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eliminator2
Gallente
Black Water.
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Posted - 2008.04.23 08:06:00 -
[181]
/signed |
Cpt Cosmic
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Posted - 2008.04.23 09:06:00 -
[182]
AF will still have problems against bigger ships to be a Assault Ships.
the reason is simple:
1. Web which you could fix with mass and AB bonus
2. and ONE single large/med neut will kill your cap that means it will kill your signature tank too because no cap = no AB. that sends you back to point/problem 1.
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Edmund Khan
Destructive Influence
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.04.23 12:02:00 -
[183]
All they need it Web resistance bonus and AB boost bonus. Something like 15% per level. |
Sabrina Al'Kian
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Posted - 2008.04.23 17:06:00 -
[184]
I disagree with web resistence, especially on the Jag (if you give it a sig bonus). That would make them completely unhittable by BS sized guns and most heavy drones.
If you want to give them Ewar resistance bonuses, go for the opposed race's bonus: amarr get web resistence, Gallente get ECM resistence, Minmatar get Nos/neut resistence, Caldari get damp and... scram?... resistence... etc...
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Deadeye Devie
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.04.23 19:11:00 -
[185]
 Originally by: Sabrina Al'Kian
I disagree with web resistence, especially on the Jag (if you give it a sig bonus). That would make them completely unhittable by BS sized guns and most heavy drones.
If you want to give them Ewar resistance bonuses, go for the opposed race's bonus: amarr get web resistence, Gallente get ECM resistence, Minmatar get Nos/neut resistence, Caldari get damp and... scram?... resistence... etc...
if handled right, the web resist wont make them unhittable, just hard to get hold of and pop....remember, other players use differant setups so 1 can hold, the other pop!!
but as for the ewar bonus, thsats what i been hoping for!
amar, 1 gets TP, other gets web
minmatar, 1 gets nos/neut, the other gets tracking disruptor
gallenti, 1 gets ecm, the other eccm (i think)
caldari, 1 gets target dampeners, other gets scram resist
in other words, not 1 ship has both, 1 ship from each race has the 1 reesist that suits it, making it all eventually balance out as not 1 ship is 100% more usefull than the other.
Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of themself without that law is both. |
Cpt Cosmic
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Posted - 2008.04.25 06:55:00 -
[186]
even with the web resistance they will be subpar to their cost. they will still need neut resistance added to their web resistance and a high sensor strengh to make their high cost worth it. you cant just slap a cap booster/ECCM on most cause of low amount of slots. a cruiser can most of the time which make them more neut/ECM safer, cruisers are cheaper and more effective too.
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Maraleith
Gallente
The Culture Holding Corporation
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Posted - 2008.04.25 09:57:00 -
[187]
My two cents worth.
Assault frigates should have the damage of a Tech One Cruiser with 66% of the speed and signature of an interceptor with limited tackle ability.
They are fast moving, tough, uber gank machines. A fleet of about 30 should have the dps to kill a carrier. If you want tackle, fly an interceptor.
Frigates are dangerous and annoying playtoys and cheap tackle, interceptors become the speedy elite tackle that is very hard to kill, assault frigates scare you silly with their gank power and their inherent strength.
Imagine the dps of a Rupture with a nice tank BUT due to slot arrangements they have say 1 mid slot. Note the AF skill has some onerous requirements so its not that unbalanced.
Bonuses can then extend to; damage, speed or tank.
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Deadeye Devie
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.04.25 12:25:00 -
[188]
Just 1 statement that i think needs to be thrown in here now, before we move on...
IF YOU WANT TO TACKLE, USE AN INTI...ASSULT SHIPS ARE FOR ASSULTING, AND THEREFOR ARE GANK AND TANK, NOT TACKLE!!!!!!
Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of themself without that law is both. |
Thirzarr
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Posted - 2008.04.25 14:08:00 -
[189]
Why not make them get some huge bonuses according to wing-size?
It would make AF's the backbone of any fast roaming gang.
Like:
10,20,...50% bonus to scan resolution for 1,2,...5 members in the gang.
10,20,...50% bonus to webbifier range and effectivenes for 1 through 5 members in the gang.
This would probably be sufficient to make "A Wing of AF's" something to consider tactically. |
Alex Medvedov
Minmatar
Soliders Of Eve
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Posted - 2008.04.25 15:56:00 -
[190]
Edited by: Alex Medvedov on 25/04/2008 15:58:02
Jeez guys get real - how many times have you seen gang formed from 5+ AFs - twice a year? AFs should be boosted by something what can be used all the time. Not with some cool barely usable so-called role.
The idea with race based ewar resistances is not bad but hard to balance. In my opinion it would mean deep change of each AF stats. I prefere more simple resolutions.
To Eleana:I disagree with giving one Af web resistance and other just tracking bonus - AF with web resistance would be always better so please give web resistance to each AF and differ them by something else..thanks:))
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Eleana Tomelac
Gallente
Through the Looking Glass
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Posted - 2008.04.25 16:20:00 -
[191]
Originally by: Alex Medvedov
To Eleana:I disagree with giving one Af web resistance and other just tracking bonus - AF with web resistance would be always better so please give web resistance to each AF and differ them by something else..thanks:))
I read you clearly.
Yeah, there's much cleaning and correcting to those AF stats in the first pages.
So, web resistance becomes either an AF role bonus or an AF skill bonus much like signature radius is an inty skill bonus.
What I'm thiking right now is :
-AF skill will give web resistance always
-Second bonus on AF skill will either be more firepower or more speed (on AB I mean - not to compete with inties). More speed for those with less lows and more meds, so they become web tacklers that go to very close range, and more firepower to those with the less meds and more lows. <= defining on slot is maybe not the best, I've not looked totally in this right now.
Then, as inties, you would get one tackling (but we know tackling inties are for warp disruptors, not webs) and one with more firepower and slower.
This works only with reduced mass on the AFs.
Just thought that I have in facts two AB bonuses, I would put the fixed AB mass penalty reduction as role and the AB speed boost bonus in the tackler AF bonus...
PS : I'll update stats later, there's a lot to review in them, really a lot, I'll maybe start back from SCRATCH with the stats to remove old stuff I made wrong.
PS2 : tell me what you think of the skill bonuses, maybe it's better in another way?
--
Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast !
Assault Frigates MK II |
Alekseyev Karrde
Noir.
Trinity Nova Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.25 18:21:00 -
[192]
Very interesting topic.. One of many comments: the two Minmatarr AF's should be differentiated alittle. Only one should have the sig bonus (which is scarily like an interceptor but it's minmatar so it makes sense), the other should get an additional damage bonus (even more minmatar).
Zombie Apocalypse Guitar-Wielding Superteam |
Alex Medvedov
Minmatar
Soliders Of Eve
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Posted - 2008.04.29 16:23:00 -
[193]
Guys in CCP, please if you do not have enough resoruces to implement web resistance for AFs yet, fine but do at least something to help them. Like reducing their overall mass - sooner the better:)) I cant see why my jag is unable to do 90 degrees turn under 10 seconds with AB on... which is obviously long enough for pilgrim which decloaked right under my tail to lock me:))Thank you VERY much...
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Chris Liath
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Posted - 2008.06.22 15:40:00 -
[194]
I couldn't agree more.
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Near Death
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.06.22 16:45:00 -
[195]
Just give me back my Ishkurs previous drone capacity.
When they nerfed the drones, they didn't realise that the Ishkur went pretty much useless. You could pack a punch with this little ship, but they instead chose to make it all Light Drones instead.
Mixing two Medium Drones with three Light Drones made the Ishkur quite deadly, and fulfilled it's role quite nicely. Ofcourse the DPS difference at the moment isn't much, but taking into consideration the different bonuses of the two kind of drones, it makes sense.
The AF themselves aren't bad. They just got hitted alongside all the other nerfs for the much bigger ships, and that's the issues we have to deal with now.
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Myrkala
Aurora Acclivitous
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Posted - 2008.06.23 01:30:00 -
[196]
Quote:
The New Wolf
Slots: 5/2/5 (+1 low)
Missiles: 1 (same)
Turrets: 5 (+1)
Drones: 0m3 (same)
Base speed: 265 (-30)
Needs more armor for better durability.
Mass: 1 531 250 kg (was 1 875 000)
Inertia modifier: 3.1 (+0)
Powergrid: 54 (+6)
CPU: 155 (+30)
Frigate Bonus: 5% bonus to Small Projectile Turret damage and 5% bonus to small projectile turret rate of fire per level
Assault Ships Bonus: 5% bonus to stasis webifier resistance per level and 5% to signature per level
Role bonus :
50% To afterburner thrust power, -500000kg to AB mass addition.
Evaluated speed with proper navigation skills : speed (speed with 3 overdrives and 2 polycarb)
AB : 1308m/s (2583)
Mwd : 1925m/s (3517)
When trying to fit, I noticed that it can be equally fitted in 200mm Ac or 250mm arties, well, falloff is always good for minmatar, arties have a huge falloff too.
I like it but dont nerf the speed so much! It's minmatar it should be the fastest and most agile of all AF's IMO.
+1 Turret YES
+30 CPU YES, not sure so much is needed though.
+Grid yes, not as important though
I would change the resist on the Wolf, they are just awful on armor.... Lower EM from 90% to 80% and boost the explosive and kinetic resistances. Why?
Because most viable fits today fit passive exp and kin energized plates to fill up the holes, but they are still very significant.
It also increases the viability of fitting an EANM and frees up space for something else more useful, like extra Gyro, Overdrive or nano
PS. only 2 mids is not a problem, mwd+point is all you need if you want to fly solo, you could fit a web if you have friends..
"Ruppie ain't no puppie." |
Alex Medvedov
Soliders Of Eve
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.23 11:20:00 -
[197]
Originally by: Near Death
Just give me back my Ishkurs previous drone capacity.
When they nerfed the drones, they didn't realise that the Ishkur went pretty much useless. You could pack a punch with this little ship, but they instead chose to make it all Light Drones instead.
That is absolutelly not true, Iskhur is not useless - its more in line with other AFs nowdays, which is good. Before Iskhur was no doubt king of the hill among other AFs, that was solved quite nicely.
Increasing its drone capacity again could be nice bonus but dont do it without boosting stats of the rest AFs
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Near Death
EBS9
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Posted - 2008.06.23 17:57:00 -
[198]
Originally by: Alex Medvedov
That is absolutely not true, Iskhur is not useless - its more in line with other AFs nowadays, which is good. Before Iskhur was no doubt king of the hill among other AFs, that was solved quite nicely.
Increasing its drone capacity again could be nice bonus but don't do it without boosting stats of the rest AFs
Of course it is not utterly and completely useless as a PvP ship. But it is far from how it used to be in the past. It is a mere shadow of itself. I can not use it in PvP without 100% knowing that I wont return in it.
Before all the nerfbats were swung throughout the EVE universe, a gang of Ishkurs was a force to be feared. I remember the Noskhurs as a powerful ship having fitted NOS in the high slots. It could take down a Cruiser, and even some poor fitted Battle Cruisers. That was how i pictured the Assault Frigate class, a ship that could take out the functions of the opponent, swiftly. Of course this particular fit is not something i miss. It was way overpowered and did deserve a nerf. But by all these nerfs that has been added through the years of EVE by CCP, the smaller ships have suffered tremendously. The only Frigate T2 sized ship class still worth anything is the Interceptors. Ant that is only because of the speed of this class.
What we really need is a T2 Frigate class ship that can counter the Interceptors, deal some heavy damage without being overpowered. The AFs roles right now is cannon fodder, if you are seen flying a AF you will be the laughing stock of the whole EVE community because you picked such a lame ship. In groups it works fine as the interceptor is usually present to tackle and hold down the opponent, then it fills the role of some extra DPS nicely.
But however you look at it Alex, the AFs, and particularly the Ishkur is nothing like it should be, or have been.
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