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Materials research.

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Iria Ahrens Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2007.12.09 18:47:00 - [1] What is up with this? I'm finding queue lines blocked off for over 60 days. The places I find that are as low as 13 days are off in low sec. I just started getting into manufacturing and it looks like this part of the game is completely saturated. I'm seeing all of these other gameplay enhancements to make the game more newbie friendly, what about the manufacturing aspect? Is something going to be done in the near or intermediate future? I mean, sure I can queue a blueprint somewhere for a month before I can get my 3 hour run. But in the meantime that blueprint is unusable. Are people just getting a second blueprint to use in the meantime? I'm trying to get what gives with this, but it looks like, basically, if you want to get into manufacturing, you need to go pvp and get into a pos, which again, isn't very newbie friendly.
Francin Ikis	Posted - 2007.12.09 19:12:00 - [2] All hi sec slots are full... then go to low sec with new warp to zero km it should not be that much problem. Just use fast ship like shuttle (it warps before leaves gate cloak compleatly) and don't use autopilot. another thing... if you queue up than be man about it (not 3h) use 100 material research or as much as it gives you, stay busy in hi space untill it is done and then colect it
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2007.12.09 19:36:00 - [3] Manufacturing (profitably) is not in any way newbie friendly. To do so profitably requires skills and a good deal of time and generally the effort of a group of people to do well. You can anchor a POS in hi sec by the way (with approriate standings) and put up your own research slots.
Iria Ahrens Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2007.12.09 20:24:00 - [4] Edited by: Iria Ahrens on 09/12/2007 20:26:31 Originally by: Francin Ikis All hi sec slots are full... then go to low sec with new warp to zero km it should not be that much problem. Just use fast ship like shuttle (it warps before leaves gate cloak compleatly) and don't use autopilot. another thing... if you queue up than be man about it (not 3h) use 100 material research or as much as it gives you, stay busy in hi space untill it is done and then colect it I don't understand what you mean here. Remember I'm a manufacturing newbie. From my understanding of the Material research and how it works. I have a blueprint for Expanded Cargo hold. It says 3 hours on it. So I put it up for materials research. I have to wait 15 days for my turn, then it does its 3 hour thing. Then I get a modified blueprint, which I can then put in the queue after another 15 day wait, then it takes 6 hours. Then after after my 15 days and 6 hours, I can put in the queue again, wash repeat. So I see a contract for a materials 25 blueprint. That would take me 25x15 days or 1 year just waiting in the queue plus the increasing amounts of actual research applied.
Jade Vendetta Gallente Ne Plus Ultra	Posted - 2007.12.09 21:02:00 - [5] Edited by: Jade Vendetta on 09/12/2007 21:03:48 Originally by: Iria Ahrens Edited by: Iria Ahrens on 09/12/2007 20:26:31 Originally by: Francin Ikis All hi sec slots are full... then go to low sec with new warp to zero km it should not be that much problem. Just use fast ship like shuttle (it warps before leaves gate cloak compleatly) and don't use autopilot. another thing... if you queue up than be man about it (not 3h) use 100 material research or as much as it gives you, stay busy in hi space untill it is done and then colect it I don't understand what you mean here. Remember I'm a manufacturing newbie. From my understanding of the Material research and how it works. I have a blueprint for Expanded Cargo hold. It says 3 hours on it. So I put it up for materials research. I have to wait 15 days for my turn, then it does its 3 hour thing. Then I get a modified blueprint, which I can then put in the queue after another 15 day wait, then it takes 6 hours. Then after after my 15 days and 6 hours, I can put in the queue again, wash repeat. So I see a contract for a materials 25 blueprint. That would take me 25x15 days or 1 year just waiting in the queue plus the increasing amounts of actual research applied. When you put in the BPO for ME research in the queue, you select the number of ME levels you want to add to it. So if you need 20 levels of ME done, you just enter it into the queue with +20 ME levels and after the queue wait and the research time, your BPO will have an ME level of 20. As for the Expanded Cargohold I BPO, the optimum ME level is 1, at which level you will save a total of 1 unit of Isogen (for a total savings of app. 64 ISK). This means that taking the ME level of the BPO to higher than 1 will result in no further minerals savings. Additionally, all ME/PE research done on the BPO is done directly to the BPO, and does not create additional BPOS. You can however copy the BPO to make BPCs in copy facilities.
Gaius Sejanus Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.12.09 21:18:00 - [6] All you have to do is look around a bit. I just found a station in highsec with multiple slots that were at 15 days or less for the queue on ME research. The hourly rate was cheap too (like 190 isk).
Iria Ahrens Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2007.12.09 21:21:00 - [7] Originally by: Gaius Sejanus All you have to do is look around a bit. I just found a station in highsec with multiple slots that were at 15 days or less for the queue on ME research. The hourly rate was cheap too (like 190 isk). I did mention in my OP that I found places with a 13 day wait in the queue. So Yes I did look around, better than you apparently. 13 days is still not a newbie friendly period of time to wait.
JannelleSilver	Posted - 2007.12.10 00:41:00 - [8] Watch the prices on where you're doing your ME research. They vary from 11,540.00 isk/hr to 8.33 isk/hr in Lonetrek atm. If your long term goal is to make money, then you don't want to waste money by paying too much to do ME/PE research.
Iria Ahrens Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2007.12.10 00:59:00 - [9] Originally by: JannelleSilver Watch the prices on where you're doing your ME research. They vary from 11,540.00 isk/hr to 8.33 isk/hr in Lonetrek atm. If your long term goal is to make money, then you don't want to waste money by paying too much to do ME/PE research. Thank you. It would have never occured to me that different places charge different rates. I was thinking it was like NPC skillbook prices.
Gaius Sejanus Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.12.10 03:09:00 - [10] If you're going to be a whiny little jerk, better get your facts straight: Quote: I did mention in my OP that I found places with a 13 day wait in the queue. So Yes I did look around, better than you apparently. Except I found mine in highsec, not lowsec, which you managed to miss in your overeager rush to try and insult me. Self ownage is the best kind of ownage. Quote: 13 days is still not a newbie friendly period of time to wait. Who said it was supposed to be newbie friendly?

Iria Ahrens Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2007.12.10 08:44:00 - [11] Edited by: Iria Ahrens on 10/12/2007 08:45:31 Originally by: Gaius Sejanus If you're going to be a whiny little jerk, better get your facts straight: Read and stop the name calling. and get your own facts straight. I'm not whining, just pointing out an inconsistency. You're the one whining because you got called out and you know you're in the wrong. I guess it might be a little embarrassing for you. So you start name calling to draw attention away from your mistake. Quote: Except I found mine in highsec, not lowsec, which you managed to miss in your overeager rush to try and insult me. And what about a post saying the lowest queue was a 13 day queue in lowsec, excludes a 15 day queue in highsec? Nothing. For the second time, you point out a perceived fault in my post that really does nothing but display your own lack of critical reading skills and willingness to snap to a judgment based on your own erroneous assumptions. You are the one that accused me of not looking around, "All you have to do is look around a bit. " so don't act all offended when you're the one denigrating other people's efforts. Quote: Self ownage is the best kind of ownage. In your own words... Quote: 13 days is still not a newbie friendly period of time to wait. Who said it was supposed to be newbie friendly? Who said it wasn't. Haven't you noticed how the game is constantly becoming progressively more newbie friendly with better tutorials and the whole new character creation system that was altered a while back. If you pay attention to that character creation process, you will see that there is even a place for newbies to select industrialists. So of course a new player would not expect to have a basic job function denied, or extremely difficult to achieve from the outset. Research is a basic job skill, so, in theory, the means for applying and utilizing this basic skill should be readily available. All of the basic aspects of a job should be relatively newbie friendly based on CCPs apparent intention in pretty much every other area of the game.
Oriella Trikassi Trikassi Enterprises	Posted - 2007.12.10 10:48:00 - [12] Yes, there are queues for Research slots at NPC stations. The solution to this was not to create more slots but to allow POS (player owned stations) in Empire space to build and operate Research Labs at advantageous prices. A number of player Corps do so, renting out their facilities for immediate use. --- Trikassi Enterprises, oiling the jumpgates of commerce without microbidding.
Space Wanderer	Posted - 2007.12.10 11:29:00 - [13] Originally by: Iria Ahrens From my understanding of the Material research and how it works. I have a blueprint for Expanded Cargo hold. It says 3 hours on it. So I put it up for materials research. I have to wait 15 days for my turn, then it does its 3 hour thing. Then I get a modified blueprint, which I can then put in the queue after another 15 day wait, then it takes 6 hours. Then after after my 15 days and 6 hours, I can put in the queue again, wash repeat. So I see a contract for a materials 25 blueprint. That would take me 25x15 days or 1 year just waiting in the queue plus the increasing amounts of actual research applied. Woha, if I understand correctly what you said, you don't seem to have very clear ideas on how material research works. Let's start from the basics: once you submit a blueprint for material level research you are not forced to research only one material level at a time. You might have to wait 15 days, but after those 15 days you can research 100 material levels all together (provided they do not require more than 30 days to research). You do not need to queue the BPO again for each single material level (except for BPOs with VERY long research times). Also, you might want to train the laboratory operation and advanced laboratory operation skills, which allow you to research several BPOs at the same time.
Daeva Vios PhaseShifter Technologies	Posted - 2007.12.10 14:58:00 - [14] Ok, you need to check your attitude here. You came for help, and you (yes, you) insulted someone who was attempting to help you. That's bad form and will get you ignored at best. Be careful with that. This is a relatively small community and after a while you begin to know the folks who hang around. If you step on too many toes, the help you receive may begin to get malicious and not very helpful, if you get my meaning. You came to us for help, not the other way around. Save the attitude for when you're big and bad enough that you can afford to make people angry. That out of the way... most folks here have answered you pretty well. A couple other things I might add: Players who own a POS with research slots often times are willing to rent out slots, or may even be willing to hire you on so you have access. Ask around, check the Market Discussions forum and Stations, Starbases, and Outposts forum and you'll find folks who will be glad to sell you research services. Check the recruitment forum and ask around in Recruitment channel for a corporation that has a research POS set up to see if they'd be willing to hire you. Most times, renting POS research slots is far less expensive, in terms of hours (and thus isk), than waiting 10+ days for an empire research slot to open. Another thing is that, if they did add more research slots, they would just be filled immediately to the same level the rest are. More research slots available would mean more people putting more blueprints up to research. It happened last time they did it, and it would happen again. Adding lanes to an existing highway only makes more lanes to be filled with unmoving cars during rush hour. There are ways around the problems you face. A resourceful individual will find these ways and thrive. Only resourceful individuals succeed at the market game, which is what you're getting into. Ideally, you would not be going down this path as a raw newbie, because you simply do not know enough to make it truly work for you. I don't really believe that word of warning will deter you, though, so I'll leave you with a last bit of advice: Train skills high, learn to use the market history window, and step lightly. You're a very small fish in an extremely large pond. Good luck.


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