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Best Heavy Launcher DPS ship?

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Pithecanthropus	Posted - 2007.12.10 17:19:00 - [1] So what ship puts out the most DPS that is a heavy missile ship? Cerb? Drake? Nighthawk? Sacrilege? Other?
Erotic Irony 0bsession	Posted - 2007.12.10 17:22:00 - [2] I'm going to cast my vote for the sac. Survey says... ___ Eve Players are not very smart. Support Killmail Overhaul
Dober	Posted - 2007.12.10 17:25:00 - [3] nighthawk
MalVortex	Posted - 2007.12.10 17:41:00 - [4] In Descending Order: Nighthawk Drake Cerberus Sacrilege (damage bonus applies only to HAMS)
Last Wolf Templars of Space	Posted - 2007.12.10 17:43:00 - [5] Originally by: MalVortex In Descending Order: Nighthawk - Can also do more damage vs smaller targerts with heavies Drake - Its a drake. Cerberus - can spew HM out to ~150km. 250km with rigs. Sacrilege (damage bonus applies only to HAMS)
Pithecanthropus	Posted - 2007.12.10 18:17:00 - [6] So even tho a Drake has 7 launchers and an extra rig slot, a Nighthawk will still out dps it?
Biced	Posted - 2007.12.10 18:29:00 - [7] Originally by: Pithecanthropus So even tho a Drake has 7 launchers and an extra rig slot, a Nighthawk will still out dps it? look at the ship bonuses. And another rig slot does not help you for more dps the rof and damage rigs take 200cal each.
Ademaro Imre Caldari Eye of God	Posted - 2007.12.10 18:31:00 - [8] Originally by: Pithecanthropus So even tho a Drake has 7 launchers and an extra rig slot, a Nighthawk will still out dps it? Yes, the Nighthawk has a 25% rof bonus, and a 25% bonus to heavy missile precision.
Verlaine Glariant Knights of the Flame Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.12.10 18:56:00 - [9] Nighthawk for sure. Verlaine Glariant. Tactical Weapons Specialist.
OOOSOOO Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.12.10 19:13:00 - [10] Edited by: OOOSOOO on 10/12/2007 19:14:37 lawlz Cerberus High: 5 x HAM II w/ DG terror Assaults Mid: Don't care Low: 4 x Estamel's BCU Rigs: Bay Loading Acc II Implants: Best damage + rof Skills: All level V DPS: 728 @ 30.4km price: Doesn't matter Similar setup for the Sacrilege yields 742 dps @ 20km. Similar setup for the Nighthawk yields 891 dps @ 20km. Disclaimer: EFT was not harmed in the making of this thread. hiccup*
Derrys Caldari Caldari Independent Navy Reserve	Posted - 2007.12.10 19:38:00 - [11] The Nighthawk will win in raw DPS. However, I think the Cerberus will come in second in most real-world situations. It has fewer launchers than the Drake, but it also has a ROF bonus that nearly evens things out. Plus it's common for a Cerberus to fit three BCS, while Drakes, in my experience, normally fit two or less. That'll tip the scales in favor of the Cerberus.
OOOSOOO Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.12.10 19:43:00 - [12] Italic hiccup
Pithecanthropus	Posted - 2007.12.10 20:36:00 - [13] Much appreciation.
AnKahn Caldari Repo Industries	Posted - 2007.12.11 15:04:00 - [14] Do the Cerb, NH, and Drake have similar DPS? For me, a Drake and Raven "specialist", if I want tank and less stress on ops I fly a Drake, if I want gank I fly the Raven. At some point in my skill training (after I level up my drone skills, Ewar and webbers and such) I will start to look at the tech II ships. Why fly the Cerb or the NH ? Are you able to out damage a Raven? Out tank (significantly) a Drake? Do both at the same time? Tackle? Nano? The question is would it be better to spend time cross training Gallente or Minnie rather than go for tech II Caldari? Would something like the Brutix be more fun? Losing a Drake costs, after insurance, maybe 10 mil. Losing a tech II ship I'm sure costs 100 mil. I was just wondering.
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2007.12.11 15:33:00 - [15] I'd have to say that the Nighthawk in the real world can probably put out more DPS than the drake because of the above mentioned factors. Of course the drake is an odd duck in that for its most common tank setup (the much maligned passive tank) it generally sacrifices almost all of it's extra damage mods. Course, if you use Core Defense Purger rigs, you can sacrifice two of the low slot shield regen mods for BCS's, but you DO lose a bit of tank in the end. As far as why flight a nighthawk or a cerb, it's an issue of preference. The nighthawk has VERY strong resists and does the cerb and both can yield impressive DPS for using cruiser class weapons. A Cerb will be able to outrange and in all likelyhood out gun a Drake in actual play (though it certainly won't be able to kill a decent drake by itself). And when it comes to the question of out tanking a drake, the issue is not as simple as, which absorbs more damage. The Drake as a passive tanker can tank near it's max DPS indefinitely no matter what you do to it. Other ships can out tank it for a limited time and that time can easily be cut down with nos/neuts. To be honest though, a ship would have to have some very impressive tanking going on to out tank the drake in terms of it's ability to absorb DPS if the drake is set up for it's absolute maximum tank (sacrificing mobility, firepower, and every dirty trick in the Eve universe while it's at it), given that the drake can easily top 300 DPS tank when you factor in it's resists.
E Vile Fifth Exiled Legion SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.11 15:49:00 - [16] Originally by: Derek Sigres I'd have to say that the Nighthawk in the real world can probably put out more DPS than the drake because of the above mentioned factors. Of course the drake is an odd duck in that for its most common tank setup (the much maligned passive tank) it generally sacrifices almost all of it's extra damage mods. Course, if you use Core Defense Purger rigs, you can sacrifice two of the low slot shield regen mods for BCS's, but you DO lose a bit of tank in the end. As far as why flight a nighthawk or a cerb, it's an issue of preference. The nighthawk has VERY strong resists and does the cerb and both can yield impressive DPS for using cruiser class weapons. A Cerb will be able to outrange and in all likelyhood out gun a Drake in actual play (though it certainly won't be able to kill a decent drake by itself). And when it comes to the question of out tanking a drake, the issue is not as simple as, which absorbs more damage. The Drake as a passive tanker can tank near it's max DPS indefinitely no matter what you do to it. Other ships can out tank it for a limited time and that time can easily be cut down with nos/neuts. To be honest though, a ship would have to have some very impressive tanking going on to out tank the drake in terms of it's ability to absorb DPS if the drake is set up for it's absolute maximum tank (sacrificing mobility, firepower, and every dirty trick in the Eve universe while it's at it), given that the drake can easily top 300 DPS tank when you factor in it's resists. Passive nighthawk > Passive drake in all areas I can fit a large booster on a cerb with a cap booster and a mwd. Has one helova boost goes about 1250m/s with sig under 200 with range of about 130k/m. Missles on cerb go about 7.5k Compair that to your raven and the raven is just not hitting the smaller ships like a cerb. It really depends on what you plan on wanting to kill more. For roaming gangs I like the cerb. It's quick compaired to the others. Best range, and versitility of what you can hit. For home defense and large fleets I like the nighthawk, or even a vulture for war links.
Augeas	Posted - 2007.12.11 16:22:00 - [17] Is there any point setting up a Drake or NH for max tank? Will these ships be primaried only when the fight is already lost - making that big tank a waste of slots?
AFTRUNX Human Liberty Syndicate TALIONIS ALLIANCE	Posted - 2007.12.11 16:30:00 - [18] Edited by: AFTRUNX on 11/12/2007 16:32:30 Edited by: AFTRUNX on 11/12/2007 16:30:41 active tank Nighthawk my one for PVE [Nighthawk, Nighthawk] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II Invulnerability Field II Photon Scattering Field II Large Shield Booster II Shield Boost Amplifier II Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge [empty high slot] Core Defence Field Purger I Core Defence Field Purger I 436DPS (EFT) decent tank with decent DPS... but not like a sleip or Astarte.. The Problem is that the ship bonus for the Command Ship skill do not affect to HAM's :/ AFT --------------------------------------------
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2007.12.11 16:41:00 - [19] Originally by: Augeas Is there any point setting up a Drake or NH for max tank? Will these ships be primaried only when the fight is already lost - making that big tank a waste of slots? I'd say not really. The Drake when fully tanked gives up it's basic ability to kill ships of similar class in terms of DPS and can't jam/scrable/paint or anything. In general, you can give up either 2 of your lows or 2 of your mids to damage mods/dirty tricks without utterly destroying the passive tank. But still, the Drake isn't going to go around and murder people terribly well. It DOES however swat heavy drones down pretty well and can really hurt cruisers or add some dps in a gang role. It seems to me that's where caldari fits pretty well - in the support role. There is a plus side to the drake though - it's generally regarded as a pain to kill because of it's uber passive tank, and since it isn't well known for it's ability to dish out the pain in massive quantities, you normally get ignored until all the battleships are gone. Thus it's really good to have on hand if you are using link warfare mods since the longer you're alive the better everyone else is going to be.
AnKahn Caldari Repo Industries	Posted - 2007.12.11 16:44:00 - [20] Thanks for the thoughtful replies. This thread is about Heavy missile damage. My question is about preferred heavy missile launching platforms. My apologies to the original poster if I have hijacked his thread. Maybe I'm trying to come up with the VALUE of slightly(?) more DPS or range or speed in actual PvP in light of the probability of losing 5 to 10 times more ISK if you lose the ship in any given engagement. Perfect example is a gang of around 10 ships, mostly tech one with a few command ships thrown in. When a similar sized gang is engaged one of your command ships is going down. In the time it takes to kill your command ship your gang kills two of your opponents tech one Battleships (maybe three). Did you win? (BTW your Drake pilots were sipping their drinks and dealing damage the whole fight plus putting on points.)
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2007.12.11 16:46:00 - [21] Originally by: Augeas Is there any point setting up a Drake or NH for max tank? Will these ships be primaried only when the fight is already lost - making that big tank a waste of slots? I'd say not really. The Drake when fully tanked gives up it's basic ability to kill ships of similar class in terms of DPS and can't jam/scrable/paint or anything. In general, you can give up either 2 of your lows or 2 of your mids to damage mods/dirty tricks without utterly destroying the passive tank. But still, the Drake isn't going to go around and murder people terribly well. It DOES however swat heavy drones down pretty well and can really hurt cruisers or add some dps in a gang role. It seems to me that's where caldari fits pretty well - in the support role. There is a plus side to the drake though - it's generally regarded as a pain to kill because of it's uber passive tank, and since it isn't well known for it's ability to dish out the pain in massive quantities, you normally get ignored until all the battleships are gone. Thus it's really good to have on hand if you are using link warfare mods since the longer you're alive the better everyone else is going to be.
J Valkor Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.12.11 16:51:00 - [22] Originally by: AnKahn Do the Cerb, NH, and Drake have similar DPS? For me, a Drake and Raven "specialist", if I want tank and less stress on ops I fly a Drake, if I want gank I fly the Raven. At some point in my skill training (after I level up my drone skills, Ewar and webbers and such) I will start to look at the tech II ships. Why fly the Cerb or the NH ? Are you able to out damage a Raven? Out tank (significantly) a Drake? Do both at the same time? Tackle? Nano? The question is would it be better to spend time cross training Gallente or Minnie rather than go for tech II Caldari? Would something like the Brutix be more fun? Losing a Drake costs, after insurance, maybe 10 mil. Losing a tech II ship I'm sure costs 100 mil. I was just wondering. A NH will out tank and out damage a Drake in most real EVE situations. If you compare Cruise Missiles to Heavies (and Raven versus Drake): CM - 300 dmg per missile, 17.60 ROF HM - 150 dmg per missile, 12.5 ROF The only bonus the NH has for simple DPS that the Raven does not is a 25% bonus to damage. This modifies the HMs a bit. All other skills effect both, so not much point imo. HM - 187.5, 12.5 Now simply divide CM - 17 DPS per launcher HM - 15 DPS per launcher 17/15 = 1.133 So the Raven does about 13% more damage. Except that, even before the NH's ability, the cruise missile already has more than double the sig radius of a heavy missile. So, against everything sub BC, the heavy hissile will tend to do more damage. Against faster moving targets, the heavies will do more damage. The Nighthawk will probably also be able to take a lot more pain than either the Raven or the Drake. Well, the Drake might be able to tank more with lows filled out with SPR's, but such a ship is only nifty until you realize that enough alpha strike makes regen rather worthless.
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2007.12.11 16:59:00 - [23] Originally by: J Valkor Originally by: AnKahn Do the Cerb, NH, and Drake have similar DPS? For me, a Drake and Raven "specialist", if I want tank and less stress on ops I fly a Drake, if I want gank I fly the Raven. At some point in my skill training (after I level up my drone skills, Ewar and webbers and such) I will start to look at the tech II ships. Why fly the Cerb or the NH ? Are you able to out damage a Raven? Out tank (significantly) a Drake? Do both at the same time? Tackle? Nano? The question is would it be better to spend time cross training Gallente or Minnie rather than go for tech II Caldari? Would something like the Brutix be more fun? Losing a Drake costs, after insurance, maybe 10 mil. Losing a tech II ship I'm sure costs 100 mil. I was just wondering. A NH will out tank and out damage a Drake in most real EVE situations. If you compare Cruise Missiles to Heavies (and Raven versus Drake): CM - 300 dmg per missile, 17.60 ROF HM - 150 dmg per missile, 12.5 ROF The only bonus the NH has for simple DPS that the Raven does not is a 25% bonus to damage. This modifies the HMs a bit. All other skills effect both, so not much point imo. HM - 187.5, 12.5 Now simply divide CM - 17 DPS per launcher HM - 15 DPS per launcher 17/15 = 1.133 So the Raven does about 13% more damage. Except that, even before the NH's ability, the cruise missile already has more than double the sig radius of a heavy missile. So, against everything sub BC, the heavy hissile will tend to do more damage. Against faster moving targets, the heavies will do more damage. The Nighthawk will probably also be able to take a lot more pain than either the Raven or the Drake. Well, the Drake might be able to tank more with lows filled out with SPR's, but such a ship is only nifty until you realize that enough alpha strike makes regen rather worthless. To be fair enough firepower makes every ship mod about worthless. But I tend to agree. As someone who has desperately tried to make drakes combat worthy (and someone who is NO good at PvP) I will be the first to admit that while you can make a ship that can survive just about anything it will be unable to kill almost everything. On the plus side, I think drakes are the best looking ships in the game.
AnKahn Caldari Repo Industries	Posted - 2007.12.11 20:19:00 - [24] Edited by: AnKahn on 11/12/2007 20:20:30 I think the fact that you can compare the NH, Cerb, and Drake is significant. I'm sure that perhaps the NH or the Cerb can solo, or do something the Drake cannot is worth the price of admission to many. The new killboard I am starting to get on shows total damage done by each ship (I'm sure it has to do with the combat log system vs. the killmail). It will take a few weeks but I'm sure we can discuss the relative damage the different ships do in actual EvE fights soon. So, to the OP I would say the 25% ROF bonus determines the winner. I say Heavy Missiles are what they are. For more damage move to Cruises or Torps (rocket science huh?). For even more damage move to guns with short range ammo. Edit: Oh yea, HAMs. I keep forgetting them.
Impolite Andevil The Shadow Knights Division of Eden	Posted - 2007.12.11 23:46:00 - [25] Originally by: AnKahn Do the Cerb, NH, and Drake have similar DPS? For me, a Drake and Raven "specialist", if I want tank and less stress on ops I fly a Drake, if I want gank I fly the Raven. At some point in my skill training (after I level up my drone skills, Ewar and webbers and such) I will start to look at the tech II ships. Why fly the Cerb or the NH ? Are you able to out damage a Raven? Out tank (significantly) a Drake? Do both at the same time? Tackle? Nano? The question is would it be better to spend time cross training Gallente or Minnie rather than go for tech II Caldari? Would something like the Brutix be more fun? Losing a Drake costs, after insurance, maybe 10 mil. Losing a tech II ship I'm sure costs 100 mil. I was just wondering. I fly all three. The Nighthawk has the best DPS and tank of the lot. No question. It's also the most skill intensive and either it or the cerb will be the most expensive to lose - depends on whether the cerb is faction fit (NH don't benefit much from faction fittings, straight t2 is very nice already). The cool thing about the NH is that it tanks, ganks, and completely rapes small ships all at the same time. The drake is the low sp heavy missle boat. It can tank or gank, but generally not both. Even set up to specialize in either tank or gank, the NH will be better at both. However, the drake is fully insurable, which makes it attractive for PvP. For PVE, run, do not walk, to the NH (or use a raven, which is about as fast as the NH in lev 4s, or a CNR, which is a fair bit faster). The cerb has the lowest raw DPS of the 3, but the missile velocity bonus and the fact that it is easily nano'd make it nice for PVP. That combo also makes it a very nice combo to run against nano ships. It's one of the few ships that a vaga or a sac will probably run away from. Don't use it for PVE. I've lost a couple faction-fit cerbs to PVE (old-style worlds collide both times). Use one of the others.
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2007.12.12 01:43:00 - [26] Originally by: Last Wolf Originally by: MalVortex In Descending Order: Nighthawk - Can also do more damage vs smaller targerts with heavies Drake - Its a drake. Cerberus - can spew HM out to ~150km. 250km with rigs. Sacrilege (damage bonus applies only to HAMS) This

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