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SiJira
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Posted - 2008.01.05 03:43:00 -
[91]
it needs to be said again that when you warp within a system you are going a speed of astronomical units and not light years and when you use jump gates you move faster than you need to know
Trashed sig, Shark was here |
Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2008.01.05 03:56:00 -
[92]
Edited by: Imperator Jora''h on 05/01/2008 04:02:32
 Originally by: LittleTerror
Do you really think there was this big bang and our entire existance resulted from this? How do they know it was a big bang, did they see it happen? No they didn't, the big bang theory is just that, a theory not a proven fact k.
*sigh*
People really need to learn what a theory is.
Tell you what, jump off a 10 story building and if you survive you can explain it away that gravity is just a theory and not fact.
Have someone run into you with a truck going 100 kilometers/hour and tell me about Newton's theory of motion.
Have someone spray you with the Ebola virus and then tell me you have nothing to worry about because germ theory is only a theory.
Almost everything save some (not all) mathematics is a "theory". Hell...you cannot even truly prove you exist.
But most of us allow that while you may not prove something to 100% certainty you can accept evidence sufficient for you to believe that the "something" is likely the case. For instance I have never been to Tokyo. As far as I know the whole place was made up as some obscure conspiracy. But in reality I accept the evidence I have been given which is rather overwhelming that it does exist.
So too with the Big Bang. It is not a matter of debate any longer that the galaxies are moving away from each other. Tomorrow the galaxies will be further from each other than they are today. So it follows that they were closer yesterday than they are today. Now keep extending that thought to its logical conclusion...if you go back far enough in time the galaxies keep getting closer and closer till they were all in one place. Now start your clock forward again and voila...Big Bang.
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Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2008.01.05 04:19:00 -
[93]
Edited by: Imperator Jora''h on 05/01/2008 04:22:39
Originally by: Il Il
Yes, the estimated age of the universe is approx. 13.7 billion Earth years.
Yeah...and? Not sure what your point is. Yes clocks can disagree due to relativistic motion (actually any motion but it is only really apparent at exceptionally high speeds). But for our purposes, stuck on earth, earth clocks is what we will go with (essentially we use clocks that share our frame of reference).
Quote:
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
So, the diameter of the Universe is about 27.4 billion light years.
Not necessarily so. It's been theorized and there is some minor evidence that the actual size of the universe is far larger-- that before the bigbang, all "matter" was in a super-dense formation, a 'proto-atom' or other names, that the 4 "powers" or forces (Gravity, Electricity, Strong, Weak) were combined and normal physics as we know them were nonexistant. At the time of the bigbang, all matter was flung outward, under the 'proto-physics' and traveled far faster than the speed of light (which could support that the universe really was formed over a short period of time).
This distance traveled would be much farther than what has been recorded... it's very hard to judge the true age or distance, and is judged more by residual heat (radiation) than mere light waves.
But it's safe to say that 27.4 billion LY is not far from the truth... it's an easier number to sleep with in the end instead of a ?.
You are describing the Inflationary Theory. Frankly the whole theory annoys me because it looks like it was made up to get some issues they didn't like to work right. But I am not an astronomer and they seem to like it and I am not trained enough in it to second guess them. Apparently it makes everything in their current cosmological models work wonderfully.
Just to be clear the inflationary period lasted mere minute fractions of a second post Big Bang (like 10^-33 seconds). I mention that in case this relates to your first point. The inflationary period was so fast it does not impinge on our estimate of the age of the universe even a little bit.
Quote:
Also, noting that the Milky Way is NOT the center of the universe, it puts even more obstacles to correctly judging the size and age of the universe.
Actually it is the center. It surprises people to find out that scientists know precisely where the center of the Universe is. It happens to be exactly where you are sitting (not kidding). It is where I am sitting too. It is at the sun. It is quite literally every point in the Universe.
Sound like a fudge? Not really. Consider that every point in the Universe today was, just prior to the Big Bang, all in the same place (literally). The Big Bang did not explode "into" space. Space itself exploded. Every point started moving away from every other point but at that very first moment they were all on top of each other and that is where it all went *foom*.
So, the next time someone tells you that you think you are the center of Everything you can tell them they are absolutely correct. 
There is another, unrelated way to argue that you are the center (as is any other place) which is cool but a bit harder to explain so I'll stop for now.
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Katjia
Minmatar
Shadows of Valor
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.01.05 07:02:00 -
[94]
Hehe i love it when people discuss the size of the unverse and then eventually go "oh noes it's expanding at an accelerated rate"...Here's the gist of it the universe is and is not expanding at a constant rate, ala schrodinger's cat. The expansion is the largest observable act of quantum mechanics and as a whole people are not able to make heads or tails of it.
personally i think chaos theory takes effect on this one and the speed of expansion is subject to one to many butterflies. Perhaps Eris wins yet again, once the scientific community decides to break from it's grid of what must be to what could be simply because it "is". Either way i don't know, i didn't do it.
The golden apple always prevails!!!!
note: that should get some pink dreads into this thread
I bought a computer with vista and all i got was a "smart" paperweight. |
LittleTerror
Caldari
Infinitus Odium
The Church.
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Posted - 2008.01.05 08:21:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
Edited by: Imperator Jora''h on 05/01/2008 04:02:32
Originally by: LittleTerror
Do you really think there was this big bang and our entire existance resulted from this? How do they know it was a big bang, did they see it happen? No they didn't, the big bang theory is just that, a theory not a proven fact k.
*sigh*
People really need to learn what a theory is.
Tell you what, jump off a 10 story building and if you survive you can explain it away that gravity is just a theory and not fact.
Have someone run into you with a truck going 100 kilometers/hour and tell me about Newton's theory of motion.
Have someone spray you with the Ebola virus and then tell me you have nothing to worry about because germ theory is only a theory.
Almost everything save some (not all) mathematics is a "theory". Hell...you cannot even truly prove you exist.
But most of us allow that while you may not prove something to 100% certainty you can accept evidence sufficient for you to believe that the "something" is likely the case. For instance I have never been to Tokyo. As far as I know the whole place was made up as some obscure conspiracy. But in reality I accept the evidence I have been given which is rather overwhelming that it does exist.
So too with the Big Bang. It is not a matter of debate any longer that the galaxies are moving away from each other. Tomorrow the galaxies will be further from each other than they are today. So it follows that they were closer yesterday than they are today. Now keep extending that thought to its logical conclusion...if you go back far enough in time the galaxies keep getting closer and closer till they were all in one place. Now start your clock forward again and voila...Big Bang.
Yeah well not everyone is willing to believe what others tell them, I think the big bang theory is a bit along the lines of, this whole universe was an accident and lifes a ***** and then you die and thats all folks. Typical human explaination of stuff we have no understanding about, maybe it was some fat man who sneezed billions and billions of years ago  They said the earth was flat and the moon was made out of cheese hundreds of years ago and people believed it. |
Myrania
Gallente
The Greater Goon
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.01.05 10:25:00 -
[96]
Quote:
but, does anybody here have a rough approximation of the size/diameter of EVE's Universe?
Maybe there is some information in the eve database on each of the star systems. *shrug* It might be worth looking into.
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Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.01.05 10:31:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Friera
Adunh, I just woke up but I think you did the calculations correctly. If I did mine correctly, that gives a cubic diameter (one side of the cube) of about 8.65 light years. The problem with your idea (correct me if I'm wrong) is that it doesn't take into account the distance between the jump gates connecting each system. Although, technically, I suppose that area isn't playable :-)
Quite true, what I mentioned does not take that into consideration at all, so much as a definition of the term "playable area". Another thing I do not account for is any possible overlap, which is also likely. Check out the numbers of 3.4E38 compared to the meters in a light year, there's lots of overlap. So perhaps, with some fudge and salt, the overlap can account for those long jumps. Pepper to taste.
The Real Space Initiative - V5 (Forum Link)
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Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2008.01.05 15:12:00 -
[98]
Edited by: Imperator Jora''h on 05/01/2008 15:12:38
Originally by: LittleTerror
Yeah well not everyone is willing to believe what others tell them, I think the big bang theory is a bit along the lines of, this whole universe was an accident and lifes a ***** and then you die and thats all folks. Typical human explaination of stuff we have no understanding about, maybe it was some fat man who sneezed billions and billions of years ago They said the earth was flat and the moon was made out of cheese hundreds of years ago and people believed it.
Now you are getting into philosophy and perhaps even theology. Interesting pursuits but you must be very clear not to confuse them with science. For instance you could posit an Intelligent Designer (aka God) but it is a wholly untestable proposition. Anytime you say "God" I could replace it with "Invisible Pink Unicorns" and while absurd it is just as "provable" as God in this discussion.
Certainly scientists ask these questions. When studying the origins of the Universe they ask, "Must it have been this way?" As it happens they do not like the answer. It seems the Universe could have started with countless starting configurations only a very few of which would be suitable to support life as we know it.
That leaves them to wonder if this is all the result of pulling the right configuration out of some staggering cosmic lottery. The chances are stupendously against "winning" this lottery (which is not to say it couldn't happen) so they look for reasons why it might have had to choose this configuration and none other. I am unsure on where they stand with that currently (read about it awhile back and I seem to recall Stephen Hawking saying the universe has little need of a God but I forget the details).
Nevertheless if you are interested in this discussion I'd start you off on the Anthropic Principle. Wrap your head around that and then have a go. Sorta grabs debate from all corners and wraps it all into a starting point for this discussion. Has kept scientists/philosophers/theologians busy for decades so far.
Note however that none of the above precludes or even casts into doubt the Big Bang. The science on that is pretty clear. I suppose you could say God just magiced the Universe into existence 10 minutes ago and made it look this way but that doesn't get you very far. More reasonably, I think, you could suppose God was the "First Cause" that initiated the Big Bang and set it so the Universe evolved as it has. Still not sure how far that gets you but I do not think Big Bang theory has anything to say about "before" the Big Bang (indeed there was no "before"...like saying what is north of the North Pole). For this reason it is a good place for theologians to play.
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LittleTerror
Caldari
Infinitus Odium
The Church.
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Posted - 2008.01.05 18:35:00 -
[99]
I've looked at many ideas of how the universe came into existance. I think people are too easly mislead and will accept whatever they are told and then never question it, also I think religion is a load of rubbish so cut the god crap please  Or at least go easy on it... I do believe there is a god but not the god the bible talks about or any god of any religion, there is too many similarities between all the religions, anyway its not the forum to talk about these things.
Its really up to people to makeup there own minds, there are no rules inforce in reality only the ones we make for ourselves, maybe that don't make sence but **** it |
Katjia
Minmatar
Shadows of Valor
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.01.05 21:06:00 -
[100]
little terror how would you like to be a pope? nice reply.....
I bought a computer with vista and all i got was a "smart" paperweight. |
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Spoon Thumb
Paladin Imperium
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Posted - 2008.01.05 21:29:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Ho HsienKo
There is no spoon!!!
Khaldari
khanidpublic: RP channel for Kingdom loyalists
Recruiting |
LittleTerror
Caldari
Infinitus Odium
The Church.
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Posted - 2008.01.05 22:38:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Katjia
little terror how would you like to be a pope? nice reply.....
Well I think I'd like it but I would most probably be killed, oh and it makes me laugh this pope that has so much faith in this god but he still drives around in a bullet proof car 
If people have faith in a religion and that works for them, then they should stick with it if it gives them some hope or goals etc, I really can't see any right or wrong, its just another way of thinking.
But if you do talk with god you're talking with you're self in a subconscious way and thats just my opinion but what do I know, all I know is I'm conscious meaning I am aware of being aware. This awareness can't be an accident and imo can't be destroyed, it will go on after my death and forever, so I hate this idea of a big bang and cosmic accident. |
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