That way proper audits can be made as to why a corp member killed someone, since a corp member can not deny it. Would also be nice to know who is killing corp members so proper action can be taken 
|
Reverend Necrona
|
Posted - 2004.03.10 16:39:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Reverend Necrona on 10/03/2004 16:41:29
Quote:
Edited by: Sequin on 10/03/2004 15:33:33
Rev, I'm disappointed. You went from posting a good thread to becoming another CA troller in under 10 minutes.
Please point me to anywhere where something like this has EVER happened? I'll probably be ***** slapped for even bothering, but i'd like to know.
Twas a joke - was just pointing out an example - seeing as OC and Evolution never saw eye to eye in kill scores (as most enemies never do) you drew the short straw and thus were involved in my little demonstration.
No intention to offend, well maybe just a little bit
Reverend Necrona |
Jakal
|
Posted - 2004.03.10 16:40:00 -
[21]
Kill mails would rock
-Adapt and Overcome.
|
dalman
|
Posted - 2004.03.10 18:17:00 -
[22]
Well, as some may now, I made a request for this in general discussion a few days ago, with "only" positive feedback.
What I would want to see:
1. Bring in "kill-mails". This just "have to be implemented". It requires very little work from CCP. "All" the code should already be there. This should have no cons at all.
2. I'd want to have access to get a raw list with all deaths.
3. Ultimately I'd like a page on this website. Where you pick a solarsystem, hit go, and then get a list of all ships that have been destroyed there in the last 24 hours (or 7 days). I really don't see why anyone would complain about that. It would only make it possible for everyone to check the outcome of every big battle, which is impossible for everyone today. Same thing could be done by "sort by corp", but I'm pretty sure people would scream about their integrity then .
M.I.A. since 2004-07-30 |
pooti
|
Posted - 2004.03.10 18:45:00 -
[23]
kill mails are all i need
|
Gyrn Fzirth
|
Posted - 2004.03.10 19:01:00 -
[24]
Quote:
kill mails are all i need
Kill mails would be nice. Would also be nice to have something in there like a digital signature so people don't think we forged them (wouldn't believe how many times peeps say logs are forged etc.)
Beyond the kill mails, I would also like to see a public kill list. Unfortunately, not everyone would agree so I think a compromise is in order: Post public kill-lists of casualties of war. If a kill was made during a war, post it up in all it's gory detail.
This way, carebear types that only want to mine and be fat/happy all the time can toil away without their occasional losses being public discussion fodder. If, however, their corp is involved in a war and they are killed by the opposing corporation then the kill would be posted.
At that point it might also be possible to set a "first to 20 BS killed" type goal in a war. "Pay us 5Billion ISK or we'll destroy 100 of your battleships!" etc.
===============
Killboard: http://www.celeskills.com
|
StiZum Hilidii
|
Posted - 2004.03.10 21:29:00 -
[25]
kill mails would rock.
also some sort of kill database would be very cool imho.
STAN
FACTA NON VERBA |
Lou Zeta
|
Posted - 2004.03.10 22:15:00 -
[26]
Vote Yes for Kill Lists! :)
Maybe make it configurable so you can end up as "anonymous" in the list but your corpname is still shown with details about your ship and who fired/killed you and what kind of ship(s) he/she/they had.
And in that case make it so if you are anonymous you won't show up with your name as a killer either so some ppl can't hide behind anonymous to not be shown when they are killed but show their name when they kill someone.
Corpname can't be anonymous, the list would be quite useless then.
The con with a kill list would be that some ppl would aim to be the best killer and thus maybe kill noobs and use exploits (even more than now) or even kill the same player over and over and over again just to climb to the top.
So there probably got to be some kind of protection against that.
In short ... Yes! Do it and dump all the rawdata live and let the community do the job and parse it.
// Lou Zeta
Owner and Editor | [email protected]
EVE Guardian : Fast, reliable and uncensored |
DREAMWORKS
|
Posted - 2004.03.10 22:20:00 -
[27]
I would rather have only a few classes of ships be noted in the kill list or maybe tied to certain aspects, for instance war, alliance war etc. Have a nice database too look up a player, the ammount of people he/she killed or got killed.
Also its not realistic to post every n00b (ship) that got himself killed, i was in Curse for a week and killed 4 that got in Curse some way... It's my job to kill them as a member of Curse alliance to keep the area safe of spies and unwanted guest, but having it worked out in a database seems a bit unrequired and gives uncorrect overview. Else you will find people who will deliberate kill noob ships to get a high ranking in kills or whatsoever without ever requiring skills, such lame people exist and seem to get a kick out of it.
Personally i would say only wars / alliance wars (which makes this feature perfect to be extra additional to Shiva with its alliances in future sight), and only ships as Battleships and cruisers.
We can add Industrial ships to that, but it doesn't really take much skills to kill such a ship. But maybe for an overview of who creates the most logistic havoc it would be nice, and my frigate alt might come in the top 10 list. whehe.
__________________________
http://www.nin.com/visuals/thtf_hi.html |
Sun Wu
|
Posted - 2004.03.10 22:26:00 -
[28]
It's in a database already, so it might aswell be used to more. All the information needed is there anyways, all that is missing is a part on the website that is used to show that information in a readable way.
________________________________
|
Morkt Drakt
|
Posted - 2004.03.10 22:29:00 -
[29]
Limiting ship types excludes entire corps who fight in frigtes, interceptors, bombers, assault frigs and spec-ops frigs.... I dont think you can delimit the options "just like that"... and Their loses can be more significant in terms of ISK nowadays in anycase.
"Only" posting data for wars though... thats a good idea. .. as is the option to remain "anonymous".
The KEY element for "the press" and for sides in a war is to be able to actually mine data to judge how a conflict is going, or the relative outcome of a battle.
We all see how popular such battle reports are.. and we all see how they invariably descend into flaming over who killed who and who didn't.
Yes... "anonymous" option, Wars but all ship types.
|
Joshua Calvert
|
Posted - 2004.03.10 22:49:00 -
[30]
The problem comes when people inevitably call for a "Kills Table" listing the player with the most kills in a given period of time - is that possible and, if so, how would you ensure Johny Gank-His-Own-Alt-70-Times-An-Hour, doesn't come out on top?
Hell, I'd take a kill email just because you dunno if you've killed someone with the stupid damage indicator being bjorked and your missiles took the can or they warped out!!
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Darkcraft
|
Posted - 2004.03.10 23:49:00 -
[31]
What if you had to pay concord to get specific information about kills / deaths relating to corp X. Corp X could either then pay concord to be kept informed of who pays for information relating to them, or they could pay concord to not let any corps or a specific corp Y from having access to that information.
Depending on the ammount of money paid u could get access to certain levels of information, price per day, week, month etc.. could reveal specific ship info, only frigates or only moas or all ships... could also limit the ammount of information to maybe just corp and ship type in the specific time frame, and then pay more for time, system, pilot, involved parties, who made the actual kill and so on.
Corporation X can then pay various ammounts per time frame to keep certain areas of information hidden etc..
what do people think?
|
DP Mephisto
|
Posted - 2004.03.11 14:49:00 -
[32]
Kill-mails, yes to the following users:
The player that got killed:
Your <ship type> has been destroyed by <The actual killer>.
Location: <system of destruction>.
Time: <time of destruction>.
The actual killer:
You have successfully vaporized <player that got killed>Æs <ship type>.
Location: <system of destruction>
Time: <time of destruction>
To the corporation and the current gang of <the player that got killed>:
< The actual killer> has successfully vaporized <player that got killed>Æs <ship type>.
Location: <system of destruction>.
Time: <time of destruction>.
To the corporation and the current gang of <The actual killer>:
<player that got killed>Æs <ship type> is successfully vaporized by <The actual killer> .
Location: <system of destruction>.
Time: <time of destruction>.
The information can be extended by ship information of the <actual killer> as well.
This is only a suggestion, but from my point of view it will be a nice feature. I hope it adds to the discussion.
Concord spreading information would open a new way of ôtradeö. But it should not easy accessible, large amounts of money / bribes should be paid to acquire this kind of information.
And last but not least:
If the kills are more then 2 weeks old, they should be given out on special trade cards the ôempire huggersö can carry around in their ships and exchange them. Each trade card containing an specific information about the kill or destruction. One trade card a six pack Quafe j/k
Eve-Concepts:
Player vs player action trough the agent system
|
bUBbLeS
|
Posted - 2004.03.11 15:11:00 -
[33]
i know who i have killed.... i've got thier corpses...
thats the only trophy that REALLY counts
:P
Julius ceaser : "operor vos volo MCCCXXXVII laganum bUBbLeS?"
|
Morkt Drakt
|
Posted - 2004.03.11 16:01:00 -
[34]
Just a reminder to all, as per the Genreal Discussion thread going off-track:
We are discussing Kill evemails AND kill-lists. The list being a raw file that is dumped and available on a daily basis, unsorted info@.
It is NOT talking about kill-tables or anysuch associated nonsense.
|
Reptar
|
Posted - 2004.03.11 16:07:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Reptar on 11/03/2004 16:08:39
ops didnt read down
|
Joshua Calvert
|
Posted - 2004.03.11 17:12:00 -
[36]
Sorry, Morkt, but I think it's inevitable that, if raw data becomes available to all, some smart person will figure out how to parse it and create a Kill Table based on ship kills/character name/ship killed.
Therefore I feel discussion of kill emails/raw data will have to, at some point, touch on Kill Tables.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Sun Wu
|
Posted - 2004.03.11 18:07:00 -
[37]
And since that data might or might not be able as a raw feed for 3rd parties one can also hope for CCP to provide us with the tools and some form of digested data, be it kill lists for wars or for a person or a corp ...
________________________________
|
Reverend Necrona
|
Posted - 2004.03.11 18:19:00 -
[38]
Aye player made websites with kill tables will soon pop up if rawr database dumps were made public, would be nice. I'm sure people like Tank CEO and what not would be up there - even with a guy with his alts doing that, i mean its a lot of effort just to get at the top of some leauge on a website, imo.
Reverend Necrona |
Morkt Drakt
|
Posted - 2004.03.11 18:28:00 -
[39]
Quote:
Sorry, Morkt, but I think it's inevitable that, if raw data becomes available to all, some smart person will figure out how to parse it and create a Kill Table based on ship kills/character name/ship killed.
Therefore I feel discussion of kill emails/raw data will have to, at some point, touch on Kill Tables.
I do agree with you Joshua, I just think "unofficial" kill tables aren't a big deal. I also suspect that given the same files folks will manage to come up with a multitude of different rules, none of which are satsifactory, and will thus produce a lot of, essentially, junk tables... of no meaning or much worth.
Its only "a problem" if they try to do it officially - i think.
|
Kin Hanyerec
|
Posted - 2004.03.11 18:29:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Kin Hanyerec on 11/03/2004 18:31:34
I don't like the idea of the kill lists...
because in a battle one of the most difficult thing to know is the damage you have really inflicted to the enemy. Kill list would not allow media manipulation of the final score, and cut off the mediatic part  (which is also part of the battle)
|
Fi T'Zeh
|
Posted - 2004.03.11 19:03:00 -
[41]
I think that's EXACTLY what the publicising of the data would acheive. The removal of some of the bullsh't from these forums, which can only be a good thing.
Gimme.
....
|
Fi T'Zeh
|
Posted - 2004.03.11 19:05:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Fi T'Zeh on 11/03/2004 19:06:16
gg double post
....
|
Evol Kinevol
|
Posted - 2004.03.12 00:03:00 -
[43]
Other MPorgs have league tables etc for clans, individual players would be nice to see the highest "killing corps" and other groovy stats like that.
|
Kirsten
|
Posted - 2004.03.12 00:03:00 -
[44]
mail yes, but a list isnt really suited for this game
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 :: [one page] |