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Should Low-Sec local show players in system?

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Woolygimp Caldari HeartVenom Inc. Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.12.07 19:55:00 - [1] I've never seen this discussed before, but I find it kind of odd that you can tell who is in the system and basically size up the enemy with flawless intelligence by glancing at the local channel. It removes a lot of the 'if'. I can't see any point for local to show who is in the system for low-sec and 0.0 systems, and this has given rise to so many intelligence channels. For instance last night, "enemy gang otw, 8 jumps out." What the hell? Anyway, sorry if this has been discussed to death before but I'd like to hear the arguments.
Kazuma Saruwatari	Posted - 2007.12.07 19:56:00 - [2] Unless there's another way to provide intelligence to replace Local's person's list, local stays unchanged. - Odd Pod Out, a blog of EVE Online
Corwain Gallente Down In Flames	Posted - 2007.12.07 19:57:00 - [3] Local should go. --
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.12.07 19:57:00 - [4] 10/10 for not being about the patch If local was removed it would need to be replaced with an equivalent system, otherwise 0.0 people would never even realize there were other people there. - I wish I was a three foot female doll with a watering can and heterochromatic eyes.
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2007.12.07 19:58:00 - [5] It has been discussed pretty thoroughly actually (EVE Search is your friend), but yeah...I'm actually in favor of a "delayed local" depending on security status, something like: 0.4 - Thirty seconds to appear in local 0.3 - Fourty 0.2 - Fifty 0.1 - One Minute 0.0 - Two Minutes Also, before the people claim that I just want easy ganks, I'm in an anti-pirate corp that operates in low-sec. ---------------- Tarminic - 29 Million SP in ~~pink~~ Forum Warfare
Woolygimp Caldari HeartVenom Inc. Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.12.07 19:59:00 - [6] Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari Unless there's another way to provide intelligence to replace Local's person's list, local stays unchanged. How about guards/scouts on the gates?
Woolygimp Caldari HeartVenom Inc. Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.12.07 20:02:00 - [7] It's just that this game isn't nearly as hardcore as advertised. Imagine in UO where a big alarm would go off, "PK ALERT, PK IN YOUR VICINITY RECALL OUT." That just doesn't make sense, also being able to deduce the size of an enemy fleet by subtracting your fleet size by the amount of people in local is just a total copout.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.12.07 20:03:00 - [8] Originally by: Woolygimp Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari Unless there's another way to provide intelligence to replace Local's person's list, local stays unchanged. How about guards/scouts on the gates? Are you volunteering for the job? - I wish I was a three foot female doll with a watering can and heterochromatic eyes.
Wild Rho Amarr GoonFleet	Posted - 2007.12.07 20:04:00 - [9] Low sec should still have local like high sec, however 0.0 shouldn't (I'd give my reasons but I've posted them in other threads like this so many times I can't be bothered to repeat them again).
Ivor Gunn No One Expects The Spanish Inquisition	Posted - 2007.12.07 20:05:00 - [10] Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: Woolygimp Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari Unless there's another way to provide intelligence to replace Local's person's list, local stays unchanged. How about guards/scouts on the gates? Are you volunteering for the job? He's in KoS. They don't need volunteers, they're paid to play this game .
Woolygimp Caldari HeartVenom Inc. Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.12.07 20:06:00 - [11] Originally by: Ivor Gunn Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: Woolygimp Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari Unless there's another way to provide intelligence to replace Local's person's list, local stays unchanged. How about guards/scouts on the gates? Are you volunteering for the job? He's in KoS. They don't need volunteers, they're paid to play this game . An alliance should work together, if they can't find someone to watch the gates and guard their territory than that's their problem as a group of people.
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2007.12.07 20:07:00 - [12] Originally by: Woolygimp Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari Unless there's another way to provide intelligence to replace Local's person's list, local stays unchanged. How about guards/scouts on the gates? My corp guards things pretty well, we like to think. ---------------- Tarminic - 29 Million SP in ~~pink~~ Forum Warfare
Drake Morgans	Posted - 2007.12.07 20:08:00 - [13] What if you only appeared on local if you spoke? Hence the need to keep radio silence if you're engaging in warfare or a skirmish. Basically that comes down to the same thing as removing local, but it still keeps the option for people to be able to chat and if someone is dumb enough to speak in local during an op (which you know will happen).
Kazuma Saruwatari	Posted - 2007.12.07 20:09:00 - [14] Originally by: Woolygimp An alliance should work together, if they can't find someone to watch the gates and guard their territory than that's their problem as a group of people. So you're saying that if people dont spend as much time as the more-hardcore enemy alliance in guarding entry gates and systems, they're supposed to lose it? Mind you, some people have LIVES outside EVE. What you're asking is just too extreme to even consider. Trust me, if they remove local and not replace it, tons of people will leave 0.0/lowsec, and maybe even not log in at all because of the fear. - Odd Pod Out, a blog of EVE Online
Woolygimp Caldari HeartVenom Inc. Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.12.07 20:15:00 - [15] Edited by: Woolygimp on 07/12/2007 20:16:24 Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari Originally by: Woolygimp An alliance should work together, if they can't find someone to watch the gates and guard their territory than that's their problem as a group of people. So you're saying that if people dont spend as much time as the more-hardcore enemy alliance in guarding entry gates and systems, they're supposed to lose it? Mind you, some people have LIVES outside EVE. What you're asking is just too extreme to even consider. Trust me, if they remove local and not replace it, tons of people will leave 0.0/lowsec, and maybe even not log in at all because of the fear. Before I started playing Eve, people always told me how 'hardcore' it was. This ** isn't hardcore, it's ***** pansy ass. People are stupid, a red shows up in local and everyone immediately docks or logs off. Local is why 0.0 is broken, and why people are bringing Blob gangs. We have 50, and they have 65? Ok, we need 25 more. So forth. 0.0 should be dangerous, and should require teamwork and skill to survive. At the moment, it's about as carebear as Empire.
Kazuma Saruwatari	Posted - 2007.12.07 20:19:00 - [16] Let me repeat myself. Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari Mind you, some people have LIVES outside EVE. What you're asking is just too extreme to even consider. Not everyone is willing to sit hours upon boring-as-frack hours on gates to guard their space. Oh, this goes doubly against smaller alliances who dont have the numbers during off-peak to cover their turf. Again, what you're stating is is that people should now force themselves on guard duty. How the bleedin frack is that any fun?? - Odd Pod Out, a blog of EVE Online
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.12.07 20:21:00 - [17] Originally by: Woolygimp Before I started playing Eve, people always told me how 'hardcore' it was. This ** isn't hardcore, it's ***** pansy ass. People are stupid, a red shows up in local and everyone immediately docks or logs off. Local is why 0.0 is broken, and why people are bringing Blob gangs. We have 50, and they have 65? Ok, we need 25 more. So forth. 0.0 should be dangerous, and should require teamwork and skill to survive. At the moment, it's about as carebear as Empire. So you say 0.0 is carebear, and then ask that the only practical way an attacker has of finding targets is removed, so that any group can use intel from static scouts to hide in advance and not only not have to fight, but not even be discovered by the enemy. Interesting... - I wish I was a three foot female doll with a watering can and heterochromatic eyes.
Nur Vadenn Amarr	Posted - 2007.12.07 20:23:00 - [18] Hmm... no local chat eh? Interesting if frequently brought up idea... Tell you what. Include in my state-of-the-art space faring vessel an active sensor system that shows me a live feed of activity within 14 AU of the ship, and make it so it can differentiate active ships and unoccupied ships while scanning. Then we can discuss it. As it stands now the system scanner is far too primitive to serve as an accurate information tool. If you remove local now without any replacement for the flow of information and all you'll succeed in doing is making that lonely patch of low-sec/0.0 even lonelier. Oh and CCP will take a painful hit in their bottom line. And of course if EVE is simply not hard core enough for you I'm sure there are other games that might be more to your liking. Just remember... your stuffs, I will find them useful if you let me have them.
Dirk Magnum FinFleet Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.12.07 20:24:00 - [19] Blocking anyone's ability to see local outside of like sovereign 3/4 systems will result in an appalling loss to the PvP community. Why spend precious minutes scanning a system that might be empty but might have 100 people, either way it's not a system you'd normally PvP in if you saw those numbers in local. PvP is about being able to pick your fights as best as possible based on the intel you've got. Killing local makes PvP random encounter-based.
Woolygimp Caldari HeartVenom Inc. Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.12.07 20:24:00 - [20] Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: Woolygimp Before I started playing Eve, people always told me how 'hardcore' it was. This ** isn't hardcore, it's ***** pansy ass. People are stupid, a red shows up in local and everyone immediately docks or logs off. Local is why 0.0 is broken, and why people are bringing Blob gangs. We have 50, and they have 65? Ok, we need 25 more. So forth. 0.0 should be dangerous, and should require teamwork and skill to survive. At the moment, it's about as carebear as Empire. So you say 0.0 is carebear, and then ask that the only practical way an attacker has of finding targets is removed, so that any group can use intel from static scouts to hide in advance and not only not have to fight, but not even be discovered by the enemy. Interesting... How would these people know when to 'un-hide?' They'd actually have to defend their territory, rather than just jump in a POS everytime a hostile jumps into the system. Not only then, the fights would be better since you wouldn't know the exact number of hostile ships, which is I think disastrous to the game. That kind of information ruins the game, who would participate in a fight with a inferior number of ships. If you want to know how many people you're up against, you should use spies and covert ops, and what not. Not have it given to you on a silver platter.
SiJira	Posted - 2007.12.07 20:57:00 - [21] Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari Unless there's another way to provide intelligence to replace Local's person's list, local stays unchanged. there is a way for sovereignty holders to have local like it is now while leaving 0.0 completely black and unknown while lowsec only shows numbers after a 5 minute delay ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn [yellow]Kaem
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.12.07 21:01:00 - [22] Originally by: Woolygimp who would participate in a fight with a inferior number of ships. Who would participate in a fight with an unknown number of enemies? - I wish I was a three foot female doll with a watering can and heterochromatic eyes.
Demarcus Killjoy.	Posted - 2007.12.07 21:03:00 - [23] Originally by: Crumplecorn 10/10 for not being about the patch If local was removed it would need to be replaced with an equivalent system, otherwise 0.0 people would never even realize there were other people there. You mean it would be realistic, oh nos, we can't have that. Isn't finding if people are around what your scanner is for? ------------------------------------- You are all worthless, and weak.
Demarcus Killjoy.	Posted - 2007.12.07 21:04:00 - [24] Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: Woolygimp who would participate in a fight with a inferior number of ships. Who would participate in a fight with an unknown number of enemies? Um, use scouts in coverts? ------------------------------------- You are all worthless, and weak.

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