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Gridwalker
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.12.07 17:11:00 -
[1]
I work in the space industry, for companies that build real, honest to goodness spacecraft. When you're building satellites and other spacecraft, you only get one shot to get it right. Thousands of parts must work perfectly in an incredibly hostile environment, and hundreds of events must occur with a degree of precision that would blow your mind. Over the distances and speeds we are talking about, a mistake of just a few feet early on could mean thousands of miles later in the mission.
As you can imagine, these machines are tested to a level that is absolutely insane. Thousands of detailed simulations are run, and teams of hundreds of engineers and scientists spend years of their lives on just a single spacecraft. Still, we are only human after all, and things do sometimes go wrong. Often, it is the smallest and most goofy detail--the type of thing that you can't believe no one caught--that makes everything go crashing down.
Name: Genesis Mission: Orbit the Sun, gather solar particles, and return them safely to Earth. Cost: Approx $260 million
The Genesis spacecraft was nearly the end of its lengthy journey. A series of fragile, ultra pure sapphire, diamond, silicon and gold wafers had captured their particles, and the spaceship was about to enter the Earth's atmosphere. The goal was, let the atmosphere slow it down so it could deploy a parachute over the Utah desert. Since the payload was so fragile, a helicopter would catch it in mid air, and gently lower it to the ground.
Everything was perfect, and after a journey that took years and covered millions of miles, it re-entered spot on. Unfortunately, the parachute never opened and it left a nice, neat crater in the Utah desert. What went wrong? A $20 sensor, which was supposed trigger the parachute, was installed backwards.
Name: Mars Climate Observer Mission: Orbit Mars and gather data on the Martian climate and weather. Cost: Around $350 million
After a lengthy journey to Mars, the spacecraft was supposed to use Mars' atmosphere to slow it down. It would skim the atmosphere at just the right speed and angle, which would slow it enough so its thrusters could get it into orbit. Everything seemed to be going perfectly, and the thrusters were commanded to give a final firing to line it up just right. After skimming the atmosphere, it was supposed to send a signal saying all was well. Instead there was silence.
Unfortunately, it hit the atmosphere way harder than expected, and likely made a brilliant fireball if anyone was on Mars to watch. Why? The flight software was written by different teams. Part of it used metric units, and the other part used imperial (US) units. Years of testing and simulations somehow didn't uncover the problem.
The moral of the story? Even hundreds of rocket scientists spending years of their lives on a project, can manage to create a $250 million crater. Or put another way: No matter how much planning or testing you do, you still don't know how something is really going to work until you launch it and see!
Considering how smoothly the patch went in general--early uptime, servers the most stable I've seen after any patch, and only relatively minor issues--the boot.ini issue was the type of irony that I guess only someone who has worked in the space industry for as long as I have can truly appreciate!
All of that said, I know a lot of EVE players are professionals and have real jobs outside of mining veldspar in empire and running missions. It would be fun to hear some of YOUR horror stories of massive projects going radically wrong due to minor glitches or simple oversights. You know, the kind of thing you chuckle about later, wondering how in the world the problem managed to slip through.
Come on, let's hear them!
-Grid
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar Infinity Enterprises Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.12.07 17:15:00 -
[2]
FINALLY! someone that understands! Or should I say, someone that is not a hypocrite that tells that the company where he works never let any mistakes happen.
THAT is NORMAL GUYS!!! that is life! Be happy that was not an airplane computer bug that made it crash on your house.
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough |
Tarminic
Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand
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Posted - 2007.12.07 17:21:00 -
[3]
I fully support this thread. ---------------- Tarminic - 29 Million SP in pink Forum Warfare |
Alitha Maru
Minmatar Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering
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Posted - 2007.12.07 17:22:00 -
[4]
Yeah, I agree. People can f-up, although it was probably toughest on those that know little to nothing except turning on/off their computer and play EVE.
I don't want any compensation or items, heck I wasn't even affected since I run Vista. But for those who were, I suppose a formal apology from CCP on the boards would be greatly appreciated.
But, as sand and time goes. In a few months we'll not even remember it
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Alz Shado
Ever Flow DeStInY.
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Posted - 2007.12.07 17:25:00 -
[5]
NASA didn't hit anyone with that falling piece of space debris.
CCP's bug hit everyone.
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Typo91
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Posted - 2007.12.07 17:25:00 -
[6]
Yea i know what you mean!
I mean just look at how Bush got re-elected!
I bet the aliens have a pot going for what year we blow ourselves up.
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Kharadran Sullath
Caldari Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades
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Posted - 2007.12.07 17:30:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Alz Shado NASA didn't hit anyone with that falling piece of space debris.
CCP's bug hit everyone.
That was the worst analogy, ever. Are you actually trying to say what I think you are trying to say? That a loss of $250 million for nothing is even remotely comparable to losing your computers boot.ini file and that the latter is even worse?!? And for the record, the bug didn't hit everyone either. Far from actually. Can someone hand out some free reality checks? ------
Originally by: Graveyard Tan I call bull**** and troll. If you are deaf, how are you even able to read this or type replies?
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Tarminic
Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand
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Posted - 2007.12.07 17:32:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Alz Shado NASA didn't hit anyone with that falling piece of space debris.
CCP's bug hit everyone.
If by "everyone" you mean about ten percent of EVE users. I don't think the total costs, assuming that everyone affected (20K users) had to replace their computers ($2000) exceeds the 360 million dollar price tag that NASA paid. Your argument fails. ---------------- Tarminic - 29 Million SP in pink Forum Warfare |
Nicho Void
Hyper-Nova Tenth Legion
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Posted - 2007.12.07 17:32:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Alz Shado NASA didn't hit anyone with that falling piece of space debris.
CCP's bug hit everyone.
Originally by: Typo91 Yea i know what you mean!
I mean just look at how Bush got re-elected!
I bet the aliens have a pot going for what year we blow ourselves up.
Is it possible to split an idiot award two ways?
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Swift Wind
6rasshopper Inc.
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Posted - 2007.12.07 17:32:00 -
[10]
2 days ago, I had a web server drop moments before a huge product launch....
Then I saw the .ini disaster... I felt bad for CCP, I thought I had a bad day...
As someone who works day in and day out, for almost 25 years now, with technology, I seem to be the only one I know who understands how complex this stuff really is. The "dumbing down" of the user interface over the years has created operators that have no idea how frgile the technology there using really is. anyhoo, Hang in there CCP, I'm still impressed (and yes the .ini issue hit my XP DT) and most like will be addicted to this game as long as you make it (although I might cancel now and the out of protest!).
Anywhere, Anytime. |
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Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2007.12.07 17:35:00 -
[11]
OP wins this entire ... whatever this is -
I wish I was a three foot female doll with a watering can and heterochromatic eyes. |
Snake Jankins
Minmatar German Cyberdome Corp Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.12.07 17:36:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Snake Jankins on 07/12/2007 17:36:51 Yes, just reminded me of other desastrous bugs like losing a space mission due to mixing up pound force and newton in the software system. Total project cost over 300 mil dollars.
First I thought the loss of an Ariane V prototype happened to that, but just looked it up, but that was caused to another bug. (Reusing incompatible code from the Ariane IV)
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_bug under famous computer bugs for a list of major 'fails' ___________ I've never been so serious as I am now. No, really. |
WashuChanUK
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Posted - 2007.12.07 17:36:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Swift Wind 2 days ago, I had a web server drop moments before a huge product launch....
Then I saw the .ini disaster... I felt bad for CCP, I thought I had a bad day...
As someone who works day in and day out, for almost 25 years now, with technology, I seem to be the only one I know who understands how complex this stuff really is. The "dumbing down" of the user interface over the years has created operators that have no idea how frgile the technology there using really is. anyhoo, Hang in there CCP, I'm still impressed (and yes the .ini issue hit my XP DT) and most like will be addicted to this game as long as you make it (although I might cancel now and the out of protest!).
Indeed I work in the IT industry and know how simple things can go wrong, so lambasting CCP for an error made in mistake by a human isnt fair guys. They made a mistake, they are VERY sorry for the mistake and infact they've constantly flashed up warnings to players not to restart if they patched at a certain time. They could of just denied it all and said it was because of MS, no they hold their own hands up and admit fault. Takes bigger balls to admit your wrong then not to.
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Bish Ounen
Gallente Omni-Core Freedom Fighters
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Posted - 2007.12.07 17:45:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Nicho Void
Originally by: Alz Shado NASA didn't hit anyone with that falling piece of space debris.
CCP's bug hit everyone.
Originally by: Typo91 Yea i know what you mean!
I mean just look at how Bush got re-elected!
I bet the aliens have a pot going for what year we blow ourselves up.
Is it possible to split an idiot award two ways?
Hee hee. I thhink we can work it out. Apparetly Typo91 seems to be confusing the EVE-O boards with DailyKOS. Although, with all the nuttiness that goes on in COAD on a daily basis I can see how he might make that mistake.
To the thread OP, Hear hear! Well said Sir! It was about time someone hit the eve-o boards upside the head with the perspective stick, and you did it with style.
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Frogzuk
Dragonian Freelancers KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.07 17:46:00 -
[15]
i have a story regarding a certain farm animal, and a particular government deaprtment.... basically cutting a very long and sensitive story short, these animals were required for vaccine prodcution to prevent a some wot nasty condition in this particular aniaml. As the country was not free from that particular nasty bug the department had to go abroad to a place where it was free from the said bug.
happens to be otherside of the world, said animals bought, everyone congrtulated everyone on a job well done.... animal arrive to establishment that was going to make vaccine.. and yes.... after spending a few millions in buying, transporting and accommodating the animal in question ... the lead sciencist first words were.... "these are the wrong breed !"
DGF website killboard |
Myth Al'kar
Blueprint Haus Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.07 17:49:00 -
[16]
A very well written OP. Was like reading a good magazine article.
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Vicarrah
Minmatar Hand Of The Tahiri Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.12.07 17:51:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Vicarrah on 07/12/2007 17:51:47 its funny watching the drama queens go mental, but I know what it's like on both sides of the story. when I first started my current job, I was "tidying up" after building some code and typed "deltree -y /s" thinking I was in the source code temp directory, when I was in root.... OMG there goes the main dev PC.
I've also done similar things to CCP with my own installation programs, way back when we were all using .bat files to xcopy files around, suffice it to say the users were not happy.
stuff happens, you can never stop it, just try and learn from it.
Vicarrah Tahiri Matriarch |
trulon
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Posted - 2007.12.07 17:54:00 -
[18]
op won
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Andargor theWise
Collateral Damage Unlimited Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.12.07 17:54:00 -
[19]
As long as CCP keeps launching rockets, I don't mind seeing the occasional one blow up.
- Stop the Feature Glut: Take the API to the Next Level
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Kordesh
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.12.07 17:55:00 -
[20]
Logged in at work to approve. Finally someone who understands. ------------------------------------------- "What's it like being a turtle?" "It's a lot like being a walking house that eats lettuce." (Hurray temp sig!) |
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ReaperOfSly
Gallente Lyrus Associates Enuma Elish.
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Posted - 2007.12.07 17:56:00 -
[21]
It is a good thing to make fun out of CCP for for a while though isn't it --------------------------------------------------------------------
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Condecinte
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Posted - 2007.12.07 17:57:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Alz Shado NASA didn't hit anyone with that falling piece of space debris.
CCP's bug hit everyone.
Poor idiot you must be traumatized. There there.
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Gamer4liff
Caldari Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY
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Posted - 2007.12.07 17:59:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Gamer4liff on 07/12/2007 18:00:58 The difference being that CCP was warned well in advance of the catastrophe, and ignored all warnings. This happened to me days before the patch hit tranq, by patching singularity. it had to have happened to other people. But from what I heard they ignored all the warnings.
So it's a lot like challenger in that respect.
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Tarminic
Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand
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Posted - 2007.12.07 18:02:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Gamer4liff
The difference being that CCP was warned well in advance of the catastrophe, and ignored all warnings. This happened to me days before the patch hit tranq on singularity, it had to have happened to other people. But from what I heard they ignored all the warnings.
So this happened to you and you didn't file a bug report about this issue? The only other "warning" that I saw was a single forum post, in the wrong thread in the wrong forum (one that was not being visited by the QA team at the time).
They didn't ignore anything, they didn't know, partially do to your lack of interest in filing a bug report. ---------------- Tarminic - 29 Million SP in pink Forum Warfare |
Oregon sinful
The Ankou The Reckoning.
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Posted - 2007.12.07 18:03:00 -
[25]
Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
POST WITH YOUR MAIN OR STFU |
Gamer4liff
Caldari Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY
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Posted - 2007.12.07 18:04:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Gamer4liff on 07/12/2007 18:04:57
Originally by: Tarminic
Originally by: Gamer4liff
The difference being that CCP was warned well in advance of the catastrophe, and ignored all warnings. This happened to me days before the patch hit tranq on singularity, it had to have happened to other people. But from what I heard they ignored all the warnings.
So this happened to you and you didn't file a bug report about this issue? The only other "warning" that I saw was a single forum post, in the wrong thread in the wrong forum (one that was not being visited by the QA team at the time).
They didn't ignore anything, they didn't know, partially do to your lack of interest in filing a bug report.
How was I to know Eve was the cause of it? All I saw was my laptop not booting, I didn't even connect it to eve at the time. Regardless such a glaring error like this should have been picked up by QA. And I'm sure plenty of people filed bug reports.
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Nicoli Voldkif
Caelli-Merced INC. Gunboat Diplomacy
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Posted - 2007.12.07 18:07:00 -
[27]
Lets see.. Dumb things that I've done as a gunsmith/armorer
Forgot to make a firing pin Forgot to affix the barrel to the receiver Used the wrong Bolt with the rifle destroying both bolt and barrel Misplaced a decimal on a powder load and blew up a $20k rifle
I think if I added up all the stupid little mistakes I've done during my career (thankfully I'm my own boss) its got to be in the 6 digits at least. Thank god for insurance!
-----------------------------------------------
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LaVista Vista
Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz
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Posted - 2007.12.07 18:09:00 -
[28]
Very awesome post good sir. Can i have your babies?
Im also trying to tell people its not CCP's fault the mistake they made was so fatal. Fine, CCP made a mistake. Everybody make mistakes as you point out. But the operative system should catch such mistakes. Vista will do this, for instance.
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Kharadran Sullath
Caldari Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades
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Posted - 2007.12.07 18:12:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Gamer4liff Edited by: Gamer4liff on 07/12/2007 18:00:58 The difference being that CCP was warned well in advance of the catastrophe, and ignored all warnings. This happened to me days before the patch hit tranq, by patching singularity. it had to have happened to other people. But from what I heard they ignored all the warnings.
So it's a lot like challenger in that respect.
From what I understand, no bug report was made. And tbfh, they wouldn't have ignored a bug report that serious. ------
Originally by: Graveyard Tan I call bull**** and troll. If you are deaf, how are you even able to read this or type replies?
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Gamer4liff
Caldari Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY
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Posted - 2007.12.07 18:14:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Kharadran Sullath
Originally by: Gamer4liff Edited by: Gamer4liff on 07/12/2007 18:00:58 The difference being that CCP was warned well in advance of the catastrophe, and ignored all warnings. This happened to me days before the patch hit tranq, by patching singularity. it had to have happened to other people. But from what I heard they ignored all the warnings.
So it's a lot like challenger in that respect.
From what I understand, no bug report was made. And tbfh, they wouldn't have ignored a bug report that serious.
Yes they would, they'd attribute it to something else and write it off as the fault of the end user. To think that they'd be responsible for something so destructive would be incomprehensible to them, prior to the disaster of course.
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